A brand new Metagross idea.

[Slice n Dice]

I was thinking of alternative pokemon sets, and stumbled upon this one:


Metagross-- 252 Attack, 154 hp, 104 defense.(Any suggestions are appreciated)

Brave-0 Speed iv needed for this set.

Hammer Arm
Gyro Ball
Bullet Punch/Meteor Mash/ EQ
ThunderPunch/Explosion

This really seems like it has potential. Hammer arm has better coverage than eq(although less accuracy and does't cover weakness) and lowers speed one stage. why not take advantage of hammer arm's drawback? If metagross has its lowest possible speed(which is 130) a hammer arm will bring it down to 98. gyro ball will get amazing power. This set works wonders in trick room teams as well. The hold item is really personal preference between life orb, leftovers, and macho brace to power up gyro ball. This set really seems like it would work.

 

[Bourbon]

nice, I thought of this a while ago. I was trying to find out what the strongest Gyro Ball poke could be, and Metagross was an idea.

Gyro Ball can do up to 225 damage (factoring in STAB) which is absolutely insane. Also, Hammer Arm can get Super Effective on Skarmory if it roosts... this could do quite good.

 

[storm]

yeah it will work. Trick room with it and say gg.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I'm pretty sure there was already a thread on slow-gyro ball-gross. And that thread had damage calcs . . . well, they were calcs that showed slowgross does more damage than bronzong with iron ball.

On the other hand though, that thread bashed the idea quite a bit . . .

 

[Thorns]

This isn't new, I think. Someone already came up with the Hammer Arm/Gyro Ball combo on Metagross. I believe Metagross has better things to do anyway, like use a Choice Band!

 

[Yoshi King]

This isn't new, I think. Someone already came up with the Hammer Arm/Gyro Ball combo on Metagross. I believe Metagross has better things to do anyway, like use a Choice Band!

That's what people said about Garchomp before Surgo came up with Chainchomp, don't disregard the idea because CB is something that works already.

This, in my opinion, is actually a really great (though unfortunately unoriginal) use of Hammer Arm+ Gyro Ball. I might give it a go on a Trick Room team. However, I think that Trick Room should already be in effect for this to reach maximum potential (yes I know it isn't in the set but Metagross learns it so just saying). 1 turn set up+1 turn needing to use Hammer Arm is a bit much before being able to use Gyro Ball effectively (And Steel has plenty of common resistances so people will know to switch into Skarm etc.), so this may be best used with a Life Orb/HP Fire/another special attack.

 

[Bourbon]

Hmmmm, Earthquake, Hammer Arm, Trick Room and Gyro Ball could be a functional set. Slap on the Leftovers, Hammer Arm it up a few turns, and Trick Room to start the sweeping. EQ for coverage.

 

[Fishin]

This set was mentioned awhile ago, actually. It really needs damage calculations, though, since I doubt any of us can estimate Gyro Ball damage off the top of our heads.

Anyways, unfortunately Hammer Arm doesn't get nearly as good coverage with Meteor Mash as EQ (Electric, Fire, Water, and Steel resist Steel. EQ hits 3 of those SE, while Hammer arm only hits one SE), so that decreases it's effectiveness a bit, as does 10 lower base power and accuracy.

And for the record, I'd put HP Fire since you're using Brave. With a neutral nature, 80 sp atk, and expert belt it stands a good chance of a 2HKO on Skarm regardless of roosting (51.20% - 60.18%) while even a SE Hammer Arm (with Expert Belt) only does 45.51% - 53.59%. And HP Fire is useful for a bunch of other things as well (Forry/Scizor, Tangrowth, Bronzong).

 

[Slice n Dice]

ill put that in there. calcs are being done atm.
how do i factor in the o speed iv though? got any calcs that can do that?

 

[Fishin]

The Gyro Ball formula is different from a normal one, the calculator I normally use doesn't work with it. If you need it, this thread has some info on it:

http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=363429

 

[Anti]

Yeah, this was mentioned a while ago, I believe the general consensus was that Meteor Mash works better overall. I do love the Hammer Arm / Gyroball combo though, I use it on my Miltank xD

 

[Aeroblacktyl]

Um..doesn't Meteor Mash just hits harder right off the bat no matter what? Well, GB has more accuracy, but way less PP, which could matter should you randomly hit Suicunes/Zapdoes, or even while killing Weavile.

Also if the IV is 0, just subtract like 31 stat points from it's speed....which btw Metagross is still pretty fast for GB without the Hammer Arm drops..

 

[StrangerDanger]

Um..doesn't Meteor Mash just hits harder right off the bat no matter what? Well, GB has more accuracy, but way less PP, which could matter should you randomly hit Suicunes/Zapdoes, or even while killing Weavile.

Also if the IV is 0, just subtract like 31 stat points from it's speed....which btw Metagross is still pretty fast for GB without the Hammer Arm drops..

QFT. Being on the Stark boards for awhile, this same thread has appeared maybe 4 times now. The way it goes is you say "it's a good set", then someone agrees that is it a good set and then discussion and then we all realize that this is sort of gimmicky, and that while it is viable, there's never too many reasons to use it over something like Meteor Mash that hits like a freight train and can add +1 Atk's to your sweep-ready metagross, and can also be used to overpower walls, than to use something like this that has small potential, and needs you to be able to use Hammer Arm/Gyro Ball effectively, when in many cases this metagross would just be threatened and lose the opportunity to use it at all, becoming "dead weight" (pun intended) near the end of a game, almost all the time.

EDIT: I know near the end it becomes a little x pokemon beats y pokemon, but the point i'm getting at is--

When faced with a generic physical wall, say, Weezing, i'd much rather Meteor Mash the shit out of it than Hammer Arm it and then Gyro ball, you know? It just doesn't pose enough of a threat for its counters, which i think is important before considering any new set.

EDIT2: like uhh Grass Knot for Swampert, HP Fire for Skarmory, and then like Meteor Mash and EQ or something idk.

 

[Agahnim]

This set works. But there are things that work better. IMO, the point of using surprise sets is to KO the normal counter easily, for example chainchomp.

From the analysis:

Skarmory can come in on most of Metagross's physical attacks and Metagross usually doesn't run special attacks. Choice Band ThunderPunch hurts, but will leave Metagross vulnerable to Ground Pokemon. Swampert and Bronzong can also switch in on most of Metagross's physical attacks. They take more damage than Skarmory but aren't particularly weak to any of Metagross's physical attacks. Hippowdon has Skarmory like defense and a powerful STAB Earthquake. It sucks up Meteor Mash and hits back hard. Garchomp's Earthquake can hit for as much as 90% of Metagross's HP and if it holds a Choice Band or Life Orb, it's an instant kill. It can survive any attack outside of Ice Punch. With a Choice Scarf, it can outrun Metagross even after one Agility. Magnezone terrorizes any kind of Metagross that cannot Earthquake it in time. Magnet Pull prevents Metagross from running so if Magenzone is faster and Metagross is low enough on HP to be KO'd in one shot, Metagross is a goner. If Metagross is using a Choice item and is locked into an attack that Magnezone isn't weak to or the Metagross simply does not have an attack super effective on Magenzone, Metagross is a goner. For the most part, keep it away from Fire Type Pokemon.

That is the counters section. This Metagross still gets countered by the exact same thing, and may deal even less damage than standard gross as its counters are also quite slow.

 

[cim]

Could be done. If you're insane slap on Iron Ball. Have fun.

 

[DMFG]

Max power Gyro Ball without item boost = BP 225.
Max power Meteor Mash with CB = BP 225 (or close enough).

I just can't be bothered to hit Weezing/Swampert/whatever with a Hammer Arm only to get forced out before I can even attack with Gyro Ball.

The fact that most of Gross's counters are slow as hell already makes this even worse - most of the time your Gyro Ball will only be about as powerful as a non-boosted Meteor Mash even after a Hammer Arm speed drop.

I mean sure you could use this set, but I don't see what it's for. It doesn't seem to achieve anything normal Gross doesn't.

 

[Gmax]

If you really want to use Gyro Ball, absorb TWave. Thats pretty much the best way to do it.

 

[Age of Kings]

yeah it will work. Trick room with it and say gg.

I was wondering how much ass Trick Room would kick in OU. Everyone tries to outrun everyone else, no?

I keep thinking of how nice a Porygon2 starter would be.

Too bad, as the other people have noted, it's unoriginal, but it'll work fine. Hammer Arm makes it faster in TR anyways.

Could be done. If you're insane slap on Iron Ball. Have fun.

Too bad Shoddy doesn't have it for some reason....I tried to put it on my Blastoise on my BL team, but it doesn't have it. =/
A speed doubler better than Choice Scarf without the side effect, yay. :'D

 

[Samwise]

yeah I think I've seen it three times. But it's a good strategy

 

[Tytus]

I was suprised that Metagross doesn't learn Trick Room himself. I was kind of hoping he would, so I wouldn't have to switch so much.

 

[Slice n Dice]

why can't he just learn tr....

 

[Boa1891]

To have max power, IIRC, your opponent needs SIX TIMES your speed-
That means that before a hammer arm, they'd need 780 speed (since min. is 130). After one Hammer Arm, (98 speed), they'd need 588. After Two Hammer Arms, or if is holding an Iron Orb, (65 speed), they'd need 390 speed.

Metagross simply has too high base speed to efficiently use this, not to mention that being outsped and being KOed are very similar in Metagross's vocabulary. That's why Agiligross is popular.

It'd be walled by almost any wall, and if they can outspeed you (even though walls are normally slow) you won't ever do any sort of damage.

 

[Yoshi King]

I was wondering how much ass Trick Room would kick in OU. Everyone tries to outrun everyone else, no?

I keep thinking of how nice a Porygon2 starter would be.

Before I respond to this I want to apologize for my mistake above, I was quite sure that Meta learned TR since pretty much every psychic does...

Anyways unless it's in doubles, Trick Room teams are really ineffective. You constantly need to be refreshing the trick room every 4-5 turns, using Trick Room while Trick Room is on switches things back to normal instead of extending it (so if you have 1 turn of TR left and only one TR user who's about to get KO'd, you're pretty much screwed).

Adding to this is the accursed negative priority modifier so the only moves you'll be outspeeding are Roar, Whirlwind, Counter etc.. Any player who gets lucky with Yanmega or whatever with flinchhax will ruin you completely. It's especially frustrating when you know you would outspeed your opponent anyways but the priority modifier fucks you over.

Finally, there's a finite selection of usable TR users... mainly speedy ghosts, psychics and a couple of normal types. Pokemon who can truly abuse TR for sweeping (Rampardos is the absolute best example) are next to useless without it (exceptions are Slowbro), yet because of the fact that you'll need 2-4 TR users (I use 3 myself) you're really setting yourself up for some devastating weaknesses. My TR team for example has a glaring weakness to most water types and there really isn't anything I can do to fix that without imbalancing my other type priorities.

Anyways to end my post I also want to add that Porygon 2 is an excellent choice for a Trick Room team and an even more wonderful Gyarados counter if it has Trace and you focus on its defenses. Bring it in on the turn they DD (which negates the ATK boost thanks to Trace), and then TR if you need to/OHKO with Thunderbolt. Beautiful.

 

[cim]

Props for not totally sucking! Not fantastic, but not utter shit like Special Gyarados. Man, that set was terrible... and ended up getting me banned later.

Gyro Ball seems inferior to Meteor Mash. It has less base power against things Metagross isn't 5000 times slower than, which is a lot since even 0 and Brave can't make up for 70 Speed for Gyro Ball. Then again, Hammer Arm and Macho Brace help. But I'd rather Meteor Mash and Wide Lens/Life Orb stuff.

Earthquake and Hammer Arm have pretty much identical coverage, but more things are immune to EQ. Then again, which one kills Magnezone faster?

Other than those quibbles this Metagross would be pretty effective in Trick Room (does it learn it?). I'd give it max HP instead since its Defense is already decent.

 

[cim]

Oh yeah, I forgot to notice the discussion of Trick Room. I made a TR team over my ban; it was decent but not great. It turns out I needed 4 guys with Trick Room to be effective.