Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100

Status
Not open for further replies.

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Magcargo I don't agree with a Latias drop. You listed many of its cons, and while they should definitely be taken into account, you made it sound like they only apply to Latias and not to her brother. I agree with many of the things Bludz already said, such as both of the Latis being pursuit trapped, and that neither can beat any of the things you mentioned unless Latios runs CM, which I admit is a very viable set. However, what Latias lacks in power she makes up for in bulk. She is a much more consistent check to things such as Thundurus, Landorus, Zard y, Keldeo, and mega Venusaur because she has the bulk to switch in on their strongest coverage moves and live to roost, while Latios would simply fall. Additionally, Latias can run full bulky sets while Latios cant. I've been using a team with a bulky Latias and its a great glue that holds the team together by providing Defog support while switching into many hits that Latios could only dream of. This is all anecdotal of course, but I truly believe that Latias is an invaluable glue for certain teams where other mins simply wont work.

Finally, Latias works really well on hyper offense because she has healing wish, which not only brings back a teammate to full health, but also allows her to escape a non Scarftar / other mons pursuit, whereas Latios would just die after getting off a hit. This I feel is one of the biggest reasons why Latias is so good, and untill that niche becomes irrelevant, I cannot see Latias dropping below A rank.

Also agree with srn that chomp should rise. Might make another post about that later.
 
Nominating! I'd like to see if I can get Mega Aggron going from C- to C or C+. This thing is mind-blowingly bulky, with a base 140 attack stat. Filter is just icing on the cake, and access to stealth rock and thunder wave gives it some killer utility. Coverage options are everywhere with MAggron, including but not limited to stone edge, Ice Punch, EQ, and fire punch depending on your team's needs. MAggron can utilize an odd setup set with Rock Polish/Automotize to bolster It's speed to nice levels, or a PuP+resttalk to smash it's way though weakend HO teams. Granted, the speed upping set is better done by Mgross, but I thought it deserved a mention. Anyway, what I think The set that lets it stand out from other megas i(particularly Mgross) its resttalk tank set, consisting of rest/sleeptalk/Heavy slam or Iron head/coverage move. It can be tailored to suit your team's needs, both with EVs and moves. Anyway, this set can take on most anything that doesn't 3HKO it, which is a LOT more then one would think. Finally, Resttalk Varients can act as a status absorber, resting off burns and paralysis, being immune to poison, and sleep talking through sleep, allowing it to take on Pokemon such as amoongus, Breloom, and defensive Megazard X. Thanks!
 
I'm not sure about moving Mega Aggron just yet. It has a good support movepool and Attack along with its titanic Defense, but it sorely misses reliable recovery which means that it's easy to wear down, while a Rest set will struggle to find room for one of its support options. It absolutely hates status conditions and faces immense competition for a Mega slot; this is especially a problem given that Pokemon such as Skarmory do a similar job. Skarmory also has access to Roost and the valuable Defog. Furthermore, other defensive Megas tend to bring more utility to a team thanks to their greater diversity - Aggron doesn't really have a role other than sitting there and taking the odd Physical attack. I should also mention that it can be difficult to Mega Evolve Aggron because of the regular form's awful typing and Special Defense.
 
I'm not sure about moving Mega Aggron just yet. It has a good support movepool and Attack along with its titanic Defense, but it sorely misses reliable recovery which means that it's easy to wear down, while a Rest set will struggle to find room for one of its support options. It absolutely hates status conditions and faces immense competition for a Mega slot; this is especially a problem given that Pokemon such as Skarmory do a similar job. Skarmory also has access to Roost and the valuable Defog. Furthermore, other defensive Megas tend to bring more utility to a team thanks to their greater diversity - Aggron doesn't really have a role other than sitting there and taking the odd Physical attack. I should also mention that it can be difficult to Mega Evolve Aggron because of the regular form's awful typing and Special Defense.
Keep in mind that I'm not asking for this thing to be A rank; It's considered almost completely unviable right now on the charts, however, which is simply not true. It has a significant niche as a nigh-Impenitrable physical wall, and one with a high attack stat to boot.
 
Magcargo I don't agree with a Latias drop. You listed many of its cons, and while they should definitely be taken into account, you made it sound like they only apply to Latias and not to her brother. I agree with many of the things Bludz already said, such as both of the Latis being pursuit trapped, and that neither can beat any of the things you mentioned unless Latios runs CM, which I admit is a very viable set. However, what Latias lacks in power she makes up for in bulk. She is a much more consistent check to things such as Thundurus, Landorus, Zard y, Keldeo, and mega Venusaur because she has the bulk to switch in on their strongest coverage moves and live to roost, while Latios would simply fall. Additionally, Latias can run full bulky sets while Latios cant. I've been using a team with a bulky Latias and its a great glue that holds the team together by providing Defog support while switching into many hits that Latios could only dream of. This is all anecdotal of course, but I truly believe that Latias is an invaluable glue for certain teams where other mins simply wont work.

Finally, Latias works really well on hyper offense because she has healing wish, which not only brings back a teammate to full health, but also allows her to escape a non Scarftar / other mons pursuit, whereas Latios would just die after getting off a hit. This I feel is one of the biggest reasons why Latias is so good, and untill that niche becomes irrelevant, I cannot see Latias dropping below A rank.

Also agree with srn that chomp should rise. Might make another post about that later.
When it comes to coverage, Tyranitar only needs to run what fits to its team's needs. Greninja could not realistically cover everything, and neither can Tyranitar. Tyranitar's moveslots simply depend on team needs, and not having all of the moveslots it wants is not necessarily a bad thing, as Tyranitar can leave the threats it cannot cover to its teammates.

Latias is very underwhelming. While it checks a number of Pokemon, it is so easy to take advantage of. It is really easy to wall, and Pursuit trappers are everywhere, meaning exploiting it is not that difficult. Most Pokemon that have issues with Latias, such as Zard Y, Keldeo, and Landorus are all paired with teammates that can exploit or trap Latias, meaning it is not that easy of a glue onto teams as you would think. Other Pokemon in A Rank, such as Celebi and Ferrothorn, are much more capable of supporting teams due to the sheer utility they have, whereas Latias is a sitting duck for the majority of the metagame due to how little it can actually do. I think A- rank is fine for it.
 
I'm not sure about moving Mega Aggron just yet. It has a good support movepool and Attack along with its titanic Defense, but it sorely misses reliable recovery which means that it's easy to wear down, while a Rest set will struggle to find room for one of its support options. It absolutely hates status conditions and faces immense competition for a Mega slot; this is especially a problem given that Pokemon such as Skarmory do a similar job. Skarmory also has access to Roost and the valuable Defog. Furthermore, other defensive Megas tend to bring more utility to a team thanks to their greater diversity - Aggron doesn't really have a role other than sitting there and taking the odd Physical attack. I should also mention that it can be difficult to Mega Evolve Aggron because of the regular form's awful typing and Special Defense.
The whole point of Aggron is to use it as an extremely bulky SR setter with solid offensive stats and coverage options, so it's not super passive. Skarmory isn't a good comparison because the only thing they share is a Steel-typing and being physical walls. Aggron can strike back hard with it's high attack stat and good offensive coverage options, while all Skarmory can really do is just wall stuff and do nothing back. The only way it can actually get some damage on it's targets is through counter, which isn't even that reliable. Skarmory is also total taunt bait.
Here's what jukain said
aggron's (very small) niche is as a rly bulky sr setter with solid offense options/coverage.
Aggron has access to many nice coverage moves like Earthquake, Rock Slide, Fire Punch, and Avalanche. While I do agree that it has issues with opportunity cost, the same can be said for Pokemon such as mega Absol, meta Blastoise, mega Latios, and mega medicham. Aggron misses out on reliable recovery and despises status, but pretty much every mon hates status bar Magic Guard users such as Clefable and Reuniclus, or Guts abusers such as Conkeldurr and Heracross. Mega Aggron is also quite hard to wear down, it resists SR, takes little to no damage from physical attacks, and is immune to Toxic.
 

bludz

a waffle is like a pancake with a syrup trap
is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
When it comes to coverage, Tyranitar only needs to run what fits to its team's needs. Greninja could not realistically cover everything, and neither can Tyranitar. Tyranitar's moveslots simply depend on team needs, and not having all of the moveslots it wants is not necessarily a bad thing, as Tyranitar can leave the threats it cannot cover to its teammates.

Latias is very underwhelming. While it checks a number of Pokemon, it is so easy to take advantage of. It is really easy to wall, and Pursuit trappers are everywhere, meaning exploiting it is not that difficult. Most Pokemon that have issues with Latias, such as Zard Y, Keldeo, and Landorus are all paired with teammates that can exploit or trap Latias, meaning it is not that easy of a glue onto teams as you would think. Other Pokemon in A Rank, such as Celebi and Ferrothorn, are much more capable of supporting teams due to the sheer utility they have, whereas Latias is a sitting duck for the majority of the metagame due to how little it can actually do. I think A- rank is fine for it.
Okay first of all Clone never even mentioned Tyranitar's viability rank at all so I don't know why you are defending it here. If you were responding to Thatwackycruton, you should have probably made that part of the post before quoting Clone, because otherwise it's kind of confusing.

Secondly, you completely ignored the fact that if you tell us that Latias should drop, you have to explain why Latios shouldn't. All the things you listed as weaknesses of Latias are also weaknesses of Latios. Are you also suggesting Latios should drop to A rank? If not, then your argument is lacking a key component which is focusing on Latias' specific qualities separate from its brother. And if you do think Latios should also drop, then I question why you would want Ttar to move up. Generally stuff moves up when the things it counters are everywhere, but if the Latis are losing effectiveness then Ttar is less valuable because it counters something that is on the decline.
 
Last edited:

AM

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
LCPL Champion
When Keldeo, Landorus, Char-Y, and so forth plague the tier I don't really agree at all that M-Aggron should rise. This role it has is pretty specific for something that can be easily accomplished within one to two Pokemon without making sacrifices in team composition and viability. Also Skarmory doesn't just "wall stuff and do nothing back" when it has Brave Bird and Iron Head that it can run based on team needs. Opportunity cost applies in a variety of forms so let's not throw the buzzword around as a legitimate excuse without evaluating the pros and cons each Pokemon reflects as a whole. Mega Aggron isn't hard to wear down, it's hard to wear down for physically inclined teams which are at most 1/2 of most teams. That's just poor building if your entire teams focus is of the physically inclined side, obviously it's a different story if you lost all of your special attackers in the match but that would have to be based on you and not the team. M-Aggron has niches but I don't believe they are of value enough to warrant a rise.
 
Okay first of all Clone never even mentioned Tyranitar's viability rank at all so I don't know why you are defending it here. If you were responding to Thatwackycruton, you should have probably made that part of the post before quoting Clone, because otherwise it's kind of confusing.

Secondly, you completely ignored the fact that if you tell us that Latias should drop, you have to explain why Latios shouldn't. All the things you listed as weaknesses of Latias are also weaknesses of Latios. Are you also suggesting Latios should drop to A rank? If not, then your argument is lacking a key component which is focusing on Latias' specific qualities separate from its brother. And if you do think Latios should also drop, then I question why you would want Ttar to move up. Generally stuff moves up when the things it counters are everywhere, but if the Latis are losing effectiveness then Ttar is less valuable because it counters something that is on the decline.
Latios is not meant to be bulky, it is more aggressive and is more capable of pressuring its switch-ins. Pursuit trappers are a pain in the neck, but Latios is more capable in terms of pressuring the opponent due to better offenses and being able to pressure a number of Pokemon that want to handle it reliably, such as Ferrothorn, Heatran, Azumarill, Bisharp, Tyranitar.... Latios is much more capable of wearing down these Pokemon for offensive teammates to deal with, whereas Latias is a sitting duck and is more prone to being taken advantage of due to wanting to forgo all coverage for support moves, and also due to its much lower special attack stat. Latias is not that bulky either, as even with Roost, it is really easy to wear down, so saying that it makes up for the offense with bulk and support really does not cut it when Latias is one of the easiest Pokemon to pressure that commonly used.
 

Ox the Fox

is a Tiering Contributorwon the 8th Official Ladder Tournamentis a Past SCL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
Smogon Charity Bowl IV Winner
I'd like to nominate Mega Scizor to A+ (edit: bludz also nommed this on the page before, sry didn't see it)

Mega scizor is an extremely good pokemon right now, and I feel it's even better with metagross staying. People were saying it was going to get better as fairies would be more prevalent, but I feel it's a great check to metagross already and checks the fairies either way. It's offensive set with 3 attacks, bug bite bullet punch, and superpower has very few checks in this current meta with most of them not being able to switch in. A lot of people are beginning to run faster trans, however you can typically run jolly to deal with these as they don't normally creep that much. It's bulky set is also very underrated being able to setup on pokemon such as gardevoir or landorus-t, being able to survive the 2hko. It's also a great switch in to pokemon such as garde, landot, kube, metagross, azumarill, and celebi. It can also run u turn as a way to grab quick momentum, or be an extremely effective defogger. Overall I feel mega scizor should rise because it has a variety of sets, is a great fairy check, and has very few switch ins.

I'd also like to agree with Recreant 's nomination for charizard-y to A+

Chary is astoundingly good in this meta with so few checks or counters. It's putting a huge stress on teambuilding at the moment as the few pokemon who do beat it, talonflame, chansey, lati can all be crippled with team support. One example of such team support is banded ttar which has the ability to severly weaken all these pokemon with pursuit as these switch ins. Once these pokemon have been eliminated chary just has an absolute field day being able to spam flamethrower and or fire blast and pretty much get a kill everytime.
 
Last edited:
I noticed Mega Camerupt has been removed completely, was it deemed unviable? I searched the thread and couldn't find any posts recently about it being unranked; if it was posted about and I missed it then I'm dumb and I apologise, but last post I can see is it being moved down to C. (I know Camerupt is basically irrelevant to OU in the bigger picture, but I'm intrigued regardless.)
 

AM

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
LCPL Champion
I noticed Mega Camerupt has been removed completely, was it deemed unviable? I searched the thread and couldn't find any posts recently about it being unranked; if it was posted about and I missed it then I'm dumb and I apologise, but last post I can see is it being moved down to C. (I know Camerupt is basically irrelevant to OU in the bigger picture, but I'm intrigued regardless.)
That wasn't an intentional aspect probably just overlooked it when I was editing it. It's fixed now. Thanks for the heads up.
 
So why precsely has Ampharos dropped ? I made a long post (here it is, again http://www.smogon.com/forums/posts/6020820/ ) summing up why it's a viable andd good answer to a lot of commn threats and yet it still dropped without any explanation.

Also Ampharos counters Keldeo and is a solid answer to a lot of Megagross sets (Only shits that 2HKOes Physically Defensive are IP and EQ.) so that alone should warrant a place to C+. (Even if imo it's B- at worst) But really I don't think I'm biased here, people just didn't play Ampharos a lot and didn't notice how of an anti meta Pokemon it is since it counters Talonflame, pmuch all the Electric types in the Meta and resists a lot of stuff overall (Again, check my previous post about Amph since it has plenty of calcs to prove my point.), absorbs status very well thanks to RestTalk Ampharos being a good pivot, has a ton of synergy with a lot of mons and is by no means weak uninvested, besides it can run an all out attacking set, a Specially defensive one, or an Agility set, making him not that predictable, his movepool is okayish as well, since he can do unique things such as being the slowest volswitcher in the meta, allowing for slow and safe pivots, Mold Breaker allows it to Toxic and stall Mega Sableye (who can't even ohko at +6 on 252/0 Amph) or, more rarely, to pivot on Mega Sceptile, its stab conbination is unique in OU and its moveset has some oddities such as Signal Beam that has some niches. (He also has HP and that Special Rock Type Move i dont remember its name but that one isn't really useful so)

besides Amph can fit in a lot of team archetypes : He goes well with stall thanks to the fact he can counter Water types, Electric types, stuff such as Breloom, some Megagrosses, Sableye and Talonflame all in one package, he fits in balance EXTREMELY well (I play him in my Rain balance and he is the one carrying my team, literally.), he fits in some weirdish team archetypes such as Rains and Trick Room and can somehow fit in HO even if people might prefer Manectric in the role of the electric type, (boh have their pros/cons though so.) giving it some unique niches and not that much of a competition at what he does, you really wont find a bulky electric that many electric types that either clean in no time with agility, crumble walls thanks to its absurdly high dmg output, or wall a really reat portion of the meta depending from its set.

also i repeat but ampharos has a lot of synergy with other mones : Ferrothorn + Ampharos + watertype is a really great defensive core that allows for really safe pivots
 
Last edited:
So why precsely has Ampharos dropped ? I made a long post summing up why it's a viable andd good answer to a lot of commn threats and yet it still dropped without any explanation.

Also Ampharos counters Keldeo and is a solid answer to a lot of Megagross sets (Only shits that 2HKOes Physically Defensive are IP and EQ.) so that alone should warrant a place to C+. (Even if imo it's B- at worst but really I don't think I'm biased here, people just didn't play Ampharos a lot and didn't notice how of an anti meta Pokemon it is.)
In short? The Agility set is just bad in OU and its defensive sets rely on RestTalk. Anything that relys on RestTalk isn't very reliable in a long term sense. Lack of reliable, quick recovery and passive recovery in Leftovers leads to it being worn down rather quickly.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Ampharos: 153-181 (39.9 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
28 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 103-123 (34.2 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

It loses to Gross 1v1, let alone switches in on it.

28 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. +2 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 122-146 (37.7 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Ampharos: 225-265 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You can't switch-in on SubCM Keldeo consistantly either, because if Keldeo CMs on the switch it gets 2 CMs up by the time you can attack and you lose. I mean I guess it has a small place in OU but your overselling its merits a little (and I've used it myself a little bit recently, it's just underwhelming).

Edit: Glitched with the calcs and I'm too lazy to change it.
 
Last edited:

AM

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
LCPL Champion
So why precsely has Ampharos dropped ? I made a long post summing up why it's a viable andd good answer to a lot of commn threats and yet it still dropped without any explanation.

Also Ampharos counters Keldeo and is a solid answer to a lot of Megagross sets (Only shits that 2HKOes Physically Defensive are IP and EQ.) so that alone should warrant a place to C+. (Even if imo it's B- at worst) But really I don't think I'm biased here, people just didn't play Ampharos a lot and didn't notice how of an anti meta Pokemon it is since it counters Talonflame, pmuch all the Electric types in the Meta and resists a lot of stuff overall (Again, check my previous post about Amph since it has plenty of calcs to prove my point.), absorbs status very well thanks to RestTalk Ampharos being a good pivot, has a ton of synergy with a lot of mons and is by no means weak uninvested, besides it can run an all out attacking set, a Specially defensive one, or an Agility set, making him not that predictable, his movepool is okayish as well, since he can do unique things such as being the slowest volswitcher in the meta, allowing for slow and safe pivots, Mold Breaker allows it to Toxic and stall Mega Sableye (who can't even ohko at +6 on 252/0 Amph) or, more rarely, to pivot on Mega Sceptile, its stab conbination is unique in OU and its moveset has some oddities such as Signal Beam that has some niches. (He also has HP and that Special Rock Type Move i dont remember its name but that one isn't really useful so)
Here's your explanation now. Sort of ninja'd by Celticpride but here's my take on it. Oh and I've used Mega Ampharos for a period of time so this isn't just me theorymonning aspects.

M-Ampharos dropped because in the context of the meta-game as a whole when you take into account the trends, cores, and the play-styles that convey the tier it's not at the level of a C rank Pokemon and in practice all of this stuff you mentioned as to what it does is an entirely different story in practice. The Agility set is getting outpaced by Scarf Lando-T, needs a turn of set up to accomplish, and within that time frame needs to find moments that unfortunately it does not find against a lot of the meta-game to accomplish its goals successfully. M-Ampharos is weak to not only Fairy types but let's consider that Fairy Type even with M-Metagross in the tier is an extremely powerful type and this can be seen through the high usage of M-Altaria as just one key example, who pretty much stops M-Ampharos cold, and no HP Ice is not an M-Altaria answer what so ever so this isn't a very relevant point in M-Ampharos' favor.

RestTalk Mega Ampharos is in too many cases a sitting duck. This aspect of being a slow volt turner is stop dead cold when Ground + Fairy cores come into play and many teams will implement these cores into their builds by virtue of the synergy they provide. This set by itself provides a very high opportunity cost as you're giving the opponent the advantage of set up and the removal of counter play in the long run, something that is always bad and shouldn't be encouraged as an aspect of something you say is of B value in rank. The act of pivoting is fine but sooner or later you have to act and M-Ampharos really isn't something that acts more so than it is a buffer to a couple of threats that will easily take into account M-Ampharos without a second thought through cores an general team frameworks.

Toxic M-Ampharos netting the Toxic on M-Sableye isn't exactly a very big selling point when M-Sableye will be paired with a Fairy Type that just takes advantage of M-Ampharos and there are viable ways to handle M-Sableye in the first place.

M-Ampharos does not provide a trait of unpredictability, it provides a niche aspect to the point that when taking into account of team-building and practicality it is simply an after thought that is accounted for by utilizing basic fundamentals of building when we take into account higher level team builds. Being unique in something only goes so far if the unique trait works as well as you say in practice. These traits simply don't hold as much weight as you have described in the past and as such these are several reasons as to why it dropped in the first place.
 
I probably oversold amph yeah lol, but unless it's SUBCM, can Keldeo really plow through Ampharos ? Also Megagross is known for having not a lot of reliable switchins that can really hamper it, hence why I mentionned why Volt Switch made it so good, allowing for stuff such as, idk, Scarfchomp to come in safely and kill the Gross.
 
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Ampharos: 153-181 (39.9 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
28 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 103-123 (34.2 - 40.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Mega Ampharos: 133-157 (34.7 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
28 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 141-166 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO

28 SpA Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. +2 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 122-146 (37.7 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Ampharos: 225-265 (58.7 - 69.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
28 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. +2 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 168-198 (52 - 61.3%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Mega Ampharos: 195-231 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You used regular Ampharos instead of its Mega.

Edit @ below Well I was only copying your calcs but with Mega Ampharos stats. :0
 
Last edited:
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Mega Ampharos: 133-157 (34.7 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
28 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 141-166 (46.8 - 55.1%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO



28 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Thunderbolt vs. +2 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 168-198 (52 - 61.3%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Mega Ampharos: 195-231 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You used regular Ampharos instead of its Mega.
Uh I glitched. I really shouldn't post calcs from my mobile :/

Oh yeah, Defensive Mega Amphy really shouldn't run Thunderbolt, it should run Volt Switch which is a 3HKO:
8 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Volt Switch vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Metagross: 109-129 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Edit @ above: I was using TBolt to show a higher power level (that and you can't really 2HKO something with VSwitch practically speaking. I guess you could run TBolt to check stuff better but momentum is generally more worthwhile).
 
Last edited:
Most of what I'm about to say here has already been said, but M-amphy just doesn't have enough usage to take up a mega slot. I mean, this is slot where something like a Megazard could be, or even MegaGross. Giving up that opportunity for a slow electric type with four bad weaknesses? Not likely. Furthermore, this thing absolutely cries to hazard/spikes stacking offense, as resttalk being its form of recovery, leaving it worn down easily due to lack of lefties. In a teir filled with competing electric types Rotom-W, Thunderus, raikou, and mega manectric (granted, these pokemon perform different roles. but still, it doesn't leave much room for our poor amphy) Mega Amphy doesn't really have a large enough niche to make it viable. All I can really see it as is a niche bulky elec type/bulky pivot. A good niche, but severely hindered by the fact that it takes up a mega slot. That's my take on the matter.
 

blinkie

¯\_( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)_/¯ dank meme crew
Just wondering, why is Mega Glalie at D? I could've sworn it was at C not too long ago...
Basically only reason to ever use it is boom, except its just a waste of a mega slot, although it also can stack spikes and then suicide, so it has an extremely small niche. Kind of a waste of a mega slot, as most likely it will only take out 1 mon. Its speed tier and bad defensive typing means it dies to a lot of stuff as well. Although it hits pretty hard, there are a bunch of other Megas that can do the same so not much of a reason to use it in OU...
 
Mega Glalie dropped becuase it was weak to stealth Rock, had a horrible defensive typing, lacked bulk, had the 4MSS (choosing between hitting heatran with equake and wash rotom with freeze dry) and at most, would last about 3 turns. It wall breaking capabilities were enough to keep it ranked though. It also suffers from a similar issue that mega Bannete had, which was for the most part, sacking yourself in a attempt to kill something else, which is not particualy appealing, especially for a mega pokemon.
Edit: Damn the ninjas that reside here...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Vxy
My first nomination, here goes nothing!



I'd like to discuss Hippowdon and move him to A Rank



While not really a pokemon with a solid presence in the entire XY OU generation Hippowdon has gained the attention of many Top Players lately, it is not difficult to see why, access to a solid recovery, great offensive and defensive type, Stealth Rocks something that every team needs, a powerful STAB in Earthquake, Whirlwind in order to not make him total set up fodder and even coverage moves like Stone Edge/Rock Slide and Crunch for Talonflame/Thundurus and Gengar respectively, 108/112/72 defenses grants him the ability to shrug off majority of physical attacks in the tier, an example would be the infamous Mega Metagross, which needs Grass Knot in order to muscle past him, Hippowdon also laughs at common Offensive 'mons like Mega Lopunny and Bisharp (he can even take a neutral +2 Life Orb Adamant Knock Off, something that many few pokemon can boast to do so) Mega Charizard X (a +1 Flare Blitz will do 65-76% to the on-site spread, while Earthquake + recoil will ohko) and can go toe to toe against many other rampant threats like Talonflame and Excadrill, even bulky enough to not get 2hked by LO Exca's EQ or Mega Pinsir's Return.


The special bulk while lower is also not really a pushover, the on-site spread allows Hippowdon to only have a very low 4% chance to be 2hked by Life Orb Gengar, one of Stall's greatest nightmares, also able to stop Thundurus or Volturn chain created by manectric due to the ground type and its bulk, if we were to give him more Special Defensive evs he would also be able to come in against Mega Diancie's Moonblasts much more easily, which is a great feat itself, testament of Hippo's bulk, and usefulness on a team.

And while Sand Stream is a great ability, helping inflicting residual damage and also stopping Drizzle/Drought, players can also opt to run Sand Force on Hippo, giving their team an easier time, which is very important, especially if you are using stuff like Mega Sableye, Mega Venusaur, Defensive Zard X or Mega Altaria.

Basically, Hippowdon has become a great glue on Balanced and Semi Stall teams (heck, you may even add him on bulky offensive teams as a glue and Stealth Rocks user), able to set up stealth rocks, stopping all Volt Switch users bar Rotom-wash, and able to take on a good chunk of the Metagame, making him an invaluable team player and a force to be reckoned on the Metagame (tbh much more than stuff like Mega Gallade which sits on A Rank, but that's another tale).
 

Clone

Free Gliscor
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Team Rater Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Kyubes for A-

It's time for this monster to move up. Many people are already starting to realize how fucking good this monster is right now, and it's easy to see why. It demolishes balance. Practically nothing switches into the special attacker LO set bar a few things which are easily exploitable by a teammate. The BoltBeam + Earth Power coverage is more than enough to take a dump on all the Ferro - Bro - Gliscor balance teams going around, and even other defensive cores such as VenuTran, HippoTran, and Altaria + Steel-type fall to this monster. Its speed, while not that great, is actually in the perfect spot for a wallbreaker such as Kyubes. It has astronomical bulk, which is bolstered by its access and ability to reliably use Roost. Finally, it's able to attack from both sides of the spectrum without sacrificing power like many other mixed attackers. 170 / 120 offenses are nothing to scoff at, especially when one is fully invested while the other still takes advantage of a Life Orb. This leaves Kyubes with very few 'true' counters, which are honestly limited to bulky Mega Scizor, AV Conk (which is more of a check tbh), and Chansey should Kyubes lack Outrage. Other things that check it, such as Clef, Sylveon, and Keldeo. Are either bopped by a coverage move, or unable to switch in should 20% of their health be gone, which can be achieved through basic team support. I realize Kyubes has its flaws such as a poor matchup vs. offense (which can actually be remedied with a scarf set), and a poor defensive typing, but neither one is enough to prevent Kyubes from moving up, especially when 10/10 teams it faces have no counters for this thing. 'A' rank is a different story, however.

Also js but it's really funny when opponents send in their unevolved Metagross and expect a switch, only to get bopped by an Earth Power.

Regardless, move this monster up. Kyubes for A-
 

AM

is a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
LCPL Champion
Alright update time. Everything you see here has been changed in the OP to reflect as such.

Updates:

Landorus: A+ -> S
M-Sableye: S -> A+
Raikou: B+ -> A-
Doublade: C -> D
Tyrantrum: Unranked -> C+
Mienshao: Unranked -> D
Starmie: A- -> A
Hippowdon: A- -> A
Magnezone: A- -> B+
Forretress: Stays Unranked

Not going to bother with reasoning unless someone asks and if you ask I'll be answering in like 5-6 hours when I wake up lol. Consider the reasoning now is that we voted on them to be in that rank. Everything is obviously subject to change.

Anyways these are the rank changes based on current slate of discussion. Some things like Kyurem-B and Serperior didn't move simply cause it wasn't being voted on at the time so that'll be taken into account later in the week. I'm also going to use this post to announce that trc will be relinquishing his duties of managing the thread as a co-runner and I will be running it in regards to posting rank updates as he's been busy with other endeavors. He's still part of the ranking team though so luckily for him he'll get to enjoy all the lovely arguments the OU sub-forum has to offer :toast:. I'd like to thank trc for all his work previously running the thread dealing with my nagging which I know can be annoying at times so again, thanks trc. Not gonna make a new thread just going to keep this one going for the time being.

With that being said I'm opening the floor for "free talk". Basically no current set topic, just be civil, make reasonable nominations, and we'll take anything that warrants a rank change into account.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top