Yeah, I tried playing with regular Slurpuff too and I have to say that it feels very much the same. I've had a little success with it and it is kind of fun to use, but I'm more often than not wishing I was using something else. Its presence on the teams I've made have felt a little forced and with the support I was running for him(dual screens) I spent a lot of time wishing I had brought something like an Altaria instead. Maybe I've undersold and misused Slurpuff and he'll wind up deserving a B-Rank, but I'm just not seeing it.
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np: UU Stage 1 - Changes
- Thread starter Calloflochie
- Start date
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Assuming you use protect on Beedrill, since at times getting him to MEVO can be a pain thanks to that speed, which have you found more useful to run Knock off or Drill Run? I'm honestly leaning a bit more on Knock off since it is a lot more spammable and can hit some pesky Jirachi/Bronzong or removes some rocky helmet users switching in, and you still hit Chandelure. Course you miss out on hitting Lucario, but he has extreme speed so I wouldn't even bother there given the paper thin defenses, that said is there anything too important that Drill Run hits over the utility and power of Knock off that should be considered?
Rotom-H has also been acquiring some attention in UU again, in checking bird spam or just part of a Volt-turn team (now that Victini is gone). So that is another option and it doesn't take up a mega-slot since I find Mega-Amp is a big opportunity cost with all the other hard hitting megas around at the moment, but I guess once the shift occurs he'll likely fair better when choices have dwindled. Otherwise, the ever popular check all MAero seems to do the job and a whole lot more.
That said it would be really interesting to see how UU would be if MAero moved up, since he has also gained more viability in OU for the same reason he does in UU (checking many of the new Megas).
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I actually think Togekiss is balanced in this tier atm.
Please don't hate me. Here is my rationale:
With mega pidegot, beedrill, staraptor (all balanced in the tier imo), strong, fast u-turn/bird spam is really popular. With that, things like Raikou, Rotom-H, Bronzong, Metagross, and Jirachi are all really good. they check most of the big threats (esp bronzong). Mega Aggron is also really popular atm, since it beats crobat and the like. Things like diance and the like beat togekiss 1v1 unless it relies on paraflinch, but if it's paraflinch, it has to forfeit a better coverage move, recovery, or heal bell.
And old threats like Mega-aero and the nido's still beat the defensive/specially defensive defog sets. The speedy set beats bulky offense (chandelure etc), but bulky offense runs like mega gallade and fast bulky mons now. Togekiss is a threat if it gets to +2, but a lot of teams will be able to stop it from getting +2.
Togekiss also checks some of the meta. SubCoil/DD Zygarde is one of the best late game win conditions, and togekiss can stop it if it only runs dual stab. Haxarous now has to run poison jab as a coverage move (to hit fairies anyway), so it allows things like forry to be more viable by switch stalling if you get a toxic or something on it.
The most OP thing in the tier would probably be mega-altaria (imo). Everything else I think is easily checked by the tools we have in UU.
now if we could only have victini back to help check some of these big fucking threat...
Likewise, I have been toying around with Mence and Volc. Volc is great because it doesn't allow for florges to keep coming in for free, but it is still beaten by a lot of things, ie crobat etc. It is pretty manageable because of bird spam. If it gets +1, it can be a wrap, but scarfers still exist, and even then, fire types completely shit on it if it lacks hp rock. Volc is also beaten by scarf mence which is the best late game scarfer imo. Rocks are really important in this meta, as always, and now more than ever, hazards are key to victory.
Mence is the same story. MixMence is great, but I think the scarf set or subdd is definitely the best. It outspeeds hydregion and haxarous, even at +1 (if scarf), but if it opts to run a non scarf set, it's beaten up because base 100 doesn't mean anything anymore (lol ie mega zam, drill)
tl;dr all these big threats that were broken in xy uu seem to be a lot easier to manage now that we have a bunch of megas and such to deal with. plus the meta has evolved :]
Mega altaria is definitely borked. The special set is absolutely savage, and honestly, the dd, heal bell, return, and roost set just destroys so many teams. A lot of the times, if you play perfectly, the person using it will win simply because it can wear down its counters while it can heal up whenever it wants. It's one check would be like bronzong or forrey, but those are handled by a fire type, or really a strong fighting or bulky water. Anger managament is using the most op team of support + mega altaria, and there is almost nothing you can do against it since a.) if you run nido, easily worn down, you have to catch it on the switch, b.) dragon types literally can't touch it unless it runs poison or steel coverage, most of which are garbage moves in any other situations and c.) status doesn't even wear it down because it gets heal bell.
It's combination of speed, bulk, movepool, and how easy it is to support is honestly retarded lol.
Please don't hate me. Here is my rationale:
With mega pidegot, beedrill, staraptor (all balanced in the tier imo), strong, fast u-turn/bird spam is really popular. With that, things like Raikou, Rotom-H, Bronzong, Metagross, and Jirachi are all really good. they check most of the big threats (esp bronzong). Mega Aggron is also really popular atm, since it beats crobat and the like. Things like diance and the like beat togekiss 1v1 unless it relies on paraflinch, but if it's paraflinch, it has to forfeit a better coverage move, recovery, or heal bell.
And old threats like Mega-aero and the nido's still beat the defensive/specially defensive defog sets. The speedy set beats bulky offense (chandelure etc), but bulky offense runs like mega gallade and fast bulky mons now. Togekiss is a threat if it gets to +2, but a lot of teams will be able to stop it from getting +2.
Togekiss also checks some of the meta. SubCoil/DD Zygarde is one of the best late game win conditions, and togekiss can stop it if it only runs dual stab. Haxarous now has to run poison jab as a coverage move (to hit fairies anyway), so it allows things like forry to be more viable by switch stalling if you get a toxic or something on it.
The most OP thing in the tier would probably be mega-altaria (imo). Everything else I think is easily checked by the tools we have in UU.
now if we could only have victini back to help check some of these big fucking threat...
Likewise, I have been toying around with Mence and Volc. Volc is great because it doesn't allow for florges to keep coming in for free, but it is still beaten by a lot of things, ie crobat etc. It is pretty manageable because of bird spam. If it gets +1, it can be a wrap, but scarfers still exist, and even then, fire types completely shit on it if it lacks hp rock. Volc is also beaten by scarf mence which is the best late game scarfer imo. Rocks are really important in this meta, as always, and now more than ever, hazards are key to victory.
Mence is the same story. MixMence is great, but I think the scarf set or subdd is definitely the best. It outspeeds hydregion and haxarous, even at +1 (if scarf), but if it opts to run a non scarf set, it's beaten up because base 100 doesn't mean anything anymore (lol ie mega zam, drill)
tl;dr all these big threats that were broken in xy uu seem to be a lot easier to manage now that we have a bunch of megas and such to deal with. plus the meta has evolved :]
Mega altaria is definitely borked. The special set is absolutely savage, and honestly, the dd, heal bell, return, and roost set just destroys so many teams. A lot of the times, if you play perfectly, the person using it will win simply because it can wear down its counters while it can heal up whenever it wants. It's one check would be like bronzong or forrey, but those are handled by a fire type, or really a strong fighting or bulky water. Anger managament is using the most op team of support + mega altaria, and there is almost nothing you can do against it since a.) if you run nido, easily worn down, you have to catch it on the switch, b.) dragon types literally can't touch it unless it runs poison or steel coverage, most of which are garbage moves in any other situations and c.) status doesn't even wear it down because it gets heal bell.
It's combination of speed, bulk, movepool, and how easy it is to support is honestly retarded lol.
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Ive been running a Beedrill/Quagsire/Zong core and its handling most of thr new threats pretty well. Beedrill definitely underrated atm, but i can definitely see it rising quickly.
Does anybody else know if Beedrills Poison Jab can cleanly KO Mega Altaria? Damage calc is down and I havemt had the chance to put Beedrill to the test against mrga Altaria
Does anybody else know if Beedrills Poison Jab can cleanly KO Mega Altaria? Damage calc is down and I havemt had the chance to put Beedrill to the test against mrga Altaria
On the Diancie, I assume youre using HP Fire for steel types, but Diancie now gets Earth Power from tutors. Earth Power is the superior option, just a small nitpick though.
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 360-424 (123.7 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 360-424 (101.9 - 120.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Altaria: 264-312 (74.7 - 88.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It does, even with Jolly (which is necessary to outspeed +1 MAlt). Max defense Alt has a chance of surviving, IIRC, but they're rare (and with rocks damage pre-Mega I believe it will still OHKO).
I've been using Beedrill/SpD Gligar/physically defensive Rotom-H as a VoltTurn core that has been quite fun.
Hp fire hits Bronzong who pretty much lolz diancie
borked (Volcarona) @ Life Orb
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 Def / 20 SpA / 236 Spe
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
So uh i figured out recently that bulkarona sets up on a lot of defensive mons in uu tht cant hit it super effectively. with the added defence evs it can take a hit or 2 quiver and roost up and continue to quiver. it is such a threat after 2 quivers its not even funny. sometimes even after only one. I didnt really recall wht item bulkarona ran so i just slapped a life orb on there. if you guys know a better item for it tht would be appreciated but the extra power is nice. But this thing is deadly..no two ways about it and the speed evs let you outspeed aero at +1. idk how long this thing is gunna stay but im abusing it as long as its here
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 Def / 20 SpA / 236 Spe
Bold Nature
- Quiver Dance
- Roost
- Fiery Dance
- Giga Drain
So uh i figured out recently that bulkarona sets up on a lot of defensive mons in uu tht cant hit it super effectively. with the added defence evs it can take a hit or 2 quiver and roost up and continue to quiver. it is such a threat after 2 quivers its not even funny. sometimes even after only one. I didnt really recall wht item bulkarona ran so i just slapped a life orb on there. if you guys know a better item for it tht would be appreciated but the extra power is nice. But this thing is deadly..no two ways about it and the speed evs let you outspeed aero at +1. idk how long this thing is gunna stay but im abusing it as long as its here
I prefer lum berry so klefki can't prankster t-wave it after it sets up. Usually after klef goes down this thing can pull a sweep. Also, HP water is a nice alternative to giga drain because it hits fire types and earo, at the cost of hitting water types super effectively.
Do you guys really think Volc is that broken? With Bird Spam, it's really hard to get it to set up. Even when it does set up, fire types still revenge in pretty easily (bar hp rock/water). Klef can twave it (lack lum). Blissey hard walls it and can status it to death.
The biggest killer is mega-altaria
The biggest killer is mega-altaria
While I agree with Mega-Alt, the reason Volcarona is so strong (Note that i said strong, not broken) is because of all those little "except if it has this" mindsets. Volcarona's strengths come in its slight set variations, and you dont know if your "check" is really a check at all. Klefki can T-Wave it, but if it happens to be lum, theyre screwed. Chandy can handle Volc, but not if it has HP Water/HP Rock. Volcarona's "brokenness" comes from its potential, as there is no Best Set.
Isn't the point of variations to beat would be counters? I mean, people ran Iron Tail on Mence to take care of faires. People can now run Fire Blast on Nido to beat bronzong.
shrugs
shrugs
Bird spam arguably benefits Volcarona because it can set up on a good portion of the checks to flying types like Jirachi, MAggron, and Rotom-H. It also gets setup opportunities against most of the special walls barring Blissey(which probably isn't that good in a metagame where offense is dominant). I've yet to personally test Volcarona but I had a lot of experience with it last time it was here and the metagame seems like its more beneficial to it now then before because of the offensive trend making its counters less common.
Yeah, if Volc is paired up with flying types, it could be good. But you'll be stacking weakness together + bird spam against u is no bueno. Staraptor just ravages teams that try to let volc set up.
I've been finding Spikes stacking offense very good in the meta. Not with Scolipede as the Spikes user, but rather as a sweeper that absolutely smashes the opponent with 2+ layers of Spikes (and Stealth Rock if you can get it). Sadly, Mega Lopunny does very well against these teams, sporting a good chance to KO Froslass with Fake Out + Return, and if running 160 HP EVs or under (to be honest I don't know why you would but I had spare time an a damage calculator) Lopunny will always KO. Sadly, unless you play really well against it (or set up Scolipede before it comes in and take the Fake Out afterwards or you pack Mega Aerodactyl and mega on the same turn and Aerial Ace), Lopunny ruins these teams. Not even Crobat can take much from it: 252 Atk Lopunny Return vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 208-246 (55.7 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery. Also, a well played Klefki does well against these teams because Prankster Thunder Wave is a bitch to deal with (literally every single Pokemon I used except maybe Sableye hates it). However, Spikes do help a lot against Mega Aggron (nothing really takes it 1v1 but it gets worn down easily), Blissey, Chesnaught, SUICUNE, Forretress, and other walls. Like I said, some good Pokemon include Froslass, Sableye (obvious), Scolipede, Crobat, and Mega Aerodactyl. Mega Sharpedo works well in theory, but I have yet to test it.
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Why not use Jump Kick or High Jump Kick? That hits Froslass super-effectively.
EDIT: Or Drain Punch, that nearly OHKOs by itself.
EDIT: Or Drain Punch, that nearly OHKOs by itself.
Good point with drain punch and jump kick, but I believe high jump kick has a higher chance to miss than return and fake out does to not KO. Also you can't OHKO outright because of focus sash.
Yeah, Earth Power is an option, but as previously stated, HP Fire hits Bronzong. It's also nice to have for Forretress. More of a preference on what you want, but that wasn't my point; the point was that Mega-Diancie needs to be thrown out of UU as soon as possible. It's absurdly strong and has no business in this tier.
Wouldn't Klefki be a better setter considering that it isn't screwed over by MLop and can guarantee a layer or two of spikes given its typing + ability as well as provide screens and act as a clutch with priority Thunder wave. I am honestly seeing a lot more hazard stacking offense teams that utilize this in conjunction with SR Azelf, and it does so with such ease thanks to Klefki. Even if you spin there is still the issue of outstanding screens he has likely set up, so defogging would be your best option but considering hard hitters like Staraptor, the new megas, and SD Scolo that would love to set up it won't be too easy.
I honestly thought Klefki was somewhat harmless until with this current metagame with so many mons capable of utilizing the ease of support he grants them, new megas/Raptor/Scol, I'm somewhat iffy regarding his status now. Sure I can handle em with prediction but... it is frightening to say at the least how methodically easy it can set up. Priority TW is just icing on the cake.
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Machi i didnt even know it got knock off until you you made that post LOL but uh, I don't really have a preference, since as you mentioned, Knockers hits Ghost-types like Chand and cripples mons reliant on their item (although arguably, mons with tect are annoying for Choiced users to face, even if Beedrill is frail asf), but Drill Run hits Chand anyway, as well as the Nidos, Keys, and anything else I'm probably forgetting (although neither do shit to defensive mons lol). It's up to preference tbh.
I also didn't think I'd be hopping on the Bronzong hype train, but I have to say, with all the Fairy-types in this meta it has really exceeded my expectations. It has a pretty nice defensive typing in the metagame, walling the aformentioned Fairy-types as well as non Fire Blast Nidos, DD Zyg, Flygon, etc (although admittedly Krook + Altaria is fucking everywhere in this meta), making it a fairly reliable SRer, and isn't too passive either with Gyro Ball, considering how fast this current metagame is.
I also didn't think I'd be hopping on the Bronzong hype train, but I have to say, with all the Fairy-types in this meta it has really exceeded my expectations. It has a pretty nice defensive typing in the metagame, walling the aformentioned Fairy-types as well as non Fire Blast Nidos, DD Zyg, Flygon, etc (although admittedly Krook + Altaria is fucking everywhere in this meta), making it a fairly reliable SRer, and isn't too passive either with Gyro Ball, considering how fast this current metagame is.
So, what do folks think about Doublade in the current meta? Doublade is about the best counter there is to Staraptor and does well against threats like MAltaria, too. Krook is a problem, but CB Pursuit barely scratches him (although CB EQ will 2HKO).
I haven't tried him out yet, or even seen him used since the ORAS drops, but I've been thinking about giving him a shot for a while.
I haven't tried him out yet, or even seen him used since the ORAS drops, but I've been thinking about giving him a shot for a while.
It's only a soft check for mega altaria, as specially based sets with hyper voice and notably fire blast easily dispose of doublade.
I will say it does a great job of countering staraptor, which not many Pokemon can do.
Good point - I've mostly been seeing physical Altaria sets on the ladder, but I actually kind of prefer the bulky special sets, thanks to the coolness of Pixilate Hyper Voice and that fun defensive typing. That said, even 252+ MAlt doesn't quite OHKO with Fire Blast (it tops at 99% against the 240/16 standard SD Doublade), while Gyro Ball deals 96.9-114% to Modest Alt and has a guaranteed OHKO against Timid Alt. Still can't switch in, so I'm not saying it's a great counter, but it can beat offensive special Altaria one on one.
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Yeah, I agree with that. This is why mega altaria is so good is because you have to be very careful about what you switch in depending on what set it runs, as in this instance doublade hard walls the DD sets while gets roasted by fire blast from the special set.
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