CAP 19 CAP 19 - Part 9 - Attacking Movepool Discussion

[NumberCruncher]

Discharge: Disallow. Discharge could make it a viable threat in Double and Triple battles. The only well Discahage isn't good is that it can hit its allies to the side of it and unless you set it up so that's a problem that's negligible.

Completely irrelevant argument. We're designing for OU only, so how it does in other formats is unimportant.

Acid Spray: Allow. Low damage means not a lot of people would suspect Acid Spray to be used, only to discover too late that Acid Spray has a guaranteed secondary effect of lowering your opponent's Special Defense by 2 stages. Of course once they realize that they may try to get rid of it, but by that time CAP19 would have left its mark known unless the opponent switches out. In addition the opponent could think that the decrease in Special Defense is nothing major as long as their Pokemon is faster and hits like a truck, thus would only care about the low damage which isn't that much to worry about. I say it goes along with the concept.

We aren't adding moves to be beginners traps. Beginners traps that crush advanced players and even trump people who completely expected them are even worse.

Fighting Moves:
Focus Blast falls in line with my thinking for Thunder, but even more so since it doesn't get STAB.
Rock Smash falls in line with my thinking of Acid Spray, but even more so since it doesn't get STAB, is off CAP19's Attack stat, and lowers Defense by 1 stage. Your opponent will think it's barely doing anything thus leave it alone, but slowly and surely you're weakening their active Pokemon letting your Pokemon waiting to come out have an easier time knocking them out.
Counter will make anyone double think about attacking it, thus allowing it to stay out longer letting it do what it needs to do.

Why would anybody use Rock Smash on CAP? Our Physical Attack is garbage. Even assuming it drops your opponent's defense 2 stages (which it won't, because it only does it occasionally, but let's say it does), you still aren't going to be doing damage with your Physical Attacks, because your Attack stat is worse than Gengar's.

Ground Moves:
Mud-Slap/Mud Shot/Mud Bomb have Acid Spray logic. I'm hesitant to put Earth Power on there as its decent Power and 100% accuracy means the opponent may want to get rid of it if they have Pokemon weak to Ground-types.
Sand Tomb is a sneaky way or wearing down the opponent's Pokemon while doing little damage. They won't think CAP19 is a threat only to discover their Pokemon are being set up to be knocked down.
Dig can help deceive the opponent making them think that there's no reason to attack CAP19. It's spending a turn doing nothing and when it attacks its doing low damage. However Dig could provide CAP19 some protection as its invulnerable while underground except to Earthquake and Magnitude (which would have knocked it out anyway).
Bulldoze works with Acid Spray logic, moreso since its a Physical move.

Mud-Slap and Mud Bomb should absolutely not be on CAP. We have Evasion Clause for a reason. Mud Shot hurts too many Pokemon we want to get countered by.
Sand Tomb is actually an interesting alternative to the Whirlpool we were discussing earlier, but a strictly inferior one. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to bring this to a vote.
Dig is an absolute no-go. It gives Modest Gardevoir a chance to switch in kill CAP when it pops up from the ground. We're already on shaky ground (see what I did there) having Timid Gardevoir putting us at risk, we don't need to lose to non-committal Gardevoirs.
Bulldoze is an interesting move, I suppose it could work, but it really wouldn't fall into attacking move at that point, since our Physical Attacks really don't do much damage.

Bug Moves:
Struggle Bug has Acid Spray logic. Bug Buzz/Signal Beam has Earth Power problems.
Infestation has Sand Tomb logic.
Twineedle has Acid Spray logic.
Leech Life not only does little damage but also has minor healing potential. Opponent may not give CAP19 a second glance meaning it can slowly lower the opponent's HP while gaining small bits itself, building up over time.
Fury Cutter could be a decisive move. Your opponent thinks its doing small damage but over time CAP19 is doing more and more damage. Sure even at max it isn't a lot, but you'll only start doing this once you did what you basically wanted CAP19 to do and there's nothing else for it to do other than attack.
Bug Bite: Low damage but now your opponent is missing their Berry.
Steamroller has Acid Spray logic since it is fast enough to possibly Flinch a few Pokemon.

Oh gosh, Struggle Bug. I forgot that was a thing. so what we seem to be getting at is that you want CAP to not only destroy every Pokemon in format, but also take away their ability to retaliate. At this point, we've gone from "Pokemon that dissuades the opponent from killing it" to "Pokemon that the opponent could never hope to kill without a Ground type and possibly a back-up Ground type". I'd like to make a movement that Struggle Bug be banned as a move for CAP.
Infestation is interesting, but we're already discussing two moves that do the exact same thing.
Twineedle and Fury Cutter are already horrible moves for a Physical Attacker. We aren't a Physical Attacker. Why would we want these moves?
252 Atk CAP Leech Life vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 50-60 (19.8 - 23.8%) -- possible 5HKO
So in summary, the maximum Leech Life will ever heal you for is 30 Health, which is less than what we get from Black Sludge.
I'm not sure what you're trying to counter with Bug Bite. Nothing you're good against uses Berries. There are Special moves that drop speed as well, so I don't get what we're gaining from Steamroller specifically.

Dark Moves:
Dark Pulse has Earth Power problems.
Snarl has Acid Spray logic.
Thief/Knock Off has Bug Bite logic, except with any item the opponent is holding.
Sucker Punch may make the opponent think twice before attacking, especially if their Pokemon is low on HP.
Pursuit: With low Power it may knock out a retreating opponent (thus your opponent isn't worried about retreating), but it'll still hurt them a bit for the next time they come back out.
Fling is a one trick pony, but can be a useful one. It'll always do low damage, but depending on the item it can cripple the opponent. And once done, the opponent will think CAP19 has nothing left so won't bother with it.
Bite has Steamroller logic.

Again, a bunch of Physical moves it doesn't benefit from having, coupled with a hideously broken Snarl. Snarl should also be banned as a move this Pokemon can have.

At this point, I can see there's no point in continuing if he's only going to recommend Physical attacks and fundamentally anti-concept attacks.

 

[Burt Racecar]

There is no way of funneling which kind of Hidden Power the user will choose. The loss of one speed IV is completely negligible in regards to HP fire - the tie with Mega-Gardevoir is, in my opinion, not worth considering as a reason to push something such as incinerate through.
HP ice is always going to be the 'go to' Hidden Power the majority of the time, but it would be nice to force people into choosing either Fire or Ice.

If HP Fire is chosen, Sludge Wave should still deal enough damage to the ground types that use set up moves CAP wouldn't become set up bait.
252+ SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 143-168 (40 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 149-177 (46.7 - 55.4%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO
and we break Gliscor's Sub all day, even the specially defensive variant:
252+ SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 103-121 (29.2 - 34.3%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

I'm inclined to suggest we disallow: Ice and Fire coverage, outside of Hidden Power.

The other main thing I want to say at this point is, we should allow psychic coverage. It doesn't mess with anything on the threatlist beside Keldeo, which is already at a huge disadvantage against CAP.

 

[HeaLnDeaL]

If HP Fire is chosen, Sludge Wave should still deal enough damage to the ground types that use set up moves CAP wouldn't become set up bait.
252+ SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Garchomp: 143-168 (40 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Landorus: 149-177 (46.7 - 55.4%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO
and we break Gliscor's Sub all day, even the specially defensive variant:
252+ SpA Life Orb Eelektross Sludge Wave vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 103-121 (29.2 - 34.3%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Poison Heal

Your calcs are somewhat bloated in the respect that you gave CAP19 a modest nature, and you made Garchomp and Landorus naive. You say you think sludge wave can prevent these mons from setting up, but I just don't think that's the case. However, this does suggest a greater need for HP Ice than Fire, like you mentioned... In the end, a lot of these ground types are on the list of things we want to counter CAP19, so I agree that CAP19 doesn't need ice coverage outside of HP Ice. However, the things on our list that an additional Incinerate would be bad for are pretty much limited to only Excadrill.

 

[DetroitLolcat]

First and foremost, I want to oppose U-Turn and Volt Switch as adamantly as I can. We're not Mega Gyarados' Perfect Mate; we're supposed to use CAP19's free KO turn to bring in Gyarados. U-Turn and Volt Switch make us a hit-and-run attacker when the concept is to eliminate the "run" aspect of hit-and-run attacking. If we give CAP19 U-Turn or Volt Switch, we will still be able to lure in Pokemon for Mega Gyarados to set up against. However, we make it impossible to sacrifice ourselves to bring in our sweeper. They're the ultimate cop-out moves. U-Turn and Volt Switch, especially the latter, will make CAP19 a better Pokemon in the sense that it will be more viable in the OU metagame. They will also make it nearly impossible to accomplish our concept. Disallow U-Turn and Volt Switch.

Discharge, however, is great for this Pokemon. While I'm not sure if it will see that much use on CAP19 compared to Thunderbolt, it's a good move for CAP19 to have in its repertoire. Scarfed Ground-types don't fear Discharge and can still dispatch of CAP19 with Earthquake (at their own risk!), while Pokemon like Mega Charizard X and Mega Tyranitar will not want to set up against CAP19 out of fear of paralysis. Paralyzed enemies will still want to KO CAP19, but they're also easier to set up against with Mega Gyarados. Discharge, and any other paralysis-inducing moves, are good for the concept. Allow Discharge.

I agree with disallowing Fire > 60. There are ways to make Ferrothorn setup bait for Mega Gyarados, so we don't need to outright knock it out. If you really want to crush Ferrothorn, then sacrifice HP Ice.

 

[alexwolf]

If we don't have HP Ice, Garchomp and Landorus are free to set up on CAP, therefore disallowing Gyarados to set up on them. We need to threaten them so they will be forced to attack us, therefore we can't run HP Fire. HP Fire also lowers your Speed IV so you lose to Mega Gardevoir. Therefore, if we do not want more than 60 Base Power, we should use Incinerate so we don't lose to Mega Gardevoir and we can keep HP Ice. Even then, I like Flamethrower better so we can beat Amoonguss more easily, getting a clean 2HKO on it, while Incinerate only gets a 3HKO on it. Incinerate doesn't even OHKO Ferrothorn, even with a Life Orb, it only has a 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock.

I'll add more later, just my two cents on Fire coverage

We don't need to beat Amoonguss more easily, it's 3HKOed by Modest Sludge Wave and can't do anything back after sleep clause has been activated. Also, HP Ice is not the only way to prevent offensive Ground-types from switching in freely, neutral moves with a good BP can do plenty to them, such as Psychic and Hurricane.

I am going to allow Psychic coverage, because it helps deal with Pokemon such as Amoonguss and Mega Venusaaur, and gives a way to the CAP to do some meaningful damage to most Ground-types even if it doesn't go with HP Ice, so that it's not too one sided and can have some variety on its movest. Psychic coverage doesn't really threaten anything in our checks and counters list, so i don't see any good reason not to allow them.

Also, i am going to disallow any Fire coverage. Even Incinerate 2HKOes Ferrothorn, Magnezone, and Excadrill from a max SpA CAP, and as some guys already mentioned, we want to give some incentive to the CAP to not always go with HP Ice, so that Ground-types can be somewhat more reliable checks. And if we want to do that, we must forfeit any kind of Fire coverage.

Bug coverage is allowed. Bug coverage helps against Latios and Latias, which is good, because otherwise they are pretty good checks to the CAP, being able to switch into its STABs and OHKO it back, and doesn't mess with any of our checks and counters. In addition, Bug coverage helps against Mega Tyranitar, a troubling threat to our core if it sets up, which is a good thing.

Fighting coverage over 60 BP is disallowed because it murders Tyranitar, Excadrill, and Ferrothorn, and therefore not only hinders one of our check's (Excadrill) ability to deal with the CAP, but also means that the CAP has no reason not to use Hidden Power Ice, as HP Ice + Fighting move give coverage against almost anything the CAP would want to, outside of dedicated special walls.

Rock coverage is allowed because it helps deal with potentially problematic Pokemon for both the CAP and Gyarados, such as Dragonite, Kyurem-B, and Mega Charizard X, and doesn't mess our checks and counters list.

U-turn is disallowed because it gives an easy way out of Ground-types, the Pokemon we are supposed to draw in for Gyarados to take advantage of.

Discharge and Thunder are allowed because neither the power nor the paralyze chance mess with our checks and counters list or have any negative implication.

Acid Spray is disallowed because it makes slower Ground-types unable to check the CAP anymore, as Acid Spray + neutral coverage move with 90 BP (Psychic, Bug Buzz) OHKOes most of them.

I want to see more discussion about Volt Switch, Whirlpool, Hurricane, and Ground coverage, as those moves seem to have both pros and cons for the CAP. Whirlpool could help lure and eliminate bulky Grass-types for Gyarados, but could be dangerous for our checks and counters if coupled with Perish Song. Ground coverage helps prevent Mega Tyranitar from setting up and doesn't fuck up Ferrothorn, but it fucks up Excadrill, Hurricane pairs nicely with Thunder under rain and helps against Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss, but has the potential to 2HKO slower Ground-types, and Volt Switch gives overall utility but allows the CAP to take the easy way out of checks and counters that are not Ground-types, and goes against the concept's idea of making the best out of a bad situation (the CAP's death).

 

[YellowAdminSilver]

Something else that I believe merits some discussion are speed-reducing attacks, which I'm not completely sure if they're non-damaging moves. Icy Wind technically isn't >60BP Ice coverage but does 2HKO Landorus on the switch and frees up HP Fire for coverage. It does fail to 2HKO Excadrill, but overall the speed drop should qualify it as a 110 BP move.
Rock Tomb and Electroweb should be fair game tho, imo. Rock Tomb is already resisted by pretty much our whole threatlist, and it comes off our horrendous Atk stat. It even fails to OHKO Talonflame which is pretty pathetic. Electroweb is similar in that 80% of our threatlist is immune, further encouraging the opponent to KO us with a Ground-type in order to avoid getting hit on the switch and potentially crippled (at least for a turn).
One thing these moves do accomplish, especially Electroweb, is that they allow us to discourage some of CAP's more offensive counters from switching in and KOing both CAP and MGyara, such as Latios (yes, I'm a bit of a Latios fan) and Terrakion.
Edit: Just saw the updated list. If Fighting coverage is still allowed under 60BP, I assume Vacuum Wave is fair game as well?

 

[jas61292]

I would like to add another voice to the "Disallow Volt Switch" camp. As cool a move as it is, and as much as it might be nice for a Gyarados partner, we need to stay focused on our goal here: discouraging the opponent from KOing us. This is being done by providing situations where CAP19's KO causes good setup opportunities for Gyarados. But, that is dependent on the way that CAP19 plays. Just because it can work well with Gyarados does not mean the player of it will necessarily put it into position to allow the Gyarados set up, if there is another way. We have to remember that Intimidate lets Gyarados set up much easier than other Pokemon. It is not exactly lacking for opportunities. While CAP19 might be able to provide a better opportunity than normal, if it can provide some other utility that is more valuable than the more reliable set up opportunity, players will go with that. That is what Volt Switch provides. A very easily spammable move that literally takes away a massive chunk of the opportunities where losing to a check or counter is supposed to support the concept. This is not to say that Volt Switch removes all those Pokemon as checks or counters. Only that it makes it so that the player gets better utility from Volt Switch than from allowing the KO. As such, it similarly takes away the incentive for the opponent not to KO CAP19.

On a different note, I would also like to suggest that we disallow ground type coverage. Looking at the list of things we want to check and be checked by (quoted in Deck Knights post), the only thing we really care about hitting that ground is good for is Mega Manectric, who not only was listed as a lesser concern, but also is not exactly bulky and can be hit very hard with just our STAB Poison moves. On the other hand, Ground hits a good handful of things that we want to consider being checked by. While obviously we don't have to be checked by everything on that list, there isn't really a good reason to bother with Ground coverage for what we want to do, so I just think it is best to stay away from it.

 

[alexwolf]

Forget about Whirlpool guys, we will be discussing it in the non attacking moves thread, a more appropriate place for it.

 

[OverlordDerp]

Forget about Whirlpool guys, we will be discussing it in the non attacking moves thread, a more appropriate place for it.

Dangit, and I was just about to say something about it too. Still, we have a lot more discussion to complete.

Something that wasn't mentioned in alexwolf's post was Ground coverage. I would suggest Earthquake, and disallow Earth Power.

4 Atk Life Orb CAP19 Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 179-213 (49.5 - 59%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO. This was prior mentioned in Eragon2's post. This makes sure that even with the dearth of Fighting moves, we still have something to surprise reckless switch-ins, at the cost of coverage against a fair amount of other threats. For example, running EQ may make you sweep bait for a Latios with Earthquake if you forgo Bug coverage, which M-Gyara can't deal with too well either.

I am a very big proponent of Hurricane. It gives us a rain team niche on top of handily defeating Grass-types like M-Venu and Amoonguss, while also failing to 2HKO a lot of our counters, such as Scarf Exca and Ferrothorn. Hurricane + Thunder is also terrifying under rain.

For Rock coverage, I say allow Power Gem and maybe Stone Edge, disallow Ancient Power. A single all-stat boost from Ancient Power is unlikely, but makes CAP 19 stupidly hard to deal with outside of Scarfed EQ users. Stone Edge I don't really know about, but Power Gem seems naturally apropos for taking out Zard-X.

And straight up, no Volt Switch. Entirely too much momentum gained from it, and becomes generically good instead of adhering to the concept.

 

[ginganinja]

Synchronoise is a very quirky move and I wouldn't mind seeing it come up for discussion.

I'm sorry but this is a competitive moves discussion.

EDIT

It has come to my attention that people are currently submitting niche or "gimmicky" moves. Yes, as this is called "Create a Pokemon" we have some leeway in what we can give this CAP in terms of movepool, but please don't lose your heads and suggest really terrible moves. I know everyone is hyped about the possibility of Big Root Parabolic Charge healing 30% of this CAPs HP, but stop and think about why some of these niche moves don't see use...and then ask yourself if said move is something that really has a place on this CAP. Remember, you get 4 move slots on this thing, so I don't see a point supporting moves that are just outclassed.

 

[Empress]

Okay, first time ever participating in a movepool discussion. Let's see what's on the table for us now.

Volt Switch: Okay, I'm somewhat on the fence for this one.
Arguments for:

• Allows us to pivot, and possibly grant a free switch for Mega Gyara
• Can be blocked by the Ground-types we want to threaten us

Arguments against:

• Goes against the concept by not forcing CAP 19 to faint
• Is "generically good"
• Because of our speed, we may not always bring in Gyarados safely

Well, not too many arguments on either side, but both have their merits. As useful as I believe it could be, I have to say that staying pro-concept is more important. What's more, we don't want to mess with our non-Ground checks and counters, and we won't always get the free switch for Gyarados, unless we want to run a bulky spread. As this would skew our stat spreads and mess with what we don't want, I believe we should Disallow Volt Switch.

Ground moves: The main arguments here are to hit Ferrothorn without using Hidden Power and to prevent Mega Tyranitar from setting up. Even so, the damage output here isn't all that powerful.
252 SpA CAP Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 112-134 (32.8 - 39.2%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO
However, we do hit Mega Manectric SE, and the occasional Sand/Scarf Excadrill fucks us up as well. If we go the Air Balloon route, then killing Scarf/Sand Exca is possible, and doing so is actually more pro- than anti-concept imo, as Mega Gyara has difficulty with both. Though the ability to kill regular Excadrill can be a little iffy, I believe that Ground coverage is nearly harmless otherwise, so I would say Allow.

Flying coverage: We don't want Hurricane. Not only can it potentially dent the Ground-types that we want to lose to, such as Gliscor, but it gives the CAP a new niche as a rain sweeper, which is a direction that I think we decided that we do not want to go. It may dent Mega Venusaur and Amoonguss, but it is anti-concept everywhere else. Air Slash, on the other hand, is relatively harmless, as it's redundant for hitting the aforementioned Grass-types if we are to allow Psychic coverage. So: Disallow Hurricane, Allow Air Slash.

 

[Blitzkreig54]

Volt Switch, I think is just too far away from CAP19's concept to be allowed. It makes CAP19 into more of an offensive pivot than the KO dissuader we're going for. Disallow.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Ground Coverage: I honestly didn't expect to say this, but I have to say Allow Ground Coverage. I feel like pretty much all of Excadrill's sets can still take us out rather easily. Air Balloon Rapid Spin doesn't really care about getting hit by Ground coverage, Sand Rush and Choice Scarf outspeed and OHKO us, and Assault Vest does win 1v1, although with the latter we should still be careful with since it's not going to want to switch in. It's also a helpful weapon against Ferrothorn and it does stop Mega Tyranitar from setting up.

Flying Coverage: No thank you! Not only does this make us incredibly good on a rain team, but it also literally has no point. We have Psychic to deal with Mega Venusaur and Amoongus, so what is the point of using the inferior Air Slash here? I really don't see the point. Disallow Flying Coverage

Edit: I forgot we allowed Bug Coverage, which does the exact same thing for us as Earth Power, a Bug Buzz will just serve the same purpose of stopping Tyranitar from setting up while dealing decent damage to Ferrothorn, also without the risk of hurting Excadrill, so yeah I'm changing my stance to Disallow Ground Coverage

 

[Base Speed]

I've been thinking over the pros and cons of Volt Switch all day. Initially, it really troubled me. I found myself thinking "If CAP19 can either outpace a pokemon, or stomach a hit from it, and subsequently Volt Switch out, that pokemon isn't really a threat of ours any more" and thus was fearful that Volt Switch would really whittle down our checks and counters list.

But if you actually look at the list, there aren't many 'mons that CAP19 can do this to. Obviously Volt Switch can't touch Ground types, Choiced Fire types will be able to outpace and put a decent dent in CAP19, and Dragon Dance Dragonite will only be troubled if it hasn't already boosted. However, Scizor, does find itself outpaced, and if Keldeo, Greninja and Starmie can't kill us, we can happily use Volt Switch on them.

The thing is, with our huge SpA and STAB electric moves, if Starmie, Greninja and Keldeo can't OHKO us, it doesn't matter whether we have Volt Switch or not, because we can annihilate them regardless. Same goes for Scizor if we run HP Fire. If a so called "threat" would be troubled by Volt Switch, we've already lost it as a threat even if we don't give CAP19 Volt Switch.

If we're not losing any more threats by giving CAP19 Volt Switch, and we can increase the specificity of Ground types as counters, then we're improving CAP19 by giving it Volt Switch, surely? Thus, I conclude that we should allow Volt Switch.

 

[alexwolf]

Here's one thing i have been wondering about: should we allow physical moves from the disallowed types? If they are very niche (which they will be, given our pathetic Atk) and they don't have any cons, their extra flavor would be very appreciated. I know that we are not supposed to care about flavor at those stages, but if there is no drawback in having those moves i think flavor is a good reason for allowing them. So, i would like to see some discussion about which physical moves we should allow, meaning of what type and BP? Backed up with calcs and good reasoning of course.

And to be clear, here are some physical moves that will remain disallowed and don't need any discussion:

• Icicle Crash
• Flare Blitz
• Blaze Kick
  
• Wood Hammer
• Close Combat
• Superpower
• Hammer Arm
• Cross Chop

 

[alexwolf]

Ok, closing time.

Volt Switch has been disallowed because it gives an way an easy way out of many of the CAP's checks and counters and therefore makes the chance of putting the opponent into a lose/lose situation by KOing the CAP smaller.

Ground coverage over 60 BP has been disallowed because it messes with Excadrill and provides nothing positive that other allowed moves don't.

Hurricane has been disallowed because it encourages Politoed as a partner instead of Gyarados, and allows the CAP to 2HKO a lot of the slower Ground-types without the need to run HP Ice. All the other Flying moves are allowed, because they are of the most part outclassed by Psychic, so no harm in allowing them.

All the pending moves have been allowed because i haven't seen any good reason to disallow them.

All the physical Fire, Ice, Water, Ground, Grass, and Fighting moves outside of Earthquake, Icicle Crash, Flare Blitz, Blaze Kick, Wood Hammer, Close Combat, Superpower, Hammer Arm, and Cross Chop are allowed.

And that should be it guys, see you on the NAM thread, thank you for the participation!