Meanwhile Ice is one of the most desired coverage types in either mode of play. It says a lot about a type when its attacks do better on mons that don't benefit from STAB.
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Unpopular opinions
- Thread starter antemortem
- Start date
You may also want to point out Speed. The fastest Ice-types (100 and over) are as followed: Weavile (125), Cryogonal (105), & Mega Glalie (100). For a type that's suppose to be a glass canon, this is TERRIBLE. Weavile is really the only Ice-type that represents the ideal we set for Ice-types... its too bad its a Physical attack instead of a Special which is where the stronger Ice-type moves are.
At least it DOES get the best no-drawback physical ice moves unlike a few other choice Pokemon *cough*Black Kyurem*cough* You know a Pokemon's a failure when people use it's MUCH more inferior attacking stat more often than it's other humongous attacking stat.
I hate the power creep that comes with each new generation: Moves with higher BP, stats being pushed to extremes. To me it kills diversity and while I understand the reasoning, I hate that we have to divide Pokémon into OU, UU tiers etc.
I also hate that Pokémon tournaments are for the most part doubles, yet the story game runs off single battles.
I hate that some evolutionary lines seem stunted.
I hate Pikachu.
I hate that we still have unused type combos while some are far too common.
I also hate that Pokémon tournaments are for the most part doubles, yet the story game runs off single battles.
I hate that some evolutionary lines seem stunted.
I hate Pikachu.
I hate that we still have unused type combos while some are far too common.
2. The game does really need to add in more Double (and maybe even Triple) battles.
3. Any specific examples? I agree with you, though only to the extent to those who have 2 stages (and the final stage isn't as powerful as a 3rd stage of a 3 stage evolution).
4. Ooh, so many options, pick one:
Hey, whatever did I do to you?
Oh yeah? Well I ain't so fond of you either!
5. Well that's just marketing, you want to have things in future generation for customers to want. Why do you think it took so long for us to get a T-Rex Pokemon?
Tiers have nothing to do with power creep as we've been having them since Generation I. Also, tiers kinda exist in any game with characters of varying strength. Even the original Smash Bros. game has tiers, and it only has 12 characters!
The only reason we have more tiers is due to the large number of Pokémon that exist. In Generation I, there were only two full tiers (OU and UU) with Ubers being just Mewtwo and Mew and BL being what BL has always been. And in Generation I, there were only 81 Pokémon that were (at the time) fully evolved.
In Generation VI, we have over 700 Pokémon, about half of which are fully evolved, which goes up further when you counter alternate forms and Mega Evolutions. And then some NFE are actually useful thanks to Eviolite! Even without a power creep, there are going to be tiers.
Also, high BP moves aren't a problem, really. The game has gotten more and more higher BP moves, but they often have downsides that keep them mostly in check, such as low accuracy, stat drops, recoil, etc. And this has always been the case. Plus, it is just part of the game. The higher level your Pokémon are, the more powerful moves they get (going from Absorb to Mega Drain to Giga Drain, etc.).
EDIT: 1200 posts!
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I actually really like it. I'm all for stronger pokemon and moves. I'm always excited as hell at the start of a new generation because we get all these new toys to play with and it really spices things up competitively. OU does get bland after a while so meta-changing pokes/moves are welcome in my book.Skore said:
Though this is partially because OU, being the top tier, does not undergo tier shifts, and aside from the introduction of new mons or moves can only be affected by bans (or the players themselves).
Back on the "Whatever happened to the Ice-type?" discussion, it occurs to me that rock-type is in nearly the same boat.
1. Horrible defensive typing (but at least resists fire, normal, poison, and flying, two of those being noteworthy).
2. SUPER great offensive typing and supportive typing. Them sneaky pebbles.
3. Most pokemon of this type are horribly cliche slow rock walls (high def, low speed).
4. Movepool is slanted in one direction, but in this case it's physical offense. Even worse than Ice in this regard, as there are no notable special rock moves (don't even get me started on Power Gem).
So what makes being a Rock type at least a tier up from being an Ice type?
Well, for one those few resistances do give that much more wiggle room to work with, unlike Ice's one and only. For another, while we've got a lot of Roggenrola, Geodude, and Rhyhorn's, we've also got way more mold-breakers like Terrakion, Aerodactyl, Kabutops, Archeops (sensing a pattern here), and now Diancie. And even Tyranitar gives us a rock tank that can actually tank when played right. They also have a bit more movepool support with rock polish to patch their common weaknesses. And of course, them sneaky pebbles.
Goes to show you it doesn't take too much to change the perception of a type, just a little push. Still wish we had a tried and true rock-type special attacker though (Diancie and Omastar don't count, since Diamond Storm is physical and nobody puts ancient power or hidden power rock on Omastar).
1. Horrible defensive typing (but at least resists fire, normal, poison, and flying, two of those being noteworthy).
2. SUPER great offensive typing and supportive typing. Them sneaky pebbles.
3. Most pokemon of this type are horribly cliche slow rock walls (high def, low speed).
4. Movepool is slanted in one direction, but in this case it's physical offense. Even worse than Ice in this regard, as there are no notable special rock moves (don't even get me started on Power Gem).
So what makes being a Rock type at least a tier up from being an Ice type?
Well, for one those few resistances do give that much more wiggle room to work with, unlike Ice's one and only. For another, while we've got a lot of Roggenrola, Geodude, and Rhyhorn's, we've also got way more mold-breakers like Terrakion, Aerodactyl, Kabutops, Archeops (sensing a pattern here), and now Diancie. And even Tyranitar gives us a rock tank that can actually tank when played right. They also have a bit more movepool support with rock polish to patch their common weaknesses. And of course, them sneaky pebbles.
Goes to show you it doesn't take too much to change the perception of a type, just a little push. Still wish we had a tried and true rock-type special attacker though (Diancie and Omastar don't count, since Diamond Storm is physical and nobody puts ancient power or hidden power rock on Omastar).
Many Rock-types also have good offensive stats (even the bulkier ones) and they are often the stat that works best with their movepool: physical. And as you said, GF is more willing to break the mold with Rock than they are with Ice.
Also, I wouldn't say horrible defensive typing. I would say severely mixed as it has only has one more weakness than resist. Plus, many have good defensive abilities, such as Sturdy and Solid Rock, and they get a 50% Sp. Def boost from Sandstorm.
It more floats than fly and that's only when it has to be on land. As for Flying-type moves they don't really consider it when they make a Flying-type moves. They're going to have to make exceptions for what it can get. While Acrobatics and Aerial Ace doesn't make complete sense for it it's the only other Flying-type moves I can see getting that makes some sense.
If it floats rather than flies it should get levitate then rather than a full flying type. I can understand this when abilities wasn't a thing in Gen 1 but it's Gen 6 now and it really sucks to get the weaknesses of a flying type while only getting one STAB move. Mega Gyarados being a dark type sort of looks like their way of fixing it but there's only one mega spot in a team.
Gyarados's flying type was more of a balance issue. It has always been viewed as a draconic species, but Water/Dragon would've been way too overpowered in Gen I due to no weaknesses (don't forget the only dragon move in RBY is Dragon Rage, which deals a set 40 points of damage), especially for a Pokemon with stats like Gyarados. Water/Dark also wasn't doable since Dark types were non-existent back then.
A water/dragon type with Gyarados's stats and movepool would arguably still be too much even today, despite the birth of fairies. Water/Flying is still a pretty decent typing, especially backed by Intimidate post-Gen III. There's no real reason for Game Freak to change its type, even if it would make better sense from a lore perspective, especially when Mega Gyarados exists.
New unpopular opinion: While I like the concept of mega evolutions, I hope Game Freak doesn't (always) use megas as a shoe-in for regular evolutions in future generations. I still like seeing new evolutions to previous Pokemon, and regular evolutions can possibly help out some of our current Pokemon with items such as Eviolite, instead of making them completely forgotten and overshadowed by their Mega variant.
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Actually there's no evidence GF ever planned Gyarados to be Water/Dragon. I know, I remember reading that bit of trivia too but apparently it didn't have an official source. Another thing about Gyarados is that part of it is based on a koinobori, a wind shock in the shape of a carp, so the Flying-type makes sense due to that.
I hope too they keep doing normal evolutions too, some Pokemon really need them where a Mega Evolution wouldn't help them that much (they can then give the new evolution a Mega Evolution).
While it may not have a useful Flying STAB, Gyarados really doesn't need it. It has great coverage moves to back up Waterfall thanks to Earthquake, Stone Edge, Crunch, and the occasional Ice Fang. Also, while it may amplify it's Electric weakness and give it a Rock weakness, it does remove the Grass weakness and give it the always useful Ground immunity.
Long story short: I love Gyarados as a Water/Flying-type.
Long story short: I love Gyarados as a Water/Flying-type.
I have no real opinion about gyarados, I think that it's fine as is for multiple reasons stated above.
New Unpopular Opinion: Megas are necessary on pokemon that "should be given another evolution" because they're complete as creatures.
Mega evolution is stated to be a "higher state of evolution", and is meant for fully evolved creatures.
For the fans of DPP, Rowan once said "what about those that don't evolve? Are we to assume that they are complete as creatures?". To me, that states that pokemon that have finished evolving/don't evolve have already reached their "maximum potential" as lame as it sounds. Sure, fanmade evolutions can be fun, and even make sense flavourwise, but this is GF's way of saying, "this is this creature's limit, it cannot go any further". Sure, there's also the whole " new evolution added in next gen" thing, but honestly, Gen 4's evolutions seem like a one time thing, things that existed for awhile, but weren't discovered until now. Maybe GF could do it again to handle power creep, but I doubt it.
New Unpopular Opinion: Megas are necessary on pokemon that "should be given another evolution" because they're complete as creatures.
Mega evolution is stated to be a "higher state of evolution", and is meant for fully evolved creatures.
For the fans of DPP, Rowan once said "what about those that don't evolve? Are we to assume that they are complete as creatures?". To me, that states that pokemon that have finished evolving/don't evolve have already reached their "maximum potential" as lame as it sounds. Sure, fanmade evolutions can be fun, and even make sense flavourwise, but this is GF's way of saying, "this is this creature's limit, it cannot go any further". Sure, there's also the whole " new evolution added in next gen" thing, but honestly, Gen 4's evolutions seem like a one time thing, things that existed for awhile, but weren't discovered until now. Maybe GF could do it again to handle power creep, but I doubt it.
If they started removing Pokemon to change the metagame, they should start with Mewtwo.
Mewtwo is an artifact, a homage to Generation 1 that they feel the need to overbuff just to let the mythos behind it seem legitimate. It started out as the strongest because it was meant to be the last Pokemon you caught. Then power creep kicked in with the addition of special walls/Blissey and good physical attackers, and they felt the need to add Psystrike. Psystrike effectively made Mewtwo stronger than everything not resistant to it. Then, when they decided to crack all Pokemon timelines for Generation 6 via a multiverse, they felt the need to load this bastard up with TWO mega evolutions, both stronger than everything except for Mega Rayquaza, because they can't possibly let people think they forgot about this thing with the power creep.
The result is a KotH in a game where the entire idea was that there wasn't one, which they also screwed up with Arceus, but at least they haven't given Arceus any Mega stones (You could argue they gave Arceus 16, but it's still stuck with only one good move). I'm not saying I have a thing against tiers, I'm just against a specific Pokemon in the banlist.
Mewtwo is an artifact, a homage to Generation 1 that they feel the need to overbuff just to let the mythos behind it seem legitimate. It started out as the strongest because it was meant to be the last Pokemon you caught. Then power creep kicked in with the addition of special walls/Blissey and good physical attackers, and they felt the need to add Psystrike. Psystrike effectively made Mewtwo stronger than everything not resistant to it. Then, when they decided to crack all Pokemon timelines for Generation 6 via a multiverse, they felt the need to load this bastard up with TWO mega evolutions, both stronger than everything except for Mega Rayquaza, because they can't possibly let people think they forgot about this thing with the power creep.
The result is a KotH in a game where the entire idea was that there wasn't one, which they also screwed up with Arceus, but at least they haven't given Arceus any Mega stones (You could argue they gave Arceus 16, but it's still stuck with only one good move). I'm not saying I have a thing against tiers, I'm just against a specific Pokemon in the banlist.
... to change the... metagame.
When Mewtwo is banned in most formats aside from VGC which has a lot of problems right now with it's unbanning everything.
When Mewtwo is not even that great in Ubers or VGC.
If you need to start removing things from the games, Mewtwo's among the last you need to. I'm really not understanding your argument because it essentially applies to the very idea of most Legendary Pokémon being far stronger than the normal ones.
Also the entire point of Mewtwo in the original games was literally as a godly undefeatable Pokémon; analogous to a lot of RPGs where you get this stupidly strong off-the-charts weapon through a large sidequest or in the aftergame.
Why would Game Freak ever remove Pokemon? That's one of the worst-possible things they could ever do from a marketing standpoint, even if they take out a Pokemon most people (presumably) don't care for (every mon has a fan somewhere). Plus, it wouldn't make much sense from a lore standpoint.
I'm not sure if I want to imagine the hell that would be unleashed on the internet if Mewtwo suddenly was removed from the franchise....*shudders*
I'm not sure if I want to imagine the hell that would be unleashed on the internet if Mewtwo suddenly was removed from the franchise....*shudders*
Not to mention that without the Mega Stones the mascot Legendaries are just as powerful as Mewtwo with a BST of 680 (except for Groudon & Kyogre (670) and Kyurem (660 and 700)). And even with Mega Stones it now has competition from the Primals (though they only have 770 BST they hit just as hard, have additional bulk, and an Ability that really helps them) and Mega Rayquaza (who's WAY more broken with it not needing to hold a Mega Stone, offensive presence on both side of the spectrum, and an Ability that removes its Flying-type weaknesses). And no doubt future games will introduce more of each so Mewtwo's time in the spotlight is limited (if not having been usurped by Rayquaza).
If they decide to remove Pokemon it would probably be because they decided to reboot the franchise. And even if they do they won't remove Mewtwo because its popular.
Jynx! Thematically she was tied to Electabuzz and Magmar in Johto via the eggs you got from day care.
Then we get to Gen 4 and she didn't get an evolution, they gave it to the Rhydon line :(
Then there are certainly a few lines that stop short of being as good as others because they're 2 stage evolutions, and the aforementioned Power Creep has left previously decent pokemon behind. Think Arcanine, or Arbok as examples of this.
Then there are the families that never get really good. Compare Ariados to Volcarona, or Mantine to Gyarados. One is a 2 stage evo line done well, the other isn't. And even a Mega with +100 BST likely won't bring the boys to the yard.
1) Just no.
2) Will people stop saying that they should remove Pokémon from the game. That's not just unpopular, but it would anger a huge supermajority of fans.
I like those monkeys...