Resource LC Viability Rankings

[tcr]

ZoroarkForever

[1:46:30 AM] ZoroarkForever: yo
[1:46:34 AM] ZoroarkForever: add to your scraggy nom
[1:46:38 AM] ZoroarkForever: that LO dd
[1:46:45 AM] ZoroarkForever: ohkoes foo w/ hjk
[1:46:52 AM] ZoroarkForever: and spritz after sr
[1:47:13 AM] ZoroarkForever: and the evio ohkoes foo at +1 w/ 1 layers of spikes w/ hjk
[1:47:33 AM] ZoroarkForever: also iron tail 2hkos all fairies unboosted
[1:48:04 AM] ZoroarkForever: and it's one of the few sweepers that supports itself midgame w/ koff
[1:48:15 AM] ZoroarkForever: so hjk takes souls lategame

Basically this, idk why zf was still up at fucking 2 in the morning messaging me this zz Scraggy is a lord, who lures in its own checks and counters and Knock Offs them midgame / early game, then just wins. LO DD is a cool af set, making bulkyfoo not a reliable check anymore (fuck even just knocking off foo with Evio set means you win at +1). It really needs minimal support, maybe SR or even one layer of spikes, making common Pokemon like Ferroseed or Dwebble strong teammates (Ferroseed can check Abra as well which is a plus, while Dwebble can often set up SR and 1-2 layers of Spikes). Obviously it has counters, in the form of mons like Timburr or Spritzee, or loose checks like Fletchling or Snubbull, but thats why it isn't being nommed for A rank, its being nommed for B+. Jac you say that it shouldn't rely on Iron Tail to get through some of its counters but how is that any different than using Iron Tail on Riolu, or Hydro Pump Oma, etc. Its a move that gets it through its counters, that's a good enough reason to use it imo. Just because it isn't the most common move or the most common set doesnt mean that Scraggy should stay down, it simply means that the mons potential hasn't been discovered yet.

 

[Svalkenaeres]

I agree with Scraggy rising
Despite the fact he is totally blocked by bulky fighting, Scraggy is just too powerful and he is so better than others B ranks.
Its counters (mostly fightings) can easily trapped with the right support (like goth) or at least weakened. Scraggy has a great bulk, a great offensive typing, a great movepool. Its only failling is to being weak to fighting/fletch and to have some problems with fairies such as Spritzee.
The DD version is really powerful but can be pretty difficult to set-up actually. However it has another cool set who is the scarf (Set I often used) and scarfed with moxie, Scraggy is ridiculously powerful in late game (with spikes it's a pain to deal with) wrecking just all the mons without a fighting resist and set-upping with Moxie. He has some niches that does not make him outclassed by Mienfoo : Knock Off STAB, Moxie (With two moxies boost, most of the time you won.), Iron tail (That is quite ironic to see that the Scraggy scarf version is less weak to fairies that the Scarfoo) and a better bulk, even if it does not matter a lot. Just see the damages of the scarf with one moxie boost (Timburr can't switch on scarf, he is 2hkoed by HJK even unboosted)

+1 236+ Atk Scraggy High Jump Kick vs. 76 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 18-22 (72 - 88%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 236+ Atk Scraggy High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 196 Def Eviolite Mienfoo: 18-22 (85.7 - 104.7%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
+1 236+ Atk Scraggy Iron Tail vs. 212 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Spritzee: 18-22 (66.6 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Now seriously : Who keeps his fighting full life in late game ? Just put a random shell smasher in your team or just Pawn for a kind of darkspam and you can be sure the fighting will be weakened a lot. And just the spikes allows scraggy to make a lot of kills.
For Spritzee, same thing. He is one of the most common knock off absorber. Koffed Spritzee has 43.8% to being OHKOed by +1 Iron Tail, without SR. A lot of fairies are koff absorber.

So the point is not that he needs its counters dead, the point is that his counters are in a lot of team the answer to knock off/pawn for the fighting. So it is really easy to cripples its counters and probably the opponent will not have the choice. Fairies and Fighting are not the kind of mons you can keep in lategame such as Abra.

This is the same for DD.

Really in my opinion Scraggy is one of the best sweeper in the current metagame, despite the fact he is underrated (and underplayed in high ladd) and this thing clearly deserves a better rank. B+

 

[Funbot28]

Can we just remove A* and add those mons to a S- tier, so it will be more consistent compared to other viability rankings?

 

[Rowan]

fuck it i'll do it

 

[Rowan]

abra + timburr -> S-
porygon -> A+
A* -> the grave


if people want pory in S-, post about it, but i don't think it deserves it because it gets beaten by +2 teddiursa's close combat

 

[Brambane]

imo just put Porygon in its own rank, C++

 

[tcr]

Speaking of teddiursa can we get it bumped up to at least C+ Rank, if not B-? It still loses to things like Pawniard or Timburr but it can still be a really cool sweeper if passed a boost from something like Mienfoo or Torchic, or any other attack passer. It can be really cool to sweep with, ohkoing tons of bulky Pokemon like Timburr

+2 196 Atk Teddiursa Facade (140 BP) vs. 156 HP / 76+ Def Eviolite Timburr: 25-30 (96.1 - 115.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (i think thats the popular spread, tagging Celestavian bc he has a boner for Timburr of all mons)

Its also really cute, and can SD itself if need be. It might be a little outclassed by something like Bunnelby, but its ability to hit 21 Speed with Quick Feet is really cool. I'll post replays and make a teddi team if need be and ill beat Rowan with it if its worth needs to be proven

 

[gali]

I can maybe see teddi going to c+ but no higher. It's just got too many things hindering it. It's really frail will have a lot of trouble setting up an sd on anything since it will probably be 2hkoed. Not only that but it's on a timer b/c of toxic orb. Honestly I'd rather use taillow, who also hits hard and is fast but doesnt need a free turn to start killing things, than this.

btw the argument that "it can be a good sweeper if you pass it boosts" isn't very strong since that can be applied to any mon.

 

[Rowan]

I don't get why I'd put teddiursa in C+, when literally every other C+ mon has proved itself in actual relevant battles on good teams. Teddiursa can sweep yes, but at the end of the day, it's just horribly outclassed by almost every other physical sweeper ever

what should go to C+ is snover and honedge

 

[tcr]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-250499229

ROWANS NEXT GIMME THAT C+ BOIIII

 

[Rowan]

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/lc-250499229

ROWANS NEXT GIMME THAT C+ BOIIII

nice scarfchou miss. but still you can pass a +2 to anything and it have a decent chance of sweeping a team. taillow did just as good a job of cleaning that team at that point, and has access to quick attack. I'm not saying it's a bad mon, I just don't get why I'm choosing it over other physical sweepers

 

[Berks]

I don't get why I'd put teddiursa in C+, when literally every other C+ mon has proved itself in actual relevant battles on good teams. Teddiursa can sweep yes, but at the end of the day, it's just horribly outclassed by almost every other physical sweeper ever

what should go to C+ is snover and honedge

Why are they not already C+???

 

[Cheryl.]

I want Skrelp to rise to A rank. Skrelp is a potent wallbreaker with Adaptibility powered moves. A nifty fighting resist and good bulk make Skrelp a good partner with some threats, like Scraggy or Pawniard. Skrelp also has Toxic Spikes, which are pretty useful. Some problems with Skrelp include getting walled by Croagunk if lacking HP Psychic, or getting walled by Ferroseed if lacking HP Fire. But Croagunk's falling viability helps it, and Ferroseed isn't too common and Skrelp has partners like Larvesta who can deal with Ferroseed. Skrelp is an overall great pokemon right now and should rise.

 

[Kingler]

I actually agree w/ the skrelp rise as it just shits on so many teams and hp fire/psychic is neato to bop ferro/gunk. On more offensive teams where you don't rly have a defensive backbone having a wallbreaker like that really helps so your opp can't just switch and wear u out. adaptability-boosted stabs + the legendary move scald is a bitch and it's a decent fighting/h2o check. i feel like it could rise.

im probably missing something so dont hurt me :<

 

[rhydonphilip]

Well recently i have been building a good amout of teams and the poke does stand out for it's very powerfull wallbreaking ability/movepool , however the fact it can set up toxic spikes(one of current metagames best hazzards) makes it even more dangerous.
Being able to put down your own hazards, wall break, enough bulk aswell as nice type against the most treatning teams makes it well worth A.
And it isn't even that hard to build with ,allot of teams can use a poisen/water type(it's not like there is anything with that type or use to outclass it(and no tentacool definatly doesn't -.-)).

 

[ryan]

Greetings LC players across the land! I'm coming here today to demand a rise in the Viability Rankings for an elite Pokemon, Diglett.

Diglett is one of only two good trappers in the Little Cup metagame. The other, Gothita, is incredibly slow and thus forced to use a Choice Scarf if it hopes to trap and eliminate faster problematic Pokemon to your team. While it certainly does a better job than Diglett at trapping Fighting-type Pokemon such as Mienfoo and Timburr, it is inferior at trapping almost everything else. Wynaut is also a viable Pokemon but is almost entirely worse at eliminating threatening Pokemon to your team, and instead creates setup opportunities thanks to Encore.

Where Diglett excels is in the malleability of its role on a team. Even on one team, its role can change from game to game, depending on the opponent's team. Against offense, Diglett can trap offensive threats such Abra and either break its Focus Sash or revenge kill it after another Pokemon lived one hit and struck back or hit it with priority before fainting. It can also pick off nearly any weakened offensive Pokemon, regardless of type advantages, because of its amazing Speed tier of 20, which is above every other Pokemon barring Voltorb and Elekid, both of which share its Speed tier and can at best force a Speed tie but can also be picked off with Sucker Punch. Against slower, bulkier teams, Diglett can trap problematic walls that might be preventing a teammate from sweeping. For example, I have been using Diglett alongside the esteemed Calm Mind Spritzee to wonderful success, and it works even better with Mienfoo to lure bulky Poison- and Fire-types for Diglett to trap. Not many Pokemon can give Calm Mind Spritzee excessive troubles, but most of them are easily disposed by Diglett. Even in different games against the same team, Diglett can play different roles. You never know what you might need to trap until the game is underway. Hax might swiftly change your strategy and win condition, and when that happens, Diglett can adapt to any situation. Diglett rarely falls flat in any matchup simply because your opponent can't just switch to a counter and call it a day. It's up to you to figure out how to get Diglett safely in against things that you need to trap. Even if the opponent doesn't have anything you need to trap with Diglett, its access to Stealth Rock and priority in Sucker Punch help to keep it from being dead weight. Even Diglett's presence on a team can force the opponent to play predictably, rarely clicking Volt Switch with an Electric-type or even bringing in a check or counter to one of your Pokemon in fear of losing an important member of their team.

I believe A rank is underselling how easy it is to succeed with Diglett on your team, and I implore you all to consider a rise to A+ or even S- rank for this fearsome beast. If not, the molemen might come and ban your sun teams!

 

[RZL]

Due to it fragility and how its power sometimes is lacking, I would certainly agree with A+ as this thing is a beast, but sadly it is nowhere near as splashable as Abra, nor is it the behemoth that Timburr is. Sure Gothita is weaker, but Diglett has trouble OHKOing any Pokemon it can't hit super effectively too. 55 Attack isn't much, and it needs Life Orb to deal damage, and it needs Sash to take a hit, it just really wants both items. Also, you failed to mention how Diglett's ability is inferior to Gothita's, as it doesn't trap Flying types or levitate users. A rank is definitely an undersell though, it should be at least A+, but it is definitely not without its flaws which you didn't mention.

 

[Merritt]

Another downside to Arena Trap vs. Shadow Tag is that Trace Porygon can trap and revenge kill Diglett while it can't do the same to Gothita.

More importantly is that Gothita has the ability to completely shut down support and defensive mons due to trick while Diglett has to have them weakened a lot before it can kill. Gothita can trick its scarf onto something like Ferroseed and instantly it means that setting up rocks with Ferroseed at any later point in the game is incredibly risky, since if Gothita comes in when you set up those rocks Ferroseed is dead and Gothita gets its scarf back in the bargain. Diglett, on the other hand, is great at taking out faster frail mons without giving up momentum by being forced out after killing.

In the comparison between Gothita and Diglett each has their own merits. Diglett is stronger, since it can run Life Orb and has a stronger STAB. Gothita is pseudo-faster due to scarf and its STAB lets it deal with the omnipresent fighting types better. Diglett can take out less bulky targets better, while Gothita can deal with walls. What really lets Diglett shine over Gothita is its synergy with other mons. Fletch+Dig cores or Spritz+Dig cores are powerful, and Gothita doesn't really have anyting like it.

Is Diglett really good? Of course it is, I don't think anybody would disagree. However its lack of power and difficulty getting in in the first place means that it's nowhere near S- rank. A+ rank would be ok I guess, but I think it's still around A rank viability (although one of the best in there).

 

[tazz]

I think diglett is easily high A+, imo it's not really that arguable. However, I think whether it belongs in S- or A+ is the more pressing question. I'm leaning more towards S- for a couple of reasons. Every pokemon has flaws, diglett's being that it has a hard time switching in without sash, has no bulk, can't trap fliers, and can only trap weakened non resists. However, I think that what you get from having diglett on your team overcomes these flaws. With diglett you essentially have the best revenge killer in the meta, able to revenge abra, weak mienfoo, pawniard, and just weakened non-resists in general. What sets it apart from other revenge killers is that they cannot do anything about it. Even balance teams appreciate diglett on their team (it is absolutely as splashable as abra), as it can give it an advantage vs ponyta, annoying pivoting from mag/chinchou, pawniard, etc. Shellder or flethling (or any other wincon for that matter) paired with it is a terror to face. Diglett is an absolute threat to any team, and used correctly it's easily S-.

 

[apt-get]

Gothita can trick its scarf onto something like Ferroseed and instantly it means that setting up rocks with Ferroseed at any later point in the game is incredibly risky, since if Gothita comes in when you set up those rocks Ferroseed is dead and Gothita gets its scarf back in the bargain.

choice scarf only takes effect the turn after it's tricked onto the opponent, so using sr and then bullet seed as the opponent tricks will save ferro

 

[RZL]

Umm, no it doesn't....it takes effect when you use a move with it equipped. Anyway a Scarf Ferroseed is by no means good.
Not entirely sure what apt meant but this is how the Choice Item + Trick mechanic works. I am assuming this is the play that apt is referring to.
eg; Ferroseed uses Rocks when you switch in Gothita.
Gothita uses Trick on Ferroseed
Ferroseed uses Bullet Seed
(Ferroseed would then be locked into Bullet Seed)

 

[Rowan]

I think its a fallacy that diglett needs a sash. It all it means is that it can switch in once providing there are hazards. Life orb turns diglett into a monster, getting all the necessary kos, whilst also turning diglett into a fearsome late game cleaner thanks to it's high speed, once knock off has been spammed a bit. The thing that people forget about diglett is it's ability to be a cleaner. I'd definitely support a rise to s-

 

[RZL]

Needs was the wrong word, I should've used something like "wants".
I don't mean that it "needs" it per se, but I mean that it cannot switch in to any attack unless it is Electric-type.
Life Orb is the better option and should be run, but it still would appreciate being able to take a hit.

It can't clean if something is at reasonable health and has priority or is equipped with Choice Scarf, eg Corphish, Bunnelby, Fletchling, Choice Scarfers especially ones that resist Sucker Punch.

"All" is a slight exaggeration...that would mean it KOes anything and everything it wants to KO. Okay, it gets almost all of them. It would like Porygon, Vullaby and a couple others without SR support, other than that, it's fine.

A is way too low for Diglett, I think that it is just a really good A+ but that is only my opinion, but I certainly do not put it on par with the other two in S-, that's just me though.

 

[ryan]

I don't even think Sash is good. When you're selectively trapping and eliminating Pokemon at your own will, being able to live any one hit becomes far less important.

I think another important point for Diglett is that it can fit onto literally any team archetype. I'm sure even Diglett stall can be very successful if it is built right, probably with some slow pivots like Mienfoo or Vullaby. Every playstyle has specific Pokemon it wants to get rid of, and this is probably even moreso the case for stall than it is for offense because it is so difficult to cover every Pokemon in any given metagame. Diglett's absurd 20 Speed means it can trap nearly every non-Flying offensive Pokemon and dispose of it.

Yes, Diglett needs certain Pokemon weakened or eliminated before it can clean opposing teams, but even having the ability to clean teams on top of all the other things it does is yet another reason why it's such a fantastic Pokemon. Most cleaners are going to need things weakened or taken out before they can end the game; Diglett isn't an exception.

 

[Max Carvalho]

Diglett is also an easy fit on teams centred around a cleaner like BD Ziggs or Magby, Shell Smashers, Fletch (or just any playstyle ^). Not only it traps its counters to death but can Memento on things that threaten his teammate (say foo x BD Ziggs) allowing an easy set up. Can also be rock setter, tho def not the most optimal one. The support this guy provides is amazing, wouldn't mind seeing him as S- rank imo. Trapping is too good imao.