NOC Fire and Ice Mafia: Fire and Ice tie, the village loses.

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I'm gonna be brutally honest and say that actually I wasn't paying rssp1's posts a huge amount of mind during Day 2 itself. Ultras was scummy enough that I didn't think it was necessary, because I was so certain that Ultras was mafia that I didn't really want to get swayed by rssp1 (this sounds ridiculous, but it's because on my other forum I have a reputation for being on mafia lynches and jumping off them later thanks to their defense). However, that night I decided to read into rssp1 a bit more, and that's when I started thinking that rssp1 could be doc. I just got that general tone from his posts, and I had been searching for it all game so that I wouldn't push a doclynch, and rssp1 was the first true docread I had. However, rssp1's play in Day 3 is honestly what makes me think rssp1 is doc the most, since he sort of confirmed my beliefs before he even claimed with his posting style right from the word go (and the whole baiting me into claiming was I think only the work of a real doctor). That's why there's such a huge shift, which I admit I've noticed myself. If Ultras hasn't subbed out, though, I'd still probably be gunning his lynch right now.

You may now ask, "why would you start a lynch on him if you thought he was probably the doc?" It was so we would have this situation. rssp1, a semi-solid doc read at the time, and his cc (which I was kinda hoping would be UTO since I was scumreading him anyway). For me, that ratted out a mafia, unless it was jumpluff in which case my docread would have been off I guess. Pokeguy literally claimed not to be doc in what I see as sincere frustration, and I absolutely would have called him out on it if he'd claimed doc because of that. Obviously mafia claiming doc was not the optimal situation for them, so forcing this early on in the day I felt was a good plan of action. And of course if my read on Ultras was in fact correct and rssp1 is mafia, that lynch could have made him panic and make him clearly mafia, which I don't even have to point out is good for us.

I answered this above I think >_>.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that was more just me throwing UTO and rssp1 together, since I know I didn't put any thought into that scum team lol. As I said above, it was more that I looked into rssp1 more at night as opposed to during the day. I looked at UTO too but my opinion didn't really change much and if anything I thought he was scummier leading into day 3.


I must admit, I did actually appreciate you pointing me to where to respond, even if it was kinda asking the same question three times. Could everyone do that please? >_____>

Yeah, I can definitely appreciate this logic. You've posted more than enough about rssp1 and UTO for me to see that you're totally torn between them, and it's definitely the riskier yet more rewarding option as I said earlier today. On this note I would like to:
Lynch PokeguyNXB
I know he's mafia, anyway. Shit's gonna get real tomorrow though >___>
Second Paragraph: Why did you change your opinion so quickly? If you already had UltrasPlot as 99% scum, how could rssp1 convince you even after you decided to lynch him even when you voted him after you subbed in, and near the beginning of Day 3? And I don't really see how the panic part would rat him out as mafia or town, any player would be alarmed that they received a vote for no reason/weak reasoning, if anything I find rssp1 not really reacting more alarming because it just makes him more like your partner, and even more so when he declared you the most towniest even after your scummy vote on him. I still think you two being partners are likely. I also can't really understand why you think me ccing would rat out a mafia (I assume you were talking about me being mafia) because if you were looking at it that way then rssp1 would 100% be doctor and I would be mafia if I cced and impossible to be doctor, which is kind of odd considering you were confident he was scum and still had a kinda nullread on me.

Also the game wouldn't drag forever, because of the nightkills
 
How so? How is that dissimilar from your vote?

I think you phrased the sentence incorrectly, and I don't really think acid was in shape to tunnel ANYONE at that point in the game (sorry).

You understand that sudden vote changes after most specifically agreed I was not a good lynch target for the day would be incredibly scummy, and that everyone who switched their vote/voted near the end would be looked at closely, right? That's what i'm saying and you're disagreeing, and we're literally saying the same points over and over again. Look at the situation from a completely neutral situation and respond again, thanks.
Also i'm saying that I had no reason to play cautiously because the aggressiveness found in TIK and Ultras was getting them townread by basically everyone; pluff had a nullread for me after I subbed in, and that was due to my cautiousness, and I don't remember where Yeti slightly scumread me so i'll assume it was while Ultras was active like you said.
It's different because your scumreads were on people who were easy to go on with little risk while my vote on DLE was risky but I was confident that he was the best lynch choice even though he could completely rip me apart

Exactly, that's why you chose to vote him

At the time you subbed in, there were still about 10 calendar days or more and you could slip or gain traction eventually. You have to stop looking at the point of view where you know the day already happened and what happened and look at the point of view when you subbed in, we were still deciding votes and trying to force slips or connect scumteams. You could have still messed up, even though you were in a relatively safe position, to maximize your chances of not being lynched, playing cautious was the way to go. If anything you need to look at a different point of view

Uh you do realize that they were getting scummier and scummier as the day passed, only being really fully townread by DLE? And again, a nullread and a scumread by the two towniest players would get me worried for sure

#646 how do you miss that
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
Second Paragraph: Why did you change your opinion so quickly? If you already had UltrasPlot as 99% scum, how could rssp1 convince you even after you decided to lynch him even when you voted him after you subbed in, and near the beginning of Day 3? And I don't really see how the panic part would rat him out as mafia or town, any player would be alarmed that they received a vote for no reason/weak reasoning, if anything I find rssp1 not really reacting more alarming because it just makes him more like your partner, and even more so when he declared you the most towniest even after your scummy vote on him. I still think you two being partners are likely. I also can't really understand why you think me ccing would rat out a mafia (I assume you were talking about me being mafia) because if you were looking at it that way then rssp1 would 100% be doctor and I would be mafia if I cced and impossible to be doctor, which is kind of odd considering you were confident he was scum and still had a kinda nullread on me.

Also the game wouldn't drag forever, because of the nightkills
There was no contest for docreads, since no one else made me think they were docs at all. I explained the rest just now I think...

The game would never get through this day phase since we would never hit majority on anything, lol.
 
There was no contest for docreads, since no one else made me think they were docs at all. I explained the rest just now I think...

The game would never get through this day phase since we would never hit majority on anything, lol.
yeah we have a deadline for september 11th idk if it was serious or not.
How do you feel about rssp1 and my arguments? Have you been seeing anything that makes rssp1 look scummier or me look townier? Have all of my arguments been scummy or all of rssp1's arguments been towny? Or have you been ignoring them or just not having enough time to read them?
Also I just finished reading jumpluff's post once, I'll read it again later and post my full thoughts on it
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
yeah we have a deadline for september 11th idk if it was serious or not.
How do you feel about rssp1 and my arguments? Have you been seeing anything that makes rssp1 look scummier or me look townier? Have all of my arguments been scummy or all of rssp1's arguments been towny? Or have you been ignoring them or just not having enough time to read them?
Also I just finished reading jumpluff's post once, I'll read it again later and post my full thoughts on it
I've been skimming them because I don't have enough time to mill over every post in this thread carefully. I've been reading all of jumpluff's posts carefully because we pretty much know he's town, which are always the nicest perspectives to have in a discussion, and he's always replying to discussions so you get a good grip on what's going on. Basically you're acting like normal and rssp1 is acting like normal, by which I mean you're scummy and rssp1 isn't.
 
It's different because your scumreads were on people who were easy to go on with little risk while my vote on DLE was risky but I was confident that he was the best lynch choice even though he could completely rip me apart

Exactly, that's why you chose to vote him

At the time you subbed in, there were still about 10 calendar days or more and you could slip or gain traction eventually. You have to stop looking at the point of view where you know the day already happened and what happened and look at the point of view when you subbed in, we were still deciding votes and trying to force slips or connect scumteams. You could have still messed up, even though you were in a relatively safe position, to maximize your chances of not being lynched, playing cautious was the way to go. If anything you need to look at a different point of view

Uh you do realize that they were getting scummier and scummier as the day passed, only being really fully townread by DLE? And again, a nullread and a scumread by the two towniest players would get me worried for sure

#646 how do you miss that
I don't get how you can call a scumread on DLE not risky while stating a vote on him is - I understand that you're more strongly expressing a scumread that way, but you're also leaning towards the way the town wanted to lynch, while my insistence on acid got people pissed off at me.
No, I chose to vote him because he was my strongest scumread. It's literally the same as you for DLE except you went with the town opinion whilst I did not. DLE wasn't even responding to any of the votes/pressure on him, so don't say he could rip you apart when it was obvious he either didn't care or didn't want to respond to the accusations directed at him.
Ok, who else switched their views on me other than Yeti and jumpluff? Are you arguing Yeti/jumpluff were townier than UncleSam? Most people had all three in the same group and UncleSam seemed pretty convinced on me as townie.

I didn't know where it was because it was posted before I subbed in... It's easier to remember things when they're directly addressed to you.
 
I don't get how you can call a scumread on DLE not risky while stating a vote on him is - I understand that you're more strongly expressing a scumread that way, but you're also leaning towards the way the town wanted to lynch, while my insistence on acid got people pissed off at me.
No, I chose to vote him because he was my strongest scumread. It's literally the same as you for DLE except you went with the town opinion whilst I did not. DLE wasn't even responding to any of the votes/pressure on him, so don't say he could rip you apart when it was obvious he either didn't care or didn't want to respond to the accusations directed at him.
Ok, who else switched their views on me other than Yeti and jumpluff? Are you arguing Yeti/jumpluff were townier than UncleSam? Most people had all three in the same group and UncleSam seemed pretty convinced on me as townie.

I didn't know where it was because it was posted before I subbed in... It's easier to remember things when they're directly addressed to you.
Because DLE was tunneling me the entire Day 2? DLE was townreading you and he was extremely confident, that's why people were getting suspicous of you if DLE flipped scum. And the reason people were pissed off at you was because between my vote and your vote, we decided that DLE or myself would be the lynch target, and excluded acid, who you voted. And how would I know if he would come back and defend himself? Again, you should start looking at the pov where you didn't know what happened after my vote. If DLE didn't care about the game, he wouldn't have came and tried to start a lynch on me, am I right?

No, while UncleSam looked pretty clean Yeti and jumpluff were much cleaner imo, we can see that reflected by me, acid, and DLE. I never tried to start an argument where UncleSam was less townier, I was trying to state that a scumread and a nullread from mostly clean townies can change a lynch and make it happen.

Not much has been mentioned about you Day 2 so you didn't read much? idk how I feel about that argument when you were pretty active Day 2 and still made comments on other parts of the game.

I've been skimming them because I don't have enough time to mill over every post in this thread carefully. I've been reading all of jumpluff's posts carefully because we pretty much know he's town, which are always the nicest perspectives to have in a discussion, and he's always replying to discussions so you get a good grip on what's going on. Basically you're acting like normal and rssp1 is acting like normal, by which I mean you're scummy and rssp1 isn't.
According to you in Day 1 and Day 2 and the beginning of Day 3 rssp1 has been extremely scummy, him acting normal would make him look scummy. You have also not provided anything regarding me being scummy so idk how me being the way I am is scummy at all.
 
Im talking about at the point at which you cast your vote, when it was proven that DLE wasn't actually taking the effort to post anything useful (or anything at all really). I know why people were pissed off about my vote smh i literally stated it in that sentence...
I don't think you're understanding that nobody was going to lynch me at that point, you can argue that "I was getting scummier" (although pluff and yeti really were the only two who changed their opinion) but I don't think anyone other than maybe Yeti would have gone for a lynch on me that day even if they thought I was scum simply because they would get more information from other flips.
No i said I didn't remember it, and that was because it was before I subbed in. That's why I said I remember things when they're directly addressed to me.

Also who else changed their views besides Yeti and jumpluff?
 
Im talking about at the point at which you cast your vote, when it was proven that DLE wasn't actually taking the effort to post anything useful (or anything at all really). I know why people were pissed off about my vote smh i literally stated it in that sentence...
I don't think you're understanding that nobody was going to lynch me at that point, you can argue that "I was getting scummier" (although pluff and yeti really were the only two who changed their opinion) but I don't think anyone other than maybe Yeti would have gone for a lynch on me that day even if they thought I was scum simply because they would get more information from other flips.
No i said I didn't remember it, and that was because it was before I subbed in. That's why I said I remember things when they're directly addressed to me.

Also who else changed their views besides Yeti and jumpluff?
No DLE was pretty active near the beginning and middle of Day 2, he still possibly would have come back to make a defense (he did that near the middle of Day 2 as well), then proceed to tunnel me, it was a risk voting him no matter what but I did it because I thought it was the best, that's why

I still think there was a small possibility of you being lynched if you messed up, I already stated that's why I think you played more cautiously. Even if you didn't get lynched that day you could easily get lynched the next.

Even if you don't remember it, you made no response to it, or tried to justify you being town, making it look more like you just ignored it
 
No one really changed their views on you but more on UltrasPlot as he got scummier and scummier as he became more and more inactive, that as well as UncleSam at least nullreading you because of Yeti's post later on

Also I completely forgot about Celever putting you as definite scum, make that 2 scumreads and 1 nullread, makes you look even worse lol, guess he flip flopped tho so idk how that would work
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
According to you in Day 1 and Day 2 and the beginning of Day 3 rssp1 has been extremely scummy, him acting normal would make him look scummy. You have also not provided anything regarding me being scummy so idk how me being the way I am is scummy at all.
I said Ultras was scummy. rssp1 was a huge scumread because he subbed in for Ultras; rssp1 plays towny. I literally explained all this in my response to jumpluff read please(?)
Also I completely forgot about Celever putting you as definite scum, make that 2 scumreads and 1 nullread, makes you look even worse lol, guess he flip flopped tho so idk how that would work
I literally explained all this in my response to jumpluff read please(?)
 
I said Ultras was scummy. rssp1 was a huge scumread because he subbed in for Ultras; rssp1 plays towny. I literally explained all this in my response to jumpluff read please(?)

I literally explained all this in my response to jumpluff read please(?)
other than the doc claim thing which is WIFOM you have provided no evidence for rssp1 being doc, in addition why would you aim for a situation like this as you said in your post, do you just want confusion over fake and real docs/townies? Please provide more explanations. And just because you think rssp1 is doccy that doesn't excuse ultras behavior
I said Ultras was scummy. rssp1 was a huge scumread because he subbed in for Ultras; rssp1 plays towny. I literally explained all this in my response to jumpluff read please(?)

I literally explained all this in my response to jumpluff read please(?)
at that point you were still heavily scumreading him
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
other than the doc claim thing which is WIFOM you have provided no evidence for rssp1 being doc, in addition why would you aim for a situation like this as you said in your post, do you just want confusion over fake and real docs/townies? Please provide more explanations. And just because you think rssp1 is doccy that doesn't excuse ultras behavior

at that point you were still heavily scumreading him
Because it's shown us real connections between players and it's actually organised us quite substantially. If no one had doc claimed today then this place would be even more chaotic because it would be jumpluff trying to split hairs between the four of us trying to figure out likely scum teams with no general structure to said theories. Having the doc claim and then getting cc'd has simplified things a hell of a lot and has given town the greatest chance to win, I think.

And I don't think at this point Ultras' scumminess compares to yours since you were scummy at the end of Day 2 and in Day 3 that's only increased, whereas rssp1 is very much playing like town now.
 
Celever dochunting at night? Interesting. Also very interesting that you were trying to coerce rssp into claiming by your own admission, and rssp did not react to this. When I asked the doctor to claim I did it transparently.

Reply seems too forced to me, that Pokeguy post only ever got brought up again because I went back and found it. Also attempting to strongarm the IM, which allows for a lynch of 2 FM + 1 IM + 1T.

I look forward to UTO's response, and would request a clarification as to whether your vote is intentionally on Pokeguy, because you quoted Celever's post (which I doubt the current hosts will interpret as voting, but clarity is good).

Lynch Celever
 

Celever

i am town
is a Community Contributor
Celever dochunting at night? Interesting. Also very interesting that you were trying to coerce rssp into claiming by your own admission, and rssp did not react to this. When I asked the doctor to claim I did it transparently.

Reply seems too forced to me, that Pokeguy post only ever got brought up again because I went back and found it. Also attempting to strongarm the IM, which allows for a lynch of 2 FM + 1 IM + 1T.

I look forward to UTO's response, and would request a clarification as to whether your vote is intentionally on Pokeguy, because you quoted Celever's post (which I doubt the current hosts will interpret as voting, but clarity is good).

Lynch Celever
It wasn't necessarily dochunting, I just looked back over rssp1's and UTO's posts because they were the new subs who'd done stuff and I hadn't paid them the attention they deserved the previous day.

Also a lot of my replies probably will seem quite forced because I'm very much an intuitive player as opposed to doing lots of thinking behind it. This plan leading into Day 3 is one of the only times I've actually thought through consequences and acted accordingly this game... usually I'm much more "spur of the moment what seems right at the time". I guess I should stick to that since I'm getting lynched for actually thinking things over now >~<

And we need the Ice Mafia on our lynch because the Fire Mafia isn't about to vote for themselves are they? Majority is four so acidphoenix's vote is kinda essential.
 
No DLE was pretty active near the beginning and middle of Day 2, he still possibly would have come back to make a defense (he did that near the middle of Day 2 as well), then proceed to tunnel me, it was a risk voting him no matter what but I did it because I thought it was the best, that's why

I still think there was a small possibility of you being lynched if you messed up, I already stated that's why I think you played more cautiously. Even if you didn't get lynched that day you could easily get lynched the next.

Even if you don't remember it, you made no response to it, or tried to justify you being town, making it look more like you just ignored it
You said it yourself, he was gone for a week by the time you had made your post.

That's opinionated, so i'm not sure how to respond to that.

It wasn't directed at me... not sure how I can validly defend myself over a point that's not being made about my behavior.

jumpluff, are you 100% for a lynch on Celever over a lynch on UTO/me? I still feel a UTO lynch is better but if you're not going to change your mind then there's no other option.
 
Unvote I voted him by accident
Because it's shown us real connections between players and it's actually organised us quite substantially. If no one had doc claimed today then this place would be even more chaotic because it would be jumpluff trying to split hairs between the four of us trying to figure out likely scum teams with no general structure to said theories. Having the doc claim and then getting cc'd has simplified things a hell of a lot and has given town the greatest chance to win, I think.

And I don't think at this point Ultras' scumminess compares to yours since you were scummy at the end of Day 2 and in Day 3 that's only increased, whereas rssp1 is very much playing like town now.
Uh weren't you null reading me near Day 2, and how did rssp1 suddenly become more towny when I'm doing the exact same thing as him? Examples? Anything at all? And the confusion is just split into ttwo (me/rssp1 and pokeguy/you over me/pokeguy/you/rssp1. And how do doctor claims show us any connections?

You said it yourself, he was gone for a week by the time you had made your post.

That's opinionated, so i'm not sure how to respond to that.

It wasn't directed at me... not sure how I can validly defend myself over a point that's not being made about my behavior.

jumpluff, are you 100% for a lynch on Celever over a lynch on UTO/me? I still feel a UTO lynch is better but if you're not going to change your mind then there's no other option.
I voted after a week he posted it and on the page as his gif?

Guess the other points are fair, but Yeti still had a scumread on you that she could push the next day
I don't really have much to add unfortunately... but if we're voting now Lynch Celever
How could you not find anything to talk about when jumpluff literally made a post with half of its contents about you and saying how you are the most likely scum?
 
anything specific about pokeguy or just the last point you brought up?

also RE: the DLE point, he'd been gone for a week and the GIF showed that he had no interest in contributing to the thread.

Also, who were you voting for? O-o
 
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