Resource RU Viability Ranking Thread: Abomasnow and Slowking Discussion

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

I know this was suggested kind of recently but nothing came so far so I'm doing it again.

Delphox -> A-
This fox here can deal with quite a decent amount of the tier except something named Houndoom. The most effective set currently IMO is the scarf set (speaking of which Delphox should be added to the scarf users on the role compendium) which can quite efficiently deal with stuff known as Cobalion/durant. It also can trick/switcheroo (yes it gets both for some reason. Good going gf!) stuff like aromatisse or alomomola which sometimes may want to switch in. However it also has a cool cm colbur berry set that is quite effective against defensive teams. Obviously it has its flaws such as being cockblocked by Houndoom, scrafty (scrafty isn't a problem if you have dazzling gleam but otherwise is), and jellicent, as well as an SR weakness but overall it can deal with a pretty decent chunk of the meta and thus worthy of an A- rank.

 

[Double01]

After playing a good number of games with this mon I'm suggesting:

Vivillon From C rank moved up to B rank.

Obviously with the 4x weakness to rock that hazard control, specifically SR, is a must for vivillon. But give this pokemon just 1 free turn in the late game and it will be the end for your opponent. While 1 free turn may be difficult in some cases, its speedy near 100% sleep powder allows it to set up quite easily. Its 89 Speed is not only great for getting off a sleep powder but also not being revenge killed. At +1 basically only 2 commonly used scarfers will revenge kill it, Delphox and Durant. It's 90 Base special attack is deceivingly low, but when it equipped with 91% accurate hurricanes and a sky plate it hits quite hard. For instance at +2, even a mon that resists such as Tyrantrum is ohkoed after SR and at +1 it ohkoes Cobalion. Plus it has the added benefit of getting that nice 30% confuse rate which it can abuse behind a substitute. It has the bulk to live an ice shard from Glalie and resists other priority such as mach punch from Hitmonlee.

With the right support this is one of the scariest set up sweepers in the tier and is definitely worth a higher ranking than C.

Some replays:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-70875 - It has the sweep if no poison but still does work
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ru-70991 - K i miss click qd instead of sleep powder at the end but it had the sweep lol
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ru-70764

 

[Cheryl.]

Got a few noms to make:

Spritomb from B to B+: You may think Spiritomb is outclassed by other Pursuit users like Houndoom and Sneasel, but Spritomb has a lot of things going for it. It's typing makes it wall Fighting types, something that Houndoom and Sneasel cannot do. It also walls Psychic types like Meloetta and can proceed to Pursuit trap them. Infiltrator is a useful ability so it can hit mons behind Sub, like Braviary. Spiritomb can also attempt a sweep with it's Calm Mind set. Problems are Fairy-types and low speed and it's only recovery is Resttalk, but Spritomb is more than worthy of B+ rank.

Hitmonlee from A- to A/A+: What made this thing A- in the first place? Reckless-boosted High Jump Kicks hit super hard, and it's Unburden set isn't too bad either, although I prefer Reckless. It has a lot of versatility, from the Life Orb set to the Choice Scarf set to even a Reversal set. It may have some problems breaking through bulky Psychic and Ghost types like Jellicent and Musharna, and it's speed is subpar without a Scarf or Unburden boost, but Hitmonlee is definitely worthy of a rise.

Mega Glailie from A+ to S: This thing is probably the best mega right now, or maybe behind Steelix. Mega Glailie is very good right now, as not much wants to take Refigerate-boosted Double Edges except for a few mons. Glailie also has Ice Shard to pick off weakened threats and force out Flygon. Glailie also has some nice utility options, like Spikes and Super Fang. He can also run Freeze-Dry to kill Water types like Alomolmola or Jellicent, but it only kills them if they're weakened. Problems with Mega Glailie are it's Stealth Rock weakness, which can make it easy to wear down thanks to Double Edge recoil. It also has trouble breaking through bulky waters and steel types like Cobalion and Mega Steelix, but I think Mega Glailie is deserving of S rank.

 

[Froggyboy]

While I agree with Spirit and Hitmon, I can't see Mega Glalie being S rank, tbh I see it moving down to be more reasonable imo. With the presence of Pokemon like Cobalion and Jellicent everywhere, spamming its Refrigerate moves is pretty risky. Secondly while Explosion and Double Edge are really strong, they either kill Glalie or severely shorten its lifespan, leaving it open to revenge killers. Plus it is facing a bit of competition for a strong Ice type in Sneasel which is gaining more popularity as of late. And with Fighting types also being all over the place, it finds a hard time to get in for free, especially with its Rock weakness and average at best 80/80/80 defensive stats.
Overall, Glalie is a good Pokemon, but more close to A rank if any change was going to be made for it.

 

[ss234]

Mega glalie has far too many problems to be S rank. Cobalion and jellicent are arguably the two best pkmn in the metagame and both deal with glalie very well, but on top of this glalie does not offer anything defensively. Offensive teams are built off of resistances, and while glalie does do some important things such as checking flygon with ice shard and being an excellent nuke button, the fact is it's very difficult to fit onto teams due to the lack of defensive synergy it offers and therefore is not an S rank pkmn. A+ or A is fine for glalie imo, if anything it could be A because I don't think it's on a par with mons like flygon, viriz and melo that are super threatening but also offer a lot defensively but I can understand why it's A+.

I feel like hitmonlee is also fine where it is. Jellicent and bulky fairies like aromatisse and togetic are quite popular right now due to flygon and scrafty, so hitmonlee can't simply click hjk and watch things die as more and more teams are running hard stops to it. As a spinner, it has difficulty breaking through jellicent and tomber. The metagame is quite fast paced atm with mons like cobalion, virizion and flygon being v common so hitmonlee finds it difficult to keep up against more offensive squads. A super strong mach punch is really nice for killing weakened cobalion etc. but lee is just too slow and fatter teams are running bulky fairies that lee struggles to deal with.

I agree on tomber as it has a lot of utility in this meta. Infiltrator wisp is really nice for cobalion, although it does lose to scrafty. Dealing with melo is also a major boon as the subcm set is very threatening vs. most teams and tomb hard stops it as most are running psyshock and focus blast now. B+ is probably about right for it because it's quite specialised in what it deals with, it can be worn down quite easily and gets ruined by fairies and scrafty.

 

[atomicllamas]

Moved Cinccino to E as Omastar offense is terrible right now and Cobalion is really good, also moved Vivillon to B rank as per Double01's post on the previous page.

 

[aVocado]

Virizion to A from A+: As a grass-type I think it's outclassed by Tangrowth, and as a physical sweeper by Cobalion. With Pokemon like Fletchinder, Sneasel, Durant, and even Sigilyph being very good atm (maybe not so much Sigilyph as the other mons), it really struggles to hold the A+ position imo. The same mons mess up with Tangrowth, but Tangrowth's bulk can let it survive a strong SE hit, and retaliate back with a Leaf Storm which with LO is a fucking nuke. It also has Regenerator to help a lot with longevity. I also see it as a better check to Jellicent and Alomomola mainly because it doesn't mind Scald as much as Virizion does (even when it has Lum Berry).

Tangrowth to A+ from A: Mostly explained above, but Tangrowth's LO set is incredible. It checks Jellicent and Alomomola while also having Sleep Powder and your choice of Knock Off or some other moves like HP Fire or Giga Drain. I personally use Leaf Storm/Focus Blast/Knock Off/Sleep Powder. It's kinda walled by Amoonguss but it doesn't mind that too much because the utility Sleep Powder and Knock Off provide in addition to the sheer power of Leaf Storm and Focus Blast's coverage serves it well. At worst case scenario it can tank Pokemon like Flygon and Rhyperior (sans Megahorn), and at best case scenario it'll be breaking the opponent's team while regaining HP via Regen. All that and it also has bulk to take some SE hits:

(This is against the spread I'm using):
252 Atk Life Orb Sneasel Icicle Crash vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 242-289 (65.5 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO --- Leaf Storm OHKOs
252+ Atk Fletchinder Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 112 HP / 0 Def Tangrowth: 222-264 (60.1 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO ----- Sleep Powder
admittedly it kinda eats shit from Durant's X-Scissor tho.


I'm also torn between Flygon being in S and staying in A+. On one side, it's a fucking amazing defogger and not a bad choice scarf/band user with good typing/ability/overall stats/STABs/u-turn. On the other, there are two Ice Shard users who are pretty good right now and a bunch of Pokemon that outspeed/check it.

 

[EonX]

Virizion: I can see this happening. To be fair, I do believe Stone Edge to be the better option on SD right now simply because Amoonguss isn't THAT common atm, Qwilfish is already eating shit from Leaf Blade, and Drap is already getting rocked by CC. That being said, it's a simple case of being outlcassed a little bit. Tangrowth is the easier Grass-type to use right now and Cobalion is a top 3 Pokemon easily right now. Both fill similar roles to Virizion, but it still has use. Being able to comprise the SD sweeper / offensive Grass-type role into one is certainly valuable for some teams, but I do (unfortunately) feel as though Tangrowth and Cobalion have better overall utility over Virizion right now. As much as it pains me to say this, it probably needs to drop to A rank.

Flygon: I'm actually going to do this. I'm nominating this thing to S rank. Flygon is so fucking easy to throw on a team right now. It has a set for pretty much any role on a balance, bulky offense, or hyper offense team. Its typing, stats, ability, and STABs just let it do so much right now. It's, bar none, the best Defogger in the tier right now and it can check so many mons with its defensive set. Rhyperior, Houndoom, Mega Camerupt, Emboar, Jolteon, and Delphox just to name a few. And that's just one set. Flygon can run Scarf and Band sets pretty well. Its Scarf set is perhaps one of the most underrated sets in terms of influence. Scarf Delphox has risen in part due to Scarf Flygon and Scarf Rotom-C has dropped in popularity because of Scarf Flygon. Band sets have an amazing Speed tier for a Band / Specs user and the STABs to back up the power. As if that wasn't enough, it can run an offensive Defog set consisting of special attacks to catch some usual responses off-guard. And there's also the fact that Jolteon, perhaps the best Electric-type in the tier, is forced to run HP Ice to avoid being a free switch-in for Flygon. Flygon has the movepool, the stats, the ability, and the typing that are just right for it in RU to make a major influence and be super easy to use on almost any team. While there are certainly ways to handle Flygon, I feel like its sheer influence, effectiveness, and how easy it is to splash on a team make it worthy of S rank.

For the record, I agree with Tangrowth. Have nothing to add on to what Arikado said...

 

[Froggyboy]

to A-:
Imma keep this short. Solid Fire and Electric check, checks Cobalion and stops its momentum since VS doesn't affect it, hits really hard, gets up Rocks, and fits onto a lot of bulky teams. Flygon and Jelly hurt, but I still think its deserving of A-

 

[Senpai D.M]

I agree with Flygon moving to S
Its just a great glue mon to add to any team / playstyle. A very good defog user as well as scarfer to revenge kill or u turn out. Band is also neat to suprise teams with lol. It can run mix to wear down counters like steel types or drop dracos.

 

[Cheryl.]

I agree with Flygon to S. Its so easyto put onto teams with its good speed,attack,and bulk. Defog is also very beneficial as well. offensive sets are also pretty nice to wear down teams. Overall, Flygon is just a very good pokemon so Flygon to S.

 

[phantom]

Added Trevenant to new pkmn Rank and removed Cobalion due to it being UU now.

You're free to discuss changes to the list after a day or two. I know for sure that Cobalion moving up changes A LOT...

 

[QueenOfHax]

While I agree with Spirit and Hitmon, I can't see Mega Glalie being S rank, tbh I see it moving down to be more reasonable imo. With the presence of Pokemon like Cobalion and Jellicent everywhere, spamming its Refrigerate moves is pretty risky.

With Cobalion gone from the tier there is nothing stopping Mega Glalie from being moved to S rank. As for Jellicent, well:
252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jellicent: 335-395 (82.9 - 97.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Froggyboy]

I wouldn't be so hasty. While Cobalion leaving is good for it, I still don't think it is S-rank. Cobalion wasn't Glalie's only problem, there is also its horrible defensive typing, average at best bulk, the fact that it kills its self in order to wallbreak against stuff like Alomomola and Bronzong, and there are still viable checks to this thing, like Emboar, Durant, MegaLix(which got a whole lot better), etc. And while Explosion is cool, the same could be said about Lickilicky, which can just explode and nuke any non-Ghost. I'm not saying banded Lickilicky is viable, but using Explosion as an argument to get past its checks and counters is pretty dumb, since you are still dying, so the Pokemon you kill isn't really needed anymore.

 

[tehy]

i would be hasty, personally

Alomomola hates freeze dry, just hit it with one after rocks and immediately switch out, it's 2HKOed after

phys.D jelli isn't a huge fan either

what else even walls this monstrosity? registeel dislikes EQ, zonger isn't even that amazing, i guess escavalier takes a hit or two

edit:

252 Atk Refrigerate Mega Glalie Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Steelix: 99-117 (27.9 - 33%) -- 1.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

i purposely didn't include MegaLix. Especially if it's not Mega Evolved (if it is, it can be hit as it evolves and SR's)

 

[Froggyboy]

Firstly, Mega Steelix counters Glalie pretty well. Secondly, the no counters thing doesn't always mean S. Look at Emboar, hits extremely hard and has basically no counters, what makes it A? The fact that it kills itself, has average bulk, ok speed, and its typing defensively isn't all that great. Now lets look at Glalie, its typing, while good offensively, is horrible defensively. Its bulk doesn't help either, and neither does it speed, leaving it open to revenge killers like Durant, Houndoom, and the previously mentioned Emboar.
Glalie just isn't S imo, and the fact that it has little to no guarenteed switch-ins doesn't change that.

 

[Cheryl.]

I think Trevenant should be B+/B rank. Firstly, don't use Harvest, because Trev doesn't have the bulk to take many hits. So it's niche is as a Choice Band wallbreaker that hits pretty hard and can cripple walls with Trick, which it does pretty well. Trev isn't amazing, but it has some unique factors that make it cool to use.Also, Sneasel should rise, as one of it's checks, Cobalion, has left the tier.

 

[Lord Death Man]

We should wait on Trev, but I don't see a HUGE point in it being B when Tangrowth and Gourgeist XL both exist and band Tangrowth has never been able to gain any level of popularity.

Anyways I have a real nomination to make.

Exploud for A-. This thing should have been A- with Cobalion here, and Cobalion was only barely holding it back because it could take a single Boomburst once and KO back. It's pretty low effort to get this monster in on most teams and just get a kill. You're more or less limited to Bronzong, Bouf, Registeel, Cradily Megalix and Rhyperior as defensive checks, and with a single layer of Spikes (Accelgor effortlessly gets up spikes for offense, and Qwilfish can do it pretty easily for balance) Megalix and Rhyperior get 3HKO'd while being unable to KO you in their sole free turn, and spdef Bronzong gets 4hko'd while only 3hkoing you. Even played by someone who doesn't know what they're doing, Exploud can force a trade every time it comes in and that's *without* relying on it's coverage. Cradily and Registeel barely fit on any team that isn't pure stall, so good luck there. Importantly, only Cradily reliably checks it while also having reliable recovery.

Further, if it's at full HP, Exploud can be difficult for offense to OHKO and it will almost always get a trade if played decently. Only like Meloetta and Virizion can take the hit and KO back, and there's no reason Exploud can't just switch out and try again later. It makes running slower wallbreakers a HUGE risk for offense as well, and is part of the reason l to why I feel specific, semi-popular stallbreakers are unusable. In all fairness, this isn't Exploud's best matchup, but it does very well here regardless.

This really probbaly should have happened a while back ago lol, not sure how or why Cobalion held it back because, honestly, even getting a cobalion down to 40% (low roll on boomburst) could pretty easily win you matches, but that's irrelevant now I guess. The main thing it has over LO/Specs Meloetta is that Spiritomb/Skuntank/Houndoom can't even revenge it, which is why this is a nomination for A- and not A+, Meloetta's rank. Meloetta should be S but I'm not going to make that nomination right now (how was cobalion holding back a pokemon it couldn't switch into and couldn't even OHKO though?)

EDIT: I know this is early but I was actually going to make this nomination before Cobalion rose out.

 

[Kyuzeth]

A little thing regarding the portraits on the banner: how about Jellicent takes Cobalion's place with an equally majestic, gentlemanly portrait? It's one of the top threats in RU right now and looks super classy.

Exploud (B+) -> A- | I support the nomination Lord Death Man made. The reasons are all there: Specs Boomburst is fucking insane and it has good enough coverage to hit a large portion of the tier supereffectively. It does have its weaknesses, mainly being somewhat slow and Normal not being the best defensive typing, but Exploud is definitely good enough to hit the A- mark. Up to A- with this guy.

Tangrowth (A) -> A+ | I'm throwing my support behind Tangrowth's rise as well. Tangrowth has an excellent mix of power and bulk, letting it perform a myriad of roles to great effect: AV utility attacker with variable coverage, physically defensive, Choice Specs, Choice Band (perhaps?) and most importantly, the Life Orb set, which boasts great utility, coverage AND power thanks to Tangrowth's access to Sleep Powder. There's so much Tangrowth can do whenever it's on the battlefield, be it dismantling a threat with Sleep Powder or slapping items away with relatively strong Knock Offs. 100/110 offenses give it all the power it needs to do its job, while 100/125 physical bulk lets it take a lot of punishment from physical moves and function as an effective check to many physical attackers. Unfortunately, Tangrowth is held back by its poor 50 Speed and its awful 50 Special Defense gives it a glaring weak point. Its flaws are minor, however, and Tangrowth is an immense threat in the RU metagame at the moment. Its ranking should reflect such, so raise Tangrowth to A+.

 

[Magcargo]

I'm not an RU Player, but Cincinno might deserve a small rise to D-Rank with Cobalion gone. If I'm not mistaken, Cobalion was the only reason it was ranked as an E-Rank mon in the first place. It still is bad, but its more on the level of the current D-Rank mons than the E-Ranked ones.

 

[Twix]

It may be too early for this, but I feel that:

Trevenant -> C+ | There is nothing that really stands out from Trevenant, bar its Attack stat, although it's held back by its Speed. With the Ghost-typing I guess it could be a Spinblocker, although on the Defensive side, there isn't much reason to be used over Gourgeist-XL, bar Harvest. Trevenant can also pull off some sets such Choice Band and Choice Scarf with Trick, although it mostly wants to stick with sets relating to Harvest such as Will-O-Wisp + 3 Attacks. Trevenant shouldn't even start close to B+ rank as suggested by BrandonBeast as Gourgeist can do most everything better defensively, and Exeggutor can do Sub Seed better with Harvest and Sleep Powder, really only leaving Trevenant to sub-optimal offensive sets, which are walled by Pokemon such as Drapion.

 

[atomicllamas]

Klinklang for B- for C

One Pokemon I've found to be quite effective given the current powerhouses of offense that includes: Scarf Tyrantrum, and other top offensive mons such as Mega Glalie and Scarf Flygon, and even more rare threats such as Sneasel, is Klinklang. The opponent locking in Scarf Tyrantrum into Head Smash or Outrage, Scarf Flygon into Outrage, killing a Pokemon with Sneasel, or using either STAB move with Scarf Durant affords you a set up opportunity which allows you to counter sweep the opponents offensive teams effectively. Below are two replays in which Klinklang performs this role adequately (and amazingly in the case of the second replay).

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ru-72489
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ru-72491

Its too soon to say too much about the new meta game, but I feel like its interesting in the way that offense is very good in it, as there are many offensive powerhouses, but other offensive mons can be extremely hard with offense to deal with, such as M Glalie and Scarf Tyrantrum. I think in order to effectively run offense in this meta you are going to have to run some niche mons, but I think its 100% worth it given the effectiveness of the playstyle at the moment.

Klinklang set I was using

Klinklang @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 108 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Gear Grind
- Shift Gear
- Wild Charge

Its weird it isn't ranked at all already tbh, I never thought it was that bad, but given its mixed performance against top Metagame threats, being a good answer to Fletchinder, M Glalie, Tyrantrum and Sneasel for offensive teams, but struggling against the likes of M Steelix, and certain Electrics. Its definitely worthy of a slot on offensive teams, although it isn't a top tier pokemon by any means. Its ability to effectively manipulate opposing offense into setting up a situation where it just wins, makes it worthy of a C level ranking, as it does struggle against more balanced or offensive teams.

 

[Wandering Wobbuffet]

I'm not an RU Player, but Cincinno might deserve a small rise to D-Rank with Cobalion gone. If I'm not mistaken, Cobalion was the only reason it was ranked as an E-Rank mon in the first place. It still is bad, but its more on the level of the current D-Rank mons than the E-Ranked ones.

Cobalion was one of the things but it's really any steel type so considering how common megalix ia as well as the not rare Durant and Escavalier I don't think it should even be raised. Besides if it's in E rank then people who look at the viability rankings will (hopefully) not use it.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Hey guys can we wait before making a judgement on Trevenant? It's only been in the tier for about a day and it hasn't had enough time to tie itself into the RU meta as of yet. For all we know, within a week or so it could end up being really good, or it could end up being really awful. We don't truly know that yet. So I'm gonna suggest that we hold of on making a judgement on Trevenant and wait a week or two and see how it fares. Oh and btw I'd honestly say that Trev seems more like a B- or B Rank Pokemon. It has a niche as being the best physical Ghost in the tier with its CB set and it hits super hard while it can check stuff like Virizion fairly well. I don't think comparing it to Gourgeist is fair considering Trev hits far harder with Wood Hammer, and it has Horn Leech, Shadow Claw, and EQ. But still, hold off on Trev imo and wait a week or two to see if it really is actually good.

Also Cinccino is bad, but it wouldn't hurt to raise it a notch to D if that's anything. D is already an extremely low rank and no one really uses any of the Pokemon in D Rank. We had Dusknoir in last gen's RU and that was just D Rank, not E Rank simply because it did have a few minor niches that prevented it from being utter shit. I guess Cinccino could be D Rank since it's kind of a pain in the ass against offense: the biggest problem with it is how utterly matchup reliant it is. It does have a few minor niches so I guess it could be D Rank, and for reference D Rank is already saying that it's bad and is a discouraging rank to begin with. So yeah I don't care whether Cinccino winds up in D or E, but D wouldn't hurt seeing as how it's still not good but it's better than fucking Hitmonchan and Typhlosion lol.

Oh and Klinklang is cute and I've never used it but llamas's post seems convincing. C+ or B- would be okay I guess.

Just my two cents.

 

[-kal-]

Jellicent from S to A+: With the departure of Cobalion, the ability to click Knock Off or other Dark-type moves is generally much more safer as those pokemon would only have to fear like Virizion switching in. This means that Sneasel and Scrafty are going to rise further in usage and popularity. This is not really great for Jellicent as one of its main reason in S rank was its ability to counter Cobalion. With that gone and the possible rise of Dark-types, I just don't see Jellicent being the top tier pokemon it once was. Don't get me wrong, it is still a great defensive stallbreaker and one of the few bulky Water-types in the tier that beats most Fighting-types but just that it should be ranked lower now that Cobalion has left which is why A+ rank should be fine for it at the moment.