Gen 6 Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire Mega Evo discussion

[alexwolf]

Sorry to be a broken record, but Mega Rayquaza also checks Mega Groudon, while Mega Salamence and regular Rayquaza don't, which is another huge advantage.

 

[lordkira]

Sorry but what's the DD mega Ray and DD mega mence sets people are referring to exactly? I'm assuming these are the sets close the being standard (even though we haven't even established a meta)

 

[Edgar]

Extremespeed (revenging utility and out ESpeeding stuff), much higher Special Attack, Delta Stream (Mega Rayquaza can tank an Ice Beam from Lugia or a Judgment from support Arceus-Rock while Mega Salamence can't), and Swords Dance are all nice perks. I wouldn't say it's outright outclassed. Having much higher base Speed than regular Rayquaza is nice too.

I meant DD set, I however think that a Mixed set would be easier to pull on Mega Ray for the reasons you stated.

 

[Madara20]

So...Mega-Ray has dual base 180 offenses like Deoxys-A, the defenses of mew and a sweet base 115 speed? Oh wait, it also has almost every coverage move a wall breaker/sweeper could ask for. Yep calling S-rank viability lol

 

[Dalbriddge]

Which non-legendary pokemon's mega should go into Ubers? I say Mega Metagross, Salamence

 

[Inspirited]

We don't decide what OU bans, but right now Mega Mence, Mega Rayquaza, and Mega Altaria look promising.

 

[Toshhy]

Im thinking for mega ray
- SD
- D. ascent
- EQ
- Extreme Speed

Just have to work around support arceus weakening it to the point es can kill. Dont think this will be the main set however as still prone to revenge kill even with ES.

As for my team just something i thought up in a couple min:

Primal Groudon
- SR
- EQ
- Fire Punch
- stone edge

Mega ray
- SD/ draco meteor
- D. Ascent
- eQ
- es

Palkia
- thunder wave
- surf
- spacial rend
- fire blast

Yveltal
- foul play
- toxic
- roost
- sucker punch

Arceus
- SD
- ES
- shadow claw
- EQ

Xern @ scarf
- moonblast
- rock slide
- etc

-----

Klekfi is prolly better over arceus being able to withstand xerm better but arceus gives revenge killing.

Klekfi
- spike
- thunder wave
- etc

 

[Mario With Lasers]

So, considering there's no Rayquazanite... do we know if M-Rayquaza can legitimately hold items?

 

[Jibaku]

You guess is as good as anyone else's

HOWEVER

Hide

 

[Cobalt314]

With all these Harsh Weather abilities activating while entering the field, I predict a lot more switching in the ORAS Ubers metagame.

 

[WebBowser]

With all these Harsh Weather abilities activating while entering the field, I predict a lot more switching in the ORAS Ubers metagame.

Good point, I feel like wobb usage is going to rise since harsh weather users are prolly going to be immune to trickscarf and can beat megagar 1v1 (fast dbonds suck, but 2 out of 3 of them have viable speed boosting sets).

 

[Vengeance417]

Mega Salamence is really scary. Note that these calcs are using Jolly, but Adamant might be considered the better nature to use since it'll outspeed most relevant threats at +1 regardless and hit harder:

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+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 417-492 (99.5 - 117.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal Groudon: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 216-256 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 108-128 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 328-387 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 213-252 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 307-363 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 262-310 (52 - 61.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 243-286 (61.6 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 222-262 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 117-138 (35 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

My stance on the Mega Ray Ray vs Mega Mence debate is that Mega Ray Ray has more immediate strength, a better SpA to make mixed sets more viable and priority in ES, but Mega Mence plucks souls out of the Gods much more efficiently at +1 and Aerilate, and also has Intimidate pre-mega and base 130 defense for easier set-up opportunities.

 

[FlowingCloud]

Mega Salamence is really scary. Note that these calcs are using Jolly, but Adamant might be considered the better nature to use since it'll outspeed most relevant threats at +1 regardless and hit harder:

Hide

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 104 HP / 32 Def Xerneas: 417-492 (99.5 - 117.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Primal Groudon: 213-252 (52.7 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0- SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 216-256 (61.3 - 72.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn in Rain: 108-128 (30.6 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 328-387 (93.1 - 109.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 213-252 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Yveltal: 307-363 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 262-310 (52 - 61.6%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 243-286 (61.6 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 222-262 (66.4 - 78.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 117-138 (35 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

My stance on the Mega Ray Ray vs Mega Mence debate is that Mega Ray Ray has more immediate strength, a better SpA to make mixed sets more viable and priority in ES, but Mega Mence plucks souls out of the Gods much more efficiently at +1 and Aerilate, and also has Intimidate pre-mega and base 130 defense for easier set-up opportunities.

1.Ray can chose SD , which will make its damage output much more than +1 Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge

2.Ray don't have few weakness in Delta Storm , Ray can stop P-Groudon/P-Kyogre's ability

well , any ice beam 0HKO Salamence in most case lol

 

[WebBowser]

1.Ray can chose SD , which will make its damage output much more than +1 Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge

2.Ray don't have few weakness in Delta Storm , Ray can stop P-Groudon/P-Kyogre's ability

well , any ice beam 0HKO Salamence in most case lol

Ice beam yes, but most users outside of kyogre won't live to get the chance. However, as it has been noted on the OU board, mence has just enough bulk to like an ice shard from mamoswine, so good luck revenging it with priority of any sort.

244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence(130 base def): 270-328 (81.5 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 183-216 (55.2 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 130-154 (39.2 - 46.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

So yeah, have fun killing this behemoth.

 

[WebBowser]

Haruno You have a valid point in that setting up mence is hard, but revenging megamence is darn near impossible. Also, nice ignoring the fact that I posted uber viable priority users directly below the mamoswine calc.

Megamence is going to be a lot like other uber sweepers in that finding opportunities to setup is hard, but checking the sweeper is even harder.

 

[Haruno]

Haruno You have a valid point in that setting up mence is hard, but revenging megamence is darn near impossible. Also, nice ignoring the fact that I posted uber viable priority users directly below the mamoswine calc.

Megamence is going to be a lot like other uber sweepers in that finding opportunities to setup is hard, but checking the sweeper is even harder.

Uh the other uber sweepers don't have anywhere near as hard a time due to one possessing 120/120/120 bulk alongside multiple sets and unpredictability. Another has stellar bulk in addition to a move combined with power herb gives you an option to literally sweep a team unless you switch in the appropriate soft check (xerneas) and even then it can run a number of different sets but due to having insane pressure with geomancy your opp often has no choice but to play safely. Until weathers work on sim I won't comment on mega Ray/primal groudon. And lastly we have blaziken which acts similarly to mega mence in theory but blaze has the advantage of being able to passively gain boosts without leaving itself vulnerable while providing overwhelming pressure.

Not to mention that if you even want to compare it to mega Ray, mega Ray has much better offenses which allows it to punish essentially any switch in rather effectively unlike mence, while Ray also might not possess as goOd bulk on paper, it makes up for it by having less weaknesses. In addition due to mence's speed tier it absolutely has to run jolly since speed tying with arceus is so crucial, whereas Ray will always go +atk/spa nature due to it not needing +spe to outspeed anything unless chomp becomes a thing again. Also mence's bulk is also compromised in the fact that it's main stab will force it to kill itself while lacking the power to threaten mons with its other moves. Overall I don't see much of a point in mence in ubers when it's heavily outclassed by mega Ray and other sweepers.

 

[Vengeance417]

Has it been confirmed if Mega Rayquaza takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock, or does its weather still activate after the hazards like all the others?

 

[stage7_4]

Has it been confirmed if Mega Rayquaza takes neutral damage from Stealth Rock, or does its weather still activate after the hazards like all the others?

Yes, it takes supereffective x2 damage from stealth rock and the weather activates after the hazard.

*Edit: Also Delta Stream won't reduce Stealth Rock damage even if it is active

 

[RandomBro]

i can see mega steelix having a niche in uber battles for being a hard counter to zekrom since it isnt even 4HKO'd by a choice band outrage and it is immune to bolt strike/volt switch.

steelix can 2HKO with EQ due to its buffed attack stat.

 

[Toshhy]

Not to mention that if you even want to compare it to mega Ray, mega Ray has much better offenses which allows it to punish essentially any switch in rather effectively unlike mence, while Ray also might not possess as goOd bulk on paper, it makes up for it by having less weaknesses. In addition due to mence's speed tier it absolutely has to run jolly since speed tying with arceus is so crucial, whereas Ray will always go +atk/spa nature due to it not needing +spe to outspeed anything unless chomp becomes a thing again. Also mence's bulk is also compromised in the fact that it's main stab will force it to kill itself while lacking the power to threaten mons with its other moves. Overall I don't see much of a point in mence in ubers when it's heavily outclassed by mega Ray and other sweepers.

I think what you meant to say is that Mega Mence slightly outclass Mega Ray rather than the other way around. The point you raised basically makes no sense, Mega Mence has higher speed than Mega Ray, it can run jolly to speed tie Arceus forms, Mega ray cannot. Both can run +attacking nature I dont see how that is a advantage for mega ray.

 

[SuperWumbology]

I think what you meant to say is that Mega Mence slightly outclass Mega Ray rather than the other way around. The point you raised basically makes no sense, Mega Mence has higher speed than Mega Ray, it can run jolly to speed tie Arceus forms, Mega ray cannot. Both can run +attacking nature I dont see how that is a advantage for mega ray.

I think what he means to say is that Ray is in that good but weird Speed tier in which he can actually have room to run a +Atk nature as he bypasses the base 100 area, and it's in that area where it is outsped by max speed Arc anyway (which will most likely be a thing to outspeed Jolly Ray). MegaMence is in the exact same Speed tier as Arceus, forcing it to run max speed+Jolly to even have a chance to avoid a burn and not waste a turn to Refresh or just get crippled and forced out. Ray is a lot more flexible this gen imo even with that interesting 115 Spe as it gives it more room to experiment.

 

[Haruno]

I think what you meant to say is that Mega Mence slightly outclass Mega Ray rather than the other way around. The point you raised basically makes no sense, Mega Mence has higher speed than Mega Ray, it can run jolly to speed tie Arceus forms, Mega ray cannot. Both can run +attacking nature I dont see how that is a advantage for mega ray.

yo no one runs +SpA mewtwo/darkrai/skymin because what they outspeed with a+spe is so crucial. Same for mence. zzzzzzzzzz Ray outspeeds literally nothing with a +spe nature hence why it doesn't need to run one, same can't be said for mence since arceus is such a crucial benchmark.

edit: hell even now, the only reason why arceus run +spe nature is to speed tie with itself which just shows how important the 120 base speed mark is.

 

[Toshhy]

I think what he means to say is that Ray is in that good but weird Speed tier in which he can actually have room to run a +Atk nature as he bypasses the base 100 area, and it's in that area where it is outsped by max speed Arc anyway (which will most likely be a thing to outspeed Jolly Ray). MegaMence is in the exact same Speed tier as Arceus, forcing it to run max speed+Jolly to even have a chance to avoid a burn and not waste a turn to Refresh or just get crippled and forced out. Ray is a lot more flexible this gen imo even with that interesting 115 Spe as it gives it more room to experiment.

Yes I know where you are coming from but that is not necessarily an advantage over mega mence for mega ray as was originally implied. It is a disadvantage lol.

But I do think mega ray can run SD set better because of its access to priorty. DD set is better left to mega mence imo.

 

[Thetwinmasters]

Umm you guys can run refresh on mega mence and get away with adamant perfectly fine

 

[Kyuzeth]

I really don't see why Mega Salamence can't run Adamant in Ubers. 120 Speed is a beautiful Speed tier for it to have and that physical bulk is impressive even among sweepers in the Uber tier.

+1 252+ Atk Silk Scarf Arceus Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Salamence: 195-229 (58.9 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 388-457 (87.3 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Just to show you Mega Salamence can definitely live a physical hit, set up a DD as Arceus SDs and then wreck Arceus with Double-Edge. Just look out for the recoil, though. I prefer to run Double-Edge/Thrash over Return, since the power difference is noticeable:

+1 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 331-391 (74.5 - 88%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yeah, you should get the point.