Media One Piece (spoilers!)

Mario With Lasers

Self-proclaimed NERFED king
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnus
I didn't like it much because the buildup felt wrong. It was pretty clear something was going on, but it wasn't as "powerful" as, say, Kyros's speech fighting Diamante. I was thinking less "oh boy something is coming up" and more "huh okay something's wrong, guess Oda will reveal something". Kinda tacked on.


But who the fuck cares, time for SSJ4.
 

Magistrum

DOITSU NO KAGAKU WA SEKAI ICHI
is a Top Artist Alumnus
"Gear Fourth Poundman" @o@ W-what if that gear has other modes onfsdgwerbgkjhdsf *fanboying intensifies*

IMO the greatest feature of this is that it could bounce off COA haki... I guess some people were right on the money when they said that it could be defense-oriented.


Also this got me wondering if luffy's arms are autonomous on that attack for some reason lol
 

Valmanway

My jimmies remain unrustled
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Probably not what I should be focusing on, but I'm curious about the backlash that Gear 4th will undoubtedly bring. Will be become super slim after his muscles deflate?
 
Proposal to move Luffy from OU to Ubers.


Also Python cannon or whatever it's called is essentially luffy's fist using geppo. Which is straight up fucking sick.

Man, this is by far the largest increase in power i've seen in any character in OP baring the difference in power caused by eating a Devil Fruit (Blackbeard).

Goddamn.

His power is so fucking much better than a logia now. Physical attacks no longer work regardless of haki or not. He can fucking fly via sheer fucking force of his body against goddamn air. A punch that is literally king punch levels of destruction (or at least the closest thing we've seen so far). His speed is absolutely insane, Mingo didn't even see the kick coming, it was a throwback to Kizaru's lightspeed kick. While not as fast as Kizaru's obviously, the effect on the opponent is nearly the same.

Since he claims to have used this many times to keep animals in check on the island, he clearly knows the drawbacks and can deal with them accordingly.

Also goddamn Luffy, he caused his CoA Haki to make a sick tatoo around his upper chest.

Fuck.



EDIT: Fuuuuuuuucccccckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
And with one chapter... "Dressrosa" goes from "that boring arc that wouldn't end" to "a really fucking amazing arc!!"


Also like Llama said-- for all those who doubted Luffy's strength... hahahahahahaha go suck it. Makes sense that Luffy would have this type of trump card backed up... considering that all the after-time-skip enemies he's faced up until now just haven't been at the level to push him to his limits.

Gear fourth... right now it seems to be a total upgrade from Gear 2-- Speed, Power, +Flight, and more flexible attacks. The only weakness I can see is that Luffy can't "Run" in a normal sense, and can't spin his body/change directions as quickly as a normal human (ie. +Speed -Agility compared to gear 2).

Also it worries me that if Luffy can cancel CoA's affects, that should mean other characters can too... though who knows, since Doffy is so shocked by it, and Doffy is experienced in the "powers that be"
 

TheFourthChaser

#TimeForChange
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
Also it worries me that if Luffy can cancel CoA's affects, that should mean other characters can too... though who knows, since Doffy is so shocked by it, and Doffy is experienced in the "powers that be"
We haven't seen that much Haki interaction but I feel like if it were something possible it wouldn't have been something introduced with Gear Fourth. Mangastream's translation made it sound like Luffy's Bounce (Bound?) Man were bouncing off the attacks, that's Devil Fruit exclusive so I don't think there's much reason to believe other characters can do similar things. At least not yet.
 
I read a theory somewhere that Luffy's potential weakness is that if he's somehow overpowered or takes a clean hit he could be sent bouncing around uncontrollably. Other possible drawbacks include inability to actively shut off Gear 4, and a total loss of elasticity for a short time afterwards.
 

TheValkyries

proudly reppin' 2 superbowl wins since DEFLATEGATE
While the things he's doing in 4th gear are ridiculously awesome... I'm not sold on the design. He looks like frankenluffy or whatever it was called from the Thriller Bark Arc. Any disappointment I had in the design reveal was quickly evaporated by the damn rubber hydraulic punch and the ability to fly. Fuck. YAAASSS.

As another side note: it has, technically speaking, been 5 years since the time skip in 2010 and Luffy has just now pulled out a new move he learned there and is currently by the looks of it utterly fodderizing doflamingo... Hopefully there's more to this fight but I'm still waiting for the straw hats to actually be tested in a fight... Like at all. I miss the days of usopps fight in the alabaster arc or luffys fight against jaguar.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
We haven't seen that much Haki interaction but I feel like if it were something possible it wouldn't have been something introduced with Gear Fourth. Mangastream's translation made it sound like Luffy's Bounce (Bound?) Man were bouncing off the attacks, that's Devil Fruit exclusive so I don't think there's much reason to believe other characters can do similar things. At least not yet.
In this case, I'm almost certain mangastream's translation is off.

Since all the one piece translations are different in English it's not as established, but in Japanese one of Luffy's catch phrases is 「効かない!!」 literally meaning "no effect!" Or "it doesn't work!!" A set phrase for whenever he reflects blunt attacks with his rubber. I'm pretty sure that's what he was saying here-- so Doffy was commenting on how Luffy was "Rubber" even when Doffy struck using CoA.

Of course hard to say w/o reading the Japanese. Maybe I'll go ahead and buy this week's Jump to see for sure-- this issue seems worthwhile to read in original. Comes out next Monday, and I got a long train ride the same day to spend golden week at the in-law's.

Speaking of golden week, that's coming up so expect Jump to take a break soon...


While the things he's doing in 4th gear are ridiculously awesome... I'm not sold on the design. He looks like frankenluffy or whatever it was called from the Thriller Bark Arc. Any disappointment I had in the design reveal was quickly evaporated by the damn rubber hydraulic punch and the ability to fly. Fuck. YAAASSS.

As another side note: it has, technically speaking, been 5 years since the time skip in 2010 and Luffy has just now pulled out a new move he learned there and is currently by the looks of it utterly fodderizing doflamingo... Hopefully there's more to this fight but I'm still waiting for the straw hats to actually be tested in a fight... Like at all. I miss the days of usopps fight in the alabaster arc or luffys fight against jaguar.
That's true, and Doffy's supposed to be a "big fish" of the whole world. If there were grades within the Shichibukai, he's amongst the top 3 (only ones arguably as strong are Kuma and Mihawk... Jinbe maybe approaching their level...). An "enforcer" amongst the Shichibukai.

He's a character that, if beaten by Luffy, totally changes Luffy's status in the New World. That said, the Strawhats beat ALL of his top crew, and with relative ease too. I Doffy's execs aren't rated top class new world vets than no one is. But they were all defeated, albeit only Zoro took out one of the very top.

They've (the Strawhats) already proven themselves not as New World Class, but top-of-new-world-class.
 

Aldaron

geriatric
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
It may not even be a mistranslation; we still don't know how haki works on a very granular level in regards to devil fruits.

We know that CoA haki lets you "hit the real body" of logia users. We also know, from when Smoker talked to Tashigi about Law's powers, haki could be used to defend against being sliced up by Law's fruit.

We don't know mechanics like, if you coated your fist in CoA haki and tried to hit a logia who was also using haki, if you would still hit the real body, or if there was some "haki power level" dynamic that allowed him to behave as a normal logia if his haki was stronger than yours.

You'll note here: http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47005-7/one-piece/chapter-574.html

Akainu mentions both Marco and Vista are haki users yet he is perfectly fine and there is no blood (not saying there couldn't have been blood and it wasn't shown, just that it wasn't shown).

And then here: http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47298-4/one-piece/chapter-575.html

Akainu is fine, but here: http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47298-5/one-piece/chapter-575.html

Akainu is fucked up and bleeding a shitton. It would make sense that Akainu's own haki was stronger thana Marco / Vista, so he was able to brush off their haki infused attacks, but his haki wasn't as stronger as WB's, so he got owned.

This could simply mean that DD used CoA, Luffy used CoA on himself, and because Luffy's haki is stronger, his rubber powers were able to be maintained in spite of DD's CoA.

EDIT:

I also want to clarify exactly what you guys are talking about.

http://readms.com/r/one_piece/784/2764/20

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/784/15

In the mangastream translation, it says "Even though he's hardened by Haki, he's still rubbery?!" and the mangapanda translation says "He's still rubber, in armament?!"

Those imply DD is talking about Luffy's own haki coating keeping his rubber status, not DD's Haki coated attack (he is hardened, not I am hardened, and in armament, not against armament)

I'm confused because Chou says

A set phrase for whenever he reflects blunt attacks with his rubber. I'm pretty sure that's what he was saying here-- so Doffy was commenting on how Luffy was "Rubber" even when Doffy struck using CoA.
which implies chou is talking about Luffy maintaining rubber in spite of DD's haki, but the translations have DD being surprised Luffy is still rubber in spite of Luffy's haki.
 
Last edited:

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
It may not even be a mistranslation; we still don't know how haki works on a very granular level in regards to devil fruits.

We know that CoA haki lets you "hit the real body" of logia users. We also know, from when Smoker talked to Tashigi about Law's powers, haki could be used to defend against being sliced up by Law's fruit.

We don't know mechanics like, if you coated your fist in CoA haki and tried to hit a logia who was also using haki, if you would still hit the real body, or if there was some "haki power level" dynamic that allowed him to behave as a normal logia if his haki was stronger than yours.

You'll note here: http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47005-7/one-piece/chapter-574.html

Akainu mentions both Marco and Vista are haki users yet he is perfectly fine and there is no blood (not saying there couldn't have been blood and it wasn't shown, just that it wasn't shown).

And then here: http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47298-4/one-piece/chapter-575.html

Akainu is fine, but here: http://www.mangapanda.com/103-47298-5/one-piece/chapter-575.html

Akainu is fucked up and bleeding a shitton. It would make sense that Akainu's own haki was stronger thana Marco / Vista, so he was able to brush off their haki infused attacks, but his haki wasn't as stronger as WB's, so he got owned.

This could simply mean that DD used CoA, Luffy used CoA on himself, and because Luffy's haki is stronger, his rubber powers were able to be maintained in spite of DD's CoA.

EDIT:

I also want to clarify exactly what you guys are talking about.

http://readms.com/r/one_piece/784/2764/20

http://www.mangapanda.com/one-piece/784/15

In the mangastream translation, it says "Even though he's hardened by Haki, he's still rubbery?!" and the mangapanda translation says "He's still rubber, in armament?!"

Those imply DD is talking about Luffy's own haki coating keeping his rubber status, not DD's Haki coated attack (he is hardened, not I am hardened, and in armament, not against armament)

I'm confused because Chou says



which implies chou is talking about Luffy maintaining rubber in spite of DD's haki, but the translations have DD being surprised Luffy is still rubber in spite of Luffy's haki.
That's because I'm assuming both translations are wrong based on the cues and flow of the story, as well as my own logic and former understanding of OP.

Eh... I'll just buy the comic tomorrow and let you know what I think after reading the Japanese.
 
I am going to play the devil's advocate here and say I am not really happy with the direction of introducing G4. Here are my reasons.

The first is that Luffy just stops being as much Luffy. He is not the Luffy he started the series as anymore. He's more generic, more like the cookie-cutter shounen mains Oda designed him to get away from. He now wins fights just by going super mode and curb-stomping the enemies. Not only is it less interesting, it abandons what Luffy used to be, what his character was created as. Seemingly in order to pander to the flashiness loving people.

His basic combat abilities are dragged in the mud by all these damned power-up modes. Luffy's basic strength and rubber abilities used to be strong. He kicked a shichibukai's ass with them. Never was there any indication that he lacked power. Then comes G2 and gives these abilities a massive boost. Over the time-skip he learns haki. But now? Now even G2, haki, strength, and rubber abilities are WEAK. Everyone deals with G2 these days. Luffy's G2 is a sacrificial lamb for every other new two-bit mini boss that pops up. And if Luffy's G2 is that weak, imagine how pathetic his basic strength and rubber abilities are.

This power inflation is the second thing I hate about this G4 progression. It was bad enough that Luffy's basic combat abilities, strength and stretching started to be used as a hype tool and couldn't accomplish anything anymore despite beating a Shichibukai. It's absolutely horrifying that G2 and CoA, which are a massive boost on top of those abilities, is going down the same road. This massively diminishes the credibility of Luffy's character.

It also reinforces the idea that it's the gomu gomu no mi that is truly powerful, not Luffy, when you make the devil fruit so insanely strong. G2 and G4 are basically making Luffy multiple times stronger, literally. Meanwhile, Sanji and Zoro don't have any stat boosters, this major, they rely on their basic physical capabilities. Sanji gets a damage boost with DJ & HM but nothing for speed, defense, force etc. The same goes for basically all Luffy's rivals and peers, most of which don't even have stat boosters let alone ones this large. If any of you have watched DBZ, it is like Goku was the only one who got an SSJ form and everyone else kept up with him without needing any. Only OP is a story with far more story and character integrity than DB, so it's far worse here. The fact that it's the main character the chopping block is really the icing on the cake.

But it's not. He just punches and kicks the enemy with more and more flashy super speed and superpower. The differences are minute, superficial almost. I'm not saying there are absolutely no differences. But they don't mean much in comparison with the similarities, like the differences between Gears and SSJ don't mean much in comparison with the similarities.

I've had a problem with G2 for a long time. It made his fights more boring, made his style as a character less enjoyable. It had the problems I mentioned above although to a lesser degree. I kept hoping Oda wouldn't continue down the same road of super speed/super power modes but here we are.
 
Last edited:

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I am going to play the devil's advocate here and say I am not really happy with the direction of introducing G4. Here are my reasons.

The first is that Luffy just stops being as much Luffy. He is not the Luffy he started the series as anymore. He's more generic, more like the cookie-cutter shounen mains Oda designed him to get away from. He now wins fights just by going super mode and curb-stomping the enemies. Not only is it less interesting, it abandons what Luffy used to be, what his character was created as. Seemingly in order to pander to the flashiness loving people.

His basic combat abilities are dragged in the mud by all these damned power-up modes. Luffy's basic strength and rubber abilities used to be strong. He kicked a shichibukai's ass with them. Never was there any indication that he lacked power. Then comes G2 and gives these abilities a massive boost. Over the time-skip he learns haki. But now? Now even G2, haki, strength, and rubber abilities are WEAK. Everyone deals with G2 these days. Luffy's G2 is a sacrificial lamb for every other new two-bit mini boss that pops up. And if Luffy's G2 is that weak, imagine how pathetic his basic strength and rubber abilities are.

This power inflation is the second thing I hate about this G4 progression. It was bad enough that Luffy's basic combat abilities, strength and stretching started to be used as a hype tool and couldn't accomplish anything anymore despite beating a Shichibukai. It's absolutely horrifying that G2 and CoA, which are a massive boost on top of those abilities, is going down the same road. This massively diminishes the credibility of Luffy's character.

It also reinforces the idea that it's the gomu gomu no mi that is truly powerful, not Luffy, when you make the devil fruit so insanely strong. G2 and G4 are basically making Luffy multiple times stronger, literally. Meanwhile, Sanji and Zoro don't have any stat boosters, this major, they rely on their basic physical capabilities. Sanji gets a damage boost with DJ & HM but nothing for speed, defense, force etc. The same goes for basically all Luffy's rivals and peers, most of which don't even have stat boosters let alone ones this large. If any of you have watched DBZ, it is like Goku was the only one who got an SSJ form and everyone else kept up with him without needing any. Only OP is a story with far more story and character integrity than DB, so it's far worse here. The fact that it's the main character the chopping block is really the icing on the cake.

But it's not. He just punches and kicks the enemy with more and more flashy super speed and superpower. The differences are minute, superficial almost. I'm not saying there are absolutely no differences. But they don't mean much in comparison with the similarities, like the differences between Gears and SSJ don't mean much in comparison with the similarities.

I've had a problem with G2 for a long time. It made his fights more boring, made his style as a character less enjoyable. It had the problems I mentioned above although to a lesser degree. I kept hoping Oda wouldn't continue down the same road of super speed/super power modes but here we are.

I personally feel like this posts reflects that you don't appreciate how Oda shapes the story of One Piece, nor the interestingness of Devil Fruit.

All of your bitching gets blown away by 1 little line said by Croc in the Ala Bastia arc, and has been a continued theme of OP throughout.

"The Devil Fruit powers can be strong, but they're only as good as the way you use them."

The assumption being that Croc is a veteran because he's "mastered" his powers, while Luffy is a greenhorn because he hasn't. In truth, we later find out that it took a long time for Luffy to master even the "basic" Gomu Gomu skills he has at the series starts-- but the assumption from Alabastia onwards is that he'll have to come up with new ways to use the devil fruit powers in order to get stronger.

Luffy gets through that fight on grit alone, and is only lucky that rubber > lightning against Enel-- the fact that he almost lost to lightning was a sign that he was too weak, and this is confirmed when aokiji stomps his ass. In the face of the overwhelmingly stronger CP9, Luffy's acquisition of Gear 2 & 3 demonstrates the need to evolve Gomu gomu's use in order to keep going forward-- just as Croc forewarned. Even so, Luffy hadn't done enough preparation, and the failure of his strength even with the gears at Shabondy and Marine HQ set the stage to scale the story and show the need for his training.

The ability to evolve the fruit powers is demonstrated repeatedly in the story, and Luffy is not the first character nor will be the last to use multiple modes or transformations to strengthen his powers. In fact, I believe Oda even said he gave Luffy rubber because it was so scalable-- appears weak, but depending on how you use it, it could be strong.

To me, it's not a surprise that Luffy would figure out a way to utilize the properties of Haki to enhance his powers.

G4 is creative, and also tactful-- unlike SSJ in dbz, it's not a straight up upgrade, nor is Luffy simply without weakness/limits. For instance, requiring Luffy to go g4 in order to fly (where even Sanji can do it normally) illustrates Luffy's imperfections compared to many other characters in a subtle way, even as Oda looks to make g4 impress. We know that Luffy is still weak to cutting attacks, and we have yet to be shown an ability that would protect him from akainu's magma.

In any case, what's clear is that the credit goes not to Gomu Gomu for just being a strong fruit, but Luffy for coming up with the ways to use it. In OP, the way to use a fruit also constitutes an individual's "strength." Taking it from the point where it made him throw terribly bad punches and make himself more vulnerable, to creating G4. Oda has made this mode carefully imo.
 
Last edited:

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Fat Aldaron --

K, I'm drunk on a train with my newly bought Jump in hand and looking at the page. Reading it, I see why stream & panda translated the way they did.

Dofla: 武装のまま、ゴム!!?
(Busou no mama, Gomu!!?)

Literally translated:

Dofla: Still as Armor, Rubber!!?

So as you can see, the wording really makes your brain want to interpret the words the way the translators wrote it--

But realistically, the actual phrasing is so vague and brief that it's hard to say for sure.

As OP fans, we know that we are not conditioned to think there's any reason Luffy couldn't be rubbery while using CoA. We've never had an explanation saying Luffy's not rubbery when using CoA, and Luffy uses his Gomu attacks all the time alongside CoA.

What IS strange to us is that even after Dofla smashes Luffy in his side with a CoA attack, Luffy bounces him off with his famous line--

Luffy: 効か〜〜〜〜ん!!!
Luffy: It doesn't work!!!

As if he were bouncing bullets off him in the first chapter on Alvida's ship.

To me, thinking logically it still makes more sense to interpret it the way I did, considering the vague wording of the actual text.

Still, I'm not a native speaker so it's probably worth asking one. There's a guy in our website engineering department who reads OP, and who I always nerd out with after the releases. I'll catch him on internal instant messenger tomorrow and ask his opinion.
 
Last edited:
Chou Toshio

I have always praised the usage of the devil fruit. I just dislike the implementation of it. There is no problem with the concept of gears itself, it is that they are overused and now we have a gear that pretty much overshadows the others and by extension, makes Luffy seem weak for needing stat boosters to face anyone noteworthy. Oda has not handled this mode carefully at all.

Those arcs you mentioned showed that Oda is completely capable of writing fights without superman mode nonsense and continuously come up with interesting challenges and scenarios that don't degrade into "activate super mode and destroy". He just stopped doing it eventually because he went for the superman mode route instead. That is what bothered me.

Luffy's original identity in terms of fighting prowess was literally a guy meant to move away from the kind of generic stuff you see in other manga through his rubber powers. Now we're instead seeing his rubber powers facilitating the generic stuff we see in other manga: a whole bunch of superspeed and superpower explosions flash crap and every fight basically just being about going into super mode and curbstomping the enemy with said superspeed and superpower. That's a massive change. It's not the same anymore. It's much closer to generic everyday shounen stuff and further from Luffy's original self. One quote in an interview with Oda talks about typical strong guys and strong and cool abilities and how Luffy was deliberately created to get away from it. It's literally just talking about a main character who was supposed to avoid these kinds of traps of degenerating into generically manga and anime superpowers. Now his fights are all about superspeed and superpower, going into super modes and blitzfesting the enemy. They used to be far, far from being about that but now they are.

I won't bitch without offering alternatives though. Oda should have treated the power scale sensibly. As in avoid the stupid ridiculous enormous power jumps because they do nothing but satisfy the flash crowd. Keep Luffy's base stats respectable instead of grinding them into the ground and making them into complete trash thus forcing these insane stat multipliers to come out. Make the "power-ups" respectable but not huge. It is not hard because Oda himself has done it; look at something like Zoro's flying slashes for example. They were a nice addition but not some ridiculous power jump at all. They didn't cause any issues down the line, nothing. They were simply a perfectly fine ability.

A technique doesn't have to be huge and flashy to be effective. It doesn't need to be an enormous power boost to be dramatically effective. It simply doesn't. That's really all that needs to be said. The idea that it does is nonsense. It's what facilitates power and spectacle creep and enormous vertical power-ups. If Oda was going to do the whole "I created this technique to protect my friends now I'm 500% faster!" it is a good idea to not throw it in the trash because Oda wanted to fake hype some third-rate characters like Monet, Hyouzou, and Caesar. At the very least keep it powerful. But Oda can't even do that. He's now dumped G2 so he can move on to the next superman mode because that's what the flash crowd craves.

I can't be the only one upset at this. I'm just the most emotionally invested in what used to be my favorite character.
 

Aldaron

geriatric
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Chou Toshio

I have always praised the usage of the devil fruit. I just dislike the implementation of it. There is no problem with the concept of gears itself, it is that they are overused and now we have a gear that pretty much overshadows the others and by extension, makes Luffy seem weak for needing stat boosters to face anyone noteworthy. Oda has not handled this mode carefully at all.
Just wanted to talk about this specific part of your post.

The bolded part isn't necessarily true. You'll note a specific concept Oda emphasized in this arc more than any other arc: stamina.

Law repeatedly mentioned that he needed a certain amount of stamina to do x, y, or z.

So now we have Luffy and his gears. Gear 2 is a HUGE increase in speed and agility and a minor increase in power. Gear 3 is a decrease in speed / agility and a HUGE (bigger than gear 4 because he decided to use gear 3 to break noah instead of gear 4) increase in power.

From the information we have so far, gear 4 is a huge increase in speed, power, and defense. It could be a gear 2 upgrade altogether.

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. He trained for 2 years on the island and drastically reduced the strain / side effects from gear 2 / 3. His normal state is a basic fighting state, and gear 2 / 3 are techniques to get upgrades that cost some but not much stamina now. Gear 4 could be a total upgrade over gear 2 and gear 2 could still maintain all of its utility if the stamina required to use gear 2 is drastically less than gear 4.

Stamina is an additional dimension that adds to the discussion for the utility of a technique. Even if gear 4 is completely better than gear 2, if Luffy can only use it 2 or 3 times for a small amount of time, gear 2 is still very useful because he can clearly use it much more often now.

I also question why you are separating stat booster from devil fruit usage. It seems a bit arbitrary to be okay with, for example, Akainu / Kizaru / Aokiji using their devil fruits through the ENTIRETY of the war, however they decided to use it, and not be okay with Luffy using his rubber fruit to give himself a "boost".

Do you just want him to be bouncy all the time? There is no difference to me to Luffy using the plasticity of his cells to pump blood faster to get faster and Aokiji increasing his evasiveness by creating a hole in his body to avoid a Haki thrust from WB. There is no difference between Luffy using Gear 4 to fly and Smoker using his fruit to fly. There is no difference between Luffy increasing his muscle mass for a power boost and Akainu super heating his fist to increase his power to internally burn Ace's organs.
 

TheFourthChaser

#TimeForChange
is a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis a Two-Time Past SPL Championis a Past WCoP Champion
Isn't Haki a stat booster as well? What about training of any kind?

I don't see why "base stats" matter because for a main character to have high enough base stats means that you'll breeze through arcs without training or trouble. While this has totally happened and has been entertaining in One Piece, I'd say it was a boring idea in general. Is it not better for a character to overcome obstacles, in this case lower base stats, through training various techniques? Being bad ass through ridiculously high base stats is better left to a series like One Punch Man.

Luffy is a good balance of high base stats and creative powers. Gears weren't activated by some emotional trigger that awakened an innate ability (Super Saiyan) or bullshitted into the story (Shinigami-Hollow-Fullbring-Quincy) but through some pretty smart ideas of "what can I do with Rubber?". This hasn't turned into power up and win because that hasn't happened. Who was the last character that wasn't totally fodder and lost solely because Luffy revved up, Blueno? Lucci/Luffy fought to the point of exhaustion, the entire SH crew had to use teamwork to take down Moria, and Gears alone failed to protect people in Saobody/Impel Down/War. Before Gears we either had Luffy being clearly superior to the antagonist or a huge exploitable weakness (Enel fruit match up and Crocodile's Water problem). If anything I think that Gears has coincided with an increase of strategy in fights, we can't have large exploits forever.

Edit: Also, Gears were written into the story 9-10 years ago. Creating an update now really isn't so bad lol.
 
Last edited:

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
And let's remember, G4 already has shown itself to have some pretty big flaws (besides the obvious stamina toll it'll bring).

The way I see it:
+power
+speed
+defense
-agility
--control

Agility and control are the two areas Luffy loses out in-- the ability to quickly change directions, turn his body, and the ability to make pinpoint movements or stop movements.

To me, these seem like pretty major disadvantages...

In actual fist fights, agility is the more important determiner, not speed.

Jump Rope is a much more useful performance trainer for a fighter than squats or sprints, as no amount of speed will help without light feet and quick turns.

Humans will always have the best offense and defense facing the opponent head on. The most basic strategy inany martial art is to move to an angle to gain offensive advantage-- where you are tackling the opponent head on, while the opponent is receiving the attack at an angle-- attacking from behind is even better. Not being able to turn quickly is a HUGE disadvantage, as Dofla's kick (that Luffy couldn't respond to) demonstrated

Luffy can probably compensate for this flaw in close combat with his "python", sending a twisted punch when he can't turn fast enough. but a directed punch will always be weaker than a full frontal attack from the opponent.

Of course, Speed matters more (relative to agility) when fights use more ground (as they do in OP), but that leaves G4 as a midrange/long range fight style from a character who's usually wants to get closer to attack.

Gear 4's flaws become much worse when dealing with an opponent who's faster, or even the same speed.

Can you imagine G4 against Kizaru?

Luffy's inability to stop or change directions would leave him constantly being attacked from the back, and completely unable to defend himself. Against Kizaru, G4 would be a huge liability, and even if slower, g2's agility would be much better as then Luffy could at least respond to each attack and turn to face Kizaru head on.

G4 does seem to have huge advantages against slower opponents though, as seen in him mashing Dofla (who has no speed augments like "soru", a fast Zoan, or kizaru's light).

G4 also seems like it'd be majorly helpful against the much slower black beard or Akainu.

But against Kizaru... G4 would be road kill, and I don't think Kizaru will be the only opponent faster than g4.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top