SPOILERS! General Pokémon Anime Discussion

[Pikachu315111]

I can't see Ash coming out on top in that fight, especially after the revelation on how Greninja's new form(e) works.

Well considering Ash has years of being attacked by a Charizard he probably built up some resistance to it which will go over to Greninja. :P

Building up resistance training

Now I do think it would be interesting if Ash-Greninja lost and Ash realizes he needs a Mega Pokemon to actually fight a powerful and experienced Mega Pokemon (let's remember Korrina's Mega Lucario was newly Mega Evolved so it was still getting used to its new power) which would lead to him getting a Mega Pokemon. BUT that would mean there would be no point in having Ash-Greninja (unless it is something that's in the games) if it can't compete with a Mega Evolution and Ash would be better off getting one anyway. I recently watched the Olypmia episodes (yeah yeah, I know, I tend to forget so I need to catch up) and she said Greninja will have an important role in the future, aka the storyline. Only way I can see they make sense for there being Ash-Greninja and Ash getting a Mega Pokemon is maybe if they built on the pseudo-rivalry between Ash and Sanpei and his Greninja gets the Ability to become Sanpei-Greninja (because its kind of weird that a random trainer's Greninja would be a prophesied Greninja of a ninja clan instead of, you know, a Greninja owned by a member of said ninja clan).

 

[Pikachu315111]

So I finally watched Hoopa and the Clash of Ages and, woo-boy, it was a complete mess. Watching this movie I could only think how maybe executives, merchandise, and/or advertising people were telling the story writers to shove in as many elements of ORAS as they could and we already know the Pokemon anime story writers aren't really the best. I'm not going to go over the movie plot point to plot point so instead I just have a list of things I wanted to say:

Thar be much reading in here spoiler tab

The Plot: I'm just going to cover the overall premise of the movie and not much into details. Long ago Hoopa Unbound appeared to a desert village (later to become Dahara City where the movie takes place) an in exchange for food it opened up portals of treasure making them rich. The village asked how strong Hoopa Unbound was and so it began summoning Pokemon to battle but got so out of hand it began summoning Legendaries to battle which caused utter chaos. Hoopa Unbound's power was sealed away within the Prison Bottle until it could learn to be responsible with it, being overseen by a family who somehow have mastery over the powers of Arceus. Year later a boy part of that family goes seeking the Prison Bottle but gets possessed by it.
Meanwhile Ash & co. who, after some portal shenanigans, meet with Hoopa and a girl part of that family. Boy comes back and releases the Prison Bottle but something evil overtakes Hoopa and the power needs to be put back into the bottle. Its discovered the power within the bottle has become angry for being sealed away and now wants its freedom to become the real Hoopa. Team Rocket released the power and though Hoopa fought it off the power turns into a shadow version of Hoopa Unbound. The Prison Bottle is also destroyed so while Ash & Hoopa are distracting/running away from Hoopa Unbound everyone else goes to build another Prison Bottle. Hoopa Unbound and Hoopa Confined summon a whole batch of Legendaries to fight each other with also. Anyway they make the Prison Bottle but Hoopa Unbound is too strong so Hoopa Confined has to confront it and calm it down allowing Hoopa to take control of it. However all the Legend summoning did something and caused a tornado of doom to surround them and start closing in. Using Hoopa's portals they transport everyone to safety except the boy caretaker and Hoopa (BTW Hoopa can't go through its own rings, for some reason). Just before being erased/destroyed/crushed the closing in stops as Arceus appears to be a dues ex machina. Hoopa learns the true meaning of friendship and is able to go through its rings along with the boy caretaker. Hoopa teleports every Legendary home and it and its caretakers says bye to Ash & co. having helped Hoopa regain and control its Unbound power.
As you can tell its kind of a mess and its rushed through. Well, anything important is rushed through, when they're goofing around they have plenty of time for that. I think the words that best describe the plot is "missed opportunity". Instead of staying in Dahara City for the entire movie we could have teleported all over the Pokemon world (and along the way met/summoned Legendaries). But nope, instead we stay in one location and they just summon a whole bunch of Legendaries because in ORAS that's how you meet most of the Legendaries, via Hoopa's rings.
Not to mention the backbone of the story could have used some work. The setting makes sense since Hoopa is a genie and its overall not a bad idea but I feel like they hadn't gotten to the "why is this like the what it is?" part of story making when they were told to wrap it up and start making the movie. You'll know what I mean as I go to my other points (which aren't as long as this one).

Hoopa's Strength: I have to call BS on the power that Hoopa Unbound has. We see it take on multiple mascot Legendaries at a time yet winning (to be fair it never beats them, rather pushing them back through a portal, but its seen taking multiples blasts yet not being phased by it). Like in the beginning of the movie it takes on Groudon & Kyogre and then Reshiram, Zekrom, & Regigigas who all blast it yet when the smoke clears its a-okay and uses a Dark Pulse to shoot them back through its rings, them looking like they took a big hit (to be fair to Groudon & Kyogre they had their attacks redirected to one another by Hoopa-U). Then before the "Clash of Ages", when Hoopa Unbound was just looking around for Ash & Hoopa Confined, Hoopa-C had summon a Lugia which keeps on Brave Birding Hoopa-U which looks like it hurt it but not really as it ignores it until just before the Clash of Ages where it portals it away (BTW, Lugia doesn't participate in the big clash, because trailers always lie for Pokemon movies). I'm also pretty such it probably took a few attacks from MEGA Rayquaza yet wasn't phased by it.
I get it, you want to show Hoopa-U as a powerful Pokemon... but quite honestly it would get creamed by the Legendaries it's battling against. Also it takes control of several Legendaries including 3 which are essentially deities and the Primals? And if they can summon as many Legendaries as they want why did they stop at the number they did? But that's for another complaint point.

Arceus Power: Wait, how can this family control Arceus's power (especially when in a previous movie we met characters who literally had pieces of Arceus yet at best they could only communicate with Pokemon)? It also feels completely unneeded except to justify Arceus appearing at the end of the movie.

Ring Trick: So a crux of this movie is Hoopa can't go through its own rings (yet it can stick its hands through no problem...) which is why the caretakers decide to go get the Prison Bottle to releases it true power. Okay, fine. So at the end of the movie they're getting everyone caught in the tornado out by having the now controlled Hoopa-U power portal everyone to safety until it's just Ash & co., the caretakers, and Hoopa left. But despite Hoopa having its full power it STILL can't go through its rings. What?! In the end it has to learn the true meaning of friendship and that somehow allows it to get through its rings.
If I had to guess maybe they did this to explain why we aren't teleporting around the world... which is still stupid as this is a problem only created by the writers. Oh, and when Hoopa-U first appeared at the beginning of the movie to the village it did so by hoping through its portal ring so it's not like we didn't see Hoopa-U do that before.

What Continuity: So for the most part I can sort of see why continuity with Ash knowing most of these Legendaries isn't that important as Ash and the Legendaries who are one of kind don't really interact that much. But still there are other moments where you question things. Like Hoopa-C summons a whole bunch of Pikachu which isn't odd a first... but then we see the whole group of Cosplay Pikachu! So, are all these Pikachu actually Frank's? Also when Hoopa's caretakers show them the arc of Arceus its Clemont who recognizes it while Ash stays quite the entire time except to act amazed like he never heard of Arceus before.
I get anime writers, you don't like continuity (maybe you should have thought about that before making Ash the permanent star of the show, hmm)... but if you don't want continuity don't open up holes where you can! For example, Arcues didn't need to be in this movie. Arceus is not one of the Pokemon who appears through Hoopa's rings neither in ORAS or in the movie. Yet you shoved him in there because... because.

Evil Hoopa-U: So why is Hoopa-U evil? Actually correction, why is the power of Hoopa-U evil? Is the power a consciousness of its own? They sort of brought that up in the movie but don't really answer it besides saying it and Hoopa-C are one and the same. So what, was part of Hoopa's consciousness also sealed away? Because the way Hoopa-C calmed Hoopa-U was by showing it the happy memories it had experienced throughout the years and that somehow works. Why would it care if Hoopa-C had happy memories when it was still trapped in a bottle so didn't experience them itself? It feels like this is an incomplete idea, like part of Hoopa's consciousness was trapped or maybe the power was too corrupting and Hoopa was suppose to somehow split itself thus creating the two Hoopa (think how Majin Buu form Dragon Ball Z split himself). But they didn't have time to flesh this idea out so sort of combined what they had.

Fire, Ground, & Water: BTW found out why the event Arceus (which we didn't get...) has Blast Burn, Hydro Cannon, and Earth Power. Well, we knew it was another ORAS tie-in, but it's also referenced in the movie. To make a new Prison Bottle they need Fire, Ground, and Water because the represent the earth or something like that. It's still an ORAS tie-in and a rather hammered in one. I'd also like to remind you all that Groudon and Kyogre are just bit players in this movie.

All The Legendaries: So the main draw of this movie was the clash of ages, that big battle between Legendaries, yet it's missing several notable Legendaries. Just going by mascots, Ho-Oh didn't appear at all during the movie, Lugia was sent back through a portal before the clash began, and we saw Reshiram and Zekrom (and Regigigas) but they weren't summoned for the clash. Like if you're going to do this clash thing haphazardly at least go all out! Like the 580 trios and cute mascots would probably be too much but what Mewtwo, Deoxys, Darkrai, Cresselia, Heatran, Forces of Nature, and Gensect. Oh, and a little two Legendaries you might have heard of, YVELTAL AND XERNEAS! You didn't even have the mascot Legendaries of THIS generation? Oh wait, I forgot, ORAS. Well, to an extent, Deoxys, Cresselia, Heatran, and the Forces of Nature were in ORAS (but not Arceus yet he showed up) but I think by now I think I've shown the writers have no clue what they were doing.
Had they gone world hoping not only could they have encountered these Legendaries but other's too like the 580 Trios and the cute Legendaries and it would all make sense (or somewhat more sense).
Also, why Lugia, the Eon Duo, and Rayqauza agree to help Ash & Hoopa-C? Especially Rayquaza who previous times we saw it went into a rage. This movie actually made all the Legendaries not named Hoopa look like chumps. Heck, when the good Legendaries Mega Evolved only Kyurem changed Formes to match, Giratina could have reverted to its Origin Forme but didn't.

Empty Destruction: So the Legendaries are in a middle of city and are just wrecking it. Surely hundreds are being killed as building are being blasted and slice to bits and there should be panicking the streets as everyone tries to flee from the city... too bad the city is empty. No, that's not a plot point, the city is suppose to be inhabited, infact we even see people on the street looking up at a Legendary launching an attack going "what?". No citizen of this city seemed affected by this thus the destruction of the city feels hollow and has no weight. You're not showing anyone is in danger so what am I suppose to feel when they're destroying buildings willy-nilly?

Suddenly Mega Evolution: Ignoring that Groudon and Kyogre are in their Primal Forms when summoned by Hoopa-U, somehow when battling the possessed Legendaries the Eon Duo and Rayquaza all Mega Evolve (because of ORAS, BTW Ash & Hoopa are flying on the back of the Eon Duo... because ORAS). Now I guess this does explain a bit better how those 3 can taken on 6 other Legendaries, but still how did they Mega Evolve? Can Legendaries just Mega Evolve when they choose to in the anime?

Sitting Around Watching The End: So in the end they forces some drama by having a tornado of destruction start wrecking things because they summoned too many Legendaries (a similar plot point which was sorta done better in Life Is Strange). They say its a time-space collapsing thing... which would be a big problem if they DIDN'T HAVE DIALGA AND PALKIA RIGHT THERE! Oh, Dialga and Palkia try to do something but for some reason their power doesn't work so them and the other Legendaries are just sitting there at the end of the movie doing nothing as destruction is happening before them. You're Legendaries, DO SOMETHING!

 

[Karxrida]

The XYZ season was announced for the US, and is coming next month on the 20th. We're also getting all of the movies digitally remastered over the course of the year, starting with The First Movie on the 19th of this month.

 

[Cresselia~~]

We are getting digitally remastered movies as part of 20th anniversary event.

I'm so happy. I LOVE Revelation Lugia, it's my favourite ever animated movie.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Would it be too much to ask if they could also re-dub the first movie to make it more align with the original Japanese plot (not saying to get rid of the 4Kids dub, but it would be interesting to compare)?

EDIT: *sigh* Is Ash trying to tackle the Legendary Pokemon again?

What is the definition of insanity again?

Doing the same thing and expecting a different result, was it?

Yes Ash, tackle the giant creature covered in armor who's pumping boiling hot water through its body...

 

[Karxrida]

Plot synopsis for the new movie.

As Ash continued his journey aiming to become a Pokémon Master, a lump covered in white smoke suddenly dropped out of the sky and landed in front of him and his friends. As white smoke spread around as far as the eye could see, a shape appeared from within it; The mythical Pokémon Volcanion.

Ignoring the worried Ash and his friends, Volcanion, who hates humans, immediately tries to leave the place. However, the impact of the fall caused Ash and Volcanion to be linked together by a strange device, leaving them unable to separate...!

Volcanion runs off and Ash gets dragged along by it, eventually reaching the Azoth Kingdom, a city of super-machinery where gigantic cogwheels are all over the place and rotating. Why did Volcanion fall from the sky? And why did it head to the Azoth Kingdom!? With the mechanical kingdom of machinery as its setting, the hottest legend in Pokémon history begins!

Something really interesting is that it's going to a place called the Azoth Kingdom.

Also it fell out of the sky. But the first part I mentioned is more important.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Ah, so that's why it looks like Ash is tackling Volcanion, he's stuck to it. Odd plot point, I mean I don't think you need to essentially kidnap Ash (& co.), they're usually more than welcome to follow along into unknown danger.

Went a bit off topic here for a moment

Actually this is reminding me of an episode of Kim Possible where, after an encounter with Professor Dementor, Kim & Ron accidentally take one of his inventions called a "Bondo-ball" which, as the name applies, sticks people together (Kim got stuck with her school/cheeleading rival and Ron got stuck to their drill sergeant teacher); hilarity ensued, lessons were learned, and they got unstuck.

It was an interesting, fun, and good episode; I doubt the same would be said about the Pokemon movie even though it'll have 5 times the running time.

BTW this is the thing where they said something is suppose to happen that'll "change the whole Pokemon world", right?

 

[Ming-Ming]

Would it be too much to ask if they could also re-dub the first movie to make it more align with the original Japanese plot (not saying to get rid of the 4Kids dub, but it would be interesting to compare)?

I actually don't know if the Pokémon Company can even do that, like... I'm not sure if they would need to call up 4kids (If that's actually a company anymore), or if they'd have to get every single VA they used for the 1st Movie, to re-dub the film.

And one issue is, some VAs may not be doing voice work anymore. Or they might not be available. I guess they can get some other people to fill in the roles, but it seems like a lot of effort, for what's probably not worth it. I imagine fans would want the movie they saw as a kid, not a film that's more accurate to the Japanese language. BUT the Pokemon fandom is Pretty Weird, so who knows!

 

[Pikachu315111]

I actually don't know if the Pokémon Company can even do that, like... I'm not sure if they would need to call up 4kids (If that's actually a company anymore), or if they'd have to get every single VA they used for the 1st Movie, to re-dub the film.

And one issue is, some VAs may not be doing voice work anymore. Or they might not be available. I guess they can get some other people to fill in the roles, but it seems like a lot of effort, for what's probably not worth it. I imagine fans would want the movie they saw as a kid, not a film that's more accurate to the Japanese language. BUT the Pokemon fandom is Pretty Weird, so who knows!

First Pokemon Company owns all the movie rights, they need to ask 4Kids nothing. Second, I'd imagine they'd use the current cast instead of trying to get as many of the older cast as possible and finding sound alikes for those they couldn't. But as you said, many would prefer the original movie and I said they should also include it, I was just thinking out loud it would be interesting to have a more accurate dub to compare it too.

 

[Ming-Ming]

First Pokemon Company owns all the movie rights, they need to ask 4Kids nothing. Second, I'd imagine they'd use the current cast instead of trying to get as many of the older cast as possible and finding sound alikes for those they couldn't. But as you said, many would prefer the original movie and I said they should also include it, I was just thinking out loud it would be interesting to have a more accurate dub to compare it too.

And the thing about using the new cast is, obviously, the older fans would prefer the old voices rather than hearing the new ones.

So it kind of stinks that, in reality, a re-dub might not pan out. Though I didn't know the Pokemon Company owned all the movie rights. That is new information to me.

 

[Pikachu315111]

So it kind of stinks that, in reality, a re-dub might not pan out. Though I didn't know the Pokemon Company owned all the movie rights. That is new information to me.

Why wouldn't they?

 

[Ming-Ming]

Why wouldn't they?

Oh, it's because I assume, since the VAs were working under 4kids, that the Pokemon Company would have to contact 4kids about them.

It made sense in my head, at least...

 

[Pikachu315111]

Oh, it's because I assume, since the VAs were working under 4kids, that the Pokemon Company would have to contact 4kids about them.

It made sense in my head, at least...

4Kids did produce the dub until the Battle Frontier arc, but that's as far as their involvement goes. The Pokemon Company has always owned anything strictly involving Pokemon (including the anime and movies) and licenses out to things partially (such as Super Smash Bros., I think Nintendo has to have permission from Pokemon Company and GameFreak to have Pokemon in Smash (not like they would say no, but they would probably require Nintendo to follow some rules and want certain approval rights)). But back to the anime ad movies, either they hired or 4Kids asked for the license to dub the anime. When the Pokemon Company decided to dub the anime themselves the only thing dropping 4Kids do was that 4Kids decided to not allow their voice actors to continue voicing their characters on the show. However the right to do distribute and do whatever they want with the movies have always belonged to the Pokemon Company.

 

[Karxrida]

The most likely reason as to why a redub won't happen is because it's committing a lot of resources to something that probably isn't going to make a whole lot of money.

 

[precita]

The dub itself isn't popular enough anymore to warrant doing anything special with it. Old fans wouldn't want the old characters redubbed, and they certainly aren't going to redub 600 episodes of Battle Frontier, DP, BW and now XY with old voices. Not to mention Ash and TR are the only old characters still around so all the characters from DP onward never had any prior 4kids voices to begin with.

Most of the people obsessing over old voices are still those random genwunner original trio fanboys who still think Misty is going to come back or that the writers are going to reunite the original trio someday. They're people who think the anime is going to turn back into what it was in 1999 because of their childhood nostalgia, when in reality the anime has moved on so far passed the original seasons that everything from that era is now dead and buried.

Seriously, some people have been doing this for over a decade, and you see them on places like youtube, deviantart, or various social media sites. They used to whine on main pokemon forums like Bulbagarden/Serebii for years until they eventually all got banned there or got bored and left.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Misty? LOL.
The majority of the anime's audiences are now grown Japanese male wanting Serena as waifu.
These are the same males that grew up with Misty, but obviously, Misty is so hated in Japan (by both males and females) that she really isn't going to return at all.

People just have to realize that the anime is not popular in USA anymore, and there's no way the writers will write according to their preferences anymore.

 

[Norne]

Dimensión W is one example of Anime with an American market in mind, just look at its commercialization, Sanrio has expressed their will to open an studio in America and apparently they would press on with it almost as hard as they are doing it with SBR! Franchise, Love Live is a commercial monster that has great distribution even outside of Japan.

I mean it ain't space dandy tier of cooperation but it's still there, let's not forget some upcoming projects like the whole muv luv thing.

 

[Pikachu315111]

precita:
Is this somewhat directed at me (or at least springboard from what I said)? I was just suggesting it for the first movie only (and I know they won't do it because no reason to, it would be just be easier to release the Japanese version with subtitles... which actually isn't that bad of an idea (if I recall 4Kids did this with episodes of Yu-Gi-Oh! 5Ds and they even kept in cursing and references to death & stuff)), not for entire anime seasons.

Misty? LOL.
The majority of the anime's audiences are now grown Japanese male wanting Serena as waifu.
These are the same males that grew up with Misty, but obviously, Misty is so hated in Japan (by both males and females) that she really isn't going to return at all.

People just have to realize that the anime is not popular in USA anymore, and there's no way the writers will write according to their preferences anymore.

Look, I get Misty isn't popular in Japan, that's fine. Everyone has their favorite female companion (Misty is mine, BTW, but that's because I've been watching the anime from the beginning so have a bias). However I'm getting real tired of hearing about Serena being the best companion because otaku perverts consider her "waifu material" BS. Look, I like Serena enough, she has an interesting character arc (now that they're finally developing it) and though I role my eyes at the whole crush on Ash thing (Misty developed her crush over Ash over the first season of the anime, Serena just came with it because when they were both kids Ash bandaged her leg and they hung out at a summer camp... that Ash doesn't even remember) it's at least some backstory. But back to my point, just as the writers aren't going to bring Misty back (which personally I'm not asking, I'd just like Ash to at least mention his previous companions or we get a cameo from them... BTW shouldn't Iris be having some guest appearance episodes) these "Serena my waifu" people also should realize she ain't staying around next gen. Next gen it's highly likely Serena will be gone and replaced with either the next female playable character or girl Gym Leader and will probably have a personality different from Serena thus won't be "waifu meterial" for them.

I get pandering to a certain viewer base, but I think this is the wrong crowd to pander to since they're very fickle about which anime dream girl they want and will just as easily up and leave if they don't get it so unless you keep Serena around or replace her with someone just like her then why are you pandering to people who will leave once she's gone? Are you that desperate for viewers? If so, maybe its time to rethink how you do things in the anime (like actually following the game's story).

 

[Norne]

Dude, it's pandering, but it ain't the wrong crowd, shipping sells no question asked, it's the ultimate non self insert power fantasy for wannabe writers and it increase audience.

Also there is a big cultural difference to be honest, the tomboy girl arrived at a wrong time before the early 2k tsundere boom, and outside of the West misty bombed so hard it wasn't salvageable due to a shift in tendencies, heck outside of very early precure installments sporty gals or tomboy never really stuck.

Go with a meek character that doesn't question the MC self insert power trip alpha status and you can't go wrong. That's one of the main rules of marketing towards a young Japanese demographic.

 

[Pikachu315111]

Go with a meek character that doesn't question the MC self insert power trip alpha status and you can't go wrong. That's one of the main rules of marketing towards a young Japanese demographic.

WOW, that sounds sexist as all hell. I guess the female audience doesn't need a strong role model. Also they didn't have a problem with this last gen, Iris was pretty much Misty 2.0.

And also for the show in general Ash needs someone to counterbalance him. None of Ash's companion call him out on things (though Ash hasn't done a lot of things wrong, but that's the writers doing more than anything to make him look amazing to Serena) or does he have a concrete rival. Ash is kind or dull and generic without either, he just becomes a generic anime protagonist. Like I didn't like how Iris constantly belittled Ash or how Trip was kind of a lesser Paul but at least they sparked conflict between them and Ash giving some sign of personality outside what normally is shown.

Also, as I said, will they then keep Serena or replace her with someone like her next gen if this is the audience they decide they want?

 

[Norne]

WOW, that sounds sexist as all hell. I guess the female audience doesn't need a strong role model. Also they didn't have a problem with this last gen, Iris was pretty much Misty 2.0.

And also for the show in general Ash needs someone to counterbalance him. None of Ash's companion call him out on things (though Ash hasn't done a lot of things wrong, but that's the writers doing more than anything to make him look amazing to Serena) or does he have a concrete rival. Ash is kind or dull and generic without either, he just becomes a generic anime protagonist. Like I didn't like how Iris constantly belittled Ash or how Trip was kind of a lesser Paul but at least they sparked conflict between them and Ash giving some sign of personality outside what normally is shown.

Also, as I said, will they then keep Serena or replace her with someone like her next gen if this is the audience they decide they want?

It's sexist as hell, look at the niche that a certain Gundam series had on the female market, then look at the LN market, Japanese writers and PR staff know how to handle the dichotomy presented by the two target groups acquisition power.

It's pandering done right, they know their market and they sell accordingly.

And nope, that's your opinion, look at the countless LN characters, they are alpha on beta clothing selling the idea of harem lead without questioning it's status, Ash has taken a step on this direction with a crew of semicapable rookies but subtracting the problems caused by being in a group by making them act family like, if anything this is the most mature group we have had where they support each other and don't bicker at each other, the day of vitriolic best buds is over my friend, conflict in group is long gone and each individual is seeking goals that don't disturb each other as of XY and the start of XYZ point.

Forcing character interactions by group conflicts or misunderstandings isn't the name of the game as of now, heck it would be extremely out of character if it happened at this height of the climb.

Trip was a failed experiment akin to Iris being Misty 2.0 in wich he was hyped at the start but poorly received in the end, even though Ash is closer to his DP persona in this installment calling parallelism between DP would be a far fetch when the team structure has been following an advance generation format.

 

[Pikachu315111]

First off, what's LN?

Japanese writers and PR staff know how to handle the dichotomy presented by the two target groups acquisition power.

What?

And what do you mean by "pandering done right"? I'm not saying your wrong here, I just want to know what you think it means before I agree because it's what I think it means.

Also, this audience you're talking about I don't think cares about the anime. Pokemon could probably release 5 minute shorts with Serena doing her shtick with no story and they'd be just as happy. I'm even curious if they care about Serena's story at all.

Look, you can have Ash have a dominant personality, he did so in DP. However having everyone act completely okay with each other with none ever conflicting with each other? It doesn't feel natural, it feels like they're okay with each other making mistakes and not learning from it. But that doesn't mean they hate each other, quite the opposite, it means their worried about the each other making a mistake. And they still bickered with each other even though none of their goals crossed and still felt like a strong family-like bond. And most mature group? Because they don't bicker? Ash is a rash anime protagonist, Serena is swooning over a crush she barely knows, Clemont is the most mature but he has his moments (mainly when he brings out a new invention and loudly proclaiming "SCIENCE!"), and Bonnie acts like a little kid (thinking about it, I think of the core group Bonnie is my favorite character since she's written like she's suppose to be). What I'm saying it doesn't feel like there's a strong dynamic between them, like I think I could write a lengthy paragraph about Ash's relation with his other companions but not sure if I can with the XY crew (though this is an unfair thing to say since XY isn't over).

And why would it be out of character? They're kids aren't they? Ash is still canonically 10. Kids are selfish, kids make mistakes.

Ash is closer to his DP persona in this installment calling parallelism between DP would be a far fetch when the team structure has been following an advance generation format.

How so?

Look, I don't think until next gen we're going to come to a resolution. Honestly our arguments really hinges on how the next female companion will be. If she is/acts like Serena than you're right and this is what the writers are aiming for. But if she's not than I would say Serena just so happened to fit into the niche you're putting her in rather than specifically made to be.

Right now I'm going to end this post by saying, though I said of the core group Bonnie is my favorite, of all the character right now I'm actually quite liking Alain. Alain is also presented with a dominant personality but there's a major difference which puts him above As: he also has flaws. Alain is essentially a loner who thinks he can/wants to do everything himself (later revealed he wants to have power so he can protect his friends). This is where Mairin comes in. Mairin and Alain bicker but its because they care about each other and at least Mairin wants to help Alain (Alain more wants to push her away because he knows what he's doing is dangerous and doesn't want her or her Pokemon to get hurt). This dynamic between the two pays off in various ways. In the third Mega episode Mairin saves Alain showing he can't do everything himself no matter how powerful he gets. The fourth Mega episode I'd argue have one of the strongest moments in the XY series as Alain's constant pushing away had inadvertently caused Chespie to come down with an unknown symptom and putting emotional trauma on Mairin, the exact things he was trying to avoid and now he's on a mission to fix it since he feels this is his fault, showing extreme anger and determination. Honestly I'd rather follow Alain than Ash since he's just as dominant of a character (maybe even more so) but he's also interesting due to his flaws and mistakes which he does have to overcome.

 

[Karxrida]

First off, what's LN?

I believe it stands for Light Novel.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Actually, attempting at another Tsundere who's actually pretty can be popular nowadays.

It's true that Misty came the wrong time for the East, when Asuka (from Evangelion) was the only successful Tsundere model.
The thing that sets Asuka and Misty different is that Asuka actually is pretty.
Easterners are ok with pretty girls being tsundere, but not tomboy/ ugly ones.
Iris being another failure, not because of being tsundere, but being tsundere AND not pretty. (Dark skin isn't conceived as pretty in the East, as I explained before)
(...but I like Iris.)

Tomboy on it's own isn't that bad. There are other tomboys in other franchises. (See: Charlotte)
It's just that Misty is tsundere+ ugly + tomboy-- it's a triple hit.

If someone who looks like Serena or Hilda is actually a tsundere, I don't think people would mind. Love-struck tsunderes are loved by many.

Yes, Serena's going to leave quite soon, but once they have done Serena right, they might do a Serena 2.0 quite soon. Especially when the anime is not big outside Japan. I don't even know which country likes Pokemon anime anymore. Pokemon anime is really small even in Taiwan or Hong Kong. (And it's not even because of Yo-kai Watch)

 

[Norne]

You see, media has spoiled us into thinking that conflict means character development or plot advancement, heck conflict for the sake of conflict can bring us a US hates TR if done in such way for the MC, whereas in Japan they are loved by the target audience wich are children. There doesn't has to be a constant reminder of how bad the actions of a character are, heck in a simple overreaching plot with badge quest arching with mega evolution specials having 2 groups with issues instead of 1 could cut the character advancement of both groups instead of both learning from different dynamics, wich seems to be what we could get after they cross paths.

The concept of small Pokémon shorts would be glorious and ever expandable but meh, we still got the movie shorts at least, can't argue here since I do want this to happen akin to the Litleo episode instead of small follow a character akin to miss monochrome.

You see you rather follow an OVA format character with a different focus than a semi episodic format with an overreaching plot and mid comedic relief, there is nothing wrong with that, however keep in mind that this format allowed Pokémon to not only showcase a world in better ways than a mega evolution special does and works as a long run advertisement for the franchise with low risks of plot induced suicide in wich they run out of stuff to do with a character, picture the Gundam Franchise running in alternate universes vs Pokémon follow a reboot character through the world, coherence aside Ash as a name is easier to follow, replacing characters to follow a franchise is hit and miss for long running series, again look at Gundam and precure.

Finally pandering done right is the spike in sales given how the artistic appeal is made in Japan, for Gundam seed we had fujoshi with great acquisition, for LN like SAO we have teenagers that just want a power trip self insert with different ladies to fantasize without feeling guilty, bonus point for each LN in the market for providing diverse settings albeit with constant characters being alphas in beta clothing, worst offender being Mahouka despite its world building, or even asterisk war last season.

This is pandering done right identifying a target group and selling a format to them, then pull advertising for a cash grab LN onto Anime adaptation is the common route or like symphogear Anime original into multimedia format akin to love live and If possible pull a Jun Maeda for Anime and games, although Senran Kagura does it better also valkyrie drive from the same creators as the former and SBR! from Sanrio if we follow the sales spikes on those franchises.