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If you watch the Japanese trailer uploaded yesterday, you'll see that Mega Kangaskhan's 2nd hit does surprisingly less damage and Serebii confirmed that it got nerfed by 25%
Well, the change to 25% was never confirmed. People just eyeballed the HP bar and said that the second hit looked like 25% of the first hit. We won't know the exact number until we get data from the demo or games since high/low rolls could've been factors. But whatever it is, Parental Bond definitely got some sort of nerf, which again shows that Pokemon is paying more attention to the VGC scene this generation than before. It gives us some hope for a good format.
On another piece of new information, what do you guys think of Silvally, the mini-Arceus clone? One thing that immediately comes to mind is that we can't discern Silvally's type from team preview. I can imagine that leading to a lot of messy game ones. Some people have also brought up concern for colorblind people, since the only indicator for Silvally's type is the color of its hair (and even then, a lot of the colors are pretty similar). Silvally does give us the new option to potentially patch up holes in our teams by slapping it on with the necessary type-item (assuming it becomes viable, which it probably will be since it's meant to be just a weaker Arceus).
(FYI people, it's been confirmed that Silvally changes types via "memory" items that work the same way as Arceus's plate items.)
On another piece of new information, what do you guys think of Silvally, the mini-Arceus clone? One thing that immediately comes to mind is that we can't discern Silvally's type from team preview. I can imagine that leading to a lot of messy game ones. Some people have also brought up concern for colorblind people, since the only indicator for Silvally's type is the color of its hair (and even then, a lot of the colors are pretty similar). Silvally does give us the new option to potentially patch up holes in our teams by slapping it on with the necessary type-item (assuming it becomes viable, which it probably will be since it's meant to be just a weaker Arceus).
Silvally will likely have base 100 stats across the board (or even more fun give it base 105), and since it's supposed to rival Arceus, it'll definitely get the same moves that Arceus can learn meaning that this will be the Arceus that can be used in OU but due to it potentially having limitless sets for each typing and definitely splashable playstyle, Silvally may not stay in OU for very long as it has the possibility of getting quickbanned but we'll see if Silvally is even in the demo to determine its stats or until the game comes out
- Hope team preview allows us to find out what type of Silvally we're facing, unlike Arceus. Otherwise, bo1 events may come down to Silvally + Z-Moves gimmicks. Btw, it may or may not be the case that Silvally is unable to use Z-moves at all, depending on what hold item it is required for Silvally to change types. If it is Z-Crystals, well...
- One of the things that makes Arceus so threatening is the moveset it gets. Access to all kind of moves, together with its 120 stats across the board is what makes Arceus so dangerous. If Silvally gets a shallow moveset I don't think it'll become as threatening as it should. Also, I don't think its base stats will be too crazy, while I do believe they will be good, maybe it'll be frailer/weaker on one kind of offense than the expected.
- Hope team preview allows us to find out what type of Silvally we're facing, unlike Arceus. Otherwise, bo1 events may come down to Silvally + Z-Moves gimmicks. Btw, it may or may not be the case that Silvally is unable to use Z-moves at all, depending on what hold item it is required for Silvally to change types. If it is Z-Crystals, well...
- One of the things that makes Arceus so threatening is the moveset it gets. Access to all kind of moves, together with its 120 stats across the board is what makes Arceus so dangerous. If Silvally gets a shallow moveset I don't think it'll become as threatening as it should. Also, I don't think its base stats will be too crazy, while I do believe they will be good, maybe it'll be frailer/weaker on one kind of offense than the expected.
I am so excited for the VGC 2017 season. Since it looks like 2017 will have a lower power level than 2015 and 2016 since Megas are banned, I definitely think that it will bring potential for a lot more metagame diversity, especially since GF is actually starting to care about competitive play.
I think my first team will be rain-based with Electric Terrain - Politoed/Ludicolo and Tapu Koko/Raichu-A complement each other well, and then I can dedicate the last two slots to techs against threats (most notably other weathers and terrains).
Regarding Minimize stall: I honestly can't see it being much of an issue beyond Winter Regionals. It's like Smeargle - it wasn't common enough to warrant a dedicated answer in 2014 and 2015, but then when it became standard in 2016, people started running Crobat and Safeguard. I think we'll see a similar story with Minimize, where Taunt and Haze will see a rise in usage to combat it.
I think my first team will be rain-based with Electric Terrain - Politoed/Ludicolo and Tapu Koko/Raichu-A complement each other well, and then I can dedicate the last two slots to techs against threats (most notably other weathers and terrains).
This metagame isn't going to be out of centralization. In fact, I believe this is going to be one of the most overcentralized metagames in the VGC history. All we have for diversity are the Alolan Pokemon, as some of the Pokemon of past years will reign again - just they won't be as unbeatable. Z-Moves will spice up the metagame, but with the huge power difference between the foreign Pokemon in the Alolan dex, room for innovation will be small.
This metagame isn't going to be out of centralization. In fact, I believe this is going to be one of the most overcentralized metagames in the VGC history. All we have for diversity are the Alolan Pokemon, as some of the Pokemon of past years will reign again - just they won't be as unbeatable. Z-Moves will spice up the metagame, but with the huge power difference between the foreign Pokemon in the Alolan dex, room for innovation will be small.
While we can't know anything for sure, I disagree with this logic. I see where you're coming from: a lot of the old Pokemon in the national dex are our competitive staples, that the metagame has centralized around in the past. But the lack of Megas and introduction of Z moves are two very disruptive forces. Mega Pokemon defined the 2014 and 2015 formats, and played a huge role in 2016. The Gem items played a major role in 2013 (often referred to as a very decentralized meta), and while we can't really know the impact of Z moves yet, its possible that they could have a similar impact. In addition to these two huge changes, we have to consider how all the new Pokemon, moves, and abilities interact with the old Pokemon. There are a good deal of moves and abilities that seem designed to switch up the competitive game. It'll be interesting to see what the metagame will centralize around, and how centralized it will be.
From the new trailer, the Tapu pokemon all have 172 hp at lvl 60 so this gives them a highest possible HP stat of 85 (assuming no IVs or EVs which is normally the case in these trailers).
We also saw Tapu Bulu use horn leech in the english trailer and use wood hammer in the Japanese trailer. Wood Hammer did around 75-80% damage on a Tauros at level 58 and the Tapu was hit with 39 recoil.
The recoil for this move is 1/3 of the damage so around 117 damage was inflicted (depending on how it was rounded) which would give it an attack stat range of 80 to 97 (taking into account the grassy terrain boost).
It also hit Tauros first which would mean a speed stat of over 110 (unless it was just cleverly edited).
Are we allowed to discuss about the datamine/team building for Sun and Moon here yet? Because I would like to get started on VGC this year, and i'm not sure if spoilers are/aren't allowed.
Are we allowed to discuss about the datamine/team building for Sun and Moon here yet? Because I would like to get started on VGC this year, and i'm not sure if spoilers are/aren't allowed.
Oranguru @ Sitrus Berry / Mental Herb
Ability: Telepathy / Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Psychic
- Instruct
- Trick Room
- Protect / Foul Play
Note:
- You need Mental Herb for Taunt user
- I'd rather go for Inner Focus for the set because Fake Out can still hurt you if you don't open with Tapu Lele and with Mental Herb, you cannot be Fake Outed or Taunted
- Foul Play is good if you want to hurt high attack Pokemon with low defense
- Your worst enemy here is Salazzle if you use your last set because Salazzle got Taunt and Fake Out
Wishiwashi @ Sitrus Berry / Choice Band
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def or 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- U-turn / Protect / Sleep talk
Note:
- I'd rather go with Sitrus berry because with only 152 total HP, it only heal 9.5 HP per turn with Leftover while Sitrus Berry will heal 38 HP in one turn
- Sitrus Berry will activate with that EV distribution when the enemy used Hyper Fang or Nature's Madness
- With that SpA Ice Beam it can already OHKO Salamence or Garchomp
- Use U-turn under Trick Room only!
- Choice Band is.... crazy with this Pokemon
- Sleep Talk because Shiinotic is faster than you and can Spore you
Marowak-A @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Will-O-Wisp / Bone Rush / Earthquake
- Protect
Note:
- You really need Protect for this Pokemon because it's not that bulky
- Bone Rush to kill annoying Focus Sashed Pokemon
For the last 3 Pokemon, I don't know about Drampa, Buzzlord and Tapu Lele.
Tapu Lele can work in this team because you need at least 1 or 2 Pokemon with high speed when outside Trick Room. For Buzzlord, I really want to change him to other Pokemon like Hariyama for that Fake Out Support. Drampa? I still need to research this Pokemon for Trick Room team and if you don't want to use Drampa, you can use Guzzlord with this set:
Guzzlord @ Dragon Z-Crystal / Poison Z-Crystal
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Ivs: 0 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect
note:
- Even with that EVs spread, Beast still always boost its SpA
- Z-Move for High damage to OHKO opponent's Pokemon and get that sweet Beast Boost
Edit:
About Drampa, I think the best set for him is this set:
Drampa @ Dragon Z-Crystal / Fire Z-Crystal / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 244 HP / 180 Def / 84 SpA
Ivs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Protect
Note:
- First, I always fear Garchomp so, the EVs spread will survive Garchomp Life Orb Dragon Claw while OHKO it with Draco Meteor
- Survive Salamence Draco Meteor
- Sitrus Berry have a synergy with Berserk that if you healed more than 50% of your HP, you can activate Berserk again
Oranguru @ Sitrus Berry / Mental Herb
Ability: Telepathy / Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Psychic
- Instruct
- Trick Room
- Protect / Foul Play
Note:
- You need Mental Herb for Taunt user
- I'd rather go for Inner Focus for the set because Fake Out can still hurt you if you don't open with Tapu Lele and with Mental Herb, you cannot be Fake Outed or Taunted
- Foul Play is good if you want to hurt high attack Pokemon with low defense
- Your worst enemy here is Salazzle if you use your last set because Salazzle got Taunt and Fake Out
Wishiwashi @ Sitrus Berry / Choice Band
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def or 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- U-turn / Protect / Sleep talk
Note:
- I'd rather go with Sitrus berry because with only 152 total HP, it only heal 9.5 HP per turn with Leftover while Sitrus Berry will heal 38 HP in one turn
- Sitrus Berry will activate with that EV distribution when the enemy used Hyper Fang or Nature's Madness
- With that SpA Ice Beam it can already OHKO Salamence or Garchomp
- Use U-turn under Trick Room only!
- Choice Band is.... crazy with this Pokemon
- Sleep Talk because Shiinotic is faster than you and can Spore you
Marowak-A @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Will-O-Wisp / Bone Rush / Earthquake
- Protect
Note:
- You really need Protect for this Pokemon because it's not that bulky
- Bone Rush to kill annoying Focus Sashed Pokemon
For the last 3 Pokemon, I don't know about Drampa, Buzzlord and Tapu Lele.
Tapu Lele can work in this team because you need at least 1 or 2 Pokemon with high speed when outside Trick Room. For Buzzlord, I really want to change him to other Pokemon like Hariyama for that Fake Out Support. Drampa? I still need to research this Pokemon for Trick Room team and if you don't want to use Drampa, you can use Guzzlord with this set:
Guzzlord @ Dragon Z-Crystal / Poison Z-Crystal
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Ivs: 0 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect
note:
- Even with that EVs spread, Beast still always boost its SpA
- Z-Move for High damage to OHKO opponent's Pokemon and get that sweet Beast Boost
Edit:
About Drampa, I think the best set for him is this set:
Drampa @ Dragon Z-Crystal / Fire Z-Crystal / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 244 HP / 180 Def / 84 SpA
Ivs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Protect
Note:
- First, I always fear Garchomp so, the EVs spread will survive Garchomp Life Orb Dragon Claw while OHKO it with Draco Meteor
- Survive Salamence Draco Meteor
- Sitrus Berry have a synergy with Berserk that if you healed more than 50% of your HP, you can activate Berserk again
I like that opening. It still not solid because you can still got taunted by Salazzle.
Tried to fixed that for you
Oranguru @ Sitrus Berry / Mental Herb
Ability: Telepathy / Inner Focus
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Def / 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Psychic
- Instruct
- Trick Room
- Protect / Foul Play
Note:
- You need Mental Herb for Taunt user
- I'd rather go for Inner Focus for the set because Fake Out can still hurt you if you don't open with Tapu Lele and with Mental Herb, you cannot be Fake Outed or Taunted
- Foul Play is good if you want to hurt high attack Pokemon with low defense
- Your worst enemy here is Salazzle if you use your last set because Salazzle got Taunt and Fake Out
Wishiwashi @ Sitrus Berry / Choice Band
Ability: Schooling
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def or 4 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Beam
- U-turn / Protect / Sleep talk
Note:
- I'd rather go with Sitrus berry because with only 152 total HP, it only heal 9.5 HP per turn with Leftover while Sitrus Berry will heal 38 HP in one turn
- Sitrus Berry will activate with that EV distribution when the enemy used Hyper Fang or Nature's Madness
- With that SpA Ice Beam it can already OHKO Salamence or Garchomp
- Use U-turn under Trick Room only!
- Choice Band is.... crazy with this Pokemon
- Sleep Talk because Shiinotic is faster than you and can Spore you
Marowak-A @ Thick Club
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 Hp / 252 Atk / 4 Def
IVs: 0 Spe
Brave Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Shadow Bone
- Will-O-Wisp / Bone Rush / Earthquake
- Protect
Note:
- You really need Protect for this Pokemon because it's not that bulky
- Bone Rush to kill annoying Focus Sashed Pokemon
For the last 3 Pokemon, I don't know about Drampa, Buzzlord and Tapu Lele.
Tapu Lele can work in this team because you need at least 1 or 2 Pokemon with high speed when outside Trick Room. For Buzzlord, I really want to change him to other Pokemon like Hariyama for that Fake Out Support. Drampa? I still need to research this Pokemon for Trick Room team and if you don't want to use Drampa, you can use Guzzlord with this set:
Guzzlord @ Dragon Z-Crystal / Poison Z-Crystal
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Ivs: 0 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dark Pulse
- Sludge Bomb
- Protect
note:
- Even with that EVs spread, Beast still always boost its SpA
- Z-Move for High damage to OHKO opponent's Pokemon and get that sweet Beast Boost
Edit:
About Drampa, I think the best set for him is this set:
Drampa @ Dragon Z-Crystal / Fire Z-Crystal / Sitrus Berry
Ability: Berserk
EVs: 244 HP / 180 Def / 84 SpA
Ivs: 0 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Protect
Note:
- First, I always fear Garchomp so, the EVs spread will survive Garchomp Life Orb Dragon Claw while OHKO it with Draco Meteor
- Survive Salamence Draco Meteor
- Sitrus Berry have a synergy with Berserk that if you healed more than 50% of your HP, you can activate Berserk again
I think the big reason that Megas are gone, as some probably have said, is to highlight the effectiveness of Z-Moves and their impact in creating their own meta. Back in 2014, there was tons of variety when it came to Megas since there were so many different choices and a shortish period of time to really learn everything. I sort of envision the same thing in this case where there will be a lot of powerful Z-Move strategies, but then over time the best Z-strats will come alive and then the meta might stagnate a little. But it's still exciting nonetheless. AS for mons that I think will be good? Aside from obvious Tapus, I really am interested in seeing how Rain, Hail and sand will fare. It doesn't seem like Sun will work as well as it did in VGC16, but with new toys for hail like Slush Rush Beartic, and Sandslash, as well as some cool new things for Rain, especially thing slike Celesteela, and Xurkitree that really appreciate Rain.
Oh and have we mentioned how godawful Alolan Muk will be? That's why I brought up sand, actually. It's a shame that we don't have too many good Ground types in this format, which means that Alolan Muk will be a thing to watch. I can efinitely see Celesteela being something that would be decent agaginst it since it's immune to Poison, and takes neutal from dark, and it gets EQ, but like, it's difficult. I'm sure there'll be Ground Z-Moves that'll be more than enough to deal with it when it comes down to it.
But yeah, I'm going to hold off on commenting for a bit longer until I get a true chance to even try thing out because I don't want to overblow something before it's even out yet.
But I'm definitely excited!
EDIT: If Alolan MiniMuk is actually a thing, things like Kartana and Celesteela will have to run Smart Strike which is dumb, and yet expected. At least for Kartana Smart Strike is it's best STAB alol.
But megas centralized the meta even more. Think about Kanga or mega Salamence, the glorious CHALK. With normal pokémon there is much more diversity, imho. Megas are cool, yeah, but they created a centralized meta for vgc.
If you want Megas in VGC '17, go play the in-game ladder before it gets patched up. GF forgot to ban them on the VGC ladder. If you don't want to play against Megas, avoid it and play on Showdown for now. Or enjoy the storyline.
But megas centralized the meta even more. Think about Kanga or mega Salamence, the glorious CHALK. With normal pokémon there is much more diversity, imho. Megas are cool, yeah, but they created a centralized meta for vgc.
