Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

Status
Not open for further replies.

Mr. Hothead

formerly Salt2DaFeds
Can we please stop the arguments about Kyurem-B completely? If you think they're absolutely unviable sets, Salt2DaFeds , take it up with the ones who write it's analysis. This is not the place to discuss it; we just take existing, proven sets as well as possibly new innovative ones (such as the Arcanine and Scarf Voir sets posted earlier) into account.
right when i was making a rebuttal? How dare you!

Ok since im done with arguing on a viability thread (lol?) id probably say Put Kube in B rn and possibly put MAlt to S.

Something i want to talk about: what pokemon gained in the Greninja ban? MAlt did, MMeta did, hell, every attacker did, but I feel like im missing an obvious one...

I definetly agree with bringing Empoleon down to a lower rank, however. He was only used as something to take on Greninja and such and Greninja got kicked above the clouds so hes basically unneeded.
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Cloud nine does not get rid of weather, it only pauses it as long as the Pokemon is in, so it gets wears off opon megaing, besides isn't natural cure prefered?
So what if the weather's still there? You've neutered Zard and you can even set up on it by not Mega Evolving and smacking it with a Normal-type Return, plus it robs weather sweepers of their Speed advantage for a turn since they don't run +Speed natures.

Defensive sets don't even need Natural Cure if they're running Heal Bell for obvious reasons, but being able to switch into non-Icy Wind Keldeo and not fear permanent crippling from a Scald burn is definitely nice.
 
Something i want to talk about: what pokemon gained in the Greninja ban? MAlt did, MMeta did, hell, every attacker did, but I feel like im missing an obvious one...
A ton of fairies - Clefable, Mega Gard, Sylveon etc. ; but this is mostly offset by the fact that Mega Meta is still ever-present and destroys them, not to mention Mega/Scizor.

Talking of Scizor, I might as well sum up the ranks I put forward but were never really argued with. I'd like some feedback if that's aight; reasoning can be found on prior pages.

Sylveon: B- --> B
Gardevoir: Unranked --> D
Scizor: B --> B+
Mega Latias: A --> B-
Mega Heracross: A- --> B-
Mega Manectric: A --> A-
Raikou: B --> A- (or B+)
Mega Medicham: C+ --> C
 
For the record, I've used bulky Mega Altaria with Cloud Nine to check both zards and it sounds amazing in theory. In practice, however, all it does is switch into a Fire Blast, which forces it to use Roost while Zard Y switches out into something that checks Mega Altaria. If you decide to play risky and attack the Zard Y expecting a switch, you're needlessly risking the 3HKO from Fire Blast. If you try to DD you risk getting scared off by one of the many things that isn't threatened by +1 bulky Mega Altaria, and then you won't have enough HP to switch into Zard Y a second time.


Offensive Mega Altaria on the other hand is hardly even a check.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 100-118 (34.3 - 40.5%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 198-233 (68 - 80%)
 

Karxrida

Death to the Undying Savage
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
For the record, I've used bulky Mega Altaria with Cloud Nine to check both zards and it sounds amazing in theory. In practice, however, all it does is switch into a Fire Blast, which forces it to use Roost while Zard Y switches out into something that checks Mega Altaria. If you decide to play risky and attack the Zard Y expecting a switch, you're needlessly risking the 3HKO from Fire Blast. If you try to DD you risk getting scared off by one of the many things that isn't threatened by +1 bulky Mega Altaria, and then you won't have enough HP to switch into Zard Y a second time.


Offensive Mega Altaria on the other hand is hardly even a check.

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Altaria: 100-118 (34.3 - 40.5%) -- 46.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Altaria: 198-233 (68 - 80%)
The same can be said for the Latis switching into Y, but Altaria can't be Pursuit trapped, can actually switch in consistently since it has room for Roost to heal itself, and can kill or cripple some of its checks. So what if it's forced to Roost if it's done its job, which is force Zard Y out (extremely important if Rocks are up) and be one of its few consistent switch-ins?

I'm not saying every set needs to have Cloud Nine, but being able to stop Zard Y from wallbreaking by running a little bulk is pretty impressive.
 
There are a few big differences though. First off, the Latis actually have the means to pose an immediate threat to Zard Y with Draco Meteor and Psyshock. Secondly, Latis have arguably better utility in Defog and they lack an initial SR weakness. The point I'm trying to make is that Altaria isn't a great answer to Charizard Y, because it has a difficult time taking full advantage of the free turn it gets by switching in.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong. I know that Mega Altaria is one of the few things that can switch into any of Zard Y's attacks. It just sucks that it can't really do a whole lot after switching in.
 
Last edited:
Kyurem-B should always go mixed anyways, he is perfectly viable as a Revenge Killer or Wallbreaker, the problem with the first is that as a Revenge Killer there are faster Scarfers who threaten to KO him.

And against Stall it cannot break the premier Stallmon(M-Sableye) unless they are out at the same time, because in the turn he is switching to Sableye it will have a Calm Mind under his belt, it can survive even an Outrage(take into account that I am bringing Outrage since is the most powerful physical move it can realize, but in reality getting locked into Outrage is bad because M-Altaria,Clefable,AgiliGross,etc. get a free turn to set up at least, so it lessens the ability to break M-Sableye even more since it is not a really viable move) next turn and burn him, and just keep pressing recover if he is running LO, if he is not he doesn't do enough damage to it.

So yeah Kyurem-B does incredible absurd damage, the problem is that there are some notorious scarfers that outrun him (or priority mons)against Offense, which could make you lose the momentum, and he cannot come in if M-Sableye is out against Stall which is a huge deal.

I think he is right at +B because he still threatens a good amount of mons, and nothing really can come in safely, his movepool is not horrible, it has Fusion Bolt and Ice Beam for Boltbeam coverage, Earth Power, Draco Meteor, Shadow Ball, Stone Edge and even the not so viable Outrage(cause again Heatran,Metagross,Fairies,M-Crobro,M-Sableye,etc.), outside of Draco Meteor(and even with it) there is no real point in running Ice/Dragon, since Ice is just a much better attacking type in general, which lets him 3 spots to run what you need, not the most extensive movepool in the world but if you compare it to Keldeo it has much more options.


So far:
Kyurem-B --------> B+
Raikou ------------> A-
M-Manectric ------> A-
Serperior --------->B(he could go to B+ since he is really good against Stall, but needs more testing, so B is fine atm)
Clefable ---------->S rank
 
Last edited:
I'd like some feedback if that's aight; reasoning can be found on prior pages.

Sylveon: B- --> B
I have been using a spec sylveon set of

Sylveon @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 32 HP / 252 SpA / 224 Spe
Serious Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Fire]/ Hidden Power [ground]
- Baton Pass

I don't use shadow ball for heatran etc because my team can deal with it (thanks AM ), so baton pass is there for momentum. (I rarely use hp ground because ferrothorn threatens my team more than tran)

The hyper voice in sylveon hits like a truck

232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 123-145 (40.8 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 152-179 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 128-151 (42.5 - 50.1%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 104-123 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

She hits harder than mega gard with the issue being her speed but she gains bulk instead. Sylveon is also an issue for stall, however gard is still the better mon because of it's speed tier.
vs mega slowbro (sry don't know its common set evs)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowbro: 232-274 (58.8 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 87-103 (25.6 - 30.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

vs mega venusaur (defensive)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 160-190 (43.9 - 52.1%) -- 17.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Venusaur: 119-141 (32.6 - 38.7%) -- 99.1% chance to 3HKO

0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 186-218 (54.8 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

vs megsaur (offensive)
252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 232 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur: 119-141 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Sylveon Psyshock vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 214-254 (59.6 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 32 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 248-294 (73.1 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(this calc shows its bulk as it's able to survive a stab super effective sludge bomb from a modest 252 spa megasaur)

I'll skip the sabelye calc as she obviously beats that.

Defeating these 3 stall megas is great from a team that can't slap on mega gardevoir because they have another mega, though you won't get the same effect because of her terrible speed tier, however her bulk lets her be useful versus other types of gameplay.

Can't say anything about her other sets though but I can see her at B.
 
Why Serperior is a solid B at min:

There are people who undervalue Serperior unboosted Leaf Storm, true is not the most powerful attacking move, but it actually does reasonable damage plus the effect of a free Nasty Plot, since the Mega that is usually compared is M-Sceptile lets see how they do in regards of damage.

252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Sceptile Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I compared the 2 most consistent moves they have, true M-Sceptile can use Leaf Storm, but it only works as a hit-and-run tactic which usually forces it to go out, and in the ends it does less damage against bulky mons,so Serperior is better against stall, and M-Sceptile against Offense because of his speed, but still Serperior has a nice Speed tier outrunning the now popular 110 tier, when people understand that he is using a 130BP+STAB move and basically a Nasty Plot in one turn they will stop with that ''75 Special Attack is poor damage''(Which indeed it is, but people get only the stat into account and not the 130BP move that is used alongside it).

Also when comparing the two of them and taking into account that the current most used teams are Stall which Serperior does better than him, and the extra speed may not be that needed since Greninja is gone against Offense, why does M-Sceptile is A-?

It loses 1vs 1 against a lot of the meta,M-Altaria,M-Sableye , Clefable, Charizard, Latios, Metagross,heck even against Raikou (so outrunning him barely matters), etc.
He can check non-scarf Keldeo, but so can Serperior and it doesn't cost a Mega slot.

I am not a M-Sceptile user, but I fail too se why it is A- compared to other mons who have certain niches without even using the Mega slot.

Against M-Lopunny it can do well, but so Scarf Latios, and again it doesn't cost a Mega slot.

So
M-Sceptile -------> B+ Rank

His speed is still the best unboosted bar certain things, but with Greninja gone I fail to see what is the reason to use a Mega slot for him, when you can use Serperior who actually does better against the most used playstyle atm and still outruns the 110 speed tier.
 
Last edited:
Someone want to explain how Gorebyss and Venomoth made OU?
Sure. Venomoth was UnderUsed (actually IIRC it was RU by usage) when it was banned from UU and lower. It was banned because of its ability to Baton Pass Quiver Dance boosts while being less afraid of status because of its ability, Wonder Skin. Because it was banned from UU, it lives in BL. Venomoth (despite being one of my favorite Pokemon) isn't terribly viable in OU, but its ability to pass QD relatively easily was deemed too powerful for UU.

I'm not that sure about Gorebyss so I'm sure someone else can fill you in more competently, but it can Baton Pass Shell Smash boosts, which is a great niche in OU (barring Smeargle, but you should be using GeoPass if you're passing with Smeargle).

EDIT: typos
 
Last edited:
Someone want to explain how Gorebyss and Venomoth made OU?
The ability to pass shell smash boosts and the fact that it is a bulky water type makes gorebyss an underrated baton passer that has a small niche in OU... It also has nice offensive presence unlike most baton passers

venomoth was explained by the guy above
 
Gorebyss and Venomoth aren't OU, but I'll quickly explain why they're in D rank to those unaware. Basically, they both have the niche of being able to pass boosts to a Pokemon to facilitate a sweep, Quiver Dance in the case of Venomoth, and Shell Smash for Gorebyss. They're both rather uncommon in most settings, as generally a team has to be built specifically around one of them in order for the team to function, they aren't really "splashable", so in general it's known as a gimmicky strategy to use either of them on teams fully designed to utilise them, usually with dual screens or Memento support, but it's very limiting and thus unseen for this reason. Gorebyss is often preferred due to the larger boost, but it's usually forced into running White Herb to negate the Defense and Special Defense drops, instead of Focus Sash, making it less easy to setup a boost, whereas Venomoth can use Focus Sash, and has the advantage of Sleep Powder which allows it setup 2 boosts often anyway, if Sleep Powder hits. It also passes a Special Defense boost which can be helpful. Usually they're paired with Pokemon like Landorus or Kyurem-B. Overall, they're very gimmicky choices on a team preventing a higher ranking, but they definitely do have a definable niche in OU that can be worth using.

As for S rank Clefable, it's an interesting topic, but I'm not too sure on it myself, so I'll have to rely on the rest of the ranking team to help me make a decision. It definitely is a defining Pokemon with multiple options, but I'm not going to belabour the point with the stuff we already know. It's probably the most important point to discuss, moreso than Mega Altaria which I think is better to focus on after the next update. Speaking of which, the slate for the ranking team to vote on should be determined within the next few days, so keep discussing =]
 

Grim

The Ghost
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Can someone tell me why Omastar is B?
Omastar is the strongest rain sweeper, even stronger than Keldeo because it can use a Modest nature. Swift Swim doubles its speed and Specs Hydro Pump 2HKOes common Pokemon that annoy rain, such as Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn. Its typing also prevents it from getting revenge killed by Talonflame, and it has Knock Off to cripple Chansey for a teammate such as Kingdra to sweep later.

Edit: Wow double ninja'd. ;;
 
Does Raikou really deserve A-?
I mean it's a great offensive pivot, but people are really exaggerating that rn. It has good speed of 115 allowing it to outspeed Thundurus and base 110s, but that isn't new really and although great it's pretty much its biggest niche. People say it's versatile, running Specs / AV (This is exaggerated IMO) / CM+Volt Switch, which are all good, yes, but unlike many other Pokemon, you can immediately know the opponent's set by the damage output. Raikou also has terrible coverage really, Boltbeam although unresisted, is really only decent where the majority of the tier takes both T-Bolt and HP Ice (Even Specs sometimes). Shadow ball is a decent move for Latis, Jirachi, Mew, and Celebi, but that's about it. Nobody is assed to run Aura Sphere (Being forced to run Rash makes the whole point of using Raikou worthless) and rarely does anyone run Extrasensory. AM also posted 1-2 fantastic posts also about proper reasoning for Raikou not to go to A-. IMO B+ fits it perfectly, it is better than most of the Pokemon in B+, but not really as good as any of the Pokemon in A- (in viability).

Things I support:

Mega Manectric --> A-
Tornadus-T --> B+/A-
Starmie --> A-
Kyurem-B --> B+
Arcanine --> D
Mega Latias --> B/B-
Scizor --> B+/stay at B
Mega Altaria --> Stay at A+
 
Does Raikou really deserve A-?
I mean it's a great offensive pivot, but people are really exaggerating that rn. It has good speed of 115 allowing it to outspeed Thundurus and base 110s, but that isn't new really and although great it's pretty much its biggest niche. People say it's versatile, running Specs / AV (This is exaggerated IMO) / CM+Volt Switch, which are all good, yes, but unlike many other Pokemon, you can immediately know the opponent's set by the damage output. Raikou also has terrible coverage really, Boltbeam although unresisted, is really only decent where the majority of the tier takes both T-Bolt and HP Ice (Even Specs sometimes). Shadow ball is a decent move for Latis, Jirachi, Mew, and Celebi, but that's about it. Nobody is assed to run Aura Sphere (Being forced to run Rash makes the whole point of using Raikou worthless) and rarely does anyone run Extrasensory. AM also posted 1-2 fantastic posts also about proper reasoning for Raikou not to go to A-. IMO B+ fits it perfectly, it is better than most of the Pokemon in B+, but not really as good as any of the Pokemon in A- (in viability).

Things I support:

Mega Manectric --> A-
Tornadus-T --> B+/A-
Starmie --> A-
Kyurem-B --> B+
Arcanine --> D
Mega Latias --> B/B-
Scizor --> B+/stay at B
Mega Altaria --> Stay at A+
First of all out running 110 is ''new'' in the fact that in XY it was not that needed since M-Metagross,M-Gallade,M-Diancie,etc. did not exist, secondly it is an offensive pivot that can do reliably his job because a good portion of threats in ORAS risk being 2OHKOed by the Specs set, which lets him work better as an Offensive Pivot, Shadow Ball also 2OHKOes M-Metagross, which since it usually lacks EQ because of the importance of his other moves it dies on a 1 vs 1 against the Spec set, which is not something a lot of the tier can say, the part of ''unlike many other pokemon you can know the set with damage output'' doesn't even make any sense when in reality it applies to basically every Specs user, your argument is pointing that being able to run more than one set is bad because the opponent can know it after you attack, which is completely false ,if the opponent needs to wait until you attack to know what you are running then you are doing it right, because that is what versatility is supposed to provide to the mental game.(Greninja is an example, since by the time you have scouted his set he could already got 1 or 2 kills, Raikou is not near that, but being in the need to guess between an AV or Specs set puts on the opponent mmore pressure).

Being able to win 1 vs 1 against, Latis,Tornadus-T,Starmie,Mega-Metagross,Thundurus,Keldeo,M-Sceptile,Talonflame,M-Slowbro,etc., alongside being able to provide momentum to a team is always important, of course the things it can check and threaten are based if you are running either AV or Specs, but the opponent needing to take a hit before knowing it helps indirectly Raikou to provide the momentum.

So in resume it is a good offensive pivot that can deal with common threats, alongside providing momentum(since even Landorus-T which is another good Scarf user who thtreatens Raikou dies on incoming to HP Ice if predicted), and unlike Mega Manectric it does not occupy a Mega Slot, something very important to keep in mind.

So

Raikou -------->A-
 
Last edited:

Dread Arceus

total cockhead
I hadn't even checked this thread for a while since I disagreed with alexwolf on a fundamental level, but it already looks a lot more accurate to me. The only mon I feel strongly about rising or falling is Reuniclus rising to C+, as its potential to sweep I feel is at least as high as Haxorus and Zygarde's, the other two sweepers in C+ rank. As far as the topics pointed out in post 89...
  • Clefable to S: I'm not sure how much I agree with this. It's a mon that tends to be highly effective against more standard balanced teams, but not so much against very slow-paced or very fast-paced teams. I honestly feel a large part of the issue with Clefable is that people just assume Heatran can arbitrarily beat it by walling it and PP stalling it, when you actually really need Taunt, Roar, and/or Flash Cannon. I wouldn't have too much of an issue with Fable going to S though, it's one of the few mons I can think of that hasn't lost much popularity throughout the entirety of XY, so it must mean something n_n
  • Tornadus-T to A-: Tornadus-T is either incredibly shaky, incredibly weak, or its both and is wearing an Assault Vest. On the other hand, it's pretty hard to switch in to, gains momentum easily with Regenerator U-turn, and is a major headache for stall teams. Its AV form is also a nice mon to use on aggressive teams, since its one of the few mons that can switch in to Mega Sceptile without losing momentum, as well as a few other random special mons like Gengar and non-Icy Wind Keldeo. With that in mind, I agree with it rising to A-.
  • Serperior's initial rank: I used Serperior in custom games quite a while back, around MLuke era. It didn't impress me then, and it doesn't impress me now. I would even go as far as to say it's a gimmick; it essentially went from a PU mon to a PU mon with Nasty Plot. While this kinda helps, it's coverage is absolutely horrid, having only 2 non-HP Special moves that are viable, and one of those two being a non-STAB Dragon-type move. While it does have access to Knock Off and Aqua Tail, they're hitting things pretty weak off of a measly 75 Attack. All in all, using Serperior just results in the question: "Why am I not using Mega Sceptile right now?" Serperior for C- at best.
  • Volcarona: I haven't really seen enough play of it recently to judge it, but at a glance it looks about right in B- rank; a high-maintenance, high-reward mon, similar to Mega Garchomp, Mega Tyranitar, and Lucario.
 
  • Serperior's initial rank: I used Serperior in custom games quite a while back, around MLuke era. It didn't impress me then, and it doesn't impress me now. I would even go as far as to say it's a gimmick; it essentially went from a PU mon to a PU mon with Nasty Plot. While this kinda helps, it's coverage is absolutely horrid, having only 2 non-HP Special moves that are viable, and one of those two being a non-STAB Dragon-type move. While it does have access to Knock Off and Aqua Tail, they're hitting things pretty weak off of a measly 75 Attack. All in all, using Serperior just results in the question: "Why am I not using Mega Sceptile right now?" Serperior for C- at best.
If anything, it's Serperior that makes Mega Sceptile somewhat unattractive to use, not the other way around. Using Sceptile begs the question "why am I wasting my mega slot on something that has basically the same coverage as Serperior, but has far less spammable moves, doesn't boost, has worse bulk, and is useless against stall?" Serperior is also a much better cleaner against balance teams than Sceptile. The problem with Sceptile is exactly that; you might as well use Serperior and use one of the other better megas like Metagross, Lopunny, etc.

Serperior at this point is certainly worthy of B- and being in the C ranks is underselling the threat that it poses and the utility it can bring to a team. It's coverage also isn't as bad as what you say. Leaf Storm, Dragon Pulse and HP Fire hits pretty much everything noteworthy except Heatran, Talonflame, Mega Venu and Zard-Y, the latter 2 of which are much rarer now, it has the option of running HP ground to be a good Heatran lure which is great support for team mates like Clefable, and it has Glare to cripple Talonflame and Zard-Y which allows team mates like Metagross etc to sweep much easier. Glare also makes it hard to set-up on too, stopping dragon dancers like Zard-X, Gyara, Altaria if it lacks Heal Bell and things like that from being able to set-up on you, which is really valuable for offense and balance teams alike. Overall, it's a pretty solid mon, and B- isn't too much to ask for what it does.
 

BenTheDemon

Banned deucer.
  • Serperior's initial rank: I used Serperior in custom games quite a while back, around MLuke era. It didn't impress me then, and it doesn't impress me now. I would even go as far as to say it's a gimmick; it essentially went from a PU mon to a PU mon with Nasty Plot. While this kinda helps, it's coverage is absolutely horrid, having only 2 non-HP Special moves that are viable, and one of those two being a non-STAB Dragon-type move. While it does have access to Knock Off and Aqua Tail, they're hitting things pretty weak off of a measly 75 Attack. All in all, using Serperior just results in the question: "Why am I not using Mega Sceptile right now?" Serperior for C- at best.
A 130 Base Power Nasty Plot with 113 Speed. And honestly, though Serperior has extremely limited coverage, Grass/Dragon/Fire hits just about everything except Heatran. It beats Dragonite and Latios on the switch, as they're both KO'd if they come onto Leaf Storm and are then hit by Dragon Pulse. HP Fire also KOs Ferrothorn and Scizor after a Leaf Storm boost. So using Leaf Storm has very little opportunity cost, since you get a Free Nasty Plot and can take out most things with a +2 coverage move.
Solid B+ or even A- Pokemon.
 
The same can be said for the Latis switching into Y, but Altaria can't be Pursuit trapped, can actually switch in consistently since it has room for Roost to heal itself, and can kill or cripple some of its checks. So what if it's forced to Roost if it's done its job, which is force Zard Y out (extremely important if Rocks are up) and be one of its few consistent switch-ins?

I'm not saying every set needs to have Cloud Nine, but being able to stop Zard Y from wallbreaking by running a little bulk is pretty impressive.
Only non-mega can switch in consistently. And still, even 252/92 have a chance to get the 2hko from fire blast, and non-mega Alteria is far too weak for it to be kept non-mega.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top