Almost Any Ability ORAS

[Fossil_Maniac_27]

While I don't deny that Keldeo is extremely powerful, it's not true that you *must* use Water Absorb/Storm Drain mons that have no other niche other than countering Keldeo, since Drought exists. Something like Drought Celebi or Venusaur can be used to counter Keldeo while supporting the rest of the team.

I'm pretty sure some keldeo run drizzle, so they can just just switch into those. Also tinted lens can still hit them both with secret sword.

 

[Grim]

While I don't deny that Keldeo is extremely powerful, it's not true that you *must* use Water Absorb/Storm Drain mons that have no other niche other than countering Keldeo, since Drought exists. Something like Drought Celebi or Venusaur can be used to counter Keldeo while supporting the rest of the team.

I would use a Water Absorb/Storm Drain Pokemon with no other niche than countering some Keldeo variants over a Drought Celebi/Venusaur with no other niche than countering some Keldeo variants anyday. Drought gives team support yeah, but why would you use Drought Celebi/Venusaur instead of a better Drought Pokemon? That's right, Keldeo. You're still using something with no other niche than countering one Pokemon.

 

[Uselesscrab]

I would use a Water Absorb/Storm Drain Pokemon with no other niche than countering some Keldeo variants

These also have the advantage of checking/countering Suicune.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

These also have the advantage of checking/countering Suicune.

Suicunes aren't a problem as most variants lack coverage.

 

[Uselesscrab]

Suicunes aren't a problem as most variants lack coverage.

I know, that's why it's good to have Water Absorb or Storm Drain. (in my opinion, that is)

 

[xJownage]

While I don't deny that Keldeo is extremely powerful, it's not true that you *must* use Water Absorb/Storm Drain mons that have no other niche other than countering Keldeo, since Drought exists. Something like Drought Celebi or Venusaur can be used to counter Keldeo while supporting the rest of the team.

Are you saying limiting your team to a partially sun-based archetype does not represent how overcentralizing keldeo is?

 

[Pikachuun]

While I don't deny that Keldeo is extremely powerful, it's not true that you *must* use Water Absorb/Storm Drain mons that have no other niche other than countering Keldeo, since Drought exists. Something like Drought Celebi or Venusaur can be used to counter Keldeo while supporting the rest of the team.

Drought Celebi and Venusaur are not that good though? Unaware Celebi is good, and you could just run Mega-Venusaur.

 

[QueenOfHax]

I would use a Water Absorb/Storm Drain Pokemon with no other niche than countering some Keldeo variants over a Drought Celebi/Venusaur with no other niche than countering some Keldeo variants anyday. Drought gives team support yeah, but why would you use Drought Celebi/Venusaur instead of a better Drought Pokemon? That's right, Keldeo. You're still using something with no other niche than countering one Pokemon.

Drought Celebi gets no-charge STAB Solarbeam and improved HP Fire, while Venusaur gets those and improved Synthesis to boot. It's not like you're switching grass type into a fire type anyway, so the extra fire damage barely matters.

 

[Grim]

Drought Celebi gets no-charge STAB Solarbeam and improved HP Fire, while Venusaur gets those and improved Synthesis to boot.

No charge Solar Beam is nice, but is it really worth the double weakness and the opportunity cost? HP Fire is not really good, because most things that you would want to hit with HP Fire, like Scizor and Ferrothorn, use Flash Fire (or Drizzle, ruining your sun). I know that Venusaur gets an improved Synthetis, but is it worth the lack of a mega?

Btw:
252 SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 113-133 (31 - 36.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 168-198 (46.1 - 54.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Celebi: 150-176 (37.1 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Not the greatest counters. There's Drizzle Keldeo too, who can just switch in and wreck.

It's not like you're switching grass type into a fire type anyway, so the extra fire damage barely matters.

That sounds nice in theory, but there are times when you can't avoid getting hit by a fire attack.

Celebi gets Synthetis too btw.

 

[asterat]

Keldeo is now banned.

 

[yikes]

YES

 

[Pikachuun]

Keldeo is now banned.

Rip in pepperonis my team I didn't steal from Lance

 

[Mr155551]

finally

 

[urdrakonis]

What really makes me salty is levitate / flash fire / water absorb mind games gdi. I swear I freakin get caught out by that shit all the time. I know I've been playing AAA long enough to expect these sets but still, nothing pisses me off more in pkmn than this.

end salty rant

I miss Ability Exchange...

 

[Grim]

Random Levitate / Flash Fire / Water Absorb mons should be a thing.

 

[aesf]

With both protean and Keldeo gone, sun looks to be stronger than ever. And although both Heatran and Victini are basically on every sun team, I think this third thing deserves mention as well:

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- ExtremeSpeed
- Bulldoze

All you need to do is spam sacred fire in sun, and all stall pretty much dies painfully. There really isn't much to be said; Sacred Fire's 50% burn chance and 100 BP pretty much secure kills on almost everything barring flash fire mons. Then tinted lens is just the icing on the cake.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune in Sun: 240-284 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia in Sun: 253-298 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 490-577 (76.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sun: 237-280 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming no intimidate)

Oh, and here's a replay showcasing its power:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-170043767

 

[TheCommadore]

With both protean and Keldeo gone, sun looks to be stronger than ever. And although both Heatran and Victini are basically on every sun team, I think this third thing deserves mention as well:

Entei @ Choice Band
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Stone Edge
- ExtremeSpeed
- Bulldoze

All you need to do is spam sacred fire in sun, and all stall pretty much dies painfully. There really isn't much to be said; Sacred Fire's 50% burn chance and 100 BP pretty much secure kills on almost everything barring flash fire mons. Then tinted lens is just the icing on the cake.

252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune in Sun: 240-284 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 152+ Def Cresselia in Sun: 253-298 (56.9 - 67.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey in Sun: 490-577 (76.3 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Sacred Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sun: 237-280 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (assuming no intimidate)

Oh, and here's a replay showcasing its power:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-170043767

That replay make me really glad that I still run flash fire skarm.

 

[aesf]

That replay make me really glad that I still run flash fire skarm.

Well, that's great, because I run a spinner with magnet pull designed to beat FF skarm and FF bisharp :D

 

[Illusio]

When ORAS comes out, will the two new weather abilities be banned?

 

[Pagoose]

When ORAS comes out, will the two new weather abilities be banned?

Unlikely, as they disappear once the pokemon switches out.

 

[Main_Shao]

Sry for my bad english :c

SF Shaymin is pretty cool in this Meta. SF LO STAB Seed Flare is extremly powerful and OHKOs nearly every sweeper that don`t resist it. After Staraptor/Braviary/Honchkrow is dead (which is easy), SKymin destroys offensive with amazing and powerful coverage. In Stallteams, Chansey is the only thing that counters it.

Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 SpA/ 252 Spe/ 4 Def
Timid Nature
- Seed Flare
- Air Slash
- Earth Power
- Psychic/HP Rock/HP Ice/HP Fire


252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 556-658 (137.6 - 162.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 398-471 (107.2 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-S: 341-402 (112.1 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Deoxys-D: 208-246 (68.4 - 80.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 421-497 (126 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Earth Power vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Mega Mawile: 328-387 (119.7 - 141.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Another cool Ability for Skymin could be Tinted Lens. With Tinted Lens, you can freely spam Specs Seed Flare, which is extremly powerful.

252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Shaymin-S Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 230-272 (68.8 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Staraptor: 420-494 (135 - 158.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tinted Lens Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 352-414 (94.8 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO

 

[motherlove]

Ur, great, another LO + sheer force post.

"After Staraptor/Braviary/Honchkrow is dead (which is easy)" yeah because every good player will say, oh shaymin s destroys my team, I'll just let my staraptor die. From my experience while using ph keldeo. Everybody kept his gale wing user until keldeo was dead.

" In Stallteams, Chansey is the only thing that counters it." Snorlax can switch in, take 2 seed flare and ohko. Goodra, zapdos, levitran and skarmory too. And since most skarmory run either flash fire, gale wing or intimidate. 2 times out of 3 shaymin loses the battle.

"252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 421-497 (126 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO" bisharp ohkoe's with sucker punch so that's really irrelevant.

"252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-S: 341-402 (112.1 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO" deoS invests to outspeed up to base 135 speed, so that's quite irrelevant too, unless you switch your deoxys in wich is stupid.

"252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 398-471 (107.2 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO" If by chance he doesn't have refrigirate like 99% of entei's I encoutered.

Again on offense, 1v1 vs thundurus,dragonite or even tornadus and skymin loses. Not to forget popular scarfs that can take an attack from skymin like victini or genesect.

And that also does mean you need to spam seed miss. And give up that nice Sdef lowering.

Shaymin has some better sets, tinted lens being one of them.

Pls stop making lo+sheer force posts, everybody pretty much figured this out already. Maybe you could have just said "shaymin is a good user of lo+sheer force." that would have been enaugh.

 

[Main_Shao]

Ur, great, another LO + sheer force post.

"After Staraptor/Braviary/Honchkrow is dead (which is easy)" yeah because every good player will say, oh shaymin s destroys my team, I'll just let my staraptor die. From my experience while using ph keldeo. Everybody kept his gale wing user until keldeo was dead.

In nearly every battle, i can check Staraptor with my Bisharp (there always keep in because CC or something else, i get a guaranteed OHKO on Staraptor and a possible OHKO on Braviary with Sucker Punch)

" In Stallteams, Chansey is the only thing that counters it." Snorlax can switch in, take 2 seed flare and ohko. Goodra, zapdos, levitran and skarmory too. And since most skarmory run either flash fire, gale wing or intimidate. 2 times out of 3 shaymin loses the battle.

Ok, youre right, im not often battle against Stall Teams :c

"252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 421-497 (126 - 148.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO" bisharp ohkoe's with sucker punch so that's really irrelevant.

Many People switch Bisharp in Skymin on 1300.

"252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Deoxys-S: 341-402 (112.1 - 132.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO" deoS invests to outspeed up to base 135 speed, so that's quite irrelevant too, unless you switch your deoxys in wich is stupid.

The most Deoxys i battled against used SR on first turn.

"252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Shaymin-S Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 398-471 (107.2 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO" If by chance he doesn't have refrigirate like 99% of entei's I encoutered.

I never saw an Refrigerate Entei, only things like Serene Grace and tinted lens.

Again on offense, 1v1 vs thundurus,dragonite or even tornadus and skymin loses. Not to forget popular scarfs that can take an attack from skymin like victini or genesect.

since protean is banned, i never battled against DNite, Thundu and Tornadus.

And that also does mean you need to spam seed miss. And give up that nice Sdef lowering.

Seed "Miss" only missed 1 time and yes, i know, but without Serene Grace, the sdef is not often lowered.

Shaymin has some better sets, tinted lens being one of them.

Which other sets are good?

Pls stop making lo+sheer force posts, everybody pretty much figured this out already. Maybe you could have just said "shaymin is a good user of lo+sheer force." that would have been enaugh.

Ok

Replies in bold and sry, i am not laddering very high.

 

[Pagoose]

so sheer force lo serperior is cool

It seems contrary serperior is legal in aaa. I guess whoever programmed it just let all banned abilties be used on pokemon that normally get it, even if it is unreleased. Here are some sets I theorymon'd:

SubSeed:
Serperior @ Leftovers
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Dragon Pulse
- Substitute
- Leech Seed

Offensive:
Serperior @ Life Orb
Ability: Contrary
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Hidden Power [Fighting]
- Dragon Pulse
- Taunt

Can't be bothered to write much, but gonna point out that while serperior might look pretty good spamming leaf storm with that 113 base speed, it actually only has 75 SpAtt, as well as its coverage being limited to: grass moves, hidden power, dragon pulse, end list. Because of the lack of coverage and weak SpAtt, serperior is walled by many flying, poison, and fire types, and well as flash fire steels like ferrothorn and scizor. However, if they lack this then serperior can be a force to be reckoned with against a stall team. If given a free turn or two, serperior can do stuff like this:
+6 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 300-354 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 68.8% chance to 2HKO
SubSeed is pretty good at getting free turns, as it can sub against things like mandibuzz or chansey to block a toxic, then leaf storm to boost further. SubSeed actually beats chansey pretty well, thanks to being able to spam sub thanks to leech seed restoring so much health to seperior.

 

[urdrakonis]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-172784197
Was a bit tired so I didn't make optimal plays. Otherwise, this is a fairly decent battle showing how to deal with gimmick sets here, like that trapping Mew, and the importance of rest in pp stall wars (Cune is still damn good). Also shows off Regen AV Krook, a weird set I made to check LO SF abusers; and physically defensive Moltres, which is a pretty reliable Bisharp check. This team is quite outdated (and wasn't that great to begin with) now so I'll be making adjustments soon.

Anyway, I would advise that, if paired up against one of these weird gimmick teams, you pp stall them in the most brutal fashion possible. Screw the rest of the day's laddering or whatever if you have to, just focus on the battle. That feeling when you successfully pull it off is... glorious.