np: UU - A New Beginning

Status
Not open for further replies.

Legacy Raider

sharpening his claws, slowly
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I was looking for solid anti-leads for UU, seeing as ScarfRoserade, Ambipom, and Crobat are so common. Leads in UU are a huge deal in this new metagame from what I've seen, so getting up a quick 6-5 can throw a huge curveball for the opponent's team that he or she may not recover from.
I posted this in the old N&C Movesets thread and didn't get too many responses, so I thought I might as well post here for posterity's sake. I've been using it with a lot of success - it is one of the most reliable leads I have ever used, and several of the opponent's I face regularly on the UU ladder can attest to its effectiveness.



Anit-Lead Arcanine

Arcanine @ Lum Berry
Intimidate
Adamant / Naughty
192 HP / 252 Atk / 64 Spe

- Flare Blitz
- Extremespeed
- Toxic
- Overheat / Thunder Fang
-----

Arcanine has excellent stats all round, and this set tries to make use of every one of them. It has the ability to be both very bulky and yet hit extremely hard at the same time, and with Intimidate and Extremespeed, makes a really great anti-lead. Flare Blitz is a high powered STAB move that does massive damage to everything that doesn't resist it. Extremespeed is the crux of this set, allowing Arcanine to take out faster, frail leads with ease. And because of the great bulk that this set has, it also allows Arcanine to serve as a great revenge killer later on in the game too. Against Arcanine, the bulky water switch in is inevitable, and a well predicted Toxic will cripple both Slowbro and Milotic for the rest of the battle. Steel types never switch into Arcanine, and Poison is usually paired up with Grass, so there's very little risk involved in using Toxic. Arcanine handily survives Surfs from both of them anyway. I personally prefer Overheat in the last slot to get the hit on things like Steelix and Cloyster, as well as giving me a high powered STAB attack when I don't fancy losing HP or have been Intimidated. Thunder Fang can be used to hit water types with, but because of its very low power I wouldn't recommend it (it doesn't 2HKO Milotic or Slowbro, meaning it is pretty worthless).

The EVs are quite straightforward. Max attack to make the most use of Extremespeed and Flare Blitz, enough speed to outrun max speed Adamant Honchkrow and Timid Abomasnow, and the rest put into HP to buff Arcanine up. It also gives Arcanine a HP divisible by 4, +1, although this will almost never come into account because of the attacks Arcanine has to take and Flare Blitz recoil.

Arcanine does very well against almost all of the common leads:
-----

(all calcs assume Intimidate)

Crobat
152 Atk Brave Bird vs Arcanine: 30.1 - 35.8%
Arcanine's Flare Blitz vs 104/0 Crobat: 68.5 - 81.0%
Arcanine's Extremespeed vs 104/0 Crobat: 30.6 - 36.2%

Easy win for Arcanine - very little Crobat can do against it, and if it is one of the rare Hypnosis versions, Arcanine takes it with its Lum Berry.

Froslass
252 SpA Ice Beam vs Arcanine: 18.2 - 21.7%
Arcanine's Flare Blitz vs 4/0 Froslass: 100%
Arcanine's Overheat vs 4/0 Froslass: 100%

Froslass will get a layer of Spikes up against Arcanine, but when it is at 1HP and tries to Destiny Bond you, simply finish it off with Toxic to avoid being taken down.

Ambipom
Silk Scarf 252 Atk Fake Out vs Arcanine: 21.4 - 25.5%
Arcanine's Flare Blitz vs 4/0 Ambipom: 92.7 - 100%
Arcanine's Extremespeed vs 4/0 Ambipom: 41.2 - 48.8%

With Intimidate, Arcanine takes Fake Out with ease, and if Ambipom makes the mistake of U-turning out, you can halve its health with Extremespeed.

Roserade
252 SpA Roserade Sludge Bomb vs Arcanine: 46.6 - 55.3%
Arcanine's Flare Blitz vs 4/0 Roserade: 100%
Arcanine's Overheat vs 4/0 Roserade: 100%
Arcanine's Extremespeed vs 4/0 Roserade: 52.9 - 62.5%

Roserade will most likely try to sleep you, in which case your Lum will wake you up. Sludge Bomb does hurt, but you 2HKO Roserade with Extremespeed, and easily OHKO with either of your Fire moves.

Electrode
252 SpA Thunderbolt vs Arcanine: 36.6 - 43.4%
4 Atk Explosion vs Arcanine: 44.4 - 52.6%
Arcanine's Flare Blitz vs 0/0 Electrode: 100%
Arcanine's Extremespeed vs 0/0 Electrode: 48.7 - 57.5%

Arcanine will take very little from anything Electrode tries to throw at it - even if by some twist of fate it manages to get a Thunderbolt and an Explosion in, it won't KO. In return, you have a guaranteed OHKO with Flare Blitz, or a 2HKO on average with Extremespeed.

Honchkrow
Adamant 252 Atk Drill Peck / Sucker Punch vs Arcanine: 30.4 - 36.0%
Arcanine's Flare Blitz vs 4/0 Honckrow: 94.4 - 100%
Arcanine's Extremespeed vs 4/0 Honchkrow: 42.2 - 49.9%

Arcanine outdamages it easily, and OHKOs on average with Flare Blitz. Note that with the speed EVs it outspeeds Adamant Honchkrow, allowing Arcanine to go first with Extremespeed and make Sucker Punch fail.

Staraptor
Adamant 252 Atk Choice Band Brave Bird vs Arcanine: 66.7 - 78.3%
Overheat vs 4/0 Staraptor: 84.2 - 99.4%
Intimidated Extremespeed vs 4/0 Staraptor: 24.4 - 28.9%

Arcanine will live the strongest attack Staraptor can possibly throw at it (Adamant CB Giga Impact survival ftw =P) and can do big damage back with Overheat. Flare Blitz is not recommended as you have been Intimdated and so it won't KO, and if Arcanine has to take a CB Brave Bird first the recoil from Blitz can come close to KOing him. Overheat + Extremespeed will get rid of Staraptor.

Uxie
0 SpA Psychic vs Arcanine: 25.2 - 29.5%
Flare Blitz vs Bold 252/252 Uxie: 32.5 - 38.4%

Arcanine will outdamage Uxie, will not be affected by its Thunder Wave or Yawn, and can get Toxic on it to effectively destroy its ability as a wall.
-----

Despite its excellent ability on taking on opposing leads, the thing I like best about Arcanine is that it is not a use and dispose pokemon. With its great bulk it can switch into many things later on in the game too and threaten KOs back (even unaffected by Intimidate, Registeel fails to 2HKO with Earthquake), although some spin support is recommended, as despite its bulk, repeated switch ins on Stealth Rock plus Flare Blitz recoil can add up quite fast. It can easily revenge threatening sweepers such as Blaziken, Roserade, Gallade, Typhlosion, etc, with Extremespeed, and can be used as a great final death fodder to get an Intimdate on the opponent.

Like I said, it is one of the most reliable leads I have ever used =).
 
LR that Arcanine is freakin' annoying as hell!

Your Staraptor and Arcanine keep you in the game against teams like mine. With Cloyster as my physical wall its tough for me to send anything but Charizard against your Arcanine :P. Very good lead!

Should i post my Charizard here?
 
I suppose I'll reveal my anti-lead. Not particularly creative, but effective nonetheless.

Rotom @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
- Thunderbolt
- Shadow Ball
- Hidden Power Ground
- Trick

It doesn't do well against Roserade, but against most leads it does just fine. It outspeeds and OHKOs Crobat (assuming it doesn't carry a Focus Sash), and it wins against Froslass unless it has Shadow Ball, or it Destiny Bonds turn 1. It also is immune to Ambipom's Fake Out and kills Ambipom with Thunderbolt faster than Ambipom kills it with Payback. Uxie hates Shadow Ball or Trick (assuming it's not TrickScarf).
 
Whats Azu suppost to do to Froslass? They do have thunderbolt you know (sometimes)
Waterfall or Aqua Tail. Waterfall should do around 76% damage from the standard Encore set, which is a KO after SR, and Thunderbolt from a Timid 252 Special Attack Timid Froslass with take off around half of Azumarril's health. With a Sub up Azumarril KOs after SR without taking any damage.
 
@Legacy Raider: Great set. Arcanine is definitely underrated as a Pokemon in general, in particular its defensive potential with Intimidate. I've actually tried a variety of different spreads for my lead Arcanine, and am currently using a very bulky spread which helps the rest of my team more by being able to come in more often. For pure leading purposes though, your offensive spread is definitely the most efficient.

Some of your calcs are bit off though. Max defense Uxie takes nowhere near that much damage from Flare Blitz (38.4% max in fact). It's not even guaranteed to 3HKO with Leftovers taken into account, so Toxic is always the way to go there. It's going to get down Stealth Rock regardless, and Arcanine should always be backed up with a spinner anyway. Your calcs against Crobat are a little inflated too (did you take into account the HP EVs?), but it doesn't really affect your ability to 2HKO it.
 

Legacy Raider

sharpening his claws, slowly
is a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Ah, thanks for pointing those out. I'll edit them straightaway. I see what I did wrong - I accidentally left the Choice Band I was using for the Staraptor calcs on Arcanine while doing the Uxie calcs. Thanks for catching that =).

EDIT: To SHUCKLE MAN: Or Flare Blitz =P.
 

Caelum

qibz official stalker
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Legacy Raider said:
Thunder Fang can be used to hit water types with, but because of its very low power I wouldn't recommend it (it doesn't 2HKO Milotic or Slowbro, meaning it is pretty worthless).
Aside from Rest Milotic, Toxic should be more than enough to deal with bulky Waters.


Stealth Rock + Flare Blitz recoil (even if you have a spinner with Spiritomb / Mismagius everywhere it's not easy to spin anymore) will wear you down fast but it obviously works well as a lead.
 
SubPunch can be beaten by Protect/Blizard Alternation. Protect on the punch, Blizzard on the sub. However, I am not sure whether a Blizzard from a 252 Sp Attack Abomanasnow will break the sub :( How many Focus Punches can he take? And how many subs can Azu make if effected by both Toxic and Leech seed?
404 HP/196 SpD Azumarrill's subs are always broken by 252 SpA Abomasnow's Blizzard.
 
Usually, Azumarill will be slower and create the sub after getting hit by Blizzard. This is why I like Wood Hammer on mine.
Also LR, very cool set. Personally I always had the feeling that using SR weak pokes (mainly fire types) is pointless.. this set looks promising and I will definitely try it out.
 

Chou Toshio

Over9000
is an Artist Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Whats Azu suppost to do to Froslass? They do have thunderbolt you know (sometimes)
Glad you asked. Azum v. Froslass happens most often when Froslass comes in to take out Azum who has just set up on/defeated walrein. In which case, Azum will already be behind a substitute.

Froslass has 2 options
-Destiny Bond (most common response from my experience)
-Thunderbolt

Azum can of course, 1hko Froslass with Waterfall, but it has to worry about destiny bond.

Overall, the best option is to use Encore. If Froslass uses Destiny Bond, you can keep Focus Punching/Substituting until it runs out of Destiny Bond PP.

If they use Thunderbolt to destroy your sub, you can trap them into it with Encore, and give a Ground/Grass/Electric type on your own team a chance to set up. Also the next time you find yourself in the same situation in the match, you can just flat out waterfall for the kill as they thunderbolt.

I'm also pretty sure that on most froslass with low sp.ATK investment, you can survive the unboosted thunderbolt and just waterfall it to death in case of a true 1 v. 1 situation.
 
I will try that set Legacy Rider, it looks effective. I will post back if it's actually effective.
It is very effective. It really annoyed me in our battle, was going to use it, but didn't want to copy him, so I found a different anti-lead that can get all the common leads except for Arcanine...
 
My new Anti-Lead!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cloyster
@ Choice Band
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SAtk
Brave nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Ice Shard
- Avalanche
- Explosion
- Surf
---

Haha! The even more awsome(r) Anti-Lead that not only beats common leads it beats other Anti-Leads as well!

No damage calcs atm cause this is pure theorymon! But it looks good on paper.. no?
 

Erazor

✓ Just Doug It
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
Glad you asked. Azum v. Froslass happens most often when Froslass comes in to take out Azum who has just set up on/defeated walrein. In which case, Azum will already be behind a substitute.

Froslass has 2 options
-Destiny Bond (most common response from my experience)
-Thunderbolt

Azum can of course, 1hko Froslass with Waterfall, but it has to worry about destiny bond.

Overall, the best option is to use Encore. If Froslass uses Destiny Bond, you can keep Focus Punching/Substituting until it runs out of Destiny Bond PP.
I may have misunderstood you, but Focus Punch doesn't touch Froslass.
 

Caelum

qibz official stalker
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Smogon Discord Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
I may have misunderstood you, but Focus Punch doesn't touch Froslass.
It doesn't. He was saying that you stall out the low 8 PP of Destiny Bond once you Encore it with Focus Punch and then once it's PP is gone use Waterfall against it.
 
My new Anti-Lead!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cloyster
@ Choice Band/ Life Orb/ Expert Belt
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP/252 Atk/4 SAtk
Brave nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Ice Shard
- Avalanche/ Payback
- Explosion
- Surf
---
Now it appears that I'm bumping my set from a few posts up. It is not the case. I was informed that my set was inferior to other analysis because there was little to no thought put out there. Well, I assumed (when you assume you make an Ass out of you and me >.>), that it was self-explanatory but apparently not. So I'll try to make up for it.

Ice Shard- STABed Priority that hits hard against Staraptor and Crobat before they U-Turn out or foolishly attack him. Also hits Roserade Hard.

Ice Shard Vs...

Staraptor (0/4/0)- 51.13% - 60.45% Intimidated
>Staraptor's Close Combat vs Cloyster: 53.95% - 63.49%, Non- ChoiceBand
>>After defense drop Shard does 76.21% - 89.39%

Crobat (152/0/0)- 61.03% - 71.92%
>Crobat can't do shit back.

Roserade (152/0/0)- 94.98% - 111.71%
>Sleep + Leaf Storm, You have priority and I accidentally gave her 152 Hp in calc.

Honchkrow? (0/0/0)- 78.10% - 91.82%
>Choice Band, +Nature Superpower vs Cloyster... 82.89% - 97.37%.

Uxie (x/x/x)- Explode and be done with her.

Ambipom- 42.61% - 50.17%
> Life Orb, +Nature... Fake Out + Return = 60%(?) Calc was acting weird.

Electrode- Obvious 2HKO with Ice Shard

Arcanine- 2HKO with Surf
>Anti-Lead overheat does 40% at most.

Frosslass- Payback vs Lass 63.70% - 75.09%
-

All those calculations were with just ICE SHARD and Surf. Explosion will kill anything it doesn't resist and Avalanche is there to hit switches hard. And in fact Avalanche is hardly needed inserted Payback as an option.
 
I'm going off the Legacy Riders riders set as it seems to be "in" right now.

Edit:

I'm getting 93.09% - 109.54% off a no Special Attack investment Overheat. Well, can't win them all. Lol..
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top