-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
-
Congrats to the winners of the 2023 Smog Awards!
VGC 2015: Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer
- Thread starter idiotfrommars
- Start date
- Status
Ludicolo IMO is more of a soft check to rain but if I were to use it, Assault Vest with Swift Swim is by far the best way to run Ludi outside of rain but i guess rain dish could work since youre using it in Trick Room. Mega Camel can't really "stop" sun teams but since I'm assuming you're using Trick Room, that usually fares pretty well against sun. Camel is good for after TR is set up but by itself, it can't really stop them.
Camerupt is a bit of a bitch but it's not stopping it single handed. Char-Y and Venusaur can't touch it, along with every other competent Chlorophyll mon. Fought an Ancientpower one not long ago; I admit it was a dick. Sun teams typically pack a Ground mon since they pair so well with Char-Y, but Mega Camel doesn't have to worry about Water very much for once. That Heat Wave's quite nasty in Sun too. If it's not in TR though, it gets pummeled to death kinda quick. So I'd say it's a threat on about the same level as Heatran.
Ludicolo, does well against Water mons, doesn't care about Thunder unless the paralysis kicks in, but is terrified of Talonflame, Hurricane, STAB Poison moves, Tentacruel, and Freeze-Dry. Talonflame, Volcarona, and Moltres can all function well under Rain, Hurricane Tornadus/Dragonite destroy Ludicolo, and Ferrothorn walls the living fuck out of it. Lapras can tank a Giga Drain and introduce you to Freeze-Dry for a 4x SE hit.
Terrakion neatly handles all of that though, so Ludicolo is the same story of "Threatening, but not a one-man bulldozer".
Would you say it fits as a rain check for TR though? Obviously I won't be relying on it entirely to stop rain, but a gothitelle/ludicolo lead could shut down politoed leads pretty quickly I think. I'm just trying to cover my bases so I don't get messed up by weather teams.
Btw rest of the team (as of right now) is going to be Camerupt, Aromatisse, Gothitelle, Hariyama
Oh, right, Trick Room. Sorry xD
Amoonguss. Slow as snail shit, Spore for constant pressure, and good bulk + typing. You can Rage Powder with it too if you want. Spore also threatens Aegislash, if it doesn't get a Sub in your face, which is important since it literally shits on Aromatisse, Gothitelle, and Hariyama, and can stop heat Wave with Wide Guard. Bulky grass does well against Rain in general.
Ferrothorn, dickish typing, rain only makes it stronger, and it's the among the absolute slowest pokemon in the game. Leech Seed > Aegislash. Power Whip keeps the heat on, and Iron Head can troll pretty well and isn't dependant on your foe's Speed stat. It doesn't fear Hurricane much either. It's similar to Mega Venusaur in the sense that it can become a tankish win condition if you eliminate the few things that deal heavy damage to it. Also gives you a check to Amoonguss, which with abysmal Speed and Spore, is just as nasty to you as it is to your foe.
Thanks so much!
Sup guys. After a 2 or 3 month (thanks MH4U) hiatus, I've decided to come back and play some competitive Pokemon again. Is there any important current meta knowledge I should know off?
I think I might of solved the PerishTrap Mega Gengar problem.
There IS a counter! Thank you Soviet Russia. <3
And now, for my next biggest issue: Follow Me Friend Guard Clefairy + DD MegaMence. I lack Blizzard, Icy Wind, and Pixilate Hyper Voice so it's kind of a dickish pair. Should I cinge and run Icy Wind, or is there a more entertaining answer than Sylveon?
There IS a counter! Thank you Soviet Russia. <3
And now, for my next biggest issue: Follow Me Friend Guard Clefairy + DD MegaMence. I lack Blizzard, Icy Wind, and Pixilate Hyper Voice so it's kind of a dickish pair. Should I cinge and run Icy Wind, or is there a more entertaining answer than Sylveon?
flargananddingle
L+R+START
anyone know a spread for snarl scraggy? Does it run relaxed/sassy or does it still forgo sp atk?
Scrafty has a base special attack of 45 and Snarl a base power of 55, which is lowered even further because it hits multiple opponents. Use it for the SAtk drops, not for the damage output.
Intimidate + Snarl + Fake Out + Assault Vest is very effective, but I doubt that it's worth it to invest anything in special attack.
If you decide to use a -speed nature, make sure that you outspeed min speed Aegislash to Snarl it before it attacks.
Depending on the moveset I would either go with Adamant or Careful and calc what you need it to survive for your team.
Gastrodon is another Pokémon that you might want to outspeed.
Super Fang is an option, if you aren't content with it's offensive presence.
Last edited:
If you want info on Snarl Scrafty, I know just the guy to talk to.
cannibal get your bitch ass out here.
You're the one who came up with this set, you dork. xP
Anyway, this is the Scrafty that I used. Pretty basic as far as EVs go. I used this on a TR team, so it was Brave with 0 speed. Kind of depends on your team as far as nature and such, though.
Scrafty (Intimidate) @ Assault Vest | (Detroit) (M)
Brave, 252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Sp. Def
Drain Punch, Fake Out, Crunch, Snarl.
Snarl was fun. :)
flargananddingle
L+R+START
I like this but I'll probably go slightly bulkier in the ev spread (physically) and probably knockoff>crunch. What do you think about fully defensive fake out/ snarl/ drain punch/superfang? Obvs the meta isn't built for stall, but intimidate/snarl/scrafty natural bulk I feel like it could be a great supporter, especially considering how few supporters can rock AV
It actually did have a mostly supportive role on my team. I used it in XY, so Super Fang wasn't a thing. I actually didn't even know it gets Super Fang now.. I might have to try that out. It could definitely work, imo. The overall damage output with the set I posted is rather low, so Super Fang might help with that.
flargananddingle
L+R+START
I mean, with max HP/ Max Def a -1 terrakion is only doing like 50-70% (would give exacts but I already changed the poke in the damage calc and too lazy)
This
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Scrafty: 164-194 (95.3 - 112.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
Really isnt terrible, since that's before the intimidate..I wonder if superfang is worth forgoing the ability to knock off items. I mean, even if it's totally uninvested and doing piss damage, is it more useful to knock your opponent's down to potential KO range or to knock off an item (and potentially get a SE hit at least.)?
Plus since it's so slow, it would be a REAL pain in the ass for trick room to deal with as well. It's not taking on mawile anytime soon but still.
flargananddingle
Scrafty should run 12 Defense EVs with max HP to guarantee that it can survive a -1 CB Brave Bird from Talonflame. Even with Snarl an Adamant nature is still recommended as outspeeding Conkeldurr is pretty useful, and Scrafty's Special Attack is garbage anyway. Knock Off is always better than Crunch, as it can be stronger and has actual utility. AV is better than Lum since you aren't running Protect. Don't run Super Fang, Snarl or Ice Punch are better. Scrafty isn't complicated.
Scrafty should run 12 Defense EVs with max HP to guarantee that it can survive a -1 CB Brave Bird from Talonflame. Even with Snarl an Adamant nature is still recommended as outspeeding Conkeldurr is pretty useful, and Scrafty's Special Attack is garbage anyway. Knock Off is always better than Crunch, as it can be stronger and has actual utility. AV is better than Lum since you aren't running Protect. Don't run Super Fang, Snarl or Ice Punch are better. Scrafty isn't complicated.
flargananddingle
L+R+START
I wasn't suggesting a -speed nature for added sp atk, I was thinking more along the lines of being a safety against TR; the added snarl "damage" just comes along with it. Also Mach Punch makes the conk argument pretty moot.
I disagree on superfang though, as it's a pretty nice thing to have in your back pocket in case of a burn etc. It also allows scrafty to soften things up without a ton of investment. I'm looking at it more like a pocket knife providing:
Fake Out
debuff
TR security
AV+recovery
Granted, more damage > less damage, but utilizing superfang would allow more bulk investment allowing it to stick around that much longer.
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Scrafty: 156-187 (90.6 - 108.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
I personally would rather survive this
-1 252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 124 Def Scrafty: 140-166 (81.3 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And ko back
76+ Atk Scrafty Drain Punch vs. -1 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 152-182 (91 - 108.9%)
The 252/252+ calcs were just an example of bulk
trying to make scrafty take on terrakion is wasteful. scrafty doesn't have good enough attack to get away with running less than max attack really. wasting that much investment for a chance to beat a pokemon is just ridiculous. there are plenty of pokemon which beat terrakion which have good synergy with scrafty, a single pokemon doesn't have to do everything. i was just condensing the information and correcting some small errors.
www.eggyemporium.com/slider/worlds-2014-9th-place-report/ has a snarl scrafty spread from vgc14.
I can't reach NB for some reason. Does anybody know another VGC 15 speed tier list that has everything that is remotely viable listed in it?
Iirc, there is one on oldman VGC. On mobile so I can't link you, but just try to google oldman VGC, you'll probably find it.
I have a spreadsheet in my sig that I use for my stuff. Doesn't list actual pokemon like Scarf Lando-T or Jolly Breloom and such; uses actual base Speeds + Scarf/DD Boosts + Tailwind boosts + Icy Wind drops + what you need to outrun X target with your own Tailwind. So it basically has everything from TR Shuckle to Max Speed Ninjask in Tailwind. Doesn't have stuff like 76 Speed Modest Sylveon and such though.
Spreadsheet.
Does no one really use Sand Force Landorus anymore, even on Sandstorm teams?
Last edited:
You'll probably see some here and there but full weather teams aren't really that great anymore, they're really more of a secondary option for a team. Sand Force boosts only like Earth Power and Rock Slide so it isn't really that great. Even in Sandstorm teams, you're much better off with Excadrill since the speed is more important than power. Not to mention with Pokemon like Terrakion and Virizion, Tyranitar's usage has dropped heavily which effects the usage of sand mode in teams.
Weather got nerfed in gen 6, most people run teams that run weather teams use mons that synergize with or without weather benefiting them. I had a rain team that didn't need rain to do its job all the time, sandforce kind of needs sand up as long as possible
- Status