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TBF Mega Man, Marth, and Link are pretty easy to pick up insofar as bread and butter combo's, the truth is that they just don't stack up to the top tiers/have as high of a skill ceiling. There are matchups where specific mid and low tier characters do SIGNIFICANTLY better against a specific top or high tier character, but they're the exception, not the rule.
People overestimate the landing problem WAY too much. So what if he can't land sometimes and gets punished for it? He's still an extreme heavyweight and dies extremely late, honestly if he didn't have problems landing he'd be fucking broken because a command grab that comes out frame 8 AND a grab kill setup that's confirmed around 80% is ridiculously fucking good, not to mention he has some of the best out of shield options, his ledge coverage is godlike, and he has good aerials that autocancel. The only thing he was lacking was a combo throw, and he got it. He can now combo at all percents leading up to kill percent. That is fucking scary. Bowser is hella good right now. His recovery is also pretty underrated considering it's hard to challenge his up b and it covers quite a bit of distance. That's not to mention he has quite a few scary jab mixups; jab grab, jab down b, jab side b, and jab dtilt. Bowser was never bottom tier, and with the buffs he's gotten he's honestly pretty fucking scary, and better than donkey kong cuz bowser's setups works at way more lenient percents.
Though I quite like this post, the one thing that I disagree with is bowser being better than dk. You still have grab set ups on dk like jab 1 to grab or d-tilt, and the ability to 100% kill off a grab at 60-90 is as you know, huge. Even if they're at a % too high for a cargo throw aerial you can still b-throw or cargo d-throw stage spike or just cargo-d throw only off a grab. You have armor on up-b and b, and speaking of recovery, dk can go super deep to edgeguard because up-b has so much horizontal range. Bair is also just fantastic for edgeguarding and combos into itself, unfortunetly its probably the best landing option dk has... Id also say dk's bair>bowser's run off ledge fair for edgeguarding. Finally, even though I missed some things, Dk Will and M2k are pretty good, havent heard much from the bowser main side.
Smash is a tricky game to rank the characters by objectively. The issue with every game is that it's dominated by a few good characters, and characters start to get ranked by how well they can do against the top tiers. Characters were up and down several tiers in brawl just because of how they fared against Meta Knight or whether or not DDD and Pikachu's chain grab comboed them until 60 or something. Smash 4 is much better than most games in my opinion because there might be a definable top 10 or so characters, but most of the other characters are very balanced. It really takes a lot in smash 4 to make you a BAD character, and I'm probably underestimating bowser Jr, Link, Kirby, or DDD's potential.
I didn't focus too much on the ranking within the tiers, because most of things I would put at C rank are about on par with each other. I think that Rob or GNW are some of the better mid tier characters because of the potential they have to control the flow of a match, combo opponents, and their KO power. I think that shulk is better than olimar as a whole because his monado landing lag cancel gives him huge potential for free damage and invincibility if it can be mastered (sort of like ryu but with less benefit), he has actual damaging combos, he has a great recovery, and he has pretty scary KO and edgeguard power. He has glaring weaknesses in his frame data but unlike palutena he can make up for it. As a whole/from my experience, toon link or Dr. Mario don't have what he has. That's just an example of what I see in shulk vs what I have not seen from other characters, and in the future I'm sure tons more characters will rise up to the "C" ranking.
But there are pretty well-defined bad characters. It's not really easy to argue that Wii Fit Trainer or Duck Hunt or Marth bring anything to the table because of the sheer lack of KO power they have. A lot of smash is reading your opponent, and anybody can do that with any character. I'm sure professionals could destroy me any day of the week, but the effort you have to put in with bad characters over mid or high characters (at least how I rank them) is pretty clear to me. It really takes a LOT to be a bad character in this game, though.
I'd rank the tiers as something like
S
A
|
B
C
|
|
|
D/E (I'd call E mostly 'undiscovered' D ranks)
lol the old "tiers inflate character use" fallacy. People use what is good, and good players gravitate towards good characters.
Fact is most of the tier lists made by big players and those who are super competitive are for tournaments. So please lets see some tournament results from Mega Man and Link before you say things similar to "they have potential". You can be the best on the block with them but that only goes so far.
I don't follow Sm4sh too much and I know next to nothing about the metagame, but SoCal vs Japan crew battles were insane and Ranai was ridiculous. It felt like he was downloading Zero as their match went on. Super excited to see the top Japanese players when bracket starts.
Sad to see ESAM out at 13th, but at least he proved Nairo's Doc isn't a Pikachu counter.
I'll be rooting for Nairo and Ranai from now on. A Grand Finals without Zero in it seems unthinkable, but if that's going to happen at any tournament, it's going to be this one... we can still hope!
So sad that marss and hyuga couldn't both go to top 8, they both played amazingly and beat some really big names. Hopefully their success here means they'll be able to go to more majors in the future, because they could both easily top 8 less stacked majors.
also our government really needs to stop being cancer so leo can get his visa, seriously.
So sad that marss and hyuga couldn't both go to top 8, they both played amazingly and beat some really big names. Hopefully their success here means they'll be able to go to more majors in the future, because they could both easily top 8 less stacked majors.
also our government really needs to stop being cancer so leo can get his visa, seriously.
I mean tbh falln has been using that setup for a while now. Falln is actually the guy who usually pulls rosa tech out his ass from what i've seen lmao.
Yeah, falln isn't as good as Dabuz but he's a lab monster as well. He was the first to explain how grab release to usmash works (at SSS) and the first i've seen actually implement it as a legit kill setup tbh. he's also used a tech where luma is facing rosa, with the ledge being behind rosa, and they'd both jab, and if someone was in the middle they're trapped for a good bit.
Sorry for being late to the party, but I made a worthless tier list just for fun. Cringe away.
Just a note, tiers B-D might as well be lumped together into a single continuous tier because the divides are totally arbitrary. I just want to say sorry to all the Ganondorf fans, because the vast majority of Ganons on FG are garbage. It's like half of them don't even know that his uair exists. I'm sure he deserves to be at the very least mid-D tier, but whatever. Also, F tier is home to the Miis because they are banned in For Glory (the vast majority of my play experience). Just ignore that.
haha wasn't espn talking shit about esports because they aren't real sports?
man i just saw genesis finals and i gotta say Dabuz really deserved that. He played alot better than zero and its sad to see him lose after choking really hard on the last game
