SPOILERS! Mysteries and Conspiracies of Pokemon

[Oriolous]

New Mystery:

Where exactly do Pokemon go when they enter the PC or a Pokeball? The two must be related, compressing down very large Pokemon and storing them until they are released, but this is only glossed over in the games. We get someone like this,

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When they aren't Ratatta mutants.

who lives out in the woods or wherever and works on a large machine. How does it store millions of Pokemon, and most importantly... where do they go? Do they become data in a computer, sent to some sort of kennel, just to the regional Professor's lab as seen in the anime?

It's all but confirmed they are turned to energy in the ball and are still aware of the outside world throughout multiple canons. As far as the PC goes, I consider it as a Matrix-style world where they live in simulated environments until called upon. (Or they are teleported to an island to live in their favored environment until called on)

 

[stage7_4]

Hi, I'm new here, but I have read posts before. And after seeing a few involving Project AZOTH, I had a thought on it.

What if it is linked to specific Pokémon. A is the beginning (Kyogre and Xerneas), Z is the end (Groudon and Yveltal), O is order (Rayquaza and Zygarde), T is a mystery to me, it could represent the unknown Team, and H I have a feeling represents Hoopa. I bet the last two games for Gen VI will explain the last two letters and actually have Zygarde's mega forme/secret forme face off against the Unbound Hoopa. I think that would be awesome.

Welcome! (although, watch that double posting, that's a forum no-no. Either wait for another poster or use the edit button at the bottom, it's more polite)

Hm, well I suppose making an anagram out of things isn't outside the realm of possibility, azoth itself isn't an anagram. It's an alchemy term for mercury, the philosopher stone, and the elixir of life. So it's more likely just "mysterious" term for the life energy behind mega evolution, Sea Mauville, the Kalos weapon, and other stuff that's been popping up in Gen 6.

Although if you want to fight for your theory, I wonder what Project Azoth is called in the Japanese games or in other languages. Might be a clue there.

*Edit: Still can't find the project name in other languages, but I did find a suggestion that the AZ are alpha/omega or first/last, and the OTH stand for the dot symbols on the three Regi's (O-Registeel, T-Regice, H-Regirock). Personally I think that's stretching things a bit (Regice's T is wider than it is tall for one) but interesting.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Welcome Drake Balleydier!

Has anyone else noticed the similarities between the new Pokemon and Kyurem? I think that the new Pokemon is Kyurem's original forme. Before it created the other two and became a shell. It may be that GF is going to finally let finish Kyurem's fusion, rather than leave us with an abomination of a partial fusion.

View attachment 46800

With it being a silhouette it can honestly resemble whatever you want to think it resembles. However it was said when watching the teaser random hexagons appeared all over its body which is Zygarde's thing. Also they missed their opportunity to do the Original Dragon in Gen V, it would be so odd to do it now. Also that doesn't look like a dragon.

Thanks, I'll remember that. The whole Regis thing makes me think that there is more to their story. Maybe they did something that involved Kyogre and Groudon, which would warrant their ensealment.

The Golem Trio and Regigigas don't really have anything to do with the Weather Trio. They were sealed because they're the keys to waking up Regigigas which the ancient people put to sleep because they feared its tremendous power.

 

[pika pal]

Welcome Drake Balleydier!



With it being a silhouette it can honestly resemble whatever you want to think it resembles. However it was said when watching the teaser random hexagons appeared all over its body which is Zygarde's thing. Also they missed their opportunity to do the Original Dragon in Gen V, it would be so odd to do it now. Also that doesn't look like a dragon.



The Golem Trio and Regigigas don't really have anything to do with the Weather Trio. They were sealed because they're the keys to waking up Regigigas which the ancient people put to sleep because they feared its tremendous power.

To be fair, Regigigas was introduced a Generation after its Trio, as was Lugia, so if you think of the Original Dragon as a Trio master of some sort, it's not unprecedented.

It's still 9 teams they'd have to program in for each, and especially in Shauna's case, only in one battle. If they were to force you to take the Kanto starter strong/weak against your Kalos starter then maybe they could've incorporated them into their teams, but instead you've got the choice between the three, thus 9 teams would have to be programmed in - one for each combination of Kalos and Kanto starter based on the player's choice for each set. (Chespin and Bulbasaur/Charmander/Squirtle, etc.)

If even the Battle Maison AI can't necessarily be trusted with status-category moves, what hope in hell do Trevor and Tierno have? Especially when it's extremely rare that characters below a gym leader (even then often just the move they give you when defeated) get a move set more advanced than the last four level up moves for the Pokemon they're using.

As for Serena/Calem and Shauna not using Kanto starters from an in-universe perspective... maybe they simply didn't want to? The former may have only kept their Kalos starter on hand as it holds sentimental value, but didn't want to have another handout on their team, while Shauna... put hers in the PC and forgot about it. (she doesn't seem all that terribly bright, unfortunately...)

They programmed 37 Pokemon for Inver to make teams of 3 from for Inverse battles, which I personally find less important than the Rival as far as the starter's importance would go.

They also could probably reduce the number of teams to 6, by just going on the starters type (Grass/Fire, Grass/Water, Water/Fire, and mirrors) instead of by starters themselves (ergo Froakie + Charmander gets the same team as Fennekin + Squirtle). Shauna does only have one battle, but that could have been amended by... giving her more battles in other places, or even just cutting Shauna's (and by extension Tierno's and Trevor's) battles at the end.

 

[Darth Manaphy]

To be fair, Regigigas was introduced a Generation after its Trio, as was Lugia, so if you think of the Original Dragon as a Trio master of some sort, it's not unprecedented.


They programmed 37 Pokemon for Inver to make teams of 3 from for Inverse battles, which I personally find less important than the Rival as far as the starter's importance would go.

They also could probably reduce the number of teams to 6, by just going on the starters type (Grass/Fire, Grass/Water, Water/Fire, and mirrors) instead of by starters themselves (ergo Froakie + Charmander gets the same team as Fennekin + Squirtle). Shauna does only have one battle, but that could have been amended by... giving her more battles in other places, or even just cutting Shauna's (and by extension Tierno's and Trevor's) battles at the end.

To be fair, most of Inver's Pokemon were just Battle Maison Pokemon that were repurposed. So it's not THAT hard to imagine that it exists.

 

[Hulavuta]

Hey all, I've decided to return to this thread due to my extremely high levels of excitement for a possible Z version (Zygarde is easily my favorite Pokemon of this generation)

It's all but confirmed they are turned to energy in the ball and are still aware of the outside world throughout multiple canons. As far as the PC goes, I consider it as a Matrix-style world where they live in simulated environments until called upon. (Or they are teleported to an island to live in their favored environment until called on)

I've always believed this as well, starting when I thought about how wallpapers worked. I figure that they are the simulated environments, although I guess that's too bad for the Pokemon you've put in a box with those special wallpapers that are just boring buildings or a picture of Pichus or whatever.

To be fair, Regigigas was introduced a Generation after its Trio, as was Lugia, so if you think of the Original Dragon as a Trio master of some sort, it's not unprecedented.

As far as I know, Lugia and the birds' relationship is only defined in the second movie and there isn't really mention of it in the games. So I'd be a little wary on that comparison. Regigigas works on all counts, but the generation 4 games were first and foremost about Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina; he was just a side thing. That could work though, as we do have the statues of Zekrom and Reshiram in the Parfum Palace and they could easily add an underground level to it.

That said, like Pikachu315111 said, they did have their chance of focusing on the original dragon back in Gen 5. Kyurem was undoubtedly an important part of Black and White 2, and even if his history wasn't really explained much, that was his story and his game and Pokemon has moved on. It's a personal bias because I like Zygarde so much, but I'd much rather Z be about him!

I do really like Kyurem too though, I think a cool thing would be to have a sidequest like the Celebi one, where you go back in time and witness the original dragon and all that. I don't think I'd like for the original dragon to ever actually exist again, as that would mean losing Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem.

 

[pika pal]

As far as I know, Lugia and the birds' relationship is only defined in the second movie and there isn't really mention of it in the games. So I'd be a little wary on that comparison. Regigigas works on all counts, but the generation 4 games were first and foremost about Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina; he was just a side thing. That could work though, as we do have the statues of Zekrom and Reshiram in the Parfum Palace and they could easily add an underground level to it.

That said, like Pikachu315111 said, they did have their chance of focusing on the original dragon back in Gen 5. Kyurem was undoubtedly an important part of Black and White 2, and even if his history wasn't really explained much, that was his story and his game and Pokemon has moved on. It's a personal bias because I like Zygarde so much, but I'd much rather Z be about him!

I do really like Kyurem too though, I think a cool thing would be to have a sidequest like the Celebi one, where you go back in time and witness the original dragon and all that. I don't think I'd like for the original dragon to ever actually exist again, as that would mean losing Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem.

Well, as you noted, Regigigas was also a bit of a side thing in Gen 4, so maybe we could get a little history of the original Dragon as a side thing too.

On the other hand, a part of me does kind of want the Original Dragon not to appear, because actually showing up and being a legitimate mon I think took a lot of wind out of Arceus's sails.

 

[Xen]

Well, as you noted, Regigigas was also a bit of a side thing in Gen 4, so maybe we could get a little history of the original Dragon as a side thing too.

On the other hand, a part of me does kind of want the Original Dragon not to appear, because actually showing up and being a legitimate mon I think took a lot of wind out of Arceus's sails.

I thought Mega Rayquaza already took Arceus's wind (literally)?

 

[Hulavuta]

Well, as you noted, Regigigas was also a bit of a side thing in Gen 4, so maybe we could get a little history of the original Dragon as a side thing too.

On the other hand, a part of me does kind of want the Original Dragon not to appear, because actually showing up and being a legitimate mon I think took a lot of wind out of Arceus's sails.

Yep, that's exactly what I said! It would be cool.

I don't think having the original dragon would do anything to overshadow how powerful Arceus is supposed to be, not anymore than any other legend that has been created after it anyhow. Original dragon is powerful but he's not the end-all be-all of anything.

The more that I think about it though, the more I think it won't be happening. I said earlier that it could work as a side quest, but there's just too much that would have to happen for that. A new Pokemon would have to be created (the original dragon in its true form), even if only a design, and the thing about the Tao trio is that their story is very much tied to the Unova region so I don't know if it would work to have it in Kalos. We already do have Legendaries popping up where they don't really belong nowadays, but they don't have any story significance which is what we want.

My main point is that having a story about the original dragon would be something on too large of a scale to be reduced to a simple sidequest. It would have to be a major part of the story, and the generation for the three to be part of the main story has already passed.

 

[pika pal]

Yep, that's exactly what I said! It would be cool.

I don't think having the original dragon would do anything to overshadow how powerful Arceus is supposed to be, not anymore than any other legend that has been created after it anyhow. Original dragon is powerful but he's not the end-all be-all of anything.

The more that I think about it though, the more I think it won't be happening. I said earlier that it could work as a side quest, but there's just too much that would have to happen for that. A new Pokemon would have to be created (the original dragon in its true form), even if only a design, and the thing about the Tao trio is that their story is very much tied to the Unova region so I don't know if it would work to have it in Kalos. We already do have Legendaries popping up where they don't really belong nowadays, but they don't have any story significance which is what we want.

My main point is that having a story about the original dragon would be something on too large of a scale to be reduced to a simple sidequest. It would have to be a major part of the story, and the generation for the three to be part of the main story has already passed.

I mean more that Arceus's appearance makes Arceus feel less powerful/awe-inspiring than a creator god should be. I mean more that part of what makes the Original Dragon intriguing is the mystery, compared to catchable Arceus honestly doing more to hurt the image than improve it.

I thought Mega Rayquaza already took Arceus's wind (literally)?

I don't really feel like Arceus had much wind to begin with. I went on a rant in Unpopular Opinions, but I just don't like the concept of that Mon actually being part of the roster.

 

[Mulan15262]

The original dragon wouldn't have to actually be a part of the roster. It could appear in a time travel quest, but not be catchable (at least, not until it splits into Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem).

This would also probably have to wait until Gen 5 re-makes come around, otherwise it would feel just thrown in, not really fitting.

 

[Hulavuta]

I mean more that Arceus's appearance makes Arceus feel less powerful/awe-inspiring than a creator god should be. I mean more that part of what makes the Original Dragon intriguing is the mystery, compared to catchable Arceus honestly doing more to hurt the image than improve it.

I don't really feel like Arceus had much wind to begin with. I went on a rant in Unpopular Opinions, but I just don't like the concept of that Mon actually being part of the roster.

I never really thought this, considering gods throughout mythology always take on basic human or animal form, not really anything unusual or special. The mystical and awe-inspiring things about them were what they could do, and their history, not necessarily appearance. Cronus is just a man with a sickle, not really a big deal, but when you see a painting of him among stormy clouds devouring his child, then you get a sense of what this guy's all about. When you go the Hall of Origin which is huge, completely empty, and just dripping with atmosphere, you get an idea of just how big of a deal Arceus is. When you access the HGSS event and there's an Arceus literally creating another god-level Pokemon, you get an idea of how powerful he is. It's not really about the design of Arceus in a vacuum, it's about images like this:

Although personally I'd say Arceus has a great design, that gives him an impression of being very powerful without having to be stupidly overdesigned to get a point across. The fact that we're not quite sure what kind of animal he is (he seems to be in the horse family but really it's not clear) and the fact that he is an animal at all makes him far less relatable and way more mysterious.

As for being able to catch Arceus making him seem weaker, eh I never got that idea either due to gameplay and story segregation. Because it's the same for almost every legendary Pokemon that are gods, like Groudon, Kyogre, Dialga, or Palkia, even if Arceus is on a much higher scale. Even then, Arceus does outclass almost every Pokemon and its versatility is second to none thanks to the plates. Besides, in the Sinjoh Ruins, Cynthia says that Arceus chose you and pretty much you can only command it because it deems you worthy and allows you to, so perhaps it's limiting the amount of power it allows any one person to wield.

 

[Pikachu315111]

I just got a new thought about the whole "Arceus" issue. Actually this theory can go for any of the Legendaries:

What if these Legendaries are just less powerful now? Like how old are some of these Legendaries? How many of them went into a long rest after doing the grand things they did? What if they pretty much spent all their god-like power pretty much forming the Pokemon World/Universe and are now just "normal" powerful Pokemon. Like they can still destroy the Pokemon planet with the power they have left, but it's much easier to destroy than to create. Also many times they looked like they needed a special item to have their power even return to a fraction of what it could have been like when they first existed. Like going through the Legendaries:

Groudon: It created landmasses in the past but nowadays it can only increase the intensity of the sun.
Kyogre: It created the oceans and seas in the past but nowadays it can only make it rain heavily.
Dialga: Its existence made time start to flow but nowadays it just has time manipulating powers.
Palkia: Its existence made space start to expand but nowadays it just has space manipulating powers.
Arceus: Its existence created existence (wrap your head around that sentence) but nowadays it just seems to act as a referee between Dialga and Palkia like Rayquaza is to Groudon and Dialga.

These are the main 5 I can think of though I'm sure I can BS something for all the major Legendaries if I needed to. My point is that though they're still extremely powerful Pokemon maybe they aren'tas powerful as gods anymore due to having spent most of their godlike powers creating the world/universe.

 

[Detective Barricade]

I just got a new thought about the whole "Arceus" issue. Actually this theory can go for any of the Legendaries:

What if these Legendaries are just less powerful now? Like how old are some of these Legendaries? How many of them went into a long rest after doing the grand things they did? What if they pretty much spent all their god-like power pretty much forming the Pokemon World/Universe and are now just "normal" powerful Pokemon. Like they can still destroy the Pokemon planet with the power they have left, but it's much easier to destroy than to create. Also many times they looked like they needed a special item to have their power even return to a fraction of what it could have been like when they first existed. Like going through the Legendaries:

Groudon: It created landmasses in the past but nowadays it can only increase the intensity of the sun.
Kyogre: It created the oceans and seas in the past but nowadays it can only make it rain heavily.
Dialga: Its existence made time start to flow but nowadays it just has time manipulating powers.
Palkia: Its existence made space start to expand but nowadays it just has space manipulating powers.
Arceus: Its existence created existence (wrap your head around that sentence) but nowadays it just seems to act as a referee between Dialga and Palkia like Rayquaza is to Groudon and Kyogre.

These are the main 5 I can think of though I'm sure I can BS something for all the major Legendaries if I needed to. My point is that though they're still extremely powerful Pokemon maybe they aren't as powerful as gods anymore due to having spent most of their godlike powers creating the world/universe.

Except they're not. Going by Cyrus' notes on Dialga/Palkia, and the fact they were creating what was apparently a brand new universe before the Lake Trio/Giratina interfered, they probably still wield just as much power as they did back in the day. Catching them in a ball seems to shackle the lion's share of their power, which was why Cyrus went through the trouble of luring the Lake Trio out so he could capture and use them to fashion a Red Chain (and duplicate it in Platinum) to pull Dialga and Palkia out of their pocket dimensions for his grand scheme. Groudon and Kyogre's powers to intensify the sun/cause heavy downpours was supposedly what helped shape the world, and threatens the balance of nature when awakened. (and before you mention going Primal, they're not Primal when their disastrous weather starts upon surfacing from the Seafloor Cavern)

Arceus doesn't really referee Dialga and Palkia. That seems to fall to (ironically enough) the 'violent' one of the trio, Giratina, mostly because it doesn't appreciate threats to its home, the Distortion World. I imagine that legendary Pokemon may occasionally deem a human worthy of seeing them, and very rarely, a chance to prove they're worthy of their company and aid on the human's journey for awhile. If they didn't want to be caught, not even a Master Ball would hold them. If any Pokemon didn't want to stay with their trainer, they'd simply leave, or so at least Iris' speech in Black/White seems to suggest.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Ah, but who's to say it wasn't the Red Chain's power that gave Dialga and Palkia the extra power needed to create a new universe? Yes Cyrus fashioned the Red Chain so that it would control them, but if the chain are strong enough to control them then surely they might have an additional affect such as a power amplifier. As for Groudon and Kyogre I was sort of bolstering their "past power" a little by saying they were able to create land and water. But still yes in their normal forms they started their weather apocalypse though I did say they were capable of doing that even in this presumed "present weaker form".

Well I had to give Arceus something to do, otherwise it's just... observing the world?

Now of course if the Pokemon is powerful enough to end the world obviously a trainer would have to prove themselves to it that said trainer is worthy to travel around with. But the question comes to how much power is needed for a Pokemon to reach that state (or if you believe what Iris said in BW. Personally I question that statement of her's since a Pokeball would seem like a good tool to contain a Pokemon that's out of control).

 

[Detective Barricade]

I'm pretty sure if they amplify their power Cyrus would do it to the point that the Lake Trio couldn't interfere with Dialga/Palkia in Diamond/Pearl. (Platinum shows that they're powerless to stop both of them at once, but then Giratina pokes out because it's not happy with Cyrus) Or at least mention that it would have that effect.

I think nearly every wild Pokemon actually does this. If the Sinnoh myth is to be believed, this is why wild Pokemon appear so often in the first place: to help humans whenever they can. (probably also explains why Blissey and Audino give out crap-tons of EXP when defeated) But they still want to test and make sure they're going to be helping a good human, though sometimes it doesn't quite go the way they may have hoped as may be the case with those under the command of higher ups in the various evil teams. (they've since gotten used to it. "A Pokemon raised by a bad person turns bad itself" and all that jazz) Legendary Pokemon may still come forth of their own accord if the world needs them to, and some may return to their chosen trainer once the need for them has passed. Keep in mind, it seems we take on the role of a particularly skilled, talented kid, so of course even these incredibly powerful, rare (possibly one-of-a-kind) Pokemon choose to appear before us and give us that chance to gain their assistance... and pet them and feed them Poke Puffs and whatnot. Even the Death Destruction Pokemon needs some love now and then.

 

[IcyMan28]

The minor Sinnoh myths of Canalave's library seem to be just that - myths. They add flavour to the game by making them seem more realistic; it's just humans trying to explain their natural world.

Personally, I think many of the mythologies of the pokemon world aren't compatible. We have Hoenn, where the pokemon of land and sea created the earth...and then Sinnoh says that the pokemon of time and space (intangible concepts) can manifest the physical world and create the region of Sinnoh. It seems more likely that each region has its own mythology as it applies to that region but not necessarily the whole world.

As for legendary pokemon in general, I think some of them are just that - legendary. Some of them actually wield unimaginable power - think Xerneas' ability to give life or Groudon's control over earth itself. Others, like Zapdos or Virizion, have been associated with some event or natural power and a legend developed around them, but they aren't necessarily as powerful as their title would imply.

What is the function of the PC? They're at some pokemon farm / zoo / professor ranch, as per the anime. Putting them in the PC represents you sending them to whatever site they would remain at. This is supported by ORAS' eon flute - no matter where you are, the Lati can come get you in response to the call.

 

[Detective Barricade]

The minor Sinnoh myths of Canalave's library seem to be just that - myths. They add flavour to the game by making them seem more realistic; it's just humans trying to explain their natural world.

Personally, I think many of the mythologies of the pokemon world aren't compatible. We have Hoenn, where the pokemon of land and sea created the earth...and then Sinnoh says that the pokemon of time and space (intangible concepts) can manifest the physical world and create the region of Sinnoh. It seems more likely that each region has its own mythology as it applies to that region but not necessarily the whole world.

As for legendary pokemon in general, I think some of them are just that - legendary. Some of them actually wield unimaginable power - think Xerneas' ability to give life or Groudon's control over earth itself. Others, like Zapdos or Virizion, have been associated with some event or natural power and a legend developed around them, but they aren't necessarily as powerful as their title would imply.

What is the function of the PC? They're at some pokemon farm / zoo / professor ranch, as per the anime. Putting them in the PC represents you sending them to whatever site they would remain at. This is supported by ORAS' eon flute - no matter where you are, the Lati can come get you in response to the call.

I may be missing something here, but Groudon and Kyogre haven't been stated to have created the Earth, just expanded the land and seas with their clashes until Rayquaza intervened and effectively told them to go to bed without dinner. And the creation of the Red and Blue Orbs.

Still, I believe you're on to something, and that while extremely powerful in some cases, the stories of the legendary Pokemon may simply be just that - stories. (though given Terrakion's enormous base Attack, I wouldn't be surprised if it really could bust through a castle wall in a single charge...)

Just the same, don't fuck with Mewtwo, and REALLY don't fuck with Rayquaza. And I dearly hope the saying about losing emotion if you touch Mesprit is false, because it's possibly the cutest out of its trio, IMO.

 

[stage7_4]

We got some clearer shots of that mysterious pokemon in the movie trailer:

...and it looks like a green, malformed Dunsparce.

 

[Karxrida]

Kinda looks like a weird chibi Gardevoir to me.

 

[WaffleTitan]

Kinda looks like a weird chibi Gardevoir to me.

In my opinion, it's obviously a new pokemon. It doesn't really resemble anything currently so far. It's probs the next base 600.

 

[Karxrida]

I mean I know it's a probably new Pokemon, it just looks like Gardey to me.

 

[WaffleTitan]

I mean I know it's a probably new Pokemon, it just looks like Gardey to me.

Yeah lol, sorry accodently quoted your post instead of hulavutas. I was just expressing my opinion not disagreeing with yours.

Edit: stage7_4's post not hulavutas

 

[Pikachu315111]

In my opinion, it's obviously a new pokemon. It doesn't really resemble anything currently so far. It's probs the next base 600.

Seeing it now, yeah, it's probably a new Pokemon. But the new 600 BST (and I'm assuming you mean the 600 BST Mythical/Event)? They usually save those for a movie during their generation or when the current gen is going to end (this movie should be focusing on Volcanion). Also it looks kind of too simple (like it's just a blob with eye(s). Like Mew is simple too, but there is form to the simpleness that I can make out its a creature. That thing, I think I can recreate it in paint with just the circle tool!). Now unless it can change forms I'm more willing to bet its a base stage of a new non-Legendary Pokemon, like Zorua. Now Zorua was introduced along with its evolution, Zoroark, who was the one that got promoted. Of course Zoroark was trying to "recapture" the success of Lucario though it didn't so looks like now they're maybe focusing on marketing a cute critter?

Speaking of coming with its evolution, I do hope we at least see another evolution stage of it. Right now its just a blob, I can't really tell what its suppose to be based on. If its evolution doesn't reveal what it's suppose to be based on I may join those who says GF had run out of ideas, and I'm the original poster of a thread that has a list of possible future Pokemon ideas!

 

[HelenTheHero]

To me, the unknown Pokemon looks like it could possibly be a Grass starter. Starters are generally plain, and if they are doing something new with the starters for Gen VII they might want to show off one of the starters. But yeah, it's most likely another cute to ERMAGGERDDDD SO BOSS evolution.