Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)

[Firebird101]

P2 is a nice counter and all but it's so goddamn bad from my experience in using it. It's just way too passive and it hardly does anything besides take hits. It's almost as bad of a momentum killer as Chansey, although luckily T-wave stop you from being setup fodder.

P2 should also be be used on balance, not offense. And its job is meant to force switches and spread status. Boltbeam is a great coverage and even if P2 doesnt hurt a lot it still threatens a lot of mons. T-wave cripples sweepers while toxic threatens stall. And with eviolite and recover it can be pretty hard to kill as long as you dont play recklessly with it.

Sure it aint no godsend and like so many passive mons it is an easy prey for Goth but I personally find it one of the better walls as its mixed defenses and boltbeam make it stand out enough from the likes of Chansey.

 

[Seth Vilo]

sucks when you cant touch chansey :/

Well, Chansey literally does nothing to or against you either, so that's a draw. And one that you will win as a Sableye 1v1, since you can stall it to death with WoW, while it does literally nothing back. Any status or Rocks is just useless, and Seismic Toss is obvious. So yeah it takes a while, but Sableye will come out on top.

I'm currently at a toss up on my team on using utility Sableye that alexwolf and Rosen used on their sample teams as a "Swiss Army Knife" of all trades, or a Calm Mind set. When I do either, I always end up wishing I had the other. So annoying. Right now i'm really trying the utility set though, cause Knock Off spam is just gross and hilarious.

 

[Jukain]

I honestly don't feel like it's worth using Taunt Wisp Mega Sableye over normal Sableye. You really want to keep it Prankster the entire time to make use of the set, and then what's the point of having Magic Bounce? Plus it doesn't beat Slowbro and it really doesn't pose the same threat with the sweeping capacity to teams. Btw use Wisp CM Smog Frog lol that's really the whole selling point of Mega Sableye (crippling the physical attackers vs offense so they can't break it and having that sweet sweeping potential in combination with that).

 

[escarlata]

Did some more Lopunny testing, found a set I really like.

Lopunny (F) @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
Happiness: 0
EVs: 96 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 156 Spe
Jolly Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Frustration
- Baton Pass
- Fake Out

This set is honestly brutal in how efficiently it dismantles offensive teams. The EV spread is pretty simple - maxed attack, enough speed for jolly Weavile (since it's only a couple of EVs more than Greninja and I figured it might be more common with MegaMence around) and the rest in bulk.

I took that EV spread provided for a different set I have been using, thinking that it beats Weavile in speed. Turns out that it only outspeeds 232 Spe variants (which are made to speedcreep Greninja). Lost a match where I thought I paved the way sufficiently for Lopunny to sweep, but because the opponent was running 252 Spe Weavile, it didn't happen. Considering the ladder players usually puts Weavile at 252 Spe, I think it is better to use 80 HP / 252 Atk / 176 Spe for max speed Weavile instead, for just in case. And since unfixable is using the same EV spread, am tagging him here to let him know too.

 

[Wargreymon]

Gunk shot greninja is mega greninja. This frog destroys everything now and I mean everything. It's starting to scare me more than mega salamence. It's impossible to prepare for it.

I like swamperts self supporting rain set, although it's hard countered by that stupid washing machine which is a big issue. Also disappointing that ice punch misses out on the latios KO (43% chance with rocks). It's almost like a slightly worse version of agility mega gross.
Is energy ball mega sceptile worth a shot? Giga drain is piss weak and leaf storms side effects don't sit well with me, even if it is a nuke...

 

[Machi]

Gunk shot greninja is mega greninja. This frog destroys everything now and I mean everything. It's starting to scare me more than mega salamence. It's impossible to prepare for it.

Except Mence has a ton of bulk to go alongside his attacks... I know Greninja received quite a boon with gunk shot but the whole better coverage is being exaggerated since it isn't exactly all that difficult to take down given its frailty, compounded only by LO and hazard vulnerability (really a far cry from MMence).

Yes it is good but cmon let us at least calm down here and not go into hyperbole.

 

[Josh Morales]

Except Mence has a ton of bulk to go alongside his attacks... I know Greninja received quite a boon with gunk shot but the whole better coverage is being exaggerated since it isn't exactly all that difficult to take down given its frailty, compounded only by LO and hazard vulnerability (really a far cry from MMence).

Yes it is good but cmon let us at least calm down here and not go into hyperbole.

Gren is S rank now for a reason and it just got harder to deal with. If anything you just explained why Mence should not be in OU by showing how many advantages it has over a top-tier mon in OU.

 

[Machi]

Gren is S rank now for a reason and it just got harder to deal with. If anything you just explained why Mence should not be in OU by showing how many advantages it has over a top-tier mon in OU.

The point isn't about viability rankings it is about not exaggerating so let us try to stick to more objectivity here. Since there are so many over the top claims of Greninja.

 

[Celticpride]

Except Mence has a ton of bulk to go alongside his attacks... I know Greninja received quite a boon with gunk shot but the whole better coverage is being exaggerated since it isn't exactly all that difficult to take down given its frailty, compounded only by LO and hazard vulnerability (really a far cry from MMence).

Yes it is good but cmon let us at least calm down here and not go into hyperbole.

Gunk Shot overpowers almost all of Greninja's previous strong checks and counters. Low Kick only compounds the problem by giving it a good option against those few remaining things that can stand up to Gunk Ninja. That's all before you add Spikes Ninja into the equation. You really never know what it's carrying, and can send a check to a quick death easily. But as Wargreymon pointed out, this is discussion for the ORAS tutor moves thread (where it has been discussed to death).

 

[BlackSIlk90]

I really like MegaMence, been trying to come up with an optimal EV set. So far I have:

Salamence@Mega Stone
Naive:Intimidate
252 Atk 40 Sp.atk 216 Speed
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Thrash
-Draco Meteor

I feel that max attack isn't completely necessary when the only time I will be bringing him in is once Steels/Fairies are dead and his checks are weakened; at which point he can nab an easy +1 with Dragon Dance, and proceed to clean up with STAB Aerialate Thrash. 216 Speed EVs gives me 363, enough to outrun non-scarfed positive 115s. This allows me to get the jump on Starmie, Thundurus, Gengar and scarfed 70s such as T-tar. The Special Attack EVs are for Draco Meteor to have some kick, as it allows me to 2HKO Rotom-W after SR, and Hippowdon whoo otherwise resist/take Thrash rather well. Ideas welcome

 

[Of Moose & Men]

I really like MegaMence, been trying to come up with an optimal EV set. So far I have:

Salamence@Mega Stone
Naive:Intimidate
252 Atk 40 Sp.atk 216 Speed
-Dragon Dance
-Earthquake
-Thrash
-Draco Meteor

I feel that max attack isn't completely necessary when the only time I will be bringing him in is once Steels/Fairies are dead and his checks are weakened; at which point he can nab an easy +1 with Dragon Dance, and proceed to clean up with STAB Aerialate Thrash. 216 Speed EVs gives me 363, enough to outrun non-scarfed positive 115s. This allows me to get the jump on Starmie, Thundurus, Gengar and scarfed 70s such as T-tar. The Special Attack EVs are for Draco Meteor to have some kick, as it allows me to 2HKO Rotom-W after SR, and Hippowdon whoo otherwise resist/take Thrash rather well. Ideas welcome

Just so you know, trash has the same BP as double edge without leaving yourself open to rotom coming in and wisping, or any of its other few and far between checks to come in and off it.

Because if those checks aren't taken care of its pretty much got a point less moveset that can be carried by other pokes. Thus, just taking up a slot.

 

[DoomBringer413]

Ok I have had a play with quite a few of the new ORAS megas and wanted to give my thoughts about the ones I have used.
Metagross is not as good in practice as it is on paper. It hits hard but just not hard enough to get a clean KO. It has great bulk but lack of recovery means it still gets quickly worn down. Its a solid OU mon but I can't see it being top tier OU either. I have never done a full sweep with it nor has anyone ever done that to me.

You DO know that Metagross gets Hone Claws....
And that it have Tough Claws.....
AND that it have a higher attack stat and speed that Zard X right (not counting D-Dance)?
Really, I don't see why you think Metagross is bad. Although 2 turns doing nothing except boosting attack speed w/ agility and Hone Claws is quite a troll, I believe that Metagross will still be a solid mega in OU with only "Claws". It has enough power and punch to get into a top threat. Trust me. The only thing that would stop Metagross from going into the S tier in OU is the lack of Shift Gear. Give the monster that, and it would just get so much power.

 

[BlackSIlk90]

Just so you know, trash has the same BP as double edge without leaving yourself open to rotom coming in and wisping, or any of its other few and far between checks to come in and off it.

Because if those checks aren't taken care of its pretty much got a point less moveset that can be carried by other pokes. Thus, just taking up a slot.

I do forget that sometimes, but I also don't like the recoil when I have no way to heal outside of Healing Wish from my Bulky Defog Latias. However is the general consensus Double Edge>Thrash?

 

[Celticpride]

I do forget that sometimes, but I also don't like the recoil when I have no way to heal outside of Healing Wish from my Bulky Defog Latias. However is the general consensus Double Edge>Thrash?

You can always carry Roost over another move. Or use Return. Decent sized power drop off, but no side effects at all.

 

[BlackSIlk90]

Does Return/Frustration miss out on any important KOs that DE/Thrash get?

 

[Milkyrose]

I'm going to be blunt here.

Your set is really shit. Like really, REALLY shit.

Draining Kiss is very weak even when boosted (it can't OHKO Weavile after Rocks when you're +1) and the healing effect is not worth the power drop from Dazzling Gleam. This combined with your overall passive-ness makes setting up difficult when tons of things like freaking Gengar get free switches on you and can 2HKO you through a SpD boost while you do shit back.

+1 0 SpA Audino Hidden Power Dark vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Weavile: 152-182 (54 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+1 0 SpA Audino Hidden Power Dark vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 51-60 (19.5 - 22.9%) -- possible 5HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Audino: 221-265 (53.9 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

(Draining Kiss isn't on the calc btw so I had to use another move)

Even at +6 you barely have a chance to OHKO already frail neutral targets like Bisharp (who threatens you immensely).

+6 0 SpA Audino Hidden Power Dark vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 240-283 (88.2 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Audino: 170-204 (41.4 - 49.7%) -- 82% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Mega Audino has no recovery outside of WishTect, but your set switches out Protect for Heal Bell. This gimps your setup ability even further since you cannot keep yourself healthy. Draining Kiss is too weak before boosts to provide the recovery you need desperately since you'll usually be going last each turn and have to take hits beforehand.

And this isn't even getting into stuff like of Ferrothorn (hint: you lose because lol Iron Barbs).

Now that I think about it I'm just gonna use altaria as a mega,

(Altaria) @ Altarite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
- Echoed Voice
- Cotton Guard
- Fire Blast
- Roost
Altaria has pretty decent special attack now so I decided to go a little more defensively, also I don't have Hyper Voice so I have echoed voice as a substitute but it still works pretty well when I tried using it :)

 

[DoomBringer413]

Now that I think about it I'm just gonna use altaria as a mega,

(Altaria) @ Altarite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
- Echoed Voice
- Cotton Guard
- Fire Blast
- Roost
Altaria has pretty decent special attack now so I decided to go a little more defensively, also I don't have Hyper Voice so I have echoed voice as a substitute but it still works pretty well when I tried using it :)

Interesting set, but echoed voice could only be spammed, which is a huge letdown.

 

[Random Passerby]

Now that I think about it I'm just gonna use altaria as a mega,

(Altaria) @ Altarite
Ability: Cloud Nine
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 SpA
Calm Nature
- Echoed Voice
- Cotton Guard
- Fire Blast
- Roost
Altaria has pretty decent special attack now so I decided to go a little more defensively, also I don't have Hyper Voice so I have echoed voice as a substitute but it still works pretty well when I tried using it :)

Hyper Voice will be available as a move tutor in the remakes, no? Since you can only get the Mega Stone there, there is no reason to run Echoed Voice. Btw, I believed there was a better EV spread somewhere in the thread. It can counter both Mega Zards.

 

[Of Moose & Men]

I've seen a plethora of people talking about how absolutely broken mMence is. And i agree, 100%. However, I've noticed that there is far less talk of how absolutely broken ans bullshit destructive mBro is. It's damn near impossible to breakdown, and don't pull that "don't let it set up bull", sometimes you have no choice. And if the one mon i have on my team that was dedicated to this grey turd is dead, i am forced to click the forfeit button.

TLDR
mBro is an annoying P.O.S.

 

[daftmau5]

Gonna share a set that my boy Disorient and i came up with for one of the most underrated megas, Mega Latias. It's basically just a twist on the classic gen 5 set but benefits from Mega Latias' stupidly high 80/120/150 bulk and brand new toy in Stored Power. 140 SpA also hits ridiculously hard despite being uninvested after a couple of boosts.

Shoutouts to Jacksoras for heavily testing this set and building a cool team with me around it to prove that it actually works.

Latias @ Latiasite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spe
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Substitute
- Roost
- Stored Power

Ok first of all, this set is walled by Dark types but you have 5 other slots to take care of stuff like Bisharp/Ttar etc (do people even use Mandibuzz anymore?). Use it as a win con and only set up when you can go for the sweep. 248 HP & 160+ Def gives Mega Latias incredible physical bulk while the 100 spe creeps stuff like 160 spe Mew and then a bit more just in case (which incidentally covers stuff like Max Spe Tran which might toxic you if you're not behind a sub). You can probably run less speed if you want but i suggest 80 as a minimum to outrun Adamant Excadrill.

This set absolutely tears through balance and stall and also through offensive teams when given the correct support (i.e. kill bish, gengar, ttar, etc).

Bulk:

• 252+ Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 133-156 (36.6 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

• 252+ Atk Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 147-174 (40.4 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 137-162 (37.7 - 44.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
  
  
• 252 Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 112-134 (30.8 - 36.9%) -- 67.4% chance to 3HKO (Knock Off actually does less cos of the mega stone)

• 252+ Atk Mega Swampert Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 136-162 (37.4 - 44.6%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

• 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 111-132 (30.5 - 36.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

• 252+ Atk Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 130-154 (35.8 - 42.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

• 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 160-189 (44 - 52%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO

• 252 Atk Mega Gallade Ice Punch vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 134-158 (36.9 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

• 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 117-140 (32.2 - 38.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 3HKO

• 72 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 101-120 (27.8 - 33%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

• 4 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 138-164 (38 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

• 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Icy Wind vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 126-150 (34.7 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

• 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 260-307 (71.6 - 84.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (just roost after)

Greninja also can't come into Mega Latias after 1 CM unless you're super unlucky. At this point it would need to either flinch with Dark Pulse or freeze you while you CM/Roost/Sub up:

• 252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 151-182 (41.5 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO

You can also set up all over stuff like Ferrothorn by using Sub/Roost to stall out its 8 Gyro Ball pp. Heck, if you can manage to burn Ferrothorn with something like Rotom-w or Mew, Ferrothorn can't do anything at all:

• 0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 105-124 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 2.5% chance to 3HKO
• 0 Atk burned Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (150 BP) vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 52-62 (14.3 - 17%) -- possible 6HKO

I don't think i really need to give you guys calcs to show how hard +6 base 140 SpA Stored Power hits especially since everyone is familiar with Espeon on the end of GeoPass but here:

• +6 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Cresselia: 447-526 (100.6 - 118.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
• +6 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (260 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 268-316 (66.3 - 78.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

It also beats other set up such as Mega Slowbro and Suicune by sheer virtue of base power.

• +6 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (260 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 331-391 (81.9 - 96.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
• +6 0 SpA Mega Latias Stored Power (260 BP) vs. +6 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Slowbro: 224-264 (56.8 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
• +6 0 SpA Mega Slowbro Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 160+ Def Mega Latias: 147-173 (40.4 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Replays

As for replays, i wish i saved some good ones from a room tour this morning but here are some from Jacksoras and I that will give you an idea of what the set can do:

• Rain - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-177783955
• Random Ladder - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-176808731
• Random Ladder - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-177888017
  
• Random Ladder - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-176867991
• Baton Pass lol - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-177873857
• Haxy af but still w/e - http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/orasou-176361484

Yay! Another fat psychic in OU. Have fun and watch out for crits :]

Edits: Calcs, formatting, w/e

 

[Rudoku]

Hyper Voice will be available as a move tutor in the remakes, no? Since you can only get the Mega Stone there, there is no reason to run Echoed Voice. Btw, I believed there was a better EV spread somewhere in the thread. It can counter both Mega Zards.

Hell, Hyper Voice is an Egg Move for it right now. He's just trying to be special.

 

[Albacore]

sucks when you cant touch chansey :/

It's not like Chansey can do anything back lol, you just PP stall it to death. Shadow Ball>Dark Pulse if only for the ability to actually deal damage to MGardevoir and other Fairies.

Also, is it just me or is MBro not really that good, or rather, not as amazing as everyone said it would be? I mean yeah, it takes hit incredibly well, and crit immunity makes it easy to set up, but for whatever reason, no matter what team I'm using I can always get past it, and it's not like I overprepare for it or anything. MBro's problems mainly stem from how susceptible it is to getting worn down. If it runs Slack Off it's screwed over by Toxic and, to a lesser extent, Burn which turns a lot 3HKOs into 2HKOs, if it runs Sleep Talk that means I just need to 3HKO it to beat it. I don't think I've actually lost a MBro on the ladder yet, but that may be just me.

Same with MMetagross really, in theory it can do all this amazing stuff, but it suffers from pretty bad 4MSS, and it's not too hard to scout given how much stuff resists its dual STAB. You're likely to have something on your team that can take it on no matter what set it's running. It is also, like MSlowbro, very prone to getting worn down. It's certainly very good, but it's not really something that makes me shake in my boots whenever I see it in team preview.

MGallade, on the other hand, is possibly suspect-worthy at the very least. Personally, it gives me huge problems whenever I face it, regardless of whether I'm running stall or offense (unless I'm using MSableye which is admittedly a hard stop to it), even more so than MMetagross believe it or not. Lives hits it shouldn't even be allowed to take such as Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump or LO Bisharp Sucker Punch, gets SDs off very easily, has pretty much just one good switchin in the entire tier, etc... IMO The main reason it doesn't seem that great in ORAS right now is because MMence roasts it, but it'll definitely become a ridiculous threat once MMence gets banned (not that it isn't already).

 

[Celticpride]

Also, is it just me or is MBro not really that good, or rather, not as amazing as everyone said it would be? I mean yeah, it takes hit incredibly well, and crit immunity makes it easy to set up, but for whatever reason, no matter what team I'm using I can always get past it, and it's not like I overprepare for it or anything. MBro's problems mainly stem from how susceptible it is to getting worn down. If it runs Slack Off it's screwed over by Toxic and, to a lesser extent, Burn which turns a lot 3HKOs into 2HKOs, if it runs Sleep Talk that means I just need to 3HKO it to beat it. I don't think I've actually lost a MBro on the ladder yet, but that may be just me.

I think everybody is really overprepared for Mega Slowbro right now. All this unkilliable Slowbro talk leads to people overloading to take it down. I've seen a lot of Weavile, VoltTurn, and Raikou on the ladder personally, and that hurts Slowbro a lot as well. Its a good physical wall but if it can't find a window the CM it's not going to destroy whole teams.

 

[Pottd]

Hyper Voice will be available as a move tutor in the remakes, no? Since you can only get the Mega Stone there, there is no reason to run Echoed Voice. Btw, I believed there was a better EV spread somewhere in the thread. It can counter both Mega Zards.

Check* both Zards, not really a counter to any of them since it takes a lot from Fire Blast and FlareBlitz and cant OHKO back

 

[Wargreymon]

What do you guys think about EQ on mega sceptile? I can't stand focus miss, and with a hasty nature (sceptiles defence is already trash) and a measly 16 EVs in attack you guarantee the OHKO on scarf magnezone. It also hits heatran much harder and doesn't miss.