Just the VGC online competitions
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Battle Spot - Simple Questions and Answers
- Thread starter Age of Kings
- Start date
So I'm trying to use the Mishimono VGC 15 Kanga balance team and I'm planning on using a Milotic I've traded for. It's modest but with HP Grass IV's 31/even/31/30/31/31 but I'm struggling to tailor the 236 HP / 140 Def / 100 Sp A / 12 Sp Def / 20 Spe spread, short of taking 4 EV off of Special Attack. Any help?
If you plan on playing with it very often I would honestly breed another. Otherwise you could probably move 4 from Spe to SpA since it looks like it was just for speed creeping while I believe the SpA hit a benchmark.
Edit: it doesn't actually matter either one is fine.
I'll definitely rebreed if I enjoy the team. I'm trying out a couple from the sample thread. I'm going to try out the format in this season.
Bulbapedia is a little vague on the moves effects, so could someone explain some stuff about the move Punishment? Only positive stat boosts improve the damage, while negative stat boosts don't lower it, but is a Pokemon that's had Swagger and Charm used on it, and is thus at +0 Atk, gonna take more than the lowest power of 69 or not? Also, Bulbapedia says accuracy and Evasion are ignored. Does that mean the foe's accuracy and Evasion boosts don't make Punishment stronger, or that the move can't miss. I think Punishment might have some use alongside Swagger, and Calm Mind users, which are boosting but not boosting their Def, take huge damage from it w/ a decent amount of boosts.
Punishment is kinda bad, as it's utterly useless against non-boosters and Swagger is very much a double edged sword against Physical mons.
Could be useful on a Technician mon (since base power is 60) but nothing with Technician learns it.
"Evasion and Accuracy are ignored" I would assume is the same as Sacred Sword; it will not miss unless the foe has Brightpowder / Sand Veil / similar effects, but won't increase in power against Double team / Acupressure's Evasion/Accuracy boosts. So as I understand it:
1) Weavile used Punishment against an Arbok that just used Coil: ((60+(20*2))*STAB = 150 power. The accuracy boost of Coil is not counted; so same as a Bulk Up, Swords Dance, Dragon Dance, Calm Mind, etc.
2) Swagger followed by Charm; Punishment used by Weavile: ((60+(20*2))*STAB = 150 again. Counts the stages increased, ignores the decreases.
imo Swagger + Foul Play is far more effective, especially with Dark STAB. You don't want to depend on your foe getting a bunch of stat boosts. Really funny Moody counter though, I guess.
That would be hilarious vs Moody Pokes! Persian gets Punishment and Technician. It still sucks, but just gonna point that out. It's not so much that it's a bad move as it is that few Inge that get it are bulky, powerful, and get STAB(or else do enough w/ it they don't miss STAB.) Lando-T seems like a reasonable user. After it uses Swagger, the opponent is only really at +1 Atk, though Punishment is still base 100 power. Sableye would be a good user if it didn't get Foul Play, though maybe it can see some use as it's much stronger vs stuff like Shuckle(extreme example of when Def is way higher than Atk.) I tried to make a set for Miltank in BSS cause it's got Sap Sipper, and while I think it's sorta viable, it doesn't have room for Swagger + Punishment. Dreadful 4MSS, that one. Mandibuzz seems like a relatively decent user, having the bulk to Swagger comfortably on some physical attackers and STAB on Punishment. She also doesn't have nearly as bad 4MSS as everything else that gets Swagger, so she can maybe give up two move slots for SwagMent. Not sure that's any good though. Thoughts on Punishment Mandibuzz and Lando-T?
That buzzard is one of my favorite mons ever, the only VGC tourney I ever won was all thanks to her, funny enough. I really should use it again.
Mandy: Again, STAB Foul Play is better, and Mandibuzz is actually an extremely good user, thanks to STAB, great bulk, and Roost. Swagger can be used for Special mons I suppose, and spike Foul Play in the process. If you want to stop boosters: Whirlwind. Also she has horrible 4MSS. She wants Foul Play / Knock Off / Taunt / Roost / Toxic / Whirlwind pretty much always in Singles, Doubles she wants Tailwind and Snarl on top of all that. And that's ignoring Flying STABs she should never run unless you want the ultimate Amoonguss/Breloom counter or something.
Landog: Knock Off is all the Dark coverage it needs, reliably KOs any floating Ghost or Psychic mon you like, removes items on switchins, and is in general the best move ever to spam. Swagger, doesn't help much on Special mons; using it means no AV, and without AV, there's a lot of Special mons that break Landog easily like Hydreigon and <insert water type here>.
No no no, when it says that positive stat boosts power it up and negative boosts don't, that's talking about separate stats, not how many times they've literally boosted their stat.
So if you use Swagger then Charm, they'd be back at +0 so it wouldn't power up Punishment. If you used Swagger and then Rock Tomb, so their stats are +2 Atk and -1 Spe, Punishment would have +40 base power, rather then 20.
It explains this really well when you read the description properly:
So if you use Swagger then Charm, they'd be back at +0 so it wouldn't power up Punishment. If you used Swagger and then Rock Tomb, so their stats are +2 Atk and -1 Spe, Punishment would have +40 base power, rather then 20.
It explains this really well when you read the description properly:
The last bit just means that those boosts do not count towards Punishment's power. It's not like Sacred Sword where it hits all the time, the description for that move says specifically that it "ignores defence and evasion boosts."Bulbapedia said:
I'm not sure why I wasn't thinking of Foul Play on Mandy. Yes, definitely better than Punishment alongside Swagger, or even w/o it. Landog likes Scarf and AV, and both make Swagger impossible. The item it would use alongside EdgeQuake and SwagMent would have to be something kinda odd like a Yache Berry or...something, idk. Swagger doesn't necessarily have to be run w/ Punishment, as if you have other Pokes that use SwagPlay/ParaFusion, they'll leave the foe w/ stat boosts when they die. Suicune is also an obnoxious Pokemon that(pretty much) always boosts itself.
Just ran some calcs, Suicune needs to have used Cakm Mind 4 times(or been Swaggered 4 times or some combination thereof,) to be 2HKOd by 252+ Atk Landog's Punishment. That actually doesn't seem very good, as I thought Suicune would be one of Punish,ent's main targets. Never mind then, not a very practical move. Maybe on Persian in PU if Swagger becomes legal, that's about it.
Another thing I'm wondering about is the move Retaliate. I saw a Scarfed Braviary w/ the move on PS, and while that wasn't the best, the move seems good. 140 BP STAB the turn if one of your Pokes just fainted. That's pretty insane on Mega Kanga, for one, due to hitting twice harder than DE w/o recoil. Megamence might be able to make use of it w/ Aerilate, and Mega Lopunny hits those pesky ghosts w/ it. Ofc, the most use you'll ever get out of it in a single battle is two uses, since it's trash w/o the doubled BP, but does it hard enough to make up for it?
In a similar vein, does Giga Impact make any sense for Kang? Does it get any KOs DE doesn't that are really important and worth taking the recharge turn?
Retaliate looks really cool ingame, and it it's the best revenge kill move ever, sure, but it's very situational and not all that much better than Return when boosted, and a shitastic 5 PP / 70 BP with no secondary effect 95% of the match. Facade, Return, and D-E are all Khan/Mence should be using (physical-wise). Secret Power does not roll its amazing secondary effects twice with Parental Bond, so it's pretty iffy imo.
At some point in early VGC14 (I believe, may of been 15), a Khan weapons race led up to Giga Impact MegaKhan. Sure, it'll fucking annihilate literally anything not immune / stupidly bulky Rock or Steel types, including mega Venusaur which was actually popular at the time, but the nuclear fallout turned everyone that used it into Detroit. Just a dead heap of shit with a glorious past that no one cares about. It eats up a moveslot, shouldn't be used in 98% of circumstances, and your foe gets a free turn to kill you and/or set up.
I couldn't find a better place to ask, so I'll ask here.
Does anone know how the Japanese players practice for non-battlespot formats? Like before online competitions? Do they have a simulator like showdown, or do they just study a lot and have some practice battles?
Does anone know how the Japanese players practice for non-battlespot formats? Like before online competitions? Do they have a simulator like showdown, or do they just study a lot and have some practice battles?
I believe some do use showdown. They likely have their own forums where they can have practice battles and discuss it. Judging by the large amount of Japanese players they would probably be more active than this forums is. It's also possible they have more in person interaction due to high population density.
Yeah, I think they can get quite far in terms of understanding the meta by discussing and sharing ideas much more actively than us here on smogon. Maybe that let them get away with less actual practice.
They practice by kicking my ass with Gravity HypnoBat and Scarf DV Smeargle + BD Azumarill on Battle Spot at 3:45am Tokyo time. They appearntly don't sleep, work, or go to school so that's an advantage too.
Probably a lot of direct person-to-person interaction and battling. Forums, blogs, and IRC channels probably aren't too rare either.
PS! has the online competitions formats when they're announced, and Japanese players definitely play on it. However, the sheer number of them playing compared to us basically guarantees that at least one of them will come up with some idea that totally destroys everything, practice or no practice. Not that many westerners actually play the online comps, with the focus being mainly on VGC and Smogon metas. It's something we're trying to change, by attempting to draw in more people through social media etc. so we have more people theorymonning together and then maybe one of us will be the one to come up with the meta-destroying idea, lol.
Another thing I've thought about is that because we play on PS a lot to practice for those comps, our teams are tailored towards what dominates that meta, which turns out to develop differently to the Japanese meta which is evolving simultaneously within their community. Then we get to the actual comp on-cart, and it turns out to be slightly (or sometimes, very) different because again, the sheer number of them playing means the meta is mostly their strats rather than ours, and we get surprised by everything. It's similar to how different countries VGC metagames can be (slightly) different, depending on what's trending at their PCs. A similar thing happens with regular Battle Spot Singles, and is why I encourage everyone to play on cart more instead of the PS ladder, as the metagames are, however slightly, different.
edit: realised I didn't really answer the question, lol. I think that their enormous community working on the same idea is what enables them to come up with better strats, which makes up for the lack of actual practice. But I'm sure they do battle, whether on PS or locally, before the comp starts.
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If anyone's used or familiar with Ludicolo in Doubles:
AV Set: Does it ever run more than 252 HP / 4 Sp. Def and Modest?
Rain sweeper: 4 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed is standard, yes?
AV Set: Does it ever run more than 252 HP / 4 Sp. Def and Modest?
Rain sweeper: 4 HP, 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Speed is standard, yes?
Most AV Ludi sets in Doubles are used as rain answers themselves, so I'd assume that they run a little Speed investment to hit some benchmark or other (84 outspeeds 252+ base 130s under rain, for instance, which is handy for Mega Gengar and support Aerodactyl as well as outpacing Weavile's Fake Out) with max SpA and the rest in HP.
Are any of Healing Wish, Cosmic Power, or Mittor Coat viable on Mega Lopunny in Singles? I'm currentlay running Return/HJK/Substitute/Mirror Coat. Mirror Coat gets a KO on stuff like Rotom-W, Mega Manectric, and Cresselia if it uses Psychic, among others. My understanding of it is that, if the foe breaks my sub w/ a special attack, and I use MC, the damage returned is double what their attack would've done to me, not what it actually did to the sub.
Healing Wish would be kinda odd simply because he target of it should usually be your mega, and since Lopunny is my mega...well, it could still work, I think, but it's not as good as Lunar Dance on Cress, for instance. I've never seen Cosmic Power(or any of these moves, for that matter,) on Lopunny. But it can be pretty interesting, boosting on opponent's that are paralyzed and confused, on predicted switches, and when you're behind a sub. The boosts are kinda hard to make use of since Mega Lopunny isn't inherently bulky and it's only recovery is Drain Punch.
Also, is Adamant a reasonable choice for nature? 252 speed EVs still outspeeds Max Spe 115s by a point, and I have paralysis support from Thundy(my bulky one takes Megamence to town, btw,) while my team doesn't fear Gengar or Greninja very much. Adamant gets some extra KOs like on 252/0 Aegi, and that's w/ 52 EVs in HP to survive 0 Atk Talon's BB. I could go Jolly and Fake Out>Mirror Coat, but idk what's best. Finally, I want to mention that I don't really need Uce Punch, as Thundy and Mamo provide adequate ice coverage.
Healing Wish would be kinda odd simply because he target of it should usually be your mega, and since Lopunny is my mega...well, it could still work, I think, but it's not as good as Lunar Dance on Cress, for instance. I've never seen Cosmic Power(or any of these moves, for that matter,) on Lopunny. But it can be pretty interesting, boosting on opponent's that are paralyzed and confused, on predicted switches, and when you're behind a sub. The boosts are kinda hard to make use of since Mega Lopunny isn't inherently bulky and it's only recovery is Drain Punch.
Also, is Adamant a reasonable choice for nature? 252 speed EVs still outspeeds Max Spe 115s by a point, and I have paralysis support from Thundy(my bulky one takes Megamence to town, btw,) while my team doesn't fear Gengar or Greninja very much. Adamant gets some extra KOs like on 252/0 Aegi, and that's w/ 52 EVs in HP to survive 0 Atk Talon's BB. I could go Jolly and Fake Out>Mirror Coat, but idk what's best. Finally, I want to mention that I don't really need Uce Punch, as Thundy and Mamo provide adequate ice coverage.
yes for hwish, no for cosmic power, no for mirror coat. lopunny's one big use is as a super-fast frail offensive mon, and mirror coat both compromises it's speed (literally it's only selling point) and tries to make use of bulk that lopunny simply doesn't have. cosmic power sucks because lopunny isn't making use of non-offensive boosts ever and it's a waste of free turns that you could be using to just smack something, also lopunny shouldn't be taking hits in the first place. healing wish is pretty good because giving something like scarf garchomp or lo aegi two runs at a team can be overwhelming. it's pretty situational on lopunny tho so it's not the best pick but w/e it's up to you. if you're running sub lopunny, your best options for the fourth slot are one of encore, power-up punch or baton pass. encore synergises well with sub and lets you screw over a whole bunch of things including aegislash and anything that tries to land a status move on you, power-up punch takes advantage of the sub to net you free boosts and baton pass allows you to pass subs.
lastly, i'd advise against adamant because lopunny's ability to outpace things like greninja and gengar is the #1 reason to use it (lopunny is probably the reason your team is faring so well against them tbh) but if you're certain that nothing above the 115 speed tier scares your team (unlikely) then by all means try it. jolly is better in 99% of cases tho.
lastly, i'd advise against adamant because lopunny's ability to outpace things like greninja and gengar is the #1 reason to use it (lopunny is probably the reason your team is faring so well against them tbh) but if you're certain that nothing above the 115 speed tier scares your team (unlikely) then by all means try it. jolly is better in 99% of cases tho.
The only things I really care about Jolly outspeeds at Adamant doesn't are Gengar and Megamence, and both are susceptible to paralysis and dealt w/ by some of my other Pokemon(Gengar doesn't appreciate Chomp SDing on it, if it does WoW it gets healed by Lum, Thundy is obnoxious for it w/ ParaFusion antics-same goes for Mence, plus HP Ice-Venu does little damage to Gengar since I replaced EQ, but she still plants a Leech Seed if it's not behind a sub. Mamoswine also does pretty good vs Gengar.) So the only one of the two that's really major is Megamence, and Ai need Ice Punch for him, which I'm not rinning.
Forgot about Encore, will definitely use that. I'm maybe a bit surprised that MC is unviable, though I can accept that, but I kind of expected Cosmic Power was a bad idea. You can't really be bulky fast and powerful, so Mega Lopunny has to sacrifice it's bulk to some extent. PuP affects everything, so it's better to use on the foe's switch. Is there any other weird stuff viable on Lopunny. Think I'm settled on a set, but I'm curious. Fire Punch seems stupid, but what about Thunderpunch for Gyara? Then there's Magic Coat and Thunder Wave(latter seems pretty iffy, but you never know.) Lastly is the ultimate gimmick in Baby-Doll Eyes. Could be good for Talon, and things like Megamence, especially on an Adamant Lopunny. Has anyone ever seen it/ run it?
Generally they try to reach at least a speed stat of 108 (140 evs) which outspeeds scarf Lando in rain. There's also speed creeping since thar's a common benchmark. After that they tend to max SpA and throw the rest into bulk.
So, less bulk than I was using for calcs. Awesome.
May have found the funniest fucking answer to PoliColo + MegaMence ever. Will post details/video codes if it goes according to plan.
And no, it's not Lapras; doesn't fare well against Ludicolo.
Remember that you can only run three pokemon tough, and if mega lopunny is also able to beat aegislash and gengar, you don't have to bring other counters for these pokemon which gives you more freedom of choosing which pokemon you want for the rest of your opponents team, which gives you a better 3vs3 matchup, which can mean anything in this format.