Multifaction/FFA The Mafia of the Five Kings - Game Over, King of the Iron Islands wins

Ampharos

tag walls, punch fascists
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Game Over

Rattleshirt
sat patiently in his hole, waiting for officer Maester Aemon to come arrest him. The arrest never came, but he certainly did, as hooker Craster had her way with him.

Craster then walks over to Jaremy Rykker and pushes him onto a sacrificial fire that had been set up, killing him instantly.

Dear Jaremy Rykker,
You are Tywin Lannister, Lord of Casterly Rock, Shield of Lannisport, and Warden of the West. You swear fealty to the King on the Iron Throne.

“When your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet.”

You are the grandfather of King Joffrey and the head of House Lannister, the richest house in Westeros. You are known for being ruthless bordering on cruel, but also cunning and calculating. These traits were developed partially out of necessity, as your father Tytos Lannister was a weak lord and lost nearly all of House Lannister’s power, which you have dedicated your life to restoring.

Each night, you may reply to the host conversation with “Night X - Gather info on ALIAS”. Your resources as head of an incredibly wealthy house, as well as your numerous connection to other nobles, will allow you to discover your target’s full role.

You win if you eliminate the King in the North, the King in the Narrow Sea, the Targaryen Dynasty, and any hostile neutrals.
This was penguin344.

Craster then turns around and shoves Rattleshirt out of his hole and into the ocean, drowning him.

Dear Rattleshirt,
You are Ser Edmure Tully. You swear fealty to the King in the North.

“Tell father I have gone to make him proud.”

You are the heir to House Tully of Riverrun and the younger brother of Catelyn and Lysa. Considered hot-headed but good-hearted, you are quite popular among the smallfolk of the Riverlands and make friends easily. Unfortunately for King Robb, military strategy is not your forte.

Each night, you may reply to the host conversation with “Night X - Attacking ALIAS”. Your host shall engage your target, who will turn to face you in combat and target you with their actions that night.

<snip>

You win if you eliminate the King of the Iron Islands, the King on the Iron Throne, the Targaryen Dynasty, and any hostile neutrals.
This was acidphoenix.

With her last enemy dead, Craster, also known as Yeti, turns towards the fourth wall and walks out of the game.

Dear Craster,
You are Asha Greyjoy, called the Kraken’s Daughter. You swear fealty to the King of the Iron Islands.

“No fight is hopeless till it has been fought.”

You are the only daughter of King Balon Greyjoy, and the older sister of Theon Greyjoy. Though faced with the difficult task of overcoming Ironborn sexism, you have managed to become a respected fighter in your own right. Your father plans to name you heir in place of your younger brother.

Each night, you may reply to the host conversation with “Night X - Distract ALIAS”. Utilizing sexism to your advantage, you will use your feminine wiles to prevent your target from doing anything that night.

You are aware that Olenna Redwyne is too old and frail to be a participant in this game. Use this information however you wish.

You win if you eliminate the King in Highgarden, the King in the North, the Targaryen Dynasty, and any hostile neutrals.
Two individuals remain alive - Maester Aemon and the newly-unkidnapped Dolorous Edd Tollett. Unfortunately for them, there is no way for either of them to kill the other without also dying themselves, as neither has a lynch vote with value greater than 1, and night kills all have the exact same priority. Thus, both are locked in endless combat until they eventually waste away.

Dear Dolorous Edd Tollett,
You are Stannis Baratheon, Lord of Dragonstone and the King in the Narrow Sea.

“I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty.”

You are the younger brother of the late Robert Baratheon, usurper of the Targaryen Dynasty and king for 15 years. After discovering that Robert’s heirs were actually sired through his queen’s incestuous relationship with her twin brother, you declared yourself rightful heir to the throne and began amassing supporters in the Narrow Sea and the Stormlands. You are known for being cold and unfriendly, valuing justice over interpersonal relationships.

Each night, you may reply to the host conversation with “Night X - Gather intelligence on ALIAS”. By consulting the fires of your loyal red priests, you will be able to determine which king ALIAS swears fealty to.

Because of your reputation as antisocial and unmoving, you are strongly disliked by the smallfolk, who prefer your charismatic brother Renly. As such, your vote in the daily lynch carries a weight of -2.

You win if you eliminate the King in Highgarden, the King on the Iron Throne, the Targaryen Dynasty, and any hostile neutrals.
This was vonFiedler.

Dear Maester Aemon,
You are Sandor Clegane, called The Hound. You swear fealty to the King on the Iron Throne.

“A hound will die for you, but never lie to you. And he’ll look you straight in the face.”

You are the youngest member of House Clegane, a knightly house in service to the Lannisters. Your brother Gregor, the current head of the house, burned half your face as a child by forcing it into a fire, leaving you pathologically afraid of it. However, you are also a cruel and jaded warrior. You detest knights, and thus have never sought such a title.

Each night, you may reply to the host conversation with “Night X - Capture ALIAS”. You will imprison your target, who will be unable to post in the main game thread, complete actions, or be targeted until the end of the next night. You may not capture the same user on consecutive nights.

You win if you eliminate the King in the North, the King in the Narrow Sea, the Targaryen Dynasty, and any hostile neutrals.
This was THE_IRON_...KENYAN?.

Congratulations to the King of the Iron Islands and his followers for being the sole winners of the Mafia of the Five Kings!

Will post various postgamey things over the next day or so and will also be chatting on IRC.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
really though I apologize to both our allies for this. you were both very useful working with us especially after HG died. LW always wanted to win with von even though it was the rougher path. I had a faint twinkle in my eye of how it could come down to chance and possibly a solo win if NS and IT had the same kill priority. ultimately I didn't want to choose either of you so I left it up to chance - did one of you have the better priority? as it turns out, no sir.

but I think this is the truest ending to the series. after all, a throne is not shared, and certainly not for long. we will reign solo and you will have a better queen than dany woulda been!!!!

penguin and von were both good allies and it's unfortunate I couldn't win with both, they both contributed to our win a lot. alas, gents, priority wasn't on any of our sides.
 
What were the living players roles?

GG tho even tho I was out of town and was unable to play
I probably wouldn't have lynched myself, Da Letter El Produced this elaborate plan to win in our teamchat, I might post it here.

Also Walrein did you purposely make me Dany or was that RNGesus?
 

LightWolf

lightwoof
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
On actual ingame matters. I strongly believe in the concept of loyality in such backstabby games. When you no longer have to worry about backstabs the game gets much easier to control, which we did with von for p much after my faction killed Mithril ourselves. Setting up future alliances in these type of games is just as important as winning the games themselves since if you are a backstabby asshole, people will remember and trust you less.

It also makes ParanoidWolf's job easier when everyone he plans to work with he can trust!
 
On actual ingame matters. I strongly believe in the concept of loyality in such backstabby games. When you no longer have to worry about backstabs the game gets much easier to control, which we did with von for p much after my faction killed Mithril ourselves. Setting up future alliances in these type of games is just as important as winning the games themselves since if you are a backstabby asshole, people will remember and trust you less.

It also makes ParanoidWolf's job easier when everyone he plans to work with he can trust!
i think in so many of these games historically we've seen how important the actual established player meta is because of how we managed to break most multifaction games in the past through it, simply by trusting each other to go for the easy/optimal/enjoyably cooperative win rather than the merit win, which is necessary to create the kind of superalliances that dominate the format, which had a heavy underlying element of interpersonal knowledge that was developed over playing non-multifaction games together

idk when i played a lot i also used to rely on this meta in even other games like the bassgames to gauge whether someone was worth trusting or could be relied upon to keep up the mutually beneficial aspect of the agreement because people had clearly established patterns of diplomacy
 
Wall of Text Posted by DLE yesterday:
Assume targaryen lynching

Assume Yeti does not stab penguin to help you.

North is hooked tonight. Narrow released from kidnapping. 2 throne 1 islands vs 1 north 1 narrow. Vote is a 1v1 with your -2. Vote ties, goes into night. Narrow kidnapped, North hooked. North killed. Wait until you are released. Vote is 1v0 with 3 players vs your -2 vote. Game is over.

Siding with penguin leads to a guaranteed win.

The only world in a targaryen lynch where you win is if Yeti stabs penguin.

If her stab is to not hook north, north kill could hit her, so this is probably not the stab, as North is almost certainly killing the enemy which only it has. Even if it does not hit her and hits iron islands, day starts with a 1v0 in narrow+north's favor where you have the option of deciding to side with north or with islands. Regardless, Yeti does not make this decision as she will almost certainly die that night if she tries this as her stab.

If her stab is to vote for iron throne with you, you lynch tik. She can then hook penguin ad infinitum. However, Narrow is put into a win + kingmaker whereby Narrow still gets to choose if they should win with Islands or North based on who they kill. If Narrow kill Throne, Narrow is removed and Islands wins. If Narrow kill Islands, Narrow lynches and wins with North. If Narrow kills North for some ungodly reason, Islands is removed and it becomes a 50/50 on priority between North and Throne. This is her best possible stab of Throne but puts the ball in Narrow's court to stab her in return and to win with North should they wish.

There are no other stabs possible and none which can guarantee II win.

Due to the ability for you to potentially choose to screw over Islands anyway even if they wanted to win with you, given the player being behind Islands being the incredibly loyal Yeti, given the game developments leading to penguin and Yeti having worked together thus far, and given penguin being a player who almost certainly has done nothing to anger Yeti, Narrow odds of winning in this scenario are functionally 0.

That said, if there is no chance of winning in a tie vote scenario, then this is the optimal play. However, this is not the case.


Assume lynch tied.

2 throne, 1 islands, 1 narrow, 1 north (kidnapped), 1 targaryen.

Some additional information for you on how these scenarios are even possible. Without the specific buffs Targ received upon death the game would have been called by now in IT/II favor.

Targaryen have a backed up safeguard from Spiffy's death; if you have inspected Ullar post-Spiffy death you can confirm this. Means that our kill tonight will succeed with certainty. He also received a 1 time higher priority kill that was used on lightwolf and a nerfed inspector upon DLE death. An inspection now would probably verify this, although it would fail tonight. If you feel I'm lying, there's no amount of back ups or role changes that would matter barring Targaryen having the chance to kill 2 people in a night which is no longer possible given our forced use of the lightwolf kill and having a nightly 2 kills is fucking silly and you deserve to bitch out walrein if we had it.

But even assuming Targaryen have a nightly kill and an omniguard still (which we don't, and your inspection would confirm this), all of the following scenarios still are true. I'll include these worst (or perhaps best? I suppose it would depend) case scenarios for you into calculations where relevant.

First note that a North kill tonight is impossible and thus irrelevant. From there our kill options are limited to 4 options.

A. Assume a successful narrow kill from targaryen

North released, their kill unsuccessful in any world they do not pass their kill to us, as Ullar self-safeguards.

Even if kidnap fails, game is 2 throne, 1 islands, 1 north, 1 targaryen with ii/it to lynch. If north lynched, it's a 3v1 which ullar can't win, as the most people ullar could even theoretically kill in a night is 1 even if people believe he received a nightly kill + omniguard and he would simply be lynched by the other two the next day if he lived the night.

This is auto loss for Targaryen and thus something Ullar could not do, unless North kill is successful and on an it/ii player. However, North is kidnapped and unable to do their kill and thus could only pass the kill to Narrow or us. He would almost certainly pass it to Narrow if given a choice of preferences between ally and non-ally which would be hooked bar a misplay by it/ii not hooking/kidnapping Narrow and would be outprioritized by Targaryen kill in this world and thus is irrelevant. Targaryen cannot take the risk of assuming a North passed kill and kill Narrow off of that hope.


B. Assume any unsuccessful kill from targaryen/targaryen idle/Targ is lying about the safeguard

North released, 50% chance of kidnap on narrow, 50% chance of kidnap on us. If kidnap is on narrow, it/ii lynch targ first so that ii stay in game, then kidnap north. Narrow kill is unsuccessful that night because narrow kidnapped and north is hooked/kidnapped as well. Narrow is lynched that day in a 3 vs -2 vote with north kidnapped barring ii help, which is unlikely considering the state of the game and that the ii to make this decision is the incredibly loyal yeti.

Only world this plays out well for you is if ii decide out of the blue to help you win and hook/kill it for you, but this risks you then just siding with north due to them still being alive. Yeti does not take this risk and goes for the path of least resistance to win.

This same world plays out in any idle world and is eerily similar to the Targ lynch world.

This world is extremely likely given it being nearly impossible for us+north to avoid hooker + kidnap, and hooker may outprio safeguard (kidnap almost certainly will not though).

Thus you can assume that we will kill one of it/ii tonight.


C1. Assume a successful ii hooker kill from targ tonight

2 throne, 1 narrow, 1 north, 1 targaryen

Narrow 50% chance of kidnap (100% if it knows about Ullar safeguard).

C1i. Assume north support lynch on targaryen.

North are either kidnapped that night and thus cannot die or they are not kidnapped and then have a chance to kill with your kill being passed to them.

They have a 50% chance of outprioritizing the iron throne kill and getting 50% chance of guessing the it killer and icing his kill should they outprioritize.

If the 25% chance of both outprioritization and kill icing occurs, you are released into 1 narrow, 1 north, 1 throne. You win the lynch 100% and win the game with north.

If the 25% chance of outprioritization occurs and the guess is on the wrong it player, the game is a 1v1 between you and iron throne. You have a 50/50 of winning in this position if you outprioritize them, as similarly the iron throne cannot kidnap you.

If the 50% chance of no outprioritization occurs, it's a 2v1 vs you and throne. You cannot be lynched in this position and cannot be kidnapped. Similar position to what North is put through occurs, except you only have a ¼ chance of winning in this position. You would need to outprioritize the Throne and guess the correct Throne killer once (the 2nd kill night after the 2v1 guess is irrelevant as you already outprioritize them, guaranteeing you the win from that 25% chance.)

So your win percentage in this position is 25% + 12.5% + 6.25% = 43.75%

North even have a 25% chance of winning in this world, although they can't do all that much about this lynch.
The only world where lynching targaryen today is worse than this for your winning odds is if you are convinced beyond a 43.75% weighted reasonable doubt that iron islands will side with you over iron throne. Given the circumstances of the game and how Yeti plays, you should realize this is not the case and this scenario does not rely on any other team's arbitrary choices on who wins.

C2. Assume north tie lynch on targaryen.

You pass your kill to North or Targaryen. Given you didn't pass your kill last night even though if we did not receive the sudden buff of a 1 time super prio kill the game was literally over, there's almost no chance you pass it here where you have a good option of not doing so and you probably shouldn't.

C2i. If you pass to North, North is either kidnapped + IT do a Targ kill or IT kill North and kidnap us.

They almost certainly choose the former. Assume kill on Targ succeeds. Throne ties the lynch and kidnaps you. Then they lynch North the next day. Then you have a 25% chance of winning if you outprio and you guess their killer correctly. North has auto loss in this world.

Let's assume Targ kill fails due to having an omniguard. Day is 2 throne, 1 narrow and 1 targ to vote. If you vote Targ, same 25% chance as above. If you vote IT kidnapper, North can martyr the omniguard (redirector outprioritized it on n3, so martyr certainly would as well (I would say you could ask highgarden but I suppose that isn't possible). North martyrs Ullar and you get passed the kill. Even if omniguard is idled, our kill would have to be directed at North due to the martyr giving you an opportunity to idle, kill iron throne, or kill us. Without access to protection, a kill on us succeeds and you have a 50% chance of winning in a priority battle vs throne. If we use omniguard, it gets martyred and you have a 100% win with north. Even if it isn't martyrable, all you have to do is idle your kill and you can easily convince throne to lynch targ off of risk of Targ having a nightly kill as we're essentially forced to use our kill that night or almost guarantee a loss. If North tries to mindgame and not use martyr they lose anyway in the heads up between either us or Throne so they use omniguard

Narrow 50% + 25% = 75% if we have omniguard

Narrow 25% if we do not have an omniguard

North 50% if we have omniguard
North 0% if we do not have omniguard

C2ii. They may choose a North kill and kidnap us. North has your kill.

IT risks the 25% chance of outprio+icing of killer, 25% of outprio but not iced killer, and 50% of being faster.

If outpriod and iced and the killer is the kidnapper, it's 1 throne 1 narrow 1 north 1 targ. Narrow+North have majority and lynch Targ out of fear of what Targ has and you 100% win with North when they kill a kidnapless Throne that night.

If outpriod and iced and the killer is penguin, it's 1 throne 1 narrow 1 north 1 targ. Narrow + North lynch Targ out of fear of what Targ has and there is a 50/50 on whether North passes the kill to you or not. Even if they kidnap correctly on the North kill, it's still auto for you as from the earlier assumption we already showed that Narrow kill has higher priority than Throne.

So outprio and ice is 100% win for you and North.

If outpriod and not iced, Throne kill North and kidnapper dies. 1 throne 1 narrow 1 targ. Throne lynch targ to try to see if faction kill priority is random as it's their only chance of winning, as they lose to targaryen that night from a Targaryen kill. So they lynch Targ and it's a 50/50 on priority that you win.

If faster, 2 throne 1 narrow 1 targ. If you lynch targ then you have a ¼ of winning for the same outprio/ice reasoning i've given like 3 times before. If you lynch throne then Targ wins. If you force a tie then Targ either kills throne or idles. If Targ idles then you get kidnapped and Targ gets lynched; even if targ had omniguard we could not use it to protect both you from kidnap and us from the Throne kill that night and thus we get lynched that day 100%. If Targ kills throne then it's the same 50/50 and you vote to lynch Targ. This is thus a 50/50 for Narrow if you play this way.
25% + 12.5% + 25% = 62.5% win rate for Narrow
25% win rate for North

D. Assume we kill IT

1 north 1 narrow 1 ii 1 throne 1 targ, north is hooked, kidnapper is dead.

Only possible lynch targets here are Targ, Throne, Islands, or no lynch. You + North can stop a lynch on either one of you two.

D1. Assume Targ lynched here.

Literally the same position as the Targ today lynch except with better odds of you winning. IT now only have 1 and no kidnap to stop you or North kills. II siding with you now is more optimal than siding with a kidnap-less Throne as you two form majority together and at least has some merit to being mentioned. You have auto if this happens and II wins the head to head with North because hooker and kill that night.

II kills North and unless you kill II AND II doesn't hook you, then II has auto win here and as such may not pick to let Throne win.

If II decides to dip early and not pick favorites, they hook + kill North and you have a 50/50 of winning here in a prio battle vs Throne.

If II decides to ride or die with Throne and hooks you (or North possibly if you try to predict the hook), you have a 25% chance of outprioritizing the IT kill and avoiding the II hook and guessing correctly on if you give North your kill or if you keep it yourself. If you pass it to North, they may kill Islands instead, and if so, they have a 25% chance of outprioritizing Islands, forcing a 1v1 between penguin and acid. Acid wins this 1v1 because he kills next night. However, acid probably won't realize to kill Islands and you can probably get him to kill Iron Throne without him thinking much about it. If Islands hook you and you try to kill however, you do lose, but you at least have the potential out of a North kill unlike in the lynch Targ today scenario.

So even if II wants you to lose and to actively give IT a win, you can still force yourself or North to win with 25% odds in this world assuming a fairly easy to expect North misplay. You cannot do so in a world where you lynch Targ today. There is also reason enough for Islands to not pick sides which isn't present in the other world either which gives an additional potential 50/50.

I would personally recommend against this choice as you have better win percentages in other scenarios, but even if you would want a Targaryen lynch nearly immediately, you still should tie today to force it to happen tomorrow to give you better odds of winning.

D2. Assume Throne is lynched.

If you lynch throne instead, North is the only person with a kill. North a 50/50 of guessing whether you do the kill or he does in terms of killing Islands. Giving you the kill makes you kingmaker. If you kill targ, you are removed and North loses the 1v1 to Islands. If you kill Islands, you have majority against Targ the next day and win.

I'm still writing
If you lynch throne instead, North is the only person with a kill. North a 50/50 of guessing whether you do the kill or he does in terms of killing Islands. Giving you the kill makes you kingmaker. If you kill targ, you are removed and North loses the 1v1 to Islands. If you kill Islands, you have majority against Targ the next day and win.

Assume Targ has an omniguard. First of all this omniguard is martyrable. This means kill is guaranteed regardless and you+north have majority even if the protection works in a 2v2 but a 1v0 vote scenario. Even if it were not martyrable the above is true and you still have majority. Even if the Islands guess incorrectly on who performs the kill between you and North, you still have majority and can lynch islands that day and have a guaranteed win if North martyr the omni that night.

Assume Targ has an omniguard and a nightly kill. Omniguard is martyrable so North martyrs Targ. Ices Targ kill and you can then kill either us or Islands and win. Killing Targ happens because no omniguard even if idled and lets you leave islands to win the 1v1 with north but you win anyway, killing islands means majority with north and win with them. The only world where you potentially lose is the world where Islands guesses correctly on who of North and you does the kill or you hit the 50/50 of who Targ omniguards if they choose to omni Islands.

fuck lunch
how long did it take to write that?
'

3 1/2 hrs


Yeah...
 

LightWolf

lightwoof
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
You are too much of a potential risk anytime we can't work together due to wcs! I also have a tendency to suspect you are bad when inspection results show you good and vice versa. Both cases I was somehow right...

Funny how all that wall of text means nothing the second trust is involved. Also lol at penguin doing nothing to anger II, IT's HG bootlicking ways have been a huge thorne in our eyes.
 
Last edited:

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Apparently the only thing IT and HG actually did together was vote, and it was mostly Targ interactions on both their parts. IT claimed to be working together more with the Targs than HG, but it made them look like they were too close in with HG from our perspective which screwed HG over as we decided to wipe them.

Also lol that tl;dr. It makes sense DLE would think von was throwing since we had an easier win with IT, but we were planning on winning with NS. Until Targs killed LW and I went rogue. So really, DLE is the one who screwed von out of a sure win as long as LW is still alive!

And I mean it only makes sense we would be promising wins to both sides. You don't win a multifaction if you tell one of your allies you're gonna stab them, lol. Both had reason to work with us. IT had little reason to think we would betray them for NS when they were by far the easier path to victory.

Rather than screw one of our faithful allies over, I screwed em both so I wouldn't have to pick! How's that for loyalty DLE.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
The mere fact that at 2-1 and after 3 betrayals I still broke even with them should be proof enough that they weren't easier to win with. I had the vote power over them. I made the plans that they didn't. With all three of phoenix/penguin/tik alive we had the game on checkmate due to your hook and my mayor. Even with LW dead, if you had just let me kill aemon (and you had no reason to worry about getting killed because phoenix wouldn't be allowed to do so), we still would have had the game on checkmate.

If it was DLE who decided to screw me over when it in no way helped his team win, then it's pretty annoying that a dead man I couldn't appeal to was able to make such an impact due to lack of information.
 
Apparently the only thing IT and HG actually did together was vote, and it was mostly Targ interactions on both their parts. IT claimed to be working together more with the Targs than HG, but it made them look like they were too close in with HG from our perspective which screwed HG over as we decided to wipe them.
This is what actually happened. If you accused me of buddying with targs you would be absolutely correct, they were definitely the faction that I worked with the most because they were far more open to information sharing and collaboration than either of my potential allies. I don't think HG shared any results or info with me until like n4 and II never told me anything. Targ both kept kills off of us and shared all of their inspect results with us, and I don't think they ever really lied except for the very early game and the very late game, which was for obvious reasons.

I definitely think IT had the worst early game. Billy claiming NS up until he was about to be lynched, which made me very doubtful of him, especially since walrein made the IT win conditions inconsistent which created conflict between our pms. His mole role was then bpv, which I found implausible in a game like this as it's very underpowered. He then got lynched because twin was kidnapped but still voted which ruined the tie that I wanted to happen. Black Heart trusted Gale completely even after the vote for who killed for IT failed, which could only be explained by Gale being a mole. DLE tried to mole our faction by claiming inspector and if he didn't come to me he probably would have been able to get Black Heart to stop listening to me completely. The only really good thing that happened in that cycle was randing the Targ bg, which allowed us to actually work with Targs because we had leverage.

And von we were easier to win with because the strategy that I had laid out with Yeti had no chance of failure if she followed through with it. Phoenix could have decided to screw you on a whim if he wanted to, and there was always the slight chance that if you suddenly didn't trust her you could have her killed and win with north. I had no one else to go to and between Yeti's hook and my kidnap there was no way you could have turned and won with north, and I'm pretty sure that's why walrein called the game without looking at the final actions. The win with me was absolutely free, Yeti just didn't take it.
 
vonFiedler said:
If it was DLE who decided to screw me over when it in no way helped his team win, then it's pretty annoying that a dead man I couldn't appeal to was able to make such an impact due to lack of information.
It should be fairly obvious that we thought killing LightWolf would put us in a better position to win the game. From the Targ's point of view II and IT were going to win together so we figured your only choice would be to side with us. It was not done out of spite to screw you over.

I'll save the rest of my comments until the postgame Walrein promised; in which he will extend the Targs his most heartfelt apologies.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
And von we were easier to win with because the strategy that I had laid out with Yeti had no chance of failure if she followed through with it. Phoenix could have decided to screw you on a whim if he wanted to, and there was always the slight chance that if you suddenly didn't trust her you could have her killed and win with north. I had no one else to go to and between Yeti's hook and my kidnap there was no way you could have turned and won with north, and I'm pretty sure that's why walrein called the game without looking at the final actions. The win with me was absolutely free, Yeti just didn't take it.
Your reasoning is entirely backwards.

To begin with DLE only made an impact when nothing you just said was relevant.

And even after that, the number of ways I could lose had no impact on whether Yeti loses or not. You acknowledge yourself there's no way I could win with north, so how was I not equally forced to work with her? The only difference is that if Yeti had done nothing on the night she hooked me, I would have beaten you two. That sure sounds like it was easier for me to win. You needed her to hook me one night just to draw.

it's always lovely when you don't realize your ally backstabbed you because the host won't tell you if a kidnap would produce the same result as not accepting the kill
I "backstabbed" you by not accepting a kill against one of my other allies, sure. That's the mentality that actually made me backstab you on N5. Cancerous tried to screw me over first, Pidge has said as much. I was on board with you guys until then. If he hadn't, you might be standing where II is now.

It should be fairly obvious that we thought killing LightWolf would put us in a better position to win the game. From the Targ's point of view II and IT were going to win together so we figured your only choice would be to side with us. It was not done out of spite to screw you over.
I'm sure no one thinks you didn't think it would help you win. It's just that no one is sure why. Whether I helped you or not that day, Ullar would have been lynched. All saving you would have done is put who wins between II and North in your hands, which I wasn't willing to do. You hear that Yeti? I died for your sins.
 
vonFiedler said:
I'm sure no one thinks you didn't think it would help you win. It's just that no one is sure why. Whether I helped you or not that day, Ullar would have been lynched. All saving you would have done is put who wins between II and North in your hands, which I wasn't willing to do. You hear that Yeti? I died for your sins.
there were 5 alive players. Four had +1 vote, one had -2. Voting Ygritte, and Ullar voting someone else would have caused a tie lynch.
 

vonFiedler

I Like Chopin
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there were 5 alive players. Four had +1 vote, one had -2. Voting Ygritte, and Ullar voting someone else would have caused a tie lynch.
You would have had to vote Aemon with us, which would be very good for you as it would put whether your win entirely in Ullar's hands. In the event that Ullar killed II that night, you would have won.

Honestly, I wasn't certain this wasn't even an IF. Ullar would side with you. What WAS uncertain was the extent of Ullar's role. If they were trying this hard, it seemed like there had to be an end goal for them. But there wasn't really.
 

Yeti

dark saturday
is a Community Contributor Alumnus
Also penguin came up with some very sure-fire plans. His methods had a 0% failure rate if we both did what was discussed. Which was me NOT killing acidphoenix and leaving the game. Equally, if I didn't hook von and trusted he would stick with me, his method of winning also had no failure. So I mean, I had two surefire options from both my allies as long as I trust von doesn't decide to go with North after all. And I really don't think he would have. I maintain that pitting the two in a priority-based death match was the fairest call to ultimately make! It was slimy, sure to not win with either when I had two safe methods. Though IT's did not have the risk they would side with their other ally at the last moment that NS's did, so there's that. But really I could have picked either, both came up with good plans.

sry von someone had to die for em :(
 

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