Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[Blastgang]

What about Honchkrow? it's at least a C rank...

 

[AM]

Gliscor has one thing over other defensive pokemon: taunt

This might not seem like much but it opens up many support options for it. It allows it to literally stallbreak slower defensive mons, prevent set up and defog, etc

And like you've mentioned, Gliscor can run many sets. It's unpredictable to and the fact that it can perform many roles can allow it to fill multiple niches. Outclassed isn't really the right word, as Gliscor has its own advantages in that department.

Not to mention it's good defensive stats and typing, excellent recovery still make it a good check to some attackers.

A rank seems fine imo

The problem is that its stall-breaker set has lost value in a meta where your average stall build is not concerned with Gliscor as a whole, one of the reasons it was able to thrive in XY a bit better. The only defoggers it really slows down are ones that don't threaten it such as Skarmory, Mandibuzz, and to a highly lesser extent Scizor. Empoleon and the Lati Twins are pretty common Defoggers you can see now a days that are able to threaten Gliscor so in the former case you run the risk of getting hit with Scald and in the latter case you'll be getting hit with Draco Meteor most of the time for heavy damage. The unpredictably is somewhat exaggerated because EQ, Knock Off, Taunt, Roost, Toxic, Acrobatics, Substitute, U-Turn, Stealth Rock and in some rare cases Agility/SD Pass for quick pass teams is for the most part all you have to prepare for in terms of what they usually run. In regards to offense there's just a lot that can immediately threaten Gliscor such as Sub/Heal Bell M-Altaria, M-Gyarados, Greninja, Thundurus, Keldeo, M-Sceptile, Char-Y, Kyurem-B and more which are found pretty much on any offensive team now a days if not multiple of these on one build. Positives due include being a check to Sand Offense on non Ice Beam TTar/Hippowdon + Excadrill cores, being able to to check Bisharp a bit better than Lando-T would due to not activating Defiant, and having a Spikes immunity with reliable recovery with the latter being something that Lando-T lacks. A is pretty high at this point and it should drop.

 

[psVoltage]

What about Honchkrow? it's at least a C rank...

I think that Honchkrow is worth talking about for around C or B also. It pairs quite well with RP Diancie, mostly because of type synergy and Honch being a really good pursuit user and cleaner with Moxie.

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon.

It would be in competition with all the other pursuit users, weak to stealth rocks, and gets worn down fast. but its niche would be wallbreaking for a certain pokemon and being the best moxie user in the teir by far. Sort of like how people were talking about Dragalge + Gyarados

 

[boltsandbombers]

I think that Honchkrow is worth talking about for around C or B also. It pairs quite well with RP Diancie, mostly because of type synergy and Honch being a really good pursuit user and cleaner with Moxie.

B rank? I honestly cannot see Honchkrow being on the same level of viability as Mega Beedrill (no pun intended), Mega Camerupt, Kabutops, Klefki (which should rise but I'll explain later), Weavile, Chesnaught, and others. Yeah, it has a really strong attack and Sucker + Pursuit to trap things, but it is so ridiculously frail and its typing is just meh.

 

[psVoltage]

B rank? I honestly cannot see Honchkrow being on the same level of viability as Mega Beedrill, Mega Camerupt, Kabutops, Klefki (which should rise but I'll explain later), Weavile, Chesnaught, and others. Yeah, it has a really strong attack and Sucker + Pursuit to trap things, but it is so ridiculously frail and its typing is just meh.

I edited my post seconds before you quoted it, It really fits more in C rank I realized. It has notable flaws and requires a bit of support but It does its job pretty well.

 

[theV8man]

Good morning Smogonites. Although we are currently discussing A/A- ranked Pokemon, I really couldn't wait to post about this magnificent specimen. Seeing as we're not discussing B ranked Pokemon yet, feel free to ignore this post. I'll simply reply to myself like a loser with this post later. Now, let me explain why this glorious crustacean should go up a rank.

In X/Y, Crawdaunt was unfortunately and unfairly denied it's B+ status. The main complaint was that despite its ability to cream-blast every Pokemon out there, it was slow and frail. Now, we are in ORAS. There are a lot of new kids on the block to watch out for this time around. Let's take a look at some of these "threats," shall we?​

Mega Slowbro: 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 224-265 (56.8 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Sableye: 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 182-216 (59.8 - 71%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mega Diancie: 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 218-260 (90.4 - 107.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO

Mega Beedrill: 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Beedrill: 237-281 (87.4 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

What a man, and he's got the calcs to prove it! Now let's look at the trends of the metagame. Mega Venusaur usage is dying down, and just about every stall team is Sableye/Slowbro based. Based on my standard level mathematical inductions, you can use SD to OHKO EVERYTHING ON STALL.

...so why am I not nominating this thing to a higher rank than B+? Well, the thing is I was lying. There is ONE thing Crawdaunt can't 2HKO. Yes, you heard that right. Not even Crawdaunt. Gamefreak clearly decided that they had to make an immovable object to wall this unstoppable force. And that object is ...Mega Altaria. Now, while Crawdaunt manages to 2HKO non-defensive variants, defensive variants at most take 33% damage for Crabhammer. So while Crawdaunt's viability has increased a lot this gen because of its ability to tear past popular stall mons and make faster threats run to their moms because of its Aquatic Jet, it did lose something because of the uncommon but occasionally used stall Mega Altaria sets. Crawdaunt is also, of course, still a legendary Pokemon to use on TR.

Crawdaunt B => B+
​

 

[heritage]

About Honchcrow: It faces a lot of competition with Bisharp. Bisharp is much more threatening to the Lati twins, has a better typing and bulk, hits harder, has Defiant and has Swords Dance, which Honchcrow wishes it had. Honchcrow, however, has Moxie, reliable recovery if needed, and better ways to deal with stall since Brave Bird hits like a freaking truck. However, it's really frail and lacks priority outside of Sucker Punch. It's also very slow, meaning things like Talonflame will still outspeed with their priority.
However, it has gotten a lot better in ORAS. (I actually got swept by one the other day). It faces a whole lot of competition with basically every set-up sweeper. It's really on the level of Salamence (regular, not mega lol), so I really don't think it deserves anything higher than D. It needs a lot more team support than Bisharp, but it's viable in its own rights on certain teams.

 

[Flarowak]

I would like to once again push for Mega Altaria to A+. This thing is just amazing, and has so many usable sets now. Although DD sets are the most common and probably the best, there is a pretty solid cleric set, a special attacker set that can wreck shop if you aren't ready for it. Great bulk, good attack stats, amazing typing and ability with spammable moves to go with it. It can do just about anything you want it to tbh, and it does it very well. It's easily one of the best tanks in the game, and I think it deserves to move up.

 

[G-Von]

I agree Mega Altaria needs to get bumped up to at least A+. I have been using it quite frequently on a very weird balance team with SubCM Chandelure and it sets up on just about any physical attacker because of Cotton Guard. I previously ran a more specially defensive spread but I decided outrunning Greninja after one DD was far more important. Let me just show you the set I have been running with success.
Altaria@Altarianite
EV's: 248 HP/224 Spe/36 SpD
Trait: Natural Cure
Careful Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Cotton Guard
-Roost
-Frustration

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. +3 248 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 120-144 (33.9 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. +3 248 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 135-164 (38.2 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill Poison Jab vs. +3 248 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 104-124 (29.4 - 35.1%) -- 7.5% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. +3 248 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 179-213 (50.7 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
BUT
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. +6 248 HP / 0 Def Altaria: 112-135 (31.7 - 38.2%) -- 95.8% chance to 3HKO

These calcs are based on these pokemon switching into M-Altaria because honestly there's no way in hell Altaria should be switching into these threats. The only thing that is moderately scary is Toxicroak since with a bit of prior damage and a pair of high rolls, Altaria could lose. However, if Toxicroak missed than its night night for the poisonous frog. Crits are also the bane of M-Altaria's existence for obvious reasons. The one thing this set misses out on a lot would be Substitute to be immune from status moves like Will-O-Wisp, especially with Rotom-W everywhere, but then you would have to decide on dropping Roost or Cotton Guard. Roost is necessary for sub variants and Cotton Guard gives you the ability to stay in on every physical attacker and gives them a complete bitch of a time destroying the sub.

 

[SaberSeven]

I would like to lobby for Dragonite to drop to A- or B+. The ORAS meta hasn't been very kind to it in some regards. ORAS gave us Mega Altaria who is more versatile and has a MUCH better typing, Mega Sableye who can burn Dragonite and take its hits for DAYS with its recovery and 50/125/115 defenses, Mega Slowbro can burn it with Scald and tank its hits with its MASSIVE base 180 defense, Mega Sceptile outspeeds Jolly Dragonite after 1 DD and (provided it has taken prior damage) can OHKO Dragonite with Dragon Pulse, Mega Lopunny can beat Dragonite as well with a combination of Fake Out & Ice Punch (You can use Fake Out whether or not Dragonite has taken damage or not) and Banded E-Speed doesn't OHKO, and although they don't outspeed Dragonite before Mega-Evolving & get ruined by Banded Earthquake, Mega Metagross & Mega Diancie after Mega Evolving can Ice Punch & Moonblast Dragonite respectively for an OHKO after breaking its Multiscale. Even some past threats that are still very popular in today's metagame handle Dragonite well. Charizard X still outclasses it, Skarmory can avoid the 2HKO from Banded Fire Punch and take on the rest of its movepool very well, Ferrothorn can deal some Iron Barbs damage that breaks Dragonite's Multiscale and can even paralyze it with Thunder Wave. Landorus-Therian's popularity is at an all time high with all the new toys the meta has to give us and can Intimidate Dragonite, Knock Off any item it may be wielding, and still eat its hits up nicely. Greninja can still OHKO Dragonite through Multiscale with Ice Beam (but it'll have to take a burly hit from ExtremeSpeed). Azumarill is immune to its Dragon type attacks and can wreck it with a Play Rough. Same case with Clefable except she can Moonblast Dragonite into an oblivion. If you dig deeper into the rankings, Kyurem-B outspeeds it and hits other Pokemon harder. Alomomola is another bulky water that Dragonite has trouble with as it can gain back health with Wish/Regenerator & can burn it with Scald. Rhyperior & Hippowdon can eat Dragonite's hits and can either KO it with Rock Blast/Ice Punch or Slack off the damage respectively. Weavile can deal quad effective damage to Dragonite with Icicle Crash & Ice Shard (but it'd have to try to eat an E-Speed). Dragonite is a powerful Pokemon, but the only set that isn't outclassed by anything is the Choice Banded set (which outside the use of ExtremeSpeed, is rather slow in this metagame). Dragonite also requires some support to get rid of the Steel types that hinder it from Pokemon like Magnezone (which some run Shed Shell to escape its Magnet Pull). Dragonite also needs Rapid Spin/Defog support to keep its Multiscale intact and take various hits. In addition, most teams run about 3 or so members to deal with it and render it ineffective.

tl;dr: The metagame has not been a kind one towards Dragonite and I think Dragonite should fall to A- or B+ at worst.

 

[BlackGreninja]

Hey everyone :)
I've been playing Pokemon since RBY time... Playing Competitive since the very beginnings of the Simulators.
Never really got anywhere close to the top of the ladder but I've usually had 1 or 2 decent Teams each gen.

Now since I never used the Simulator obsessively, I was never one to really "break down" a new gen in just a few weeks.
That's why I checked out this list. So as I was looking through it and reached A-... I stopped.

How are there so many Pokes in the top (real) Tier (-> A), that I've never seen on ladder above 1k?
I mean yes Pokemon is very complex, flexible and the meta should not dictate your choices too much!
But does that mean that most people are just stupid for not using those Pokes that are supposedly extremely strong at one or very good at a number of aspects in battle?
Now Jirachi I always liked... and I guess it still does it's job as well as it did before.

But didnt weather teams kinda die in OU since the hardcore nerf of the inducing abilities?
Other then Sand ofcourse since it just goes extremely well with stall in general and has a more then decent setter.
And YES, Rain is probably the next viable Weather competitive wise. But I just don't see it compete right now :/
And believe me I almost played nothing BUT Rain in Gen 4 (or was it 5?) so I'd really love to see it make a comeback ^^

And then I see Mega-Dinobird / Upside-down-tree. And I really like those pokes too! But if we take a look at the top of the list here.
There is about a dozen candidates, that overflow the ladder atm... to a point where u don't see a team without at least one of them.
And most of those just screw the mentioned megas really hard ;(
So why would i pick those over say X/Y-Zard or one of the GAGA-(BAN ME PLEASE)s?
Especially Sceptile, since I feel like the new Defog mechanic let the Birds out of the cage and the Fire out from HELL this gen!!

Please enlighten me with your wisdom on how the mentioned pokes / strategies can keep up with the current meta :)

Anyways, love the list in general and can't wait to see what this gen evolves into ;)

 

[Of Moose & Men]

And then I see Mega-Dinobird / Upside-down-tree. And I really like those pokes too! But if we take a look at the top of the list here.
There is about a dozen candidates, that overflow the ladder atm... to a point where u don't see a team without at least one of them.
And most of those just screw the mentioned megas really hard ;(
So why would i pick those over say X/Y-Zard or one of the GAGA-(BAN ME PLEASE)s?
Especially Sceptile, since I feel like the new Defog mechanic let the Birds out of the cage and the Fire out from HELL this gen!!

Please enlighten me with your wisdom on how the mentioned pokes / strategies can keep up with the current meta :)

Anyways, love the list in general and can't wait to see what this gen evolves into ;)

Firstly, Welcome to Smogon! :)

I can't speak on weather outside of sand, so I'll simply talk about the portion I've quoted.

Mega Aerodactyl has been placed so high because Birdspam is very common in OU thanks to the influx of heavily offensive Flying type Pokemon as well over all being an exceptional offensive presence. Aerodactyl acted as a very hard counter to many of these capable of switching into the expected Brave Bird and either scaring it out, or outright killing it with Stone Edge. As far as upside down tree, I'm not sure who you're referring to unless it's mSceptile, in which case, it's a huge offensive threat, although many are "more threatening" it doesn't take away from its power. It's amazing speed coupled with its matching Special attack stat make it a very formidable Pokemon.

AS far as using X pokemon over Y Pokemon, it's all down to personal preference. Not everyone wants to build around ZardX, but they want to use a viable Mega. Well, this is where they come to see what is viable and how it holds up in the current meta game.

 

[firehusky]

lol what's a GAGA-(BAN ME PLEASE)?

Okay, to not make this a one liner, but to answer your question, weather teams did not really die out, except for sun teams. Rain and sand are still perfectly viable, since 5-7 turns are pretty much all you need to clean up an opponents team. Rain definitely was buffed a little bit in ORAS, because of mega swampert. Being one of the few swift swimmers that are immune to thundurus's prankster t-wave is super important, and it has a decent attack stat, and in rain, waterfall is boosted too. Sun teams aren't any good now, because zard-y is the best setter, and most of the time, it sets it up and then starts wrecking everything, it doesn't need a strategy based around sweeping with chlorophyll because it can already wallbreak and clean very well just by itself, leading to more teams based around zard y, than teams based around sun sweeping. Also, zard y cannot hold a weather stone (forgot what it was called), whereas politoed and ttar and hippodown can hold their respective weather stones, giving teammates a longer time to sweep.

 

[HolyAvatar]

lol what's a GAGA-(BAN ME PLEASE)?

I suppose he's talking about Mega Gardevoir/Gallade. Both start with GA and have truly outrageous looks.

Megabro should at least be A+. He's not just a stall mon, he also does a lot of work for balanced teams in a tank set "à la MegaVenu" but much more reliably. It has a retarded Gamefreak era -is it over though?- movepool. It includes:
-Scald
-Ice beam
-Fireblast/flamethrower
-Grass knot
-Psyshock/Psychic
-Focus blast
-Shadow ball
This basically means unpredictable/team tailored coverage.

And of course reliable recovery in slack off.

It can avoid 2hko after rocks from both specs Keldeo and Char X and walls (and kills) a lot of things like Scarf Tran/landoT/Terrakion/KyuB, Banded Talonflame etc .
248 HP / 112 Def / 64 SpA / 84 SpD Bold Nature is doing wonders for me.

 

[firehusky]

W-w-what???
Mega Gardevoir does NOT have outrageous looks!
It's one of the most elegant pokemon ever!

 

[FieryTyrant]

I'm actually playing around currently to see what I want to nominate, but in the meantime;

Why is there no S- or S+? I know we're supposed to be talking about A- and A right now and I applogize if this is a stupid question.

The reason I ask is because some Pokemon in A+ are just better in almost every conpared to the other A+ Pokemon. And although some may not be S rank, I feel they should still be shown as better than A+. I'll use Megazard X and Megallade as my prime examples. I realize the opportunity cost, but even with that taken into account they're among the greatest OU mega evolutions and they sweep all but one or two of the A+ Pokemon. They're not too hard to use either and they offer quite a bit of flexibility. I also think that if an S- rank were created it would be where Megagross went because I don't really see it being above Megazard X or Megallade, and I recall many people specifically stating that Megagross isn't as clean a sweeper as Megazard X is. This is just an idea and I'm sure it's been brought up before, but with all of these new mega evolutions and a rapidly changing metagame I just feel some Pokemon in A+ deserve recognition as better than that, even if they may not be "S rank worthy." I also have a few nominations in mind, with that aside, as I stated earlier, I'm messing around to see what I want to nominate to drop and rise within A and A-, should have a list by tomorrow night.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

I'm actually playing around currently to see what I want to nominate, but in the meantime;

Why is there no S- or S+? I know we're supposed to be talking about A- and A right now and I applogize if this is a stupid question.

The reason I ask is because some Pokemon in A+ are just better in almost every conpared to the other A+ Pokemon. And although some may not be S rank, I feel they should still be shown as better than A+. I'll use Megazard X and Megallade as my prime examples. I realize the opportunity cost, but even with that taken into account they're among the greatest OU mega evolutions and they sweep all but one or two of the A+ Pokemon. They're not too hard to use either and they offer quite a bit of flexibility. I also think that if an S- rank were created it would be where Megagross went because I don't really see it being above Megazard X or Megallade, and I recall many people specifically stating that Megagross isn't as clean a sweeper as Megazard X is. This is just an idea and I'm sure it's been brought up before, but with all of these new mega evolutions and a rapidly changing metagame I just feel some Pokemon in A+ deserve recognition as better than that, even if they may not be "S rank worthy." I also have a few nominations in mind, with that aside, as I stated earlier, I'm messing around to see what I want to nominate to drop and rise, should have a list by tomorrow night.

The reason we don't do S- or S+ is because in a well-balanced meta, they become very subjective. When we start debating about who's S+ or who's S-, we tend to run around in circles and never get anything productive done, such as seeing if lower-ranked mons have improved or worsened, which tends to be more important since usually the lower a mon's ranking, the greater the fluctuation in viability due to meta changes. Mons in S, on the other hand, tend to define the meta, so they are very rarely affected by meta changes. Most of us could argue that S ranked mon Alpha is way better than S ranked mon Beta until the cows come home, but usually the difference in viability is too small for it too matter.

 

[NotSoClutch]

Just out of curiosity, what makes mega slowbro an A ranked mon instead A+ or S? It seems to have a lot of versatility as a wall, sweeper, and tank all in two sets. It walls just about every physical attacker in existence barring a few choice banded/mega Pokemon that hit it super effectively, but the amount of Pokemon it walls for balance is astounding even without investing in physical defense at all. It's ability to wall things like lando-T, mega Metagross, Azumaril, Charizard X, Altaria, mega Gallade, most mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Dragonite, Excadrill, Lopunny, Mamoswine, Mega Medicham, Terrakion, Kyube, diggersby, M-Aero, Keldeo, etc. is astounding and really useful if I do say so myself. I haven't honestly been playing as much as I normally do recently, so I may not have the best point of view for this, but it just seems like such an amazing Pokemon that I think might be undervalued right now. In the few times I've been able to play ORAS OU, Slowbro has been an essential part of every match for me regardless of set.

 

[Cloud_Nine987]

I think it's time for Magnezone to fall to B+ or B. I remember the Pinsir and Magnezone core from back in XY, and though I never played against it, I heard it was pretty great. Magnezone's niche is to trap and kill steel-types. And it certainly does, to an extent - but outside of its niche, it ends up being not-so-great. The main reason why I think Magnezone needs to fall is because of choice items. There are two items that Magnezone holds in OU - Choice Scarf and Choice Specs. With the Choice Scarf, and maximum investment and a positive nature, it reaches an unimpressive base 360 speed. Greninja still outspeeds it, and with all of the fast new megas and the addition of new megas that can boost their stats (Altaria, Diancie, etc.), that's not good speed at all. But it's necessary to, for example, avoid Superpower from Scizor and OHKO with Hidden Power Fire. Choice Specs is the other item it holds. With it, it increases its base 130 Sp. Attack stat to a great 591. While this sounds good on paper, Magnezone fails to hit anything hard enough outside of its STABs, and sacrifices that extra speed which now allows Pokemon to KO it that would normally be outsped.

Another issue with magnezone is that he's just so easy to wear down. He has no reliable recovery and no room for Leftovers. Ferrothorns usually resist Magnezone if they actually get trapped, by running Leech Seed + Protect. Especially if Mag is holding a Choice Scarf, HP Fire does a pathetic 58-68.1%...which is even worse when you remember Ferro's 4x weak to fire. Yeah, it has no STAB, but I honestly don't think Mag has the right STAB types to do its job effectively. If it somehow had a fire type, that'd be a different story...

The metagame has prepared for Magnezone. The paranoia of trapping has risen, and with that rise has come Shed Shell Skarmory and Ferrothorn, which completely ruin Magnezone's niche, turning it into dead weight that can maybe kinda kill a few things maybe if you're lucky. Magnezone is much too slow to revenge kill anything, even with the Choice Scarf. It just seems like with all these flaws, Magnezone cannot be A-.

 

[NotSoClutch]

I think it's time for Magnezone to fall to B+ or B. I remember the Pinsir and Magnezone core from back in XY, and though I never played against it, I heard it was pretty great. Magnezone's niche is to trap and kill steel-types. And it certainly does, to an extent - but outside of its niche, it ends up being not-so-great. The main reason why I think Magnezone needs to fall is because of choice items. There are two items that Magnezone holds in OU - Choice Scarf and Choice Specs. With the Choice Scarf, and maximum investment and a positive nature, it reaches an unimpressive base 360 speed. Greninja still outspeeds it, and with all of the fast new megas and the addition of new megas that can boost their stats (Altaria, Diancie, etc.), that's not good speed at all. But it's necessary to, for example, avoid Superpower from Scizor and OHKO with Hidden Power Fire. Choice Specs is the other item it holds. With it, it increases its base 130 Sp. Attack stat to a great 591. While this sounds good on paper, Magnezone fails to hit anything hard enough outside of its STABs, and sacrifices that extra speed which now allows Pokemon to KO it that would normally be outsped.

Another issue with magnezone is that he's just so easy to wear down. He has no reliable recovery and no room for Leftovers. Ferrothorns usually resist Magnezone if they actually get trapped, by running Leech Seed + Protect. Especially if Mag is holding a Choice Scarf, HP Fire does a pathetic 58-68.1%...which is even worse when you remember Ferro's 4x weak to fire. Yeah, it has no STAB, but I honestly don't think Mag has the right STAB types to do its job effectively. If it somehow had a fire type, that'd be a different story...

The metagame has prepared for Magnezone. The paranoia of trapping has risen, and with that rise has come Shed Shell Skarmory and Ferrothorn, which completely ruin Magnezone's niche, turning it into dead weight that can maybe kinda kill a few things maybe if you're lucky. Magnezone is much too slow to revenge kill anything, even with the Choice Scarf. It just seems like with all these flaws, Magnezone cannot be A-.

Too many Pokemon need ferrothorn and skarmory gone to justify moving magnezone down and it's actually still a decent Pokemon after it has done it's job too. The specs set is often bulky enough to take hits and slow turn out to a revenge killer and with the right investment can even trap and KO mega Scizor without a problem for Clefable and non-cotton guard altaria. If reliance on choice items isn't your style, sub ebelt and sub lefties are both viable sets for taking out skarm and ferro while maintaining momentum in a match. Like I said in a previous post, I haven't played too much of the metagame this time around, but mag is as deadly as ever right now from what I've seen.

 

[henry]

Hi o.o thought I'd post my impressions on A/ A- ranks as I haven't done anything in this thread. I'll try to keep each explanation concise. Sorry if I'm repeating anyone, as I haven't been actively reading thread. Whatever I don't mention I believe deserves its current rank/ will very soon.

Things I'm unsure of/ haven't had enough experience as of yet (cannot decide whether to move up or down)

Mamoswine
Aerodactyl
Diancie (believe it should be A+ as of now but wary of how meta will treat it)
Manectric

Altaria (Mega) A ->A+: Altaria can perform a ridiculous amount of roles in a dragon dance sweeper, special attacker, cleric etc. It has the ability to lure in its counters (Heatran and Skarmory) of commonly used sets and kill them with earthquake and fire blast respectively. Whether it will be as effective down the line as it is now is unlikely, but as of now Altaria is a massive threat for a variety of teams and playstyles depending on which set you choose, all of which are viable.

Dragonite A -> A-: Dragonite's two main sets, dragon dance and choice band, have both fallen a bit in viability. It doesn't have many opportunities to set up with Dragon dance in such an offensively paced meta, and its cb set also suffered, although banded extremespeed is still very useful and is still threatening.

Gyarados (Mega) A -> A+: Gyara's insane bulk, ability, typing and addition to a well-needed stab move in crunch have all benefited it in this meta. Crunch is extremely useful in killing Slowbro, one of its premier counters in xy. It's sub/DD set has the ability to completely wall and set up on Sableye, a massive pain in ORAS as of now, and can still check extremely annoying threats like Bisharp.

Gliscor A -> A-/ B+: Gliscor, although still not a bad pokemon, faces much more offensive pressure this time around, being unable to check many new physical threats in Gallade, Metagross, and Altaria, as well as having much more difficulty stallbreaking with Mega-Sableye.

Slowbro (Mega) A -> A+: Megabro initially received insane buzz, then died down quickly after it was released. From what I've seen, people have been using it incorrectly, assuming it can take on special threats without taking any boosts, crippling it for future use. Not only does its non-mevo get free health on switches, it's mevo's ability prevents critical hits, allowing you to stack up stat boosters like acid armor and calm mind, making it almost impossible to kill without status. In addition, it can run an offensive cm set, as well as a set similar to crocune. Whatever you choose, megabro is an insane threat and extremely difficult to deal with when used correctly.

Heracross (Mega) A -> A-: What I thought was actually overrated in XY, mega heracross has gotten much less viable in ORAS. It is obviously extremely strong and has great coverage, but it's simply too slow to deal with most teams, although it will still be an indefinite pain for stall (which is also extremely overrated in ORAS)

Mew A -> A-: Not quite as useless as it appears to be, mew has definitely decreased in viability in its stallbreaker set due to Mega-Sableye. However, Mew is fast, bulky and has a unique typing along with an extremely large movepool, and would be downright wrong to remove from the A ranks.
Venusaur (Mega) A -> A-: Venusaur has taken a huge hit in viability, making it difficult to justify a megastone with Mega-Sableye, Mega-Slowbro and Mega-Altaria common choices for stall, along with Metagross and Gallade breaking through it easily. It is by no means a bad pokemon, but is not as easy to add to your team as it was before in xy.

Medicham (Mega) A -> C+: Medicham was a complete monster in xy, but is almost completely outclassed by the faster Gallade that has access to swords dance and better coverage. I can still see it functioning as a setup-free wallbreaker, considering its HJK is still insane, and has access to two forms of priority.

Manaphy A- -> A: With venu being less of a factor, Manaphy has even more opportunity to shine, having the ability to singlehandedly annihilate stall. It can run a boosting set with scald / coverage move along with tail glow and rain dance, or can also run rest to ensure reliable recovery. Either way, the current stall archetype gets completely destroyed by manaphy, and should not be overlooked in teambuilding.

Sableye (Mega) A- -> A+: I'm sure this has been explained already. It's not ready for S-rank, however.

Sceptile (Mega) A- -> B+: Sceptile is fast, and provides a unique dual stab. Unfortunately, it isn't particularly strong, is very easy to switch into for stall, has weak stab moves and essentially is required to both rely on focus blast and leaf storm (lowers SpA by two stages), as giga drain is simply too weak. It has potential to move back because of how it can deal with offense, but from what I've seen it simply isn't good enough.

I think a lot of people believe scept should stay in A-, but I still don't. It can be easily compared to Manectric (potentially) in the same viability rank. Both scept and mane are fast and strong, with scept being faster and nominally stronger.

However, Manectric has a more useful ability in intimidate, is also immune to t-wave, better coverage, and the ability to gain momentum against stall in volt switch. In addition, Manectric can check a lot of threatening pokemon like talonflame, thundurus and scizor, while scept has extreme trouble switching in on anything.




The way I see it, everything else is where it deserves. Thanks for reading! If you want me to justify why something should stay where it is, just let me know.

 

[Clone]

I just wanna give a few words on Gliscor, as its a mon that seems a bit underestimated.

I was with the majority when ORAS first came in thinking that he was shit, and for a while I held that belief till I made a team with him. Bisharp is a pretty big threat in the Meta atm, taking on a whole slew of things with its Jolly SD set (which is imo his best one, thanks CBB <3). Anyways, Lando T is usually a superior option, and I agree with that wholeheartedly. However, Gliscor has a niche over Lando T in that he can take on Bisharp better. Gliscor, first and foremost, does not give Bisharp a free attack boost. Secondly, Gliscor doesnt really care about Knock Off once Poison Heal has been activated, so he can continue to get passive recovery even after his item has been knocked off, unlike Lando T. This is crucial because Gliscor is less prone to getting worn down than his brother, which gives him more staying power. A set of SR / U-Turn / EQ / Knock Off | Toxic is a perfectly viable set that acts as an alternative to bulky Lando T if Bisharp and excadrill are issues, both of which are pretty big threats.

Now I realize that Gliscor has lost a lot of viability in ORAS, what with the SpDef set and the SubToxic set both being pretty shit, which basically leaves physdef and the bulky SR pivot that I listed above. 7/10 times Lando-T will be a better choice, as Lando has a higher attack, Intimidate, the ability to go offensive (Offensive Gliscor is bad so pls dont use it), and the ability to lure stuff in with an offensive SR set. For these reasons, I suggest putting Gliscor in A- for now. I know its not the B+/B drop that every one wants to see, but I feel that Gliscor's niche at adequately checking the same stuff as defensive landorus t while also handling Bisharp better and not being worn down as easily give Gliscor enough of a niche to be placed among the other A- mons, which include TTar, Politoed, Magnezone, and Kyubes, mons that have specific niches but are generally not used on most teams. In the future I think revisiting Gliscor isnt out of the ballpark, but I think we should give him time before saying that Landorus-T blatantly outclasses him 100%, when I feel thats not the case.

So yeah, Gliscor for A- for now, but possibly lower in the future if his niche dies.

 

[Srn]

Too many Pokemon need ferrothorn and skarmory gone to justify moving magnezone down and it's actually still a decent Pokemon after it has done it's job too. The specs set is often bulky enough to take hits and slow turn out to a revenge killer and with the right investment can even trap and KO mega Scizor without a problem for Clefable and non-cotton guard altaria. If reliance on choice items isn't your style, sub ebelt and sub lefties are both viable sets for taking out skarm and ferro while maintaining momentum in a match. Like I said in a previous post, I haven't played too much of the metagame this time around, but mag is as deadly as ever right now from what I've seen.

Altho it may not be as relevant now, there's also the super cool Air Balloon+Magnet Rise magnezone set that could trap excadrill given a safe switch-in; which was realy cool for something maybe like mttar. Was great before scarf lando-t started picking up and exca usage dropped drastically.

 

[LZH14]

I guess I'll just run down the list briefly with my thoughts.

Altaria (Mega) --> A+: Savage of a DDancer, plenty of utility roles, just really good imo.

Dragonite: --> A-: Sets aren't as great anymore but multiscale is still good, CBESpeed is still a pain in the ass.

Gliscor --> A-: ORAS not very friendly, lot of stuff introduced that Gliscor can't deal with or BS its way through.
Heracross (Mega) --> A-: Still a royal pain in the ass for stall but the speed is not doing it any favors, especially with some of the faster threats that were introduced in ORAS.

Medicham (Mega) --> B-: RIP in pepperonis
Venusaur (Mega) --> A-: I feel like Mega Venusaur just got more stuff in ORAS that tears it to bits while not really getting anything in return but I could be wrong about this.

Sableye (Mega) --> A+: This one's been beaten to death already and I'd basically just be restating everything everyone's already set.

 

[Kurona]

is there any point to saying "Sableye for A+" anymore when alexwolf literally said it's 100% going there