Policy Review Evolution Project Rules Workshop

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I'd like to see an "Evolution Process Guide" posted here. The guide should contain the Order of Events (Tennis posted this earlier), as well as descriptions of any parts of the process that are not already described in the normal CAP process (Selecting a species, for example). So, this guide will be significantly shorter than the current CAP process guide.

Until this process is fully documented, we will not kick off an EVO project. Originally, I wanted to see the EVO project start after the final movepool poll in CAP5. However, the EVO process has not been finalized, and the movepool threads for CAP5 will be done in a few days.

If no one else takes on the task of documenting the EVO process, then I will have to do it. If it falls to me, then it will probably not get done before the conclusion of the the CAP5 movepool. I have several other things to do that take precedence. So, can one or more people jump in here and get this done?
 
!jump

I'll do it, and edit it in here. I already made the process, the pool of eligible Pokemon, and I'll steal the other things from the normal CAP project guide.
 
tennisace0227 said:
!jump

I'll do it, and edit it in here. I already made the process, the pool of eligible Pokemon, and I'll steal the other things from the normal CAP project guide.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear -- You don't need to duplicate anything that is already in the process. If an EVO project step is conducted the same as the regular CAP project, then do not copy it into an EVO Process Guide. Because then we have to update two guides when the regular CAP process changes. Just describe the parts of the EVO process that are different from regular CAP's.
 
DougJustDoug said:
Just to be clear -- You don't need to duplicate anything that is already in the process. If an EVO project step is conducted the same as the regular CAP project, then do not copy it into an EVO Process Guide. Because then we have to update two guides when the regular CAP process changes. Just describe the parts of the EVO process that are different from regular CAP's.
Click to expand...

Oh ok.

Process:

1. Pokemon to be given an evolution discussion:
The pool of Pokemon to be chosen for an evolution will be as follows:
Code: 
Abomasnow
Absol       
Altaria     
Arbok     
Ariados     
Banette     
Bibarel     
Cacturne     
Camerupt     
Carnivine     
Chatot 
Cherrim     
Claydol     
Corsola     
Crawdaunt     
Delcatty     
Delibird     
Dewgong     
Dodrio     
Drapion     
Drifblim     
Dunsparce     
Electrode     
Farfetch'd     
Fearow 
Floatzel
Furret     
Gastrodon     
Girafarig     
Golduck     
Granbull     
Grumpig     
Hariyama
Houndoom
Hypno     
Illumise    
Jynx     
Kangaskhan     
Kecleon     
Kingler     
Kricketune     
Lanturn     
Lapras     
Ledian     
Linoone     
Lopunny     
Lumineon     
Lunatone   
Luvdisc     
Magcargo     
Manectric     
Mantine     
Marowak
Masquerain     
Mawile     
Mightyena     
Miltank   
Minun     
Muk
Noctowl     
Octillery     
Pachirisu     
Parasect     
Pelipper     
Persian     
Pinsir
Plusle
Primeape     
Purugly     
Quagsire     
Qwilfish     
Rapidash     
Raticate     
Relicanth     
Sableye     
Sandslash     
Seaking     
Seviper     
Sharpedo     
Shuckle     
Skuntank     
Smeargle
Solrock     
Spinda     
Stantler     
Swalot     
Swellow     
Tauros
Torkoal     
Toxicroak     
Tropius     
Ursaring
Venomoth     
Vespiquen     
Volbeat    
Wailord     
Weezing     
Whiscash     
Xatu
Zangoose
No Pokemon not in that list may be discussed. Each person may suggest one Pokemon for evolution, and must fully explain what each Pokemon evolution would bring to the metagame. People may post in support of Pokemon, but must back up their support with solid competitive reasoning.

Ex.
Bad Post said:
I think we should evolve Xatu, its really bad and needs to get better, and its a really cool looking pokemon, so the art would be AMAZING.
Click to expand...

There was absolutely no competitive reasoning in that post. It wouldn't be accepted.

Good Post said:
I believe that we should evolve Xatu. It's a fast psychic sweeper, but its secondary typing, Flying, would help the metagame a lot. An evolution would possibly be able to revenge kill every current CAP, save Rockmon, using its STAB Psychic+Air Slash, in addition to the Hidden Power of it's choice. It can also run a support moveset with it's (soon to be) decent defenses and myriad of resistances, including the 4x Fighting resist that would make this a perfect Revenankh revenge killer.
Click to expand...

This submission was much better. The Pokemon in question was bolded, and there were many reasons backing up his/her choice. There was a detailed explanation of what an evolution would bring to the metagame. This post would be accepted.

Topic Leader Nominations:
Same as normal CAP.

2. Pokemon Poll:
The TL would choose ~10 submissions that gained a good amount of support for the polls.

Topic Leader Selection
Same as normal CAP.

3. Type Poll
There would be primary and secondary type polls just like normal CAP, but "No change" would be an option in both. Keep in mind that one type has to stay the same through evolution. A "Which type should we change" Poll would precede the actual type poll.

Stat Spread Submissions
Same as normal CAP, keeping in mind that the stats have to resemble the Pokemon being evolved.

Art Submissions
Same as normal CAP.

4. Stat Rating Poll
Condensed version of the normal CAP. The stats would fit into a general mold anyway, so one day polls for each part would be conducted (BSR, PSB, ODB.)

5. Stat Spread Poll
Same as normal CAP.

6. Art Poll
Same as normal CAP.

7a. Ability Discussion
Same as normal CAP.

Sprite Submissions
Same as normal CAP.
7b. Ability Poll
Same as normal CAP.

8a. Movepool Discussion
The discussion would center on what should be added to the movepool, if anything. The basic movepool is already set. People would submit packages of additions based on feedback.

8b. Movepool Poll
Standard vote on different packages of additions.

9a. Name Discussion
Same as normal CAP. The name should fit into the same theme as the Prevo.

9b. Name Poll
Same as normal CAP.

10a. Pokedex Entry Discussion
Same as normal CAP.

10b. Pokedex Entry Poll
Same as normal CAP.

11. Sprite Poll
Same as normal CAP.

12. Server Implementation
Finalize Analysis
Misc (Height, Weight, etc.)
Playtesting
Same as normal CAP.
 
Are you allowed to use typing in your argument of what Pokemon you want to evolve? I have what I believe to be a good argument, but it is strongly tied to giving a particular Pokemon a certain second typing. I understand why you can't in the normal CaP, but you have more freedom to make completely original movesets and stats to make the Pokemon OU viable than you do with the EVO project.
 
Master of Llamas said:
Are you allowed to use typing in your argument of what Pokemon you want to evolve? I have what I believe to be a good argument, but it is strongly tied to giving a particular Pokemon a certain second typing. I understand why you can't in the normal CaP, but you have more freedom to make completely original movesets and stats to make the Pokemon OU viable than you do with the EVO project.
Click to expand...

I have no clue what you're driving at with that. In general, yes, typing could be an arguement I guess.
 
X-Act said:
I think the process should start by singling out the Pokemon that is going to be evolved. This could kinda replace the concept submissions part and the concept poll in the normal CAP.

Main type poll could be omitted if the Pokemon chosen has only one type. I might be wrong, but I believe that every evolved Pokemon shares at least one type of its pre-evo. The main poll can be done to choose between which of the two types should remain in the evolved Pokemon, if the Pokemon chosen to be evolved has two types. The secondary type poll, then, will decide its second type as usual.

I'll continue elaborating on this later, as I have a lecture now.
Click to expand...

the marill line is the exception
 
For the first EVO I can see excluding Split evolutions and a few odd ones makes sense, but once we get a feel for how the process works some of the more complicated evolutions should be permitted.

And Eevee is also an exception to the must keep one type the same rule. However... I really doubt we will want to make something change both types, so that rule can stay.

Stat Spread Submissions
Same as normal CAP, keeping in mind that the stats have to resemble the Pokemon being evolved.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, but they do not have to be extremely close. Scyther-Scizor Metang-Metagross and a good few others prove this.
For example it would be ok to make a Farfech'd evo significantly more offensive than defensive even though its stats are close to balanced as they are now.
 
All those "evolution pairs" seem pretty stupid to me. As a fanboy, yes I agree those pokemon "go together", whatever that means. But, for a competitive project, I don't think we should make this a fundamental part of the project structure.

If we want to evolve a pokemon, then let's evaluate that pokemon on its own competitive merits -- do not complicate it by bringing in issues with the "partner" pokemon. Those complications don't add anything competitively, since none of those "pairs" are connected competitively. Perhaps Plusle and Minun are connected competitively, but that only applies to doubles play.

Get rid of all that pair stuff. We don't need the headache, and we don't need the project to be any more non-competitive (ie. fanboy) than it already is.
 
I agree with Doug, plus there is precedent for pairs evolving seperately (scyther evolved without pinsir, Jynx got a prevo two generations before Mr.Mime did).

But then again, Volbeat/Illumise are supposed to be sexual dimorphism of the same species (like Nidoran) and it would feel weird to evolve one without the other. However, there is also precedent for only one gender of a single species to be able to evolve (Vespiquen and Gallade) so that's probably ok too.

The only pair I really feel can't be evolved seperately are Plusle and Minun simply because they are connected competitavely.

The fact that doubles is competitave cannot be ignored just because our simulator (currently) does not support it.
 
Dusclops/noir and Banette is another exception. Now that I think about it, that is fanboyish, though it still seems weird to evolve Seviper without Zangoose, or Lunatone without Solrock.

Is sticking to the Eeveeloution stat patterns fanboyish too? Technically it should not matter since who cares what evolves from what, Bellossom is completely competitively independant of Vileplume, but it just seems to cross a line.
 
sanjay120 said:
Dusclops/noir and Banette is another exception. Now that I think about it, that is fanboyish, though it still seems weird to evolve Seviper without Zangoose, or Lunatone without Solrock.

Is sticking to the Eeveeloution stat patterns fanboyish too? Technically it should not matter since who cares what evolves from what, Bellossom is completely competitively independant of Vileplume, but it just seems to cross a line.
Click to expand...

no optional evos, noir and clops aren't up for evolution
 
K I'll take out the pairs. Are we all ready? The movepool poll starts Late Saturday/Midday Sunday.

Fixed.
 
Sweet, I totally like this! There is a lot of pokemon I would love to make evolutions for... Octillery, Crawdaunt, Banette, Xatu, etc.

I think I will actually participate in a CAP for once.
 
Aren't we considering doing a Scyther->Scizor style evolution, where we simply rearrange the stats, and change the type combo, or a Porygon2->Porygon-Z evolution, where some of the Pokemon's stats decrease, and they have a different role competitively?
 
SHUCKLE MAN said:
Aren't we considering doing a Scyther->Scizor style evolution, where we simply rearrange the stats, and change the type combo, or a Porygon2->Porygon-Z evolution, where some of the Pokemon's stats decrease, and they have a different role competitively?
Click to expand...
It could be ether.
It all depends on the votes and the Pokemon we plan to evolve.
 
tennisace0227 said:
Oh ok.

Process:

1. Pokemon to be given an evolution discussion:
The pool of Pokemon to be chosen for an evolution will be as follows:
Code: 
Abomasnow
Absol       
Altaria     
Arbok     
Ariados     
Banette     
Bibarel     
Cacturne     
Camerupt     
Carnivine     
Chatot 
Cherrim     
Claydol     
Corsola     
Crawdaunt     
Delcatty     
Delibird     
Dewgong     
Dodrio     
Drapion     
Drifblim     
Dunsparce     
Electrode     
Farfetch'd     
Fearow 
Floatzel
Furret     
Gastrodon     
Girafarig     
Golduck     
Granbull     
Grumpig     
Hariyama
Houndoom
Hypno     
Illumise    
Jynx     
Kangaskhan     
Kecleon     
Kingler     
Kricketune     
Lanturn     
Lapras     
Ledian     
Linoone     
Lopunny     
Lumineon     
Lunatone   
Luvdisc     
Magcargo     
Manectric     
Mantine     
Marowak
Masquerain     
Mawile     
Mightyena     
Miltank   
Minun     
Muk
Noctowl     
Octillery     
Pachirisu     
Parasect     
Pelipper     
Persian     
Pinsir
Plusle
Primeape     
Purugly     
Quagsire     
Qwilfish     
Rapidash     
Raticate     
Relicanth     
Sableye     
Sandslash     
Seaking     
Seviper     
Sharpedo     
Shuckle     
Skuntank     
Smeargle
Solrock     
Spinda     
Stantler     
Steelix     
Swalot     
Swellow     
Tauros
Torkoal     
Toxicroak     
Tropius     
Ursaring
Venomoth     
Vespiquen     
Volbeat    
Wailord     
Weezing     
Whiscash     
Xatu
Zangoose
No Pokemon not in that list may be discussed. Each person may suggest one Pokemon for evolution, and must fully explain what each Pokemon evolution would bring to the metagame. People may post in support of Pokemon, but must back up their support with solid competitive reasoning.
Click to expand...

I can't see Castform on the list and I've searched this thread if anyone mentions why he is left out, but I didn't find anything written about him.

Why is he left out from the list? He's a typical UU in my opinion.
 
Petope said:
I can't see Castform on the list and I've searched this thread if anyone mentions why he is left out, but I didn't find anything written about him.

Why is he left out from the list? He's a typical UU in my opinion.
Click to expand...

The fact that Castform changes forms due to different weather. We'd either have to do 4 evolutions or an evolution with multiple forms, so no.
 
why would we have to do four different forms? first of all, i think he only has three forms (rain, sun and hail...he doesn't change in sandstorm), and second of all, there's no reason that it couldn't keep the same ability and stuff. it might require four different pieces of art work, but its really the same poke in all circumstances. i don't think that castform should be left off the list.
 
I can understand that we'll leave him out for the firsts rounds of the EVO projekt. But after that I think he could be included because he has a niche of his own and would probobly only/mostly need a boost in stats for his evo. The biggest problem I see with him is that he'll need 4 Sprites instead of just one.

But lets leave him out for the first rounds and later I'll probobly gnab about bringing him into the list. hehe
 
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