Playoffs Smogon Grand Slam IV - Play-offs - No Winner

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Hikari said:
There were like 50 users posting "evidence" (logs, creepy facebook stalking, etc) of style being an alt and nothing was done until the TD did some research with videos, IPs and shit. Mazar lost his trophy because someone showed you logs without context and you think the logs written in a language yo don't natively speak are accurate.

I'm not mazar's biggest fan (eg: 1, 2) but the lack of concrete evidence and double standards don't sit well with me. You are not supposed to believe what the people involved tell you, that's kinda really important, you are supposed to compile evidence and then decide how to proceed, which is what the TDs did to deal with Style's situation.

I thought there was some actual evidence somewhere, mostly because the accused people weren't even trying to defend themselves, and not just the meaningless skype logs cased got from a german that doesn't like Mazar.
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Is this just going to go unanswered? I don't see how it would hurt the TDs to post the extent of their evidence, given that I'm sure it's more convincing than what was highlighted in this thread prior.
 
Hikari said:
There were like 50 users posting "evidence" (logs, creepy facebook stalking, etc) of style being an alt and nothing was done until the TD did some research with videos, IPs and shit. Mazar lost his trophy because someone showed you logs without context and you think the logs written in a language yo don't natively speak are accurate.

I'm not mazar's biggest fan (eg: 1, 2) but the lack of concrete evidence and double standards don't sit well with me. You are not supposed to believe what the people involved tell you, that's kinda really important, you are supposed to compile evidence and then decide how to proceed, which is what the TDs did to deal with Style's situation.

I thought there was some actual evidence somewhere, mostly because the accused people weren't even trying to defend themselves, and not just the meaningless skype logs cased got from a german that doesn't like Mazar.
Click to expand...

Style is not comparable because that was a case of widespread cheating and corruption that was orchestrated by an admin of the site. We had to go through Senior Staff and present a case where even 99.9% wasn't good enough. Not all TDs felt that such lengths were necessary but it was something that we had little control over. Despite this we were able to delay the final and get Style removed before she could play so much as a single game after the evidence was provided, so to say that "nothing was done" seems a little unfair. Sure, some people were sceptical before the final but there was nothing close to real evidence, and at that time Bloo was able to play a part in any further examination due to not being a major suspect until much later.

Jayde said:
Is this just going to go unanswered? I don't see how it would hurt the TDs to post the extent of their evidence, given that I'm sure it's more convincing than what was highlighted in this thread prior.
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I understand the concern about not publicising all the information we have but it's not always wise to do so. We shared some of the evidence (although Someone else was going to do it anyway) to show that there was reasoning behind the action but complete transparency can sometimes come at a cost.

Forging evidence to refute existing evidence is easily done (funnily enough we experienced this a lot with Style/Bloo) so we have to be careful with what we show and who we show it to. Forcing the accused to make their case before/without seeing all the evidence allows us to spot inconsistencies and irregularities much more easily.

There's also the role of keeping the anonymity of the informants. A lot of people are vilified for reporting others (even if they aren't friends with the cheater) so giving people the option to do so without being named is something that we can do to both protect them and encourage the sharing of information. I personally believe that between these two reasons there's enough to justify not publicising every bit of information that we possess.

What I will say is that the evidence, while maybe not 100% like what we had with Style, does heavily suggest that ghosting (involving Mazar) took place throughout Grand Slam. More so than the standard "Soge says he ghosted a user" or "this user says they were receiving calcs in a call". This was deemed enough to take action as it obviously should be. That it hasn't always happened in the past has nothing to do with bias (like what some want to claim) and is more to do with the fact that not all TDs think alike and that certain previous TDs were extremely lenient and didn't enforce the rules unless essentially forced to do so. This is obviously an issue as it makes clarity and consistency somewhat difficult to attain but it is something that we are hoping to fix very soon (actually soon and not "Smogon soon").
 
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