UK and the EU referendum

[JES]

And I would say an inability to respect culture, and be sensitive to history and context, is an inability to respect humanity.

I'd say that an inability to respect other cultures, and at least try to be sensitive to it's history is an inability to respect sentience and intelligence. We're going to one day run into another intelligence. I fear that so long as there are a huge amount of those who only care about those they can identify with, that we won't be ready, and we won't be mature enough as a species.

You don't necessarily need to like another's beliefs. That's fine, we're all different. But so long as they don't infringe on your personal freedoms, safety, and individuality, a laissez faire approach is probably the best. That's pretty much how I am with religion.

Nationalism is dangerous, because it seems to have a tendency to just judge and even stoke paranoia.

but as usual facts don't matter when the people get to vote, which is the reason why direct democracy is a shit.

Direct democracy is shit when the people are uninformed, uneducated, and don't have a tendency to do the necessary research and critical thinking.

 

[Cresselia~~]

We now have data that most people who voted "leave" was indeed due to anti-immigrant behavior.
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/24/12025036/brexit-how-leave-european-union-uk-collapse

An Ipsos MORI poll, pre-vote, found that 52 percent of Leave supporters said immigration was "very important" to their decision on how to vote in the referendum, while only 14 percent of "Remain" voters said the same. Meanwhile, 41 percent of Remain voters said the economy was "very important," while only 18 percent of Leave voters felt the same way.

Basically bunch of scums on benefits yet somehow think that because they are "British" and "white", they deserve more attention than immigrants.
In reality, the tax payers would rather help Syrian refugees than them.
Those scums don't care shit about economy anyway.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

We now have data that most people who voted "leave" was indeed due to anti-immigrant behavior.
http://www.vox.com/2016/6/24/12025036/brexit-how-leave-european-union-uk-collapse



Basically bunch of scums on benefits yet somehow think that because they are "British" and "white", they deserve more attention than immigrants.
In reality, the tax payers would rather help Syrian refugees than them.
Those scums don't care shit about economy anyway.

Why non-tax payers are allowed to vote has always baffled me.
How is everyone equally important anyway?

This is the most disgustingly biased post I've ever seen from you. For shame.


Sweet link to Soros funded elitist propaganda machine.

 

[Flamedood]

Basically bunch of scums on benefits yet somehow think that because they are "British" and "white", they deserve more attention than immigrants.

Why non-tax payers are allowed to vote has always baffled me.
How is everyone equally important anyway?

Bruh.

 

[Cresselia~~]

This is the most disgustingly biased post I've ever seen from you. For shame.


Sweet link to Soros funded elitist propaganda machine.

If you can debunk it then you can help me learn too. Actually.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

If you can debunk it then you can help me learn too. Actually.

Don't care to argue or attempt to convince you of anything. Do your research, the proof is in the pudding.


**edit: Your post still remains disgustingly biased.

 

[Cresselia~~]

Don't care to argue or attempt to convince you of anything. Do your research, the proof is in the pudding.


**edit: Your post still remains disgustingly biased.

Most people who wanted everyone to have a vote did not provide any explanation or reasoning.
"Voting is for everyone" isn't really an explanation.

 

[Flamedood]

Most people who wanted everyone to have a vote did not provide any explanation or reasoning.
"Voting is for everyone" isn't really an explanation.

I think it's called "democracy"

 

[BenTheDemon]

Well, my country fucked up by choosing Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders.
At least now I feel that the US isn't the only country to make major fuckups.
But in all seriousness, I am neither British nor European, so I can't say that the decision impacts me much. But from what I've heard, it was supposedly a bunch of older people voting out of Xenophobia. Well, congrats, UK. You just destroyed years of progress on trade and travel because you were afraid of a few refugees.

I sincerely hope the world isn't headed into another Right-Wing era when we still have some progress to make.

EDIT: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/20-reasons-you-should-vote-to-leave-the-european-union/

I read this article, and I have to say that I had to look again to see if it was satire. I'm still not sure, but a lot of those arguments sound like Trump logic.

Environmental regulations are a GOOD thing, because our planet is in trouble. And foreign aid to Brussels might cost the UK a bit, but it's also a good thing, because what happens when the UK gets attacked (as ISIS said they plan to as the UK made itself weaker)? They'd love the foreign aid!
I seriously cannot fathom why the UK voted to get leave such a good union over some very reasonable taxes, regulations, and immigration.
Also, personal opinion, but shouldn't a change this major require a 2/3 majority vote rather than a simple majority vote?

 

[Cresselia~~]

Well, my country fucked up by choosing Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders.
At least now I feel that the US isn't the only country to make major fuckups.
But in all seriousness, I am neither British nor European, so I can't say that the decision impacts me much. But from what I've heard, it was supposedly a bunch of older people voting out of Xenophobia. Well, congrats, UK. You just destroyed years of progress on trade and travel because you were afraid of a few refugees.

I sincerely hope the world isn't headed into another Right-Wing era when we still have some progress to make.

EDIT: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/20-reasons-you-should-vote-to-leave-the-european-union/

I read this article, and I have to say that I had to look again to see if it was satire. I'm still not sure, but a lot of those arguments sound like Trump logic.

Environmental regulations are a GOOD thing, because our planet is in trouble. And foreign aid to Brussels might cost the UK a bit, but it's also a good thing, because what happens when the UK gets attacked (as ISIS said they plan to as the UK made itself weaker)? They'd love the foreign aid!
I seriously cannot fathom why the UK voted to get leave such a good union over some very reasonable taxes, regulations, and immigration.
Also, personal opinion, but shouldn't a change this major require a 2/3 majority vote rather than a simple majority vote?

Since 52% people who voted "leave" was due to immigrants/ refugees, I'd say the voters are unhappy that Germany forced the UK to take in the Syrian refugees. I mean, I think this was the main reason why people were unhappy towards the EU.
Before the Syrian refugees incident, anti-immigrant comments do not run as rampant on facebook/ discussion forums, etc.
Sure, there were lots of discrimination against muslims, but not as obvious.
UKIP had some followers, but they were majorly being laughed at.

When the UK was forced to take Syrian refugees, there was a sharp increase , rather, an uproar, of anti-immigrant views.
UKIP suddenly gained a lot of followers.

I think the incident also shows how UK can be forced by another country to do something that UK doesn't want to do.

Personally, I also think that anti-immigrant views from this people may be consolidated due to how Trump is widely supported in USA.
Generally, I find out that anti-colored people have been louder and more willing to express their racism and have less shame.
-------------------

Thanks for the Telegraph link, BenTheDemon.
Now I think it actually is not as bad as I thought, especially with number 1.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Follow the money, the proof is in the pudding. Soros was one of the major driving forces behind the immigration, now media outlets funded by that same man are bashing the people who voted leave. Create the problem then provide the solution. History repeats itself. Don't blame the voters who only want freedom. Blame the crooked politicians who created the entire mess. To say that voters are stupid for trying to change an unsatisfactory situation is full retard. Someone is poised to make a very large profit from all of this; but what really matters is that those dumb Europeans fucked up-which I know because the media told me. The same media that is owned by a LITERAL handful of corporations. Some of you kids/young adults are so damned indoctrinated educated that it's really scary.

 

[eden]

Since 52% people who voted "leave" was due to immigrants/ refugees, I'd say the voters are unhappy that Germany forced the UK to take in the Syrian refugees. I mean, I think this was the main reason why people were unhappy towards the EU.
Before the Syrian refugees incident, anti-immigrant comments do not run as rampant on facebook/ discussion forums, etc.
Sure, there were lots of discrimination against muslims, but not as obvious.
UKIP had some followers, but they were majorly being laughed at.

When the UK was forced to take Syrian refugees, there was a sharp increase , rather, an uproar, of anti-immigrant views.
UKIP suddenly gained a lot of followers.

I think the incident also shows how UK can be forced by another country to do something that UK doesn't want to do.

Personally, I also think that anti-immigrant views from this people may be consolidated due to how Trump is widely supported in USA.
Generally, I find out that anti-colored people have been louder and more willing to express their racism and have less shame.

You have no idea how true this is. Even in college you can feel that people with more fringe views such as neo-nazis, white supremacists are more open to expressing their views whether morally wrong or not. Just recently even in a place like Massachusetts generally regarded to be more liberal, there was an incident where swastikas were drawn prominently in bathrooms where I go; there have also been cases where foreign kids are heckled, and its discomforting to hear these people be upset. In the UK I'm sure, just like in the US; there will definitely be a portion of people who will try to twist everything politically, by spreading fear amongst the people so its no surpise. I'm not British myself, but from what I've gathered from my friends(mostly of the younger generation obviously) this wasn't exactly the will of the people; the fact that petitions are making the rounds for a redo(and that those petitions have a sizable number of signatures) kind of backs up the fact that although they may have left the EU; if not a majority, a good deal of Brits don't like the decision. For what its worth, regardless of anything else Britain is probably one of the more inclusive/racially diverse countries, and has succeeded in making even the people of foreign stock to integrate themselves into society, unlike US at the moment. Also Xenophobia is sadly rampant, in today's political landscape. Countries are always looking for something to blame, like refugees or global economy, instead of being willing to introspect and look at what is going wrong with governance. The political climate in the US, is really reflective of this right now; hopefully this doesn't end up with heavy trade embargos and the such being implemented.

 

[Aladyyn]

Well, my country fucked up by choosing Hillary Clinton over Bernie Sanders.
At least now I feel that the US isn't the only country to make major fuckups.
But in all seriousness, I am neither British nor European, so I can't say that the decision impacts me much. But from what I've heard, it was supposedly a bunch of older people voting out of Xenophobia. Well, congrats, UK. You just destroyed years of progress on trade and travel because you were afraid of a few refugees.

I sincerely hope the world isn't headed into another Right-Wing era when we still have some progress to make.

EDIT: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/22/20-reasons-you-should-vote-to-leave-the-european-union/

I read this article, and I have to say that I had to look again to see if it was satire. I'm still not sure, but a lot of those arguments sound like Trump logic.

Environmental regulations are a GOOD thing, because our planet is in trouble. And foreign aid to Brussels might cost the UK a bit, but it's also a good thing, because what happens when the UK gets attacked (as ISIS said they plan to as the UK made itself weaker)? They'd love the foreign aid!
I seriously cannot fathom why the UK voted to get leave such a good union over some very reasonable taxes, regulations, and immigration.
Also, personal opinion, but shouldn't a change this major require a 2/3 majority vote rather than a simple majority vote?

What happens when UK gets attacked? The same thing that would have always happened, because NATO is a thing.

"Such a good union" Jesus Christ how can anyone say that. EU today is not the same institution my country joined 12 years ago and every country should have the right to leave (obviously impossible).

It really sucks that valid concerns get shot down in lieu of "omfg people that don't like EU are dumb and racist". Eurofederalists should get a reality check but who am I kidding.

 

[Grey Knight]

nice , i can finally buy broken laptop parts through uk sellers on ebay again , fuk pound

 

[destinyunknown]

you know how statistics works, right? you don't need to poll significant portion of entire population to get meaningful results, you gotta be kidding...

Dunno about the UK, but polls on vote intention in Spain have been really off the mark in recent years because people either lie when surveyed, or just change their opinion in the matter of a day.

I have nothing against the sample size though, I know how that works, but I definitely do have an issue with the low amount of information given by this kind of surveys.

 

[JALMONT]

Having not really followed the brexit debate so far (I had no idea leaving the EU was even on the table for the member countries), I'm curious as to the restrictions that the EU places of its member countries - surely it is not just "xenophobia" that has led to this decision and that there must be something about EU membership that hurts Britain enough to want to leave. Ultimately then, I'm not sure what to think. I think it's clear that "remain" hurts britain in the short run, but the effect in the long run is unknown. While I'm not sure what was the "right" decision (I thought remain was better personally but I am quite uninformed on the topic), I'm personally interested in learning more about what led the majority to gravitate towards leave and why.

You have no idea how true this is. Even in college you can feel that people with more fringe views such as neo-nazis, white supremacists are more open to expressing their views whether morally wrong or not. Just recently even in a place like Massachusetts generally regarded to be more liberal, there was an incident where swastikas were drawn prominently in bathrooms where I go; there have also been cases where foreign kids are heckled, and its discomforting to hear these people be upset. In the UK I'm sure, just like in the US; there will definitely be a portion of people who will try to twist everything politically, by spreading fear amongst the people so its no surpise. I'm not British myself, but from what I've gathered from my friends(mostly of the younger generation obviously) this wasn't exactly the will of the people; the fact that petitions are making the rounds for a redo(and that those petitions have a sizable number of signatures) kind of backs up the fact that although they may have left the EU; if not a majority, a good deal of Brits don't like the decision. For what its worth, regardless of anything else Britain is probably one of the more inclusive/racially diverse countries, and has succeeded in making even the people of foreign stock to integrate themselves into society, unlike US at the moment. Also Xenophobia is sadly rampant, in today's political landscape. Countries are always looking for something to blame, like refugees or global economy, instead of being willing to introspect and look at what is going wrong with governance. The political climate in the US, is really reflective of this right now; hopefully this doesn't end up with heavy trade embargos and the such being implemented.

That's crazy, I've had almost the opposite college experience where the majority liberal population (or the "regressive left," a term I like) tends to want to silence any and all opinions that doesn't fit the narrative that they want to push. At my school there's plenty of incidents regarding student protests that disrupt events and prevent guest speakers from talking. What's scary is that such behavior is becoming less of a "fringe viewpoint" whereas I think white supremacy is becoming more of a fringe viewpoint (in my opinion). I guess it goes to show that extremes at either end of the spectrum aren't helpful, but that's it's important to be able to listen to all sides and critically think about them.

Are there a lot more old people than young in Britain? How could it not be the will of the people if the vote was put forward to the entire nation? I'm genuinely curious how otherwise it couldn't have been the "will of the people?"

In general, I don't understand why it's okay to call people who don't want open borders "xenophobic"? I mean, I guess I do understand, in that it's much easier to degrade and insult the opposition then discuss the topic, but I feel that some level of immigration control is important for countries (look at places like Japan). Perhaps I am mistaken somewhere, but I don't see why it's wrong to want some level of control over who enters your country permanently. It's not xenophobic to want to prevent people who have no interest in assimilating to your country from entering in my opinion.

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

I voted Out because we are an island and it is high time we started acting like one. Both sides had valid points though, and all there is to do now is wait and see.

 

[eden]

That's the thing though, coming from a liberal area you'd expect stuff like that not to happen; goes to show that there's all kinds I guess

 

[Pyritie]

I sincerely hope the world isn't headed into another Right-Wing era when we still have some progress to make.

Right and left are two sides of the same coin. There is no "good" and "evil" side. When you start heading too far in one direction, you swing back to the other side. This has been the case for the past hundreds if not thousands of years.

 

[Layell]

I voted Out because we are an island and it is high time we started acting like one. Both sides had valid points though, and all there is to do now is wait and see.

Considering Britain's expansive colonial history it's rather disingenuous to decide "we're an island now, other people don't matter". I can't help but feel a lot of the leave "arguments" were very similar to those made by former British colonies.

 

[Rowan]

I voted Out because we are an island and it is high time we started acting like one. Both sides had valid points though, and all there is to do now is wait and see.

genuinely don't know if this is a joke?

 

[ChrystalFalchion]

genuinely don't know if this is a joke?

No it wasn't a joke, I believe that as an island nation we should make our own rules and decisions. I am aware of our colonial past, but the empire's been gone for over half a century. I think the time has come to focus on our own problems.

 

[sunny004]

The UK referendum is a scary reminder that in the US, a Trump presidency is an all too possible option.
Sure, polling shows that Hillary's ahead (btw Sanders supporters that won't vote for her are honestly kinda stupid because the only other option is much much worse lol), but pre-vote the remain side was shown to have been leading in the polls. Not to mention the fact that the two main arguments for a Brexit are immigration (Great wall of Trump sound familiar?) and anti-Brussels bureaucracy (which is basically all conservatives in the US).

Also did anyone notice that the vast majority of leave voters were seniors who would only be affected by the decision for another 20-30 years max before they croaked?

 

[Cresselia~~]

The UK referendum is a scary reminder that in the US, a Trump presidency is an all too possible option.
Sure, polling shows that Hillary's ahead (btw Sanders supporters that won't vote for her are honestly kinda stupid because the only other option is much much worse lol), but pre-vote the remain side was shown to have been leading in the polls. Not to mention the fact that the two main arguments for a Brexit are immigration (Great wall of Trump sound familiar?) and anti-Brussels bureaucracy (which is basically all conservatives in the US).

Also did anyone notice that the vast majority of leave voters were seniors who would only be affected by the decision for another 20-30 years max before they croaked?

I legitimately think that Trump will have a high chance. Especially how Sanders supporters actually do not like Hillary.
Internet polls do not really show accurate results, because people who vote on the internet are usually the younger generation.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Good news everyone. Germany, USA, and Canada have already expressed interest in special trade deals.



I will be celebrating this small triumph for freedom with a 6-pack of Newcastle Brown Ale and I encourage all of you to chip in as well. What better way to congratulate than by sending some money Britain's way, cheers.


https://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2016/06/24/president-obama-uk-decision-leave-european-union
http://www.nytimes.com/live/eu-referendum/guarded-reaction-in-canada/


Its so amusing when politicians backtrack on their words the very next day.