Battle Spot - Simple Questions and Answers

[teamjohto]

I also think an assaultvest user should not have a 4x weakness for a common attacking type cause it will be sniped with moves of that type.

I don't think having 4x weaknesses changes the dynamics of pokemon holding Assault Vest over anything else. You are still aware that you're not gonna leave AV Tyranitar in on a Breloom just as you would never leave him in holding anything else.

But I do agree that the mon should have some form of natural boosting, since AV limits your set-up to just Power-Up-Punch.

But I've actually had a lot of success with AV Magnezone, with the analytic ability being your free life orb, Specs Analytic is still a better set, but becoming a 3HKO on special attackers is more life-saving than you think.

and AV T-tar is also just fun to use imo, knowing that even a Mega Gengar Focus Blast isn't gonna KO it is a beautiful thing. Give it power up punch for some offensive set-up and you'll be surprised how far it takes you.

 

[Omastar68]

Reuniclus is also a good AV user. I got beat in a really long battle by a Reuniclus and an Audino. Is Reuniclus also a good user of Dual Screens? If not, what would be better. Also, what are all the Pokémon that can get away with running Reflect or Light Screen but not bot both? I know Serperior, but that's it.

Actually, would Memento be good on Magcargo? It has access to dual screens, Memento, a fairly useful ability, Infestation, and 30 base speed rather than 20, which is what I thought it had. Base 30s have the privilege of outspeeding most stuff that's paralyzed, unlike base 20s.

 

[cant say]

I feel like if you're using AV Reuniclus instead of Calm Mind or Trick Room variants you're using it wrong

Nothing on Magcargo is good, because it isn't a good Pokemon.

Rotom-W/H can use Light Screen to patch it's SpD alongside Will-O-Wisp, or use Reflect instead to be ultra physically-defensive.

If you want to use Dual Screens then try Klefki.

 

[Omastar68]

Probably should, thanks. How does it compare to Cresselia(which has much better bulk and Lunar Dance) and Latios, which has Memento and some offensive presence even w/o investment. I agree about Magcargo not being a good Pokémon. It should be good-but its really more like the fire version of Corsola. I just thought maybe for Dual Screens since it has Memento and stuff, but probably not. I've actually been trying Musharna on PS for Dual Screens. It would be great if it was faster, but base 29 speed isn't enough for a screener.

 

[6tennis]

Raikou is also a great Dual Screens user, even with its low bulk, namely because it can pivot into offensive setup sweepers that thrive off of Screen support. Aside from that, Screens are mainly reserved for Triple or Field Effect Spam Battles Rotation Battles.

 

[Omastar68]

They're definitely better there(can't imagine NOT doing screens in Triples), but they're still really good in Singles. I think the idea is to use them with something that can set up, though I'm using screens Klefki now without any set up Pokes, and it's working pretty good(way better than Musharna.) I do miss Healing Wish, though, since I took off Musharna and Clefable. That's why I was wondering about Cresselia.

 

[Carbonific]

Reuniclus is also a good AV user.

Posting relevent article: Click. Scroll down to the bottom ("The Exception:").

 

[Omastar68]

Posting relevent article: Click. Scroll down to the bottom ("The Exception:").

Good article, and I really like the picture at the top. Is AV Rhyperior bad now? The Strategy Dex analysis for BSS claims otherwise, and according to the PGL, almost half of Rhyperior run AV in BSS. I get that that article is for RU, but I want to make sure. Pretty crazy anyone would consider something like Ambipom or Whimsicott for AVV, and the fact that someone felt it was necessary to even list NFE Pokémon... AV is definitely a fun item, whose potential seems almost limitless. I noticed Registeel was listed as one of the bad AV users, but wouldn't running Charge Beam/PuP change things? Maybe not for Registeel, since its special movepool is trash and it likes status category moves like SR and T-Wave, but for something with similarly low offenses and an offensive boosting move?

 

[a0161613]

Is that article for Battle Spot or OU etc?

 

[Psynergy]

That article is a great reference for AV use, but I actually disagree with AV Reuniclus being strictly bad. Even within the context of RU for which it was written, someone popularized AV Reuniclus temporarily before it left the tier later in ORAS so it has since been shown that Reuniclus is not necessarily a bad Assault Vest user. (My mistake on this actually, I believe it was Regenerator Specs, not AV) The article gives great guidelines when considering what should and shouldn't run Assault Vest, but it doesn't translate perfectly to other formats (or even current RU since AV Slowking, one of the best AV users at the time, is now probably Slowking's worst set). According to PGL, AV is actually the second most used item on Reuniclus with similar usage on Regenerator (14-19%). I don't think it's a bad item on Reuniclus, but that being said it's not the strongest set Reuniclus can run and Magic Guard Life Orb sets will typically serve you better in most cases (which gets about 40% LO usage).

As for Rhyperior, it was often seen as something better fit for Stealth Rock support (offensive sets did exist though) so naturally AV is not a great item for it in 6v6, and that doesn't translate well to Battle Spot where it's more of an offensive tank (as described in the article). The faster pace in 3v3 makes an item like Assault Vest more appealing on Rhyperior since being able to survive just one more attack is a lot more influential, and it has the huge attack to back it up. Registeel on the other hand is just a really bad Assault Vest user, even with a boosting move a base 75 offensive stat is still pitiful and if you're using Registeel for any reason, you want to take advantage of its support tools (though I still wouldn't recommend Registeel in BSS, as much as I like the guy).

 

[elnimio]

You guys think the VGC '16 rules will affect the battle spot at all?

 

[cant say]

Yeah what Psynergy said, Rhyperior loves using Stealth Rock in 6v6, whereas here that slot is usually filled with Fissure (a move that cannot be used in Smogon formats).

Also, while some things / ideas can definitely be taken from Smogon formats and used in BSS, just as many (if not more) cannot as the formats are very different. So just be wary when trying to link the two together... (it's why we wrote an analysis for Rhyperior, because it plays differently and its 6v6 analyses cannot be transferred across)

You guys think the VGC '16 rules will affect the battle spot at all?

The VGC16 rules will not be imposed on Battle Spot, so it will not change anything. It just means less people will be playing on the Doubles ladder because they can't use it for VGC practice. More people may play free battles though (instead of ranked) because that allows legendaries. We will probably also see more battle competitions that the same (or at least similar) to the new VGC ruleset (which I especially don't want to see....)

 

[Demantoid]

You guys think the VGC '16 rules will affect the battle spot at all?

In addition to what cant say said it will likely be the Special format for at least a season. I personally hope they add vgc as a constant playable format.

 

[Omastar68]

Is Eviolite Dusclops a thing? I ask because I haven't seen it(well, maybe once) even though I know it used to be seen as good(what changed?)

 

[teamjohto]

Eviolite Dusclops is just a frustrating beast that sits there and doesn't die as it will-o-wisp's targets and maybe packs a night shade, but has only recovery moves in Rest and Pain Split, neither are stellar options for a wall.

There's also a curse set with trick room for it, and the even more niche calm mind set, but Sableye or his mega does the same job just so much better with that prankster under his belt and actual access to recover.

but Eviolite mons that are weak to dark are even more susceptible to Knock Off than usual, I learned that the hard way while experimenting with Eviolite Doublade.

It's a niche option, but honestly there's better eviolite walls out there such as Chansey.

 

[Omastar68]

I thought so. It seems like it should be such a good Poke, but actually isn't.

 

[cant say]

It's more of a Doubles / Triples mon because it can set Trick Room easier due to being immune to Fake Out (and very decent bulk). I haven't seen it used in Singles, theoretically it could be cool with Trick Room + Memento, just pray they don't send in a Taunt user I guess

 

[Flare Blitzle]

Which Hidden Power type is best on Ninetales? Ice, Rock and Ground all seem like they'd be useful and I'm having trouble choosing. Fighting also seems like it could be fair game too.

If Hidden Power isn't necessary please say so before I start the nightmare that is Hidden Power breeding. I guess I'll be told that the HP used will likely be team specific but I figured I'd ask regardless because you're all more experienced than me.

 

[a0161613]

Which Hidden Power type is best on Ninetales? Ice, Rock and Ground all seem like they'd be useful and I'm having trouble choosing. Fighting also seems like it could be fair game too.

If Hidden Power isn't necessary please say so before I start the nightmare that is Hidden Power breeding. I guess I'll be told that the HP used will likely be team specific but I figured I'd ask regardless because you're all more experienced than me.

Hidden Power isn't in the top ten moves for Ninetales.

I don't think it's worth it.

 

[NOVED]

Which Hidden Power type is best on Ninetales? Ice, Rock and Ground all seem like they'd be useful and I'm having trouble choosing. Fighting also seems like it could be fair game too.

If Hidden Power isn't necessary please say so before I start the nightmare that is Hidden Power breeding. I guess I'll be told that the HP used will likely be team specific but I figured I'd ask regardless because you're all more experienced than me.

I'd go with ice or ground. If your team really hates heatran then ground is probably the way to go, and vice versa for mega mence. But with mega mence, you could always burn it with wisp if you choose to not opt for ice(if its not facade). But both hidden powers are pretty specific and probably wont be used all too often since other targets for ice either outspeed you(garchomp) or are already hit hard enough by fire moves anyway(lando-t, which might also be scarfed and outspeed) so its usually only gonna be useful for mence. And ground doesnt really hit anything besides tran. I guess rock could be interesting, hits talon and zard y. Idk the calc but if hp rock can pick up an ohko on max spdef talonflame then it'd probably be cool.

Hidden Power isn't in the top ten moves for Ninetales.

Yes it is

 

[Flare Blitzle]

Hidden Power isn't in the top ten moves for Ninetales.

I don't think it's worth it.

Really? Last time I checked it was. How often do they update that stats? I swear I looked sometime in December, though maybe it was November.

I'd go with ice or ground. If your team really hates heatran then ground is probably the way to go, and vice versa for mega mence. But with mega mence, you could always burn it with wisp if you choose to not opt for ice(if its not facade). But both hidden powers are pretty specific and probably wont be used all too often since other targets for ice either outspeed you(garchomp) or are already hit hard enough by fire moves anyway(lando-t, which might also be scarfed and outspeed) so its usually only gonna be useful for mence. And ground doesnt really hit anything besides tran. I guess rock could be interesting, hits talon and zard y. Idk the calc but if hp rock can pick up and ohko on max spdef talonflame then it'd probably be cool.

Thanks a bunch for the reply!

Even Modest Specs HP Rock doesn't OHKO max Sp.Def Talon just calced it. :(

252+ SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Talonflame: 152-180 (82.1 - 97.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

[a0161613]

Yes it is

I'm not seeing it for any format on PGL.

Admittedly it's surprising but it's not.

 

[ProjectTitan313]

Since Battle Spot Doubles (currently) runs the VGC15 ruleset, and our VGC subforum is converting to VGC16 for hopefully obvious reasons, will discussions/threads about Battle Spot Doubles be allowed since it's basically it's own, unique metagame existing on Battle Spot (like triples and rotations)?

Which Hidden Power type is best on Ninetales? Ice, Rock and Ground all seem like they'd be useful and I'm having trouble choosing. Fighting also seems like it could be fair game too.

If Hidden Power isn't necessary please say so before I start the nightmare that is Hidden Power breeding. I guess I'll be told that the HP used will likely be team specific but I figured I'd ask regardless because you're all more experienced than me.

Fighting: No. Only hits Heatran/TTar; far too weak to be of any use against either one.
Rock: hits Volcarona, Char-Y, Moltres, and Talonflame. Ninetales actually beats Volc 1v1 thanks to Volc's lack of a Fire resist, and the other 3 will murder your ass anyway with viciously strong Fire moves, Ancientpower, or Flying STAB. So no.
Ground: 2HKOs Heatran, unless Balloon. Wouldn't run it unless you are in desperate need of a secondary Heatran check + lure.
Ice: hits Mence, Chomp, and Landog. Shuca is REQUIRED to tank an EQ (in Singles/Rotations at least, doubles spread damage reduction allows bulky Ninetales to tank EQ), and 252+ Modest Ninetales HP Ice doesn't OHKO any of them with an offensive 4/0 spread. Stealth Rock would maaaaaybe justify it in Singles. Mostly: no.

Ninetales has a reasonable support/disruption movepool and you'd be better off utilizing that instead. Shuca + WoW to stop Garchomp, Disable, Hypnosis, etc.

 

[Flare Blitzle]

Admittedly it's surprising but it's not.

Unless I'm looking in the wrong place it's still there for me too

Hide

Fighting: No. Only hits Heatran/TTar; far too weak to be of any use against either one.
Rock: hits Volcarona, Char-Y, Moltres, and Talonflame. Ninetales actually beats Volc 1v1 thanks to Volc's lack of a Fire resist, and the other 3 will murder your ass anyway with viciously strong Fire moves, Ancientpower, or Flying STAB. So no.
Ground: 2HKOs Heatran, unless Balloon. Wouldn't run it unless you are in desperate need of a secondary Heatran check + lure.
Ice: hits Mence, Chomp, and Landog. Shuca is REQUIRED to tank an EQ (in Singles/Rotations at least, doubles spread damage reduction allows bulky Ninetales to tank EQ), and 252+ Modest Ninetales HP Ice doesn't OHKO any of them with an offensive 4/0 spread. Stealth Rock would maaaaaybe justify it in Singles. Mostly: no.

Ninetales has a reasonable support/disruption movepool and you'd be better off utilizing that instead. Shuca + WoW to stop Garchomp, Disable, Hypnosis, etc.

Thanks too!

I think I'll try without and if I feel myself needing one then go back and breed another one.

 

[NOVED]

I'm not seeing it for any format on PGL.

Admittedly it's surprising but it's not.

You might actually be blind..

singles

doubles

triples