Pokémon Greninja

[.Sleepy Slowpoke]

STAB on everything is one of the bigger perks of Protean that still remains true on Choice sets, though Scarf will still probably be lacking in power some. Probably won't be awful though with the new fast Mega threats coming about and it has U-turn for momentum throughout the game as well. Life Orb Greninja will be a lot more useful 85% of the time though.

i usually use U-Turn Expert Belt Greninja just to hit and run
then when they're weakened enough, you just Ice Beam, Surf, or even Extrasensonary

Life Orb hurts you too much when you wanna hit and run
i was tired of that shit so i just slapped an Expert Belt on it

 

[Karxrida]

i usually use U-Turn Expert Belt Greninja just to hit and run
then when they're weakened enough, you just Ice Beam, Surf, or even Extrasensonary

Life Orb hurts you too much when you wanna hit and run
i was tired of that shit so i just slapped an Expert Belt on it

Greninja is a horrible U-turn user as it cannot switch into anything to pivot like Lando-T or Scizor. You should replace it with a coverage move and use a Life Orb.

 

[.Sleepy Slowpoke]

Greninja is a horrible U-turn user as it cannot switch into anything to pivot like Lando-T or Scizor. You should replace it with a coverage move and use a Life Orb.

i use it on my VoltTurn team so i can VoltTurn on the Lati@s switch and send out Greninja to either U-Turn, or Ice Beam if they're low enough
Greninja's not a horrible U-Turn user; it just needs the teammates to back it up

 

[Karxrida]

i use it on my VoltTurn team so i can VoltTurn on the Lati@s switch and send out Greninja to either U-Turn, or Ice Beam if they're low enough
Greninja's not a horrible U-Turn user; it just needs the teammates to back it up

Or you can use the opportunity to nuke whatever's in front of you and not waste valuable coverage. Not everything on VoltTurn needs to have VoltTurn in its moveset.

 

[Jaguar360]

Greninja is a horrible U-turn user as it cannot switch into anything to pivot like Lando-T or Scizor. You should replace it with a coverage move and use a Life Orb.

Greninja uses U-turn in different ways than Lando-T and Scizor do. U-turn is mainly for anticipating switches for Greninja and for getting chip damage while gaining momentum. Greninja's coverage kind of diminishes U-turn's uses on it especially now that it has Gunk Shot, but I wouldn't say that it is a bad user of it at all.

 

[Karxrida]

Greninja uses U-turn in different ways than Lando-T and Scizor do. U-turn is mainly for anticipating switches for Greninja and for getting chip damage while gaining momentum. Greninja's coverage kind of diminishes U-turn's uses on it especially now that it has Gunk Shot, but I wouldn't say that it is a bad user of it at all.

Greninja's best switch-ins are Chansey (one of the easiest things to lure out for Double Switches in the history of ever) and Fairies, which bar Mega Gardevoir resist U-turn and take more damage from Hydro Pump regardless.

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 177-211 (44.9 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 51-60 (12.9 - 15.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 153-183 (55.2 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 130-153 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 45-55 (11.4 - 13.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 153-183 (38.8 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 57-68 (14.2 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 78-92 (19.4 - 22.9%) -- possible 5HKO

Hydro Pump hits even fucking AV Azumarill harder X_X
There is literally no reason to run U-turn for "chip damage". You should be saving Greninja for lategame anyway when it can just clean up instead of trying to use it as a subpar momentum grabber.

 

[Mashuu]

Greninja's best switch-ins are Chansey (one of the easiest things to lure out for Double Switches in the history of ever) and Fairies, which bar Mega Gardevoir resist U-turn and take more damage from Hydro Pump regardless.

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Clefable: 177-211 (44.9 - 53.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 160 Def Clefable: 51-60 (12.9 - 15.2%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 153-183 (55.2 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 130-153 (46.9 - 55.2%) -- 69.1% chance to 2HKO

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 220+ Def Sylveon: 45-55 (11.4 - 13.9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 36 SpD Sylveon: 153-183 (38.8 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

4 Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 57-68 (14.2 - 16.9%) -- possible 6HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 78-92 (19.4 - 22.9%) -- possible 5HKO

Hydro Pump hits even fucking AV Azumarill harder X_X
There is literally no reason to run U-turn for "chip damage". You should be saving Greninja for lategame anyway when it can just clean up instead of trying to use it as a subpar momentum grabber.

With all the friggin moves it gets and now mixninja and everything, it simply doesn't have room for U-turn, and it has enough coverage to end-game sweep

 

[Seru]

imo U-Turn Greninja it's not bad, but not worth to switch some coverage move like Extrasensory or HP Fire to a Scout Move on a non-full physical dmg mon, plus the -def or -sp. def nature that u need to use on it. Also, greninja still take outspeed to a lot of threats like M-Manectric, so there's no reason to run U-Turn like u make on a Scarf Landorus-T, in the end u'll will neither use it.

 

[Phione]

Oh, Mew, no. I loved Greninja from when I first saw him on the XY homepage, but I am flipping the fuck out right now. GRENINJA HAS ALMOST NO COUNTERS LEFT. THE NINJAPOCALYPSE IS UPON US.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
230 SpA/252 Spe/26 Atk
Naive Nature
-Gunk Shot
-Hydro Pump/Surf
-Dark Pulse
-Ice Beam/Grass Knot/HP Fire/Extrasensory

Even with such 4MSS, Greninja seems really, really scary. If it got Rapid Spin as a move tutor, I would

flip out.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

Greninja is going to almost ridiculous after ORAS with so few switch ins and his now huge movepool. I think he is almost borderline uber but just not that ridiculous yet. While Gren will now suffer a little 4MSS he can easily be tailored to the teams needs making him unpredictable and even scarier to fight then he is now. Kyurem giving you a hard time, use low kick, How about Keldeo and Clefable. Use Gunk shot and Extrasensory. Bulky psychics getting in the way of mega medicham. Slap on dark pulse. Want to beat Manetcric or +1 DDancers Slap on a scarf. The amount of versatility he now has is scary

As it currently stands once ORAS hits there is only 3 pokemon bulky enough off the top of my head that can switch into most Greninja's sets and win while still being useful in other roles. Evolite chansey (utility wall), Evolite Porygon 2 (Pivot) and Umbreon (Wish-cleric with foul play), everything else is 2hkoed after rocks or is useless after beating Gren. Of those counters Only chansey is commonly seen and can be dealt with via knock off from a teammate while Porygon 2 and Umbreon can be beaten with Trappers if you really fear them. In addition none of these 3 can really fit into Hyper offense meaning such teams can only prey for a revenge kill in which case just Switch out and laugh.

Once mega mance and like mega gross are gone you can bet Gren will be the King ORAS.

This is the set I expect to be most common. Have fun Trying to prediect this
Greninja Life Orb
Timid/Naive
252 SPATK, 252 SPe , 4HP
- Hydro pump
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory/Dark Pulse
- Gunk Shot/Low Kick/U-turn

 

[Siggu]

I would not really say Greninja has 4MSS - sure, it has more really useful moves than available move slots, but it's not like Greninja's role is diminished because of that. If anything, it lets Greninja pick what to beat depending on its team's needs, and with these new moves, the chances your Greninja check is easily beaten by a surprise (But viable) move are higher. While Hydro Pump and Ice Beam are almost a given, good luck guessing the other two moves...

Hide

While kinda off-topic, I feel like a fool for taking so long to realize why it has Protean. It's a ninja, and ninjas pretended to be someone of a different job, which is what Protean does when performing a move.

 

[silver97]

a pokemon that can effectively try to counter or at least check greninja is assault vest volcanion.
i don't know if it will be an useful and efficient set because it is sr weak and doesn't have any form of recovery outside of water absorb, but i don't know i'll just leave it here

Volcanion @ Assault Vest
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb

it respectively absorbs and double resists greninja's staples hpump and ice beam and is not weak to other moves, it can then retaliate with powerful moves such as steam eruption. the evs can be improved depending on what it needs to outspeed or what it needs to tank, i'm just giving generic spread here.
i don't know if already posted this somewhere but i'm too lazy to check 60 pages

 

[Vengeance417]

Hide

While kinda off-topic, I feel like a fool for taking so long to realize why it has Protean. It's a ninja, and ninjas pretended to be someone of a different job, which is what Protean does when performing a move.

Hide

And now I just realized why Kecleon has Protean too; it's...a chameleon that changes "colors" .____. /feelsstupid

Greninja has become the bane of my existence to deal with. He hardly has any switch ins whatsoever, he could be running any particular move he wants at this point and by the time you realize what he packs, it's too late.

Oh, planning on Volt Switching out with Rotom? lol, Spikes then HP Grass.

You think Keldeo and Mega Venusaur's gonna save you? Extrasensory, bitch.

Bulky waters? lel, let me tie this Grass Knot.

Ferrothorn? THIS, POWER'S ON FIIIIRREEE!

Fairies? Let me shit on my hand real quick and throw this Gunk at you.

AV T-Tar, Umbreon and Chansey? Let me Kick you really Low towards your genitals

...

I'm getting a Luke Skywalker vibe here ;_;

 

[LoDart210]

Thank goodness gunk shot has 70 accuracy, that'll deter people from using it. Even then, it's focus miss but poison. I still fear greatly, the Greninja that is coming.

I've been using a rather forgotten mon, as of late, in an attempt to counter greninja.

Specs jolteon. Volt switch is always good, hp ice does massive damage if hes ground or grass, with a chance to KO if rocks are up

And shadow ball is decent coverage.

What do you think? Too early to being back jolt?


While I'm here how does this set look?

Greninja @ life orb/expert belt
Protean
252 SpAtk/252 Spe/4 Atk
Hasty
- Gunk Shot
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- HP Fire/Dark Pulse/Extrasensory

I'm really starting to lose faith in hydro pump as low kick does to heatran what HP does as well as hitting ttar variants hard.

 

[thelandlordsmm]

Thank goodness gunk shot has 70 accuracy, that'll deter people from using it. Even then, it's focus miss but poison. I still fear greatly, the Greninja that is coming.

I've been using a rather forgotten mon, as of late, in an attempt to counter greninja.

Specs jolteon. Volt switch is always good, hp ice does massive damage if hes ground or grass, with a chance to KO if rocks are up

And shadow ball is decent coverage.

What do you think? Too early to being back jolt?


While I'm here how does this set look?

Greninja @ life orb/expert belt
Protean
252 SpAtk/252 Spe/4 Atk
Hasty
- Gunk Shot
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam
- HP Fire/Dark Pulse/Extrasensory

I'm really starting to lose faith in hydro pump as low kick does to heatran what HP does as well as hitting ttar variants hard.

Gunk Shot was buffed to 80% accuracy this gen. It's more like Poison Hydro Pump (but physical obviously).

 

[SketchUp]

The thing that makes Greninja so strong imo is that the 4 moves you will probably see most of the time (Grass Knot, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse and in ORAS Gunk Shot) is unresisted by no pokémon not factoring in abilities. Now, you might think: for example's Gengar's Shadow Ball + Sludge Wave + Focus Blast is also unresisted not factoring in abilities. The thing that makes Greninja so insanely powerful is his ability combined with its speed. Gengar only gets STAB on 2 of his 3 moves and Greninja gets STAB on every move he has. Combine that with his speed that outspeed every relevant not scarfer bar Mega Manectric, Weavile and Talonflame and that makes Greninja imo the best pokemon in the current metagame, as Greninja eats offensive teams and they are very popular atm.

 

[silver97]

The thing that makes Greninja so strong imo is that the 4 moves you will probably see most of the time (Grass Knot, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, Dark Pulse and in ORAS Gunk Shot) is unresisted by no pokémon not factoring in abilities. Now, you might think: for example's Gengar's Shadow Ball + Sludge Wave + Focus Blast is also unresisted not factoring in abilities. The thing that makes Greninja so insanely powerful is his ability combined with its speed. Gengar only gets STAB on 2 of his 3 moves and Greninja gets STAB on every move he has. Combine that with his speed that outspeed every relevant not scarfer bar Mega Manectric, Weavile and Talonflame and that makes Greninja imo the best pokemon in the current metagame, as Greninja eats offensive teams and they are very popular atm.

actually extrasensory is used more than dark pulse and grass knot can be replaced by hp fire sometimes. what makes greninja fantastic is not that anything can resist its moves, is that you can't be sure of what moves it is carrying and when you find out them it may be too late. i mean even if you have chansey you are not sure to be able to handle it as it can have a taunt spikes set

 

[I.care.0]

actually extrasensory is used more than dark pulse and grass knot can be replaced by hp fire sometimes. what makes greninja fantastic is not that anything can resist its moves, is that you can't be sure of what moves it is carrying and when you find out them it may be too late. i mean even if you have chansey you are not sure to be able to handle it as it can have a taunt spikes set

tl.dr: Greninja is the new DPP Mew.

 

[MegaAlteriaX]

Here's a Greninja set that I think deserves some spotlight that makes use of it's signature move and it's ability to force out many switches which can create a free substitute that can help it beat counters such as Talonflame

Greninja @ Chesto Berry
Ability: Torrent
EVs: Don't matter
Adamant/Impish/Jolly Nature
- Water Shuriken
- Sleep Talk
- Rest
- Substitute

You use the frogs ability to force switches by setting up a sub and then nailing anything hard with its signature move and also beat talonflame. You also get torrent boosted attacks by the subs and rest can allow you to recover HP while chesto and sleep talk don't leave you useless. Since you are using rest however I would recommend investing in its bulk but in the end the EVs dont really matter

 

[preserve]

Has anyone considered Empoleon or porygon2 as Greninja counters? I think these two are the best counters to greninja at the moment.

 

[Norne]

Has anyone considered Empoleon or porygon2 as Greninja counters? I think these two are the best counters to greninja at the moment.

Low kick hurts empoleon badly. And Unless Evd for spdef. I think porygon 2 gets 2hkod by LO hydropump after rocks. Most porygons this days are physically defensive to attempt stoping Msalamence.

 

[Creator of Chaos]

At this point as far as gren counters go your limited to Umbreon, Chansey and if no hazards are up cresslia. Thats it. nothing else can willingly switch in without getting 2hkoed or just being plain useless after. Empoleon gets wrecked by low kick and porygon needs to go physical to beat other threats. Saying that even those arent hard counters as gren can set up atleast 2 spike layers if it wants before dieing or uturn out to preserve momentoum.

Honestly giving Gren gunk shot is the worst idra gamefreak has had since now it can sweep through offensive teams at will and trouble defensive teams not packing a counter.

 

[AxemRed]

Has anyone considered Empoleon or porygon2 as Greninja counters? I think these two are the best counters to greninja at the moment.

In the current meta, as the Ninja lacks Gunk Shot, the best counter is Chansey IMO. But still a mix set can be effective for switch options.
U-Turn works pretty well on Greninja even in Timid ones and deals sweet amount of damage to Tar, Chansey, Nonscarfed-Rotom Wash and Slowbro.

 

[Karxrida]

In the current meta, as the Ninja lacks Gunk Shot, the best counter is Chansey IMO. But still a mix set can be effective for switch options.
U-Turn works pretty well on Greninja even in Timid ones and deals sweet amount of damage to Tar, Chansey, Nonscarfed-Rotom Wash and Slowbro.

All of them bar Chansey (who's stupidly easy to lure out for Double Switches) can be 2HKO'd by coverage.

0- Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 117-140 (29 - 34.7%) -- 3.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 289-343 (71.7 - 85.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Rotom-W: 60-71 (19.7 - 23.3%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory/Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-W: 136-161 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- 85.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

0- Atk Life Orb Protean Greninja U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 117-140 (29.6 - 35.5%) -- 21.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 351-413 (89 - 104.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Seriously stop running U-Turn Greninja.

 

[havokchomp123]

Since I had this set posted in the greninja analysis, i guess ill just post it here as well. U may call it a dumb or mediocre but it's worked for me one multiple occasions. But hey what do I know.
Greninja: Suicide shinobi

#########

Name: suicide shinobi

Move 1: spikes/toxic spikes

Move 2: taunt

Move 3: water shuriken

Move 4: Surf/Hydro pump

Item: focus sash

Ability: torrent

Ev’s: 252 attack, 252 speed, 4 special attack

Nature: naïve

Moves:

Greninja’s high speed, access to taunt, and access to both spikes makes him a great suicide lead. The choice of either spikes or toxic spikes comes down to preference. Spikes are overall the better of the two, but toxic spikes can be useful for some more defensively based teams to stall. Taunt is there to shut down other hazard setters and taunters. The reason torrent is great on this set is because when u combine the focus sash and torrent, greninja can act as a decent revenge killer with a boosted water shuriken, surf, or hydro pump. The classic surf vs. hydro pump is entirely up to preference, although hydro pump is probably the better of the two since it secures more KO’s or damage, and greninja will not be staying in long so the lack of PP isn’t a serious issue. However, if you are shaky about the accuracy, surf can still be used for some moderate damage. And finally, while a protean greninja isn’t suited to use water shuriken, the torrent boost and ev’s provided can give greninja the ability to pick off some weakened foes and break opposing substitutes and sashes respectively. Some other options could include scald and ice beam. Scald gets the torrent boost and has the nifty chance of burning, but the power of hydro pump and surf makes scald inferior in this set. Ice beam is a good choice to allow greninja deal some damage to opposing grass types, and dent foes such as garchomp and gliscor, but without more special attack investment and the protean ability it is overall a subpar option.

Set details:

The ev’s provided are to make greninja maximize water shuriken’s power. The naïve nature is there to make it so that neither physical or special attacks made by greninja are hindered. Alternatively, some more special attack could be used to secure some KO’s with hydro pump or surf if there is a desire to do so.

Usage Tips:

Since Greninja are always protean, it’s important to keep that in mind while using this set. Protean greninja forces a lot of switches, so try to use this bluff to your advantage by setting up spikes on the switch. The focus sash will enable greninja to get off at least 2 spikes for the most part, and using the proper bluff will enable greninja to possibly get off 3. If greninja’s health is low or activates the focus sash, you can use either of your two attacking options to deal as much damage as possible. However, preserving greninja isn’t a bad choice, as the power provided by torrent can make greninja a great revenge killer with water shuriken. However, this should be done when hazards are off the field otherwise you should just try to set up more spikes or try pick off a weakened foe that is already on the field.

Please keep in mind this is not my full analysis as I still haven’t done enough damage calculations for water shuriken