Is this the Incineroar you've been using?
Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Darkest Lariat
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Singles 3v3 General Discussion
- Thread starter cant say
- Start date
Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Darkest Lariat
You need speed investment to outspeed Celesteela since it's a base 61 and Incineroar is only base 60. If you want to outspeed 0 speed neutral nature Celesteela you need at least 12 speed (take it out of Attack, it doesn't really change your KOs too much). If you want to outspeed 252 speed Jolly Marowak-A (which some people do run, hilariously enough!) you need 212, that's the range of options you want to consider though I wouldn't recommend investing that heavily. 28 speed (which gives you a stat of 84 at lv50) will cover you against the 132 EV Marowaks that are built to outspeed neutral/0 investment Celesteela by 1 point as well as the Marowaks/Celesteelas that run an extra point of speed to get a leg up in that optimization war.
Something annoying I've seen an increase of are Perish Trap Mega Gengar paired with an Eject Button Pokemon. The basic idea is to use Perish Song, Protect, then switch to the Eject Button Pokemon. If you end up attacking it, they go straight back to Mega Gengar and Protect as you go down! To make things even nastier, a lot of these Mega Gengar have Destiny Bond as well, so it can take out 2/3 of your team if you aren't careful!
FYI most common Eject Button Pokemon I've seen paired with this strategy is Klefki, probably because it can use Dual Screens + Eject Button fairly well, but I can see more random Pokemon pulling this off too.
FYI most common Eject Button Pokemon I've seen paired with this strategy is Klefki, probably because it can use Dual Screens + Eject Button fairly well, but I can see more random Pokemon pulling this off too.
Absolutely, that's why Porygon2 is everywhere. I think Porygon2 is going to be a better use of your eviolite 9 times out of 10. But of course Rhydon does provide an electric immunity which is nice given Koko's prominence.
Another reason PG2 is everywhere is because there aren't really any strong fighting attacks in the meta around right now. Between the prominence of fighting resistant intimidate users like Salamence and Gyarados, strong ghost types like Marowak-A and Aegislash and all of the fairy types in the meta it's just a really bad time to be a fighting type. In VGC Hariyama exists as a PG2 check but without Trick Room support he feels like dead weight on a lot of teams.
Another reason PG2 is everywhere is because there aren't really any strong fighting attacks in the meta around right now. Between the prominence of fighting resistant intimidate users like Salamence and Gyarados, strong ghost types like Marowak-A and Aegislash and all of the fairy types in the meta it's just a really bad time to be a fighting type. In VGC Hariyama exists as a PG2 check but without Trick Room support he feels like dead weight on a lot of teams.
Tapu Fini can take a hit, Aegislash is really good as well but has to watch out for waterium Z, same case for Megagross. Though a lot of cloysters run sash over Z move, so if you know they're running sash it becomes a lot easier to check. Making sure you have special attackers out against a cloyster team is really good as well, you always wanna try to be be in a position where you have something out that can bring cloyster to sash, then you can just pick it off with priority assuming you have something that doesn't get OHKO'd by Ice Shard. That's not always easy of course but I think it's something you should be thinking about at least, trying your best to avoid any possible situation where cloyster would get free set-up.
In addition to what NOVED said: if you're desperate, a Bold P2 can switch in the turn it sets up, take a +2 hit, and land a Thunder Wave. It should be easy to mop up after that. This plan is less good if they're using Lum Berry or King's Rock, but Sash and Waterium-Z are by far more common.
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Hydro Vortex (140 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 109-129 (57 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 105-125 (54.9 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Stealth Rock is also excellent against sash wearers.
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Hydro Vortex (140 BP) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 109-129 (57 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 244 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 105-125 (54.9 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Stealth Rock is also excellent against sash wearers.
Depends on what you want to use it for. I posted a set in the 'good movesets for new pokemon' thread that works pretty well as a physical tank, the attack reducing property of Lunge and roost as reliable recovery make it almost impossible to break without a special attack, aside from M-Mence double edges. It's very good against M-Gyara, M-Kanga and other pure physical attackers but has kind of piddly special bulk, not as bad as Kartana but still pretty bad. Has trouble with mixed attackers like non-subseed Celesteela (I'm amazed and annoyed that people still run subseed+protect Celesteela btw, it's a trashy, one dimensional gimmick compared to the mixed attacker set) and M-Mence in particular.
Why is no one playing hidden power in the data given? Is it bad in battle spot
It's not just battle spot, an error occurred while the data was being gathered so hidden power hasn't shown up in the stats for any tier/metagame this month.
I was thinking that now, thanks to bottle caps, you can play hidden power fire without lost at 100% speed ties, cause you must have 30 ivs in speed, but the bottle caps bring the stat at the max, so it's like if your pokemon has 31 ivs in speed.
I've been using this spread on Incineroar to some decent success
Incineroar @ Incinium Z
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 176 HP / 252 Atk / 80 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Flare Blitz
- Darkest Lariat
- Taunt
- U-turn
With this spread, Incineroar ends up with 90 speed, which is more than enough to outspeed Celesteela and in the very rare instance, a +speed nature Marowak with 132 Speed Ev's. The standard Celesteela Sets are easily dealt with:
252+ Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celesteela: 204-240 (100 - 117.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(204, 204, 206, 210, 212, 216, 216, 218, 222, 224, 228, 228, 230, 234, 236, 240)
Whereas Heavy Slam:
252+ Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 51-61 (26.5 - 31.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
(51, 52, 53, 54, 54, 54, 55, 56, 57, 57, 57, 58, 59, 60, 60, 61)
As far as still dealing with Alolan Maowak:
252+ Atk Incineroar Darkest Lariat vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 134-162 (88.7 - 107.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
(134, 138, 138, 140, 144, 144, 146, 146, 150, 150, 152, 152, 156, 156, 158, 162)
252+ Atk Incineroar Malicious Moonsault vs. 124 HP / 0 Def Marowak-Alola: 288-338 (190.7 - 223.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(288, 290, 294, 296, 300, 302, 306, 308, 314, 318, 320, 324, 326, 330, 332, 338)
while Earthquake is still a 2HKO
252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak-Alola Earthquake vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Incineroar: 148-176 (77 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(148, 150, 152, 154, 156, 158, 160, 160, 162, 164, 166, 168, 170, 172, 174, 176)
He's also really great at dealing with Aegislash in all forms since he outspeeds it handily:
252+ Atk Incineroar Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 146-174 (87.4 - 104.1%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
(146, 146, 150, 152, 152, 156, 156, 158, 158, 162, 164, 164, 168, 168, 170, 174)
252+ Atk Incineroar Malicious Moonsault vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 218-260 (130.5 - 155.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(218, 222, 224, 228, 230, 234, 236, 240, 240, 242, 246, 248, 252, 254, 258, 260)
My biggest issue so far with using him is providing enough speed control and support so that Incineroar and Buzzwole can succeed. I'm thinking maybe twave porygon 2 but I'm all for hearing any ideas on how to make this better.
Awesome to see that Garchomp is still #1, like we all predicted. I also like that Alolan Marowak is on there, it really is a cool mon. But I'm honestly really surprised to see Tapu Koko as #2 and that Cloyster is nowhere to be found.
I'm truly shocked that Mimikyu is as high as it is. Like, Theorymon and I have been hyping it to hell and back since before the games dropped, and we all knew it was going to be really good but #7 is astounding. Gyarados at #3 is surprisingly as well, considering that Salamence has a far better Mega and that's sitting down at #9...
Somewhat surprised to see Gyarados overtake Salamence, but even more surprising that Gengar isn't even Top 10 right now. Still think fairly Mimikyu is overrated but in the current pre-Bank meta I'm not too surprised it's up there right now, I'm sure that'll change post-Bank. The thing I like the most is that Garchomp is still #1 even with Celesteela around, if that thing and the Tapus aren't enough to drop Garchomp's slot then honestly nothing will.
its not you, people are hella salty this gen. Its like the salty showdown folks spread to the game cartridge lol