Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

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I honestly think Scizor should move to B+. Despite of course being outclassed in every way by it's Mega Form, the support base Scizor can offer to other Megas through killing literally every fairy in the game is incredible. Things like Gallade, Gyarados, Slowbro and Lopunny really love those things out of the way and Banded Scizor cuts through them probably better than every other non-mega fairy check in the metagame. What I think really pushes it over, however, is an SD set.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Adamant
208 HP/252 Atk/48 Spd
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-Roost/Iron Head
-Knock Off/Bug Bite


This set allows it to beat every fairy in the game; in fact OHKOing every single one with Bullet Punch - including max HP/Dfc Altaria! - aside from Unaware Clefable and a few Azumarill. Clefable doesn't do anything unless carrying Flamethrower/Fire Blast however, which is rare on the unaware sets, and Azumarill is admittedly the bigger problem here, but with SR all of them are taken care of easily aside from AV. Talking of Azu, the speed EVs are to outspeed 164 speed adamant Azu; the fastest the common sets go.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 337-398 (84 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This also allows Scizor to OHKO a ton of other common Pokémon, including but not limited to Lati@s - OHKOs bulky defog Latias with SR - T-tar, Gengar, Mega Gallade, and in general it's very hard to find something neutral to BP that isn't 2HKOed. Even the ones bulky enough to do so will not appreciate a Knock Off and most of the time can't outspeed.
 
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I honestly think Scizor should move to B+. Despite of course being outclassed in every way by it's Mega Form, the support base Scizor can offer to other Megas through killing literally every fairy in the game is incredible. Things like Gallade, Gyarados, Slowbro and Lopunny really love those things out of the way and Banded Scizor cuts through them probably better than every other non-mega fairy check in the metagame. What I think really pushes it over, however, is an SD set.

Scizor @ Life Orb
Adamant
208 HP/252 Atk/48 Spd
-Swords Dance
-Bullet Punch
-Roost/Iron Head
-Knock Off/Bug Bite


This set allows it to beat every fairy in the game; in fact OHKOing every single one with Bullet Punch - including max HP/Dfc Altaria! - aside from Unaware Clefable and a few Azumarill. Clefable doesn't do anything unless carrying Flamethrower/Fire Blast however, which is rare on the unaware sets, and Azumarill is admittedly the bigger problem here, but with SR all of them are taken care of easily aside from AV. Talking of Azu, the speed EVs are to outspeed 164 speed adamant Azu; the fastest the common sets go.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 337-398 (84 - 99.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

This also allows Scizor to OHKO a ton of other common Pokémon, including but not limited to Lati@s - OHKOs bulky defog Latias with SR - T-tar, Gengar, Mega Gallade, and in general it's very hard to find something neutral to BP that isn't 2HKOed. Even the ones bulky enough to do so will not appreciate a Knock Off and most of the time can't outspeed.
I agree with this, SD Scizor works great, and running 252 speed EV's is completely viable to kill Heatran and so on. It can also check big metagame threats like Lati@s and Mega-Metagross, and pairs well with a lot of Pokemon as you mentioned because of the beastly typing. Mega Scizor is better overall because of higher speed + bulk, but base Scizor has a higher power output and of course doesn't take up your mega slot.

I also think that Keldeo, although it is amazing by all means, doesn't really deserve S rank for me. It's quite easy to check, and despite burns from scald and so on there are several Pokemon that can switch in quite consistently.

Poliwrath seems interesting, but it is a hell of a lot easier to check than Keldeo. Even though it has Circle Throw I feel like it's so easy to take advantage of it because of all the things that switch in easily (unless I'm missing something - don't have a lot of experience against it). It's function is to phaze, but it doesn't threaten any prevalent Defogger.
 

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Going to nominate
Smeargle C- --> D
I guess this only things niche is baton pass teams, however I wouldnt be opposed for it going to unranked.
And see, that's the thing. I didn't leave the other stuff in there cause it was valid but originally it dropped from C because all the reasons you stated. The reason why it's maintained itself in the rankings is because BP, even with the inclusion of Magic Bouncers, is still cancerous to play against. Not every team is going to be running M-Diancie and M-Sableye at any given moment and for those teams that aren't they'll have to contend with the nonsense that is Smeargle and BP. Sure you can say its niche qualifies itself as D rank but the fact that it's one of the cornerstones of the play-style to begin with is a very strong trait that shouldn't be ignored. It's a step above Venomoth because of its ability to run a variety of set up moves to pass outside of Quiver Dance and as such it's hard to actually legitimately think they're on equal levels in terms of capabilities.
 
And see, that's the thing. I didn't leave the other stuff in there cause it was valid but originally it dropped from C because all the reasons you stated. The reason why it's maintained itself in the rankings is because BP, even with the inclusion of Magic Bouncers, is still cancerous to play against. Not every team is going to be running M-Diancie and M-Sableye at any given moment and for those teams that aren't they'll have to contend with the nonsense that is Smeargle and BP. Sure you can say its niche qualifies itself as D rank but the fact that it's one of the cornerstones of the play-style to begin with is a very strong trait that shouldn't be ignored. It's a step above Venomoth because of its ability to run a variety of set up moves to pass outside of Quiver Dance and as such it's hard to actually legitimately think they're on equal levels in terms of capabilities.
Would also like to add on even when facing said magic bouncers Smeargle can still Cotton Guard and Geomance in there faces especially with screens up. then proceed to baton pass away
 
Why is Togekiss ranked so high? All it does is paraflinch. THAT'S IT. It's not even great at paraflinching either. Jirachi (who might I add, can do much more than simply abuse the RNG) is also bulkier, faster, has a better typing, and to top it all off: Iron Head never misses (I realize that there's a reason it's ranked higher, but isn't the whole point of this forum to determine what is viable? Outclassed =/= Viable ).

The only thing Togekiss has over it is being able to Baton Pass Nasty Plot. That's really all I can see. Drop it to C+ Rank. If not, then please explain to me why it should stay ranked alongside Alomomola and Azelf.
 
Why is Togekiss ranked so high? All it does is paraflinch. THAT'S IT. It's not even great at paraflinching either. Jirachi (who might I add, can do much more than simply abuse the RNG) is also bulkier, faster, has a better typing, and to top it all off: Iron Head never misses (I realize that there's a reason it's ranked higher, but isn't the whole point of this forum to determine what is viable? Outclassed =/= Viable ).

The only thing Togekiss has over it is being able to Baton Pass Nasty Plot. That's really all I can see. Drop it to C+ Rank. If not, then please explain to me why it should stay ranked alongside Alomomola and Azelf.
It can also Nasty pass, and scarfed is alright, though, I agree with dropping it into the C's.
 
Why is Togekiss ranked so high? All it does is paraflinch. THAT'S IT. It's not even great at paraflinching either. Jirachi (who might I add, can do much more than simply abuse the RNG) is also bulkier, faster, has a better typing, and to top it all off: Iron Head never misses (I realize that there's a reason it's ranked higher, but isn't the whole point of this forum to determine what is viable? Outclassed =/= Viable ).

The only thing Togekiss has over it is being able to Baton Pass Nasty Plot. That's really all I can see. Drop it to C+ Rank. If not, then please explain to me why it should stay ranked alongside Alomomola and Azelf.
In reality it be alright, but from when I had last seen it, Toge was a fun tool to abuse with the excellent typing and optimal bulk being tweaked to physical or special but course this was in the XY meta. In ORAS it can boost faster than Sable to fight it if it wished, can be a repellant to Mega Scept, can take some punishment from some fightings I guess but I still believe it probably has some use in the meta. I don't know if its worth keeping in B- but im not the most knowledgeable. If someone was, it probably be Aragorn the King cause he was responsible for getting it that high last time so if he's got some insight that be nice.
 
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Togekiss is not only used to paraflinch. There is a defensive set, a cleric set, and it can also work as a stallbreaker. Fairy/Flying is also quite a good defensive typing, with two immunities, one being Earthquake.
 

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How is Jirachi outclassing Togekiss lol? Different typing, different tools at its disposable, different roles that they function at. Also the reason why people use Togekiss isn't paraflinching itself so to speak. That Thunder Wave, Air Slash, insert two fillers that doesn't even correlate to its best set is garbage and if that was the case it wouldn't be at B in the first place. Air Slash, Aura Sphere / Roost, Nasty Plot, Baton Pass max SpA and Speed is arguably one of its best sets. Air Slash's extra effect of having a high flinch rate is just an asset to Togekiss in regards to stall-breaking primarily. The key trait being amplified by these flinch rates is Togekiss has is in its ability to pass Nasty Plot boosts. You can argue and say that Celebi does this as well in regards to Nasty Plot passing but the difference is that Celebi's lack of Serene Grace doesn't give it the opportunity to deter various defensive cores in a much more immediate way like Togekiss can. As such Togekiss in regards to its common set has the ability to apply a bit more immediate pressure on the likes of Bisharp, Timid Heatran, Ferrothorn, M-Sceptile, CM Clefable and so forth with some of these former ones considered checks to Togekiss but can still lose to it based on its typing and utility. Also NP Pass Togekiss is primarily paired up with specially offensive cleaners such as M-Sceptile, Scarf Heatran, and M-Alakazam because it already has the ability to stall-break a lot of these cores that many of the cleaners are annoyed by which Jirachi doesn't do at all.

Obviously Celebi and Jirachi are better overall in the meta hence why they're higher in rank but don't just assume it's entirely outclassed based off of one simple aspect to the point it should be C+.

Edit: Fixed something I overlooked.
 
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Why is Togekiss ranked so high? All it does is paraflinch. THAT'S IT. It's not even great at paraflinching either. Jirachi (who might I add, can do much more than simply abuse the RNG) is also bulkier, faster, has a better typing, and to top it all off: Iron Head never misses (I realize that there's a reason it's ranked higher, but isn't the whole point of this forum to determine what is viable? Outclassed =/= Viable ).

The only thing Togekiss has over it is being able to Baton Pass Nasty Plot. That's really all I can see. Drop it to C+ Rank. If not, then please explain to me why it should stay ranked alongside Alomomola and Azelf.
i'll repost what Alexwolf posted about it moving up to B in the previous viability ranking thread.

Togekiss got way better in ORAS, because it is an amazing wallbreaker against your typical stall team, plus it counters Mega Slowbro, Mega Sableye, and Mega Sceptile, and is a great check to Mega Gallade and Mega Lopunny. Fairy-types are in big demand in this metagame, and Togekiss is an amazing and self sufficient wallbreaker with lots of defensive utility. It can run a fully physically defensive set to avoid the 2HKO from Mega Lopunny's Return even after SR, and by extension also counter Thunderbolt-less Latios, while supporting its team with Heal Bell or Thunder Wave, or go with max SpA near max Speed and two attacks, the second attack being either Aura Sphere or Dazzling Gleam, to get past certain checks and counters and outspeed Pokemon such as Bisharp, in order to be a more immediate threat. The biggest drawback of Togekiss that holds it from being A- / B+ is that it's SR weak and thus easy to pressure with double switches if SR is up, but with good anti hazards support it can really shine. Just pack some Electric-type and Mega Diancie checks (Hippowdon, Celebi, Excadrill) and the aforementioned anti hazard support and you are good to go, Togekiss doesn't need that much support and fits perfectly fine in B.
 
ok if you think togekiss' only job is paraflinching, you clearly havent used it before. Togekiss is similar to something like Garchomp, jack of all trades, master of none, in that it has a lot of small niches that culminate to its current rank. It can act as a defogger, Nastypasser, Sableye check, paraflincher and Heal bell supporter. Its typing also deserves merit, as it annoys plenty of common mons. It has a much wider movepool over other fairies, with notable moves like aura sphere and fire blast. It has its fair share of issues, but saying its completely outclassed by Jirachi is dumb.
 
--->C+
An out of left field nom, but a decent one imo. AV Slowking is a very effective and underrated set in the current meta, and it has a ton of power to knock things around. With the Vest, Slowking can check several big threats like Latios, Keldeo, Mega Diancie, Gengar, and Landorus. Special Attackers pretty much need SE STAB to beat it 1v1. Even Gengar has to predict correctly to not get KOed with Psyshock / Psychic. With it's wide coverage and decent Special Attack it's also not very passive. Regenerator gives it more than enough health to stay relevant and prevent it from getting worn down, unlike some other AV users. It functions similar to AV Torn-T, but checks different threats. It's not without it's shortcomings, as it can be overloaded without a teammate that can take a special hit or two. It's not too fast either. However, I still think it's effective enough to move up a sub-rank for it's ability to handle many common threats.
 
- down to C+

While Lucario has good cleaning abilities, it is hampered by so many flaws in OU to stay in B-. Foremost, Lucario is as fragile as glass, and has difficulties setting up for a sweep. Furthermore, Lucario is plagued with a heavy case of 4MSS; it literally wants five or six moveslots just to cover all of the threats that it cannot cover with Close Combat and ESpeed alone, and while you can leave that to teammates, you really cannot argue that Lucario does not have 4MSS because it really needs more than what four moveslots can offer it (it literally has to choose between Iron Tail + Ice Punch + Crunch + Bullet Punch in the fourth slot, all really important moves for Lucario to have). You really cannot argue that Lucario is more on par with fellow B- Ranks than Hydreigon and Volcarona than it is with C+ Rank Pokemon like Mega Camerupt and Dragalge, because Hydreigon and Volcarona require much less support than Lucario does in this metagame. Lucario is more on the lines of C+ Rank Pokemon like Mega Camerupt, Dragalge, Cobalion.... these Pokemon all have notable niches but have something that inhibits them, such as their niche being limited to a small number of teams, requiring extensive support, being outclassed.... Lucario is more inline with these Pokemon due to how much support it needs to efficiently clean opposing teams. While Lucario is not a bad Pokemon, it has too many flaws to stay in B- Rank, and I nominate it to drop to C+ Rank.
 
I feel the fact Sylveon is B- is underselling it so much.
It's an incredible wallbreaker with specs that can get by just through spamming Hyper Voice; making it an incredible support for Megas like Gallade who need help breaking through physical walls and hallmarks of stall like Sableye. Sort of like a mini-Gardevoirite but slower, more powerful and locked into one move, Sylveon actually has a fantastic defensive typing as well, complemented by excellent HP and Special Defence thought the physical bulk is a letdown; already showing something over the currently B-ranked Crawdaunt who's frail as fuck. While it does have it's weaknesses such as being slow and being weak to even neutral STAB moves on the physical side, Sylveon can almost always pull it's work with a specs set; the main crux here being Hyper Voice. Hyper Voice is so extremely spammable half the time you won't care about being locked into it as it destroys anything weak to it or with a moderate special defence and still takes hefty chunks out of everything else. Shadow Ball and HP Fire/Ground make great coverage if for some reason you feel like using an attack that's not screaming, and even Baton Pass is a fantastic choice to keep up momentum which eases your prediction and switch-in opportunities. A good core in particular is Gallade/Bisharp/Sylveon, as Sylveon is able to obliterate all the physical walls standing in their way like Slowbro and Sableye so Bish and Lade can SD their way to victory. In fact, it's the only Fairy-type in existence that hits extremely hard on the special side without being a Mega or Uber and a raise in rank is justifiable for that alone because there are so many times when that can come in handy. Paired with a Dugtrio or Magnezone to get rid of steels it becomes very hard for anything to switch into Sylveon. It actually got a lot more targets in ORAS -- the megas of Sableye, Sceptile, Slowbro, Altaria, Lopunny and Gallade cannot take a single hit from the Kalos Eeveelution; and while many beat it 1-1, they cannot afford to switch in even unevolved. Pokémon that were in the Meta before but are seeing a rise in usage now like Keldeo, Lati@s and Mega Gyarados are also destroyed by this thing -- also of note are common users of substitute such as Mega Sceptile and Mega Latias; Hyper Voice completely bypasses the sub and proceeds to wreck the Pokémon cowering behind it.
It does of course have it's weaknesses. As I mentioned, it's very slow which can let you down more than once. It's weak physical defence means it really can't take a physical hit; especially with Bisharp and Metagross running through the tier and Scizor making a comeback. However, due to hitting extremely hard, it's ability to offer a ton of team support in wallbreaking, and the fact that it's the only Pokémon that has a stupidly strong Special Fairy attack without being a Mega, I think Sylveon deserves a rise to B.
 
ok if you think togekiss' only job is paraflinching, you clearly havent used it before. Togekiss is similar to something like Garchomp, jack of all trades, master of none, in that it has a lot of small niches that culminate to its current rank. It can act as a defogger, Nastypasser, Sableye check, paraflincher and Heal bell supporter. Its typing also deserves merit, as it annoys plenty of common mons. It has a much wider movepool over other fairies, with notable moves like aura sphere and fire blast. It has its fair share of issues, but saying its completely outclassed by Jirachi is dumb.
That's why I asked you guys to tell me what it did, mister smartypants. I clearly stated above that I wasn't familiar with what it did other than paraflinching. You don't have to say that what I said was dumb.
 
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T I clearly stated above that I wasn't familiar with what it did other than paraflinching.
Why is Togekiss ranked so high? All it does is paraflinch. THAT'S IT.
i think the reason people responded the way they did is because you were very matter-of-fact about what togekiss does. no one even uses paraflinch? like this isnt dpp. toge is a nice mon that can, as previously stated, perform whatever role fits best for your team. air slash's flinch chance is cool and all, but its not the reason people use it. it can be a defogger, st/wallbreaker, nastypasser, whatever. sure, certain sets may be done better by other things, but it has certain niches over those mons, like its great typing, decent stats, and pretty nice offensive movepool.
also
mister smartypants
lol?
 
Also, can we drop Mienshao to D Rank or even unrank it? Metagame shifts in ORAS have rendered it almost completely unusable, with Mega Slowbro and Sableye being a complete thorn in the side, as well as the introduction of Mega Lopunny, which almost completely outclasses Mienshao. Sure, it does not take up a Mega Slot and hits harder than Mega Lopunny, but considering that Mega Lopunny is one of the better Megas in OU, it really is not that difficult to adjust your team to make room for M-Lopunny.
 
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This might sound stupid and all, but I think it's about time Florges gets ranked. This thing has been blacklisted since early 2014 for good reason: there was no real reason to use this thing over Sylveon, who has Pixilate Hyper Voice and a higher HP stat, which means it can WishPass better. At least in XY. However, ORAS gave Florges something that Sylveon could only dream of: Synthesis. This means it no longer has to waste two moveslots for recovery, and can allow it to run something such as Magic Coat to prevent SR users from shitting on it. With Magic Coat, Florges can be used early-game, kinda like Magic Coat Deoxys-D when it was allowed in BW or XY. Many Pokemon, such as Lando-T, Ferrothorn or Skarmory, think they can safely set up SR on it, which Florges can use to its advatange. While Sylveon also gets Magic Coat, most of the time it doesn't have room for this move, between Wish, Protect, Hyper Voice and Heal Bell (yeah i know specs is better but defensive is still a thing despite clefable). I'd say that something such as Worry Seed is viable as well, since it allows Florges to deal with or at least cripple Azumarill, Diggersby, Slowbro and Rotom-W, which are very dependant on their abilities. Even HP Fire is an option if you really hate Ferrothorn and Scizor, as it 2HKOes both with a bit of prior damage.
Now, Flygon: most of the time it's outclassed by Garchomp and the Lati twins, but has that small niche of being a Defog user that cares the least about entry hazards. Arcanine is also mostly outclassed by Zard X, Heatran and Victini, but has that small niche of checking Mega Meta and Sableye. I think the same can be said about Florges: it's mostly outclassed by Sylveon and Clefable, but has that small niche of having both huge special bulk AND an instant recovery move. ORAS finally made it, imo, viable enough to justify their use on select teams. Florges for D rank.

Also, I think Magneton should drop to C. It lost its main niche over Magnezone, which was to check Greninja, but it can still outspeed stuff such as Torn-T and ScarfTar.
 

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This might sound stupid and all, but I think it's about time Florges gets ranked. This thing has been blacklisted since early 2014 for good reason: there was no real reason to use this thing over Sylveon, who has Pixilate Hyper Voice and a higher HP stat, which means it can WishPass better. At least in XY. However, ORAS gave Florges something that Sylveon could only dream of: Synthesis. This means it no longer has to waste two moveslots for recovery, and can allow it to run something such as Magic Coat to prevent SR users from shitting on it. With Magic Coat, Florges can be used early-game, kinda like Magic Coat Deoxys-D when it was allowed in BW or XY. Many Pokemon, such as Lando-T, Ferrothorn or Skarmory, think they can safely set up SR on it, which Florges can use to its advatange. While Sylveon also gets Magic Coat, most of the time it doesn't have enough space for this move, between Wish, Protect, Hyper Voice and Heal Bell (yeah i know specs is better but defensive is still a thing despite clefable). I'd say that something such as Worry Seed is viable as well, since it allows Florges to deal with or at least cripple Azumarill, Diggersby, Slowbro and Rotom-W, which are very dependant on their abilities. Even HP Fire is an option if you really hate Ferrothorn and Scizor, as it 2HKOes both with a bit of prior damage.
Now, Flygon: most of the time it's outclassed by Garchomp and the Lati twins, but has that small niche of being a Defog user that cares the least about entry hazards. Arcanine is also mostly outclassed by Zard X, Heatran and Victini, but has that small niche of checking Mega Meta and Sableye. I think the same can be said about Florges: it's mostly outclassed by Sylveon and Clefable, but has that small niche of having both huge special bulk AND an instant recovery move. ORAS finally made it, imo, viable enough to justify their use on select teams. Florges for D rank.
The big problem I have with this is that comparing it to Sylveon is a rather flawed comparison these days, due to the fact that Sylveon itself is outclassed as a cleric by Clefable. Clefable, while having a significantly lower Special Defence than Florges, is still an overall better cleric with a ton of options, actually useful abilities and still has reliable recovery. If someone can give a reason to use Florges over Clefable or Chansey/Blissey, I'm all ears, but this really didn't convince me.
The Flygon comparison is also flawed because Flygon got ranked for doing something completely different to Garchomp and having significantly different qualities to Lati@s, while Florges still doesn't really do anything different to Sylveon and Clefable and is still outclassed by them.
 

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View attachment 34751

This might sound stupid and all, but I think it's about time Florges gets ranked. This thing has been blacklisted since early 2014 for good reason: there was no real reason to use this thing over Sylveon, who has Pixilate Hyper Voice and a higher HP stat, which means it can WishPass better. At least in XY. However, ORAS gave Florges something that Sylveon could only dream of: Synthesis. This means it no longer has to waste two moveslots for recovery, and can allow it to run something such as Magic Coat to prevent SR users from shitting on it. With Magic Coat, Florges can be used early-game, kinda like Magic Coat Deoxys-D when it was allowed in BW or XY. Many Pokemon, such as Lando-T, Ferrothorn or Skarmory, think they can safely set up SR on it, which Florges can use to its advatange. While Sylveon also gets Magic Coat, most of the time it doesn't have room for this move, between Wish, Protect, Hyper Voice and Heal Bell (yeah i know specs is better but defensive is still a thing despite clefable). I'd say that something such as Worry Seed is viable as well, since it allows Florges to deal with or at least cripple Azumarill, Diggersby, Slowbro and Rotom-W, which are very dependant on their abilities. Even HP Fire is an option if you really hate Ferrothorn and Scizor, as it 2HKOes both with a bit of prior damage.
Now, Flygon: most of the time it's outclassed by Garchomp and the Lati twins, but has that small niche of being a Defog user that cares the least about entry hazards. Arcanine is also mostly outclassed by Zard X, Heatran and Victini, but has that small niche of checking Mega Meta and Sableye. I think the same can be said about Florges: it's mostly outclassed by Sylveon and Clefable, but has that small niche of having both huge special bulk AND an instant recovery move. ORAS finally made it, imo, viable enough to justify their use on select teams. Florges for D rank.

Also, I think Magneton should drop to C. It lost its main niche over Magnezone, which was to check Greninja, but it can still outspeed stuff such as Torn-T and ScarfTar.
I'm gonna ask that you provide some decent high level replays of this being used because I'm confident in saying I'm not the only one tired of seeing people nominate stuff to D rank based on a bunch of theorymon that more than likely is garbage in practice and is on the assumption that this niche is actually worth using. Theorymon shouldn't be the base of an argument for ranking placement and I really hope we can see less of this as people read this comment. If there is any relevancy towards an actual practical use then it's understandable but if your argument is that it got one thing and all of a sudden it's now relevant, that's not exactly a case.
 
Diggersby to B+ or B

I know diggersby is a very solid pokemon in ORAS but honestly it is in no way A rank worthy as it has a few flaws and it needs more team support then the other A ranks. The main problems with diggersby is many times it wants some partner to tank priority which in diggersby's case is hit by most priority moves. Also it doesn't offer a ton of team synergy as it lacks alot of resistances. 85/78/78 bulk means it can only take so many hits and has a hard time setting up if SD. Finally 78 speed also hurts it's potential. A lot of times diggersby wishes he was much faster and in a meta game filled with fast wall breakers is pretty unkind to it as it is a glass cannon and most of the new megas bone it. Scarfed sets are also pretty easy to exploit as diggersby's stab moves have immunites and if locked into knock off the enemy could just go in there mega.
 
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Also, I think Magneton should drop to C. It lost its main niche over Magnezone, which was to check Greninja, but it can still outspeed stuff such as Torn-T and ScarfTar.
Far more importantly than Tornadus or Tyranitar, scarf magneton outspeeds Talonflame, acting as a check to it, which is its main niche over magnezone. It also speed ties with Adamant +1 [m-] Gyarados, and outspeeds common threats like +1 m-altaria and +1 dragonite, as well as slightly less common but still relevant threats like m-sceptile, m-beedrill, m-pidgeot, diggersby, dugtrio, and starmie, all of which outspeed timid scarf hp fire magnezone.

The only reason magnezone is ever a better choice is for the barely noticeable extra bulk, slightly more power, or for the specs set. They are both effective trappers, but magneton pulls off the scarf trapper set (arguably the better set) much better, and more effectively.

Also, the fact that scarf magneton speed ties with adamant +1 gyarados is becoming increasingly important, as m-gyarados is quickly becoming a top-tier threat with crunch, so having something that can beat it at +1 (albeit unreliably, and with prior damage necessary) is very useful. Magneton should definitely stay B-.
 

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Far more importantly than Tornadus or Tyranitar, scarf magneton outspeeds Talonflame, acting as a check to it, which is its main niche over magnezone. It also speed ties with Adamant +1 [m-] Gyarados, and outspeeds common threats like +1 m-altaria and +1 dragonite, as well as slightly less common but still relevant threats like m-sceptile, m-beedrill, m-pidgeot, diggersby, dugtrio, and starmie, all of which outspeed timid scarf hp fire magnezone.

The only reason magnezone is ever a better choice is for the barely noticeable extra bulk, slightly more power, or for the specs set. They are both effective trappers, but magneton pulls off the scarf trapper set (arguably the better set) much better, and more effectively.

Also, the fact that scarf magneton speed ties with adamant +1 gyarados is becoming increasingly important, as m-gyarados is quickly becoming a top-tier threat with crunch, so having something that can beat it at +1 (albeit unreliably, and with prior damage necessary) is very useful. Magneton should definitely stay B-.
This would be nice if Gyarados was running Adamant these days, but most of them are running Jolly so that point doesn't really apply, same deal with M-Beedrill as well. I have no opinion on its placement right now just wanted to point this out.
 
This would be nice if Gyarados was running Adamant these days, but most of them are running Jolly so that point doesn't really apply, same deal with M-Beedrill as well. I have no opinion on its placement right now just wanted to point this out.
Oh my bad. Although, I wasn't too adamant [hehe] about the Gyarados point, as it was a speed tie at best. I shouldn't think M-Beedril is common enough to really make an impact an magneton's rank either, so the bulk of my point remains valid: Magneton largely outclasses magnezone as a scarf trapper and as such, these capabilities should be recognised and acknowledged for newer players, and remembered for older players, by its continued placement in B-.
 
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