This is a kind of minor thing, but there are currently 5 abilities that have no effect in battle: Honey Gather, Illuminate, Pickup, Run Away, and Stench. There's really no reason why they can't be given an effect. For example, Run Away could make it so you can always switch out (like Shed Shell), Illuminate could ignore evasion modifiers, etc. It just seems pointless to have abilities that do absolutely nothing in battle.
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Pokemon Black & White, aka Gen 5. Coming to Japan in Fall 2010.
- Thread starter Firestorm
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Right now any sort of an element, color, gemstone or a mineral that can be spelled by kids can be a legitimately sounding name for a pokemon game. If nintendo wanted to own all domains that would count as real-sounding, they'd have to buy quite a bit of them. Since that's not happening, why Opal and Amethyst and not - for example - Agate and Mercury, Copper and Carbon or Onyx and Jaspis ?
Note that I'm not by any means saying that gen 5 games will be called Opal and Amethyst, I'm saying that Nintendo bought it for some reason. To be quite honest, it's even unlikely, as domains appear to have been bought in 2002, while domain for platinum was bought in 2008. Since Nintendo doesn't do much long-term planning (GS Ball being a good example), chances of gen 5 being O/A are modest.
Simply because series is successful, it doesn't mean it's always going to stay the same (Advance Wars being a good example of that, but that's much smaller scale of success). But I agree that Nintendo is going to be milking Pokemon series until either the interest will die off (unlikely) or amount of pokemon will become overwhelming. Remembering typings, names and general idea of pokemon's best stats of ~800 pokes would be hard, and even assuming only 300 of them would be fully evolved forms, remembering possible movesets etc would be quite a feat, not to mention how complicated the game (and metagame) would become.
As for the double item idea - everything would hit extremely hard. There's not much that can take double Specs Latias Draco Meteor or not be revenge killed by double Band Scizor's BP etc etc. We're talking about the kind of power that lets (double LO Timid) Gengar 2hko a double Leftovers Blissey with SR and sand up with Focus Blast.
I have to disagree and say that it is on par with those two as a type.
Dragon appears to have greater dominance because a few of its members have stats that put them at the pinnacle of the game (Salamence, Garchomp, Lati@s), but in reality modestly built dragons like Flygon and Kingdra are good, but hardly dominant forces in the meta.
Steel similarly, has 2 600 BST members in OU, but the main reason is obvious-- as a resistance typing, it is unparalleled, which makes them incredible specific tanks or walls.
Water on the other hand, while not bragging members with the same level of BST, can brag on sheer numbers-- there are simply more species of water pokemon than almost any other type. Nearly a 5th of the OU species are water species, and while none have anything near a suspect position, as a collective, Gyarados/Starmie/Swampert/Suicune/Vaporeon/Tentacruel have a huge influence on how the game is played. Still others like Milotic or Feraligator would have an incredible presence if they weren't out-classed by their fellow water types.
Also while not bragging the broad range of resistances, the fact that their weaknesses are so hard to exploit makes them incredible "general tanks," rather than specifics or walls. They can't just switch in and counter certain pokes 100%, but they can fill in as a check for almost everything.
Can't really agree with this one either. Ice is simply an awesome offensive type, period. Dragon or no. Even if dragons were not around, ice would still be an awesome secondary attacking type.
There are primary attacking types, and then there are secondary ones. In a secondary attacking type, you want dependability and super effective hits. Ice Beam is one of the best possible ones you could have on both fronts.
In a primary attack, what you want is neutrality, and Dragon may be the only type that can contest (or claim a higher position) for that title with water.
On the same note, have you looked at the type chart? Steel type is simply incredible in resistances, it is the greatest typing for specific tanks or walls. Steels would be great regardless of dragon's presence, if only because of their ability to deal with ice and rock, not to mention a crop of others.
I said that these are terrible primary attacking types, and they are. Grass is resisted by 7 types. Electric is resisted by 3 and immuned by 1. While it's certainly not bad (Meh, as I said), types like electric, ground and fighting that have immune opponents cannot lay claim to the top primary attacking types.
Perhaps the biggest problem is a lack of good secondary type attacks. Grass' best secondary's are fire or ice, but neither provides perfect coverage and neither is widely available to grass types in anything outside hidden power (couples with grass CRAP primary type, guh . . .). Electric only really merges well with ice, but again, almost none of them get any ice attack more powerful than hidden power (or the still weak ice-punch for electivire).
I mentioned that Outrage and Draco Meteor are what make offensive dragons tick. Defensively though, while Dragon looks impressive on paper, in practice only Latias can really abuse those resistances.
Salamence and Dragonite are SR weak, neutral to electric and 4x weak to Ice. While they have the resistances/immunities to make good switch ins and serve as offensive powerhouses, they don't have the same staying power as bulky waters in terms of holes in their defenses. Flygon too, can brag to have a really nice typing for resistances. But in both the case of Dragon/Flying and Dragon/Ground, it's the secondary type that's really doing the work. Flygon's best point is its resistances to rock and electric, which comes from its ground type, and its ground immunity from its ability. Salamence and Dragonite too, depend mostly on their fighting resistance and ground immunity, which again comes from their flying type.
Kingdra, defensively, acts much more like a bulky water than like a dragon type. Latias is the only pokemon really able to use Dragon's nice resistances, so I'd hardly declare dragon as an over-powering defensive type based just on latias.
I also mentioned that a lack of base power (physical) or base stats (special) is what kept water back offensively (keep in mind that hydro pump has the same base power as outrage).
You don't NEED resistances to do water's job-- general tank. Even so, water resists Ice, one of the best secondary offensive types, and Water, one of the best primary types, not to mention Steel, which is becoming more and more important as steels begin to discover the power of their once over looked STAB (albeit a stab backed by Technician and/or ridiculous offensive stats).
You also don't need to make super effective hits as a primary attacking type, neutrality is the most important as STAB will carry you through. Dragon and Water both prove this principle. I mentioned that the incredible second type of Ice Beam, and its synergy with STAB Water is part of water's strength.
Offensively speaking, let me put it this way-- if Infernape were a Water/Fighting pokemon with a 140 base power water attack (Water Type Dracor Meteor/Overheat style), it would be an even more incredible offensive pokemon.
Ultimately though, I would really hate to see changes made to the type chart. I don't think that's the best way to handle things, nor do I think that all types should be built even. I just would like to see some really good electric/grass pokemon made in order to make dealing with water easier. This is by no means though, an easy feat since the main potential candidate, Grass, is resisted by 7 types, weak to 5 and also weak to ice.
In other words, grass has always been a crappy answer to water and a crappy type overall. The main reason so many top UU pokes are grass is because those pokemon that were built to be good couldn't make it in OU, because grass kinda sucks. Worse off, ironically possibly the best secondary type for both grass and electric, is water-- which just water even more impressive.
I guess I want some REALLY KICK ASS Grass/Electric types-- 600 BSTs, ridiculous abilities like Huge Power or Magic Guard, do what it takes to put these guys on a more reliable platform.
I can summarize/illustrate the problem with water pokes with 1 example:
I can bring in Celebi to stop your Suicune, but you can switch in basically ANYTHING on Grass Knot, and I will have essentially wasted my time.
What we need, is for "celebi" (or insert newly made grass type) to switch in, and attack with a Power Whip coming from CB Huge Power 100 base ATK, because that's the only way Grass Types can actually hurt things in a meta where 7 types and the vast majority of OU resists their stab 2-4x.
How about a nerfed version of the two items idea - one item, and one berry.
I've also thought of a great non-competitive idea. If we have a fully 3d game engine, and they create a 'complete' world with no gaps between routes, then fully interactive fly. Take off and land anywhere. Might want an autopilot function mind...
I've also thought of a great non-competitive idea. If we have a fully 3d game engine, and they create a 'complete' world with no gaps between routes, then fully interactive fly. Take off and land anywhere. Might want an autopilot function mind...
Wouldn't that require a whole new system and a way to fit such a large game(as in gigabytes) onto a disc or something? I don't think we have that technology now, but around the 7th or 8th Gen, that'll probably happen. :)
You can make mistakes in 6v6 and win because you have the ability to use your skill and strategy.
3v3 means hax is much more likely to lose you the entire game without strategy ever getting involved.
Really? Well I know next to nothing about programming so I can't disagree with you. That would be very disappointing though, if such an implementation was prohibitive. As for brokenness, you could say that the likes of Pure Power and Simple are 'broken' abilities, but nobody in the right mind believes that the Pokemon possessing these abilities are broken. The same would apply for Pokemon like Pelipper. Wobbuffet? Well it does seem that Gamefreak do intentionally break a Pokemon every once in a while.
I have always liked the idea of Illuminate allowing non-contact moves to bypass Substitute and Protect, whilst Keen Eye should be upgraded to ignore Evasion, same with Hyper Cutter and Defense. Pickup could give the Pokemon a 1 in 3 chance of picking up a previously discarded item in battle (on either side) at the end of every turn, should no item be already held. Stench could be a 20% chance of making the opponent flinch when they try to use a contact move, sort of like a pseudo-Sand Veil. No idea as to how Honey Gather could have competitive use.
Number one change should be that Pokemon can learn all of the moves they can learn. Or at least have 10 move slots. But they can only take four into battle. This prevents you from having to raise three different Salamences because you don't know which third attack will be best on a DD set, and it will help with not having to lug around HM Slaves. They should do the same thing with abilities, not that many mon have two good abilities, but meh.
I didn't want to respond to this, but I have to. That defeats the point of pokemon, and gamefreak would never do that. Some Pokemon would literally have no counters if that were the case
Yes, because you have to choose your lead before every battle. i.e. there would probably be a "set" option if that is the case, so that you do not need to reselect it before each battle.
I was going to say that they would handle the 10 move per pokemon / 4 moves per battle mechanic much like how RPG handles equipment or how Paper Mario handles their badges but Zarator beat me to the punch.
Hello. After a lengthy discussion among Moderators we decided this thread is pretty much harmless and speculation is not a terrible thing.
However, saying it's not a terrible thing does not mean we're looking for a flood of one line posts saying "omg ice dragon legendary!!! plzzz!" Instead we would like to see posts that discuss possible additions in Generation Five (elaborate too!) and potential implications on the metagame. Also, news on the game is always welcome.
As an example, Naxte's post that's linked in the first post is a great. Another good post is ChouToshio's - you can definitely tell it took more effort than posting "whoa ice!!"
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To get us started, here are my thoughts (at the moment!):
New Entry Hazards: Things like Flame (burn) / Paralysis / Ice entry hazards would obviously have a huge impact on the metagame. I would think that they, especially status inducing ones, would either have to be somewhat nerfed or distributed to only a select few Pokemon (i.e. a slug like Magcargo could not spit out spikes or anything). They could nerf it by only working X% of the time or requiring a specific number of layers.
Having new entry hazards in general would make for more variety in Stall, especially in UU where grounded Poison types are common. Auto-burn/paralysis entry hazards would make offensive teams MUCH harder to use effectively unless there were several types immune to the hazard (or common Pokemon that absorb them). For example, Water, Steel, Flying/Levitating, Fire, and Ice Pokemon could be immune to the Burn Spikes (I'm just spitballing here so if I said a type that doesn't totally make sense to someone I apologize).
This is just a starting point for my thoughts. I'm one of those people who gets a ton of ideas to go on and on about but I don't have the time atm x)
Remember to keep this thread intelligent! I, along with other mods like Zerowing will be patrolling this thread as much as we can!
However, saying it's not a terrible thing does not mean we're looking for a flood of one line posts saying "omg ice dragon legendary!!! plzzz!" Instead we would like to see posts that discuss possible additions in Generation Five (elaborate too!) and potential implications on the metagame. Also, news on the game is always welcome.
As an example, Naxte's post that's linked in the first post is a great. Another good post is ChouToshio's - you can definitely tell it took more effort than posting "whoa ice!!"
----------------
To get us started, here are my thoughts (at the moment!):
New Entry Hazards: Things like Flame (burn) / Paralysis / Ice entry hazards would obviously have a huge impact on the metagame. I would think that they, especially status inducing ones, would either have to be somewhat nerfed or distributed to only a select few Pokemon (i.e. a slug like Magcargo could not spit out spikes or anything). They could nerf it by only working X% of the time or requiring a specific number of layers.
Having new entry hazards in general would make for more variety in Stall, especially in UU where grounded Poison types are common. Auto-burn/paralysis entry hazards would make offensive teams MUCH harder to use effectively unless there were several types immune to the hazard (or common Pokemon that absorb them). For example, Water, Steel, Flying/Levitating, Fire, and Ice Pokemon could be immune to the Burn Spikes (I'm just spitballing here so if I said a type that doesn't totally make sense to someone I apologize).
This is just a starting point for my thoughts. I'm one of those people who gets a ton of ideas to go on and on about but I don't have the time atm x)
Remember to keep this thread intelligent! I, along with other mods like Zerowing will be patrolling this thread as much as we can!
Actually, no, they shouldn't. That doesn't happen in real life, either. Maaaaybe Ice types, but that's also far fetched.
I do agree with everything else you said, though!
New entry hazards, especially the status inducing ones, has been long discussed.
To really maintain the balance, we're going to need more Rapid Spinners, and probably an alternative to Rapid Spin (ie; Defog actually removing hazards from the USERS side). We have very few options right now.
I'm hoping for another 'upheaval' of the titles, and not just additional moves/hazards. It might go against what we cherish as a metagame of numbers and percentages, but I think have battles as more of a chess match/tactics game '32x32 battle fields, fast Pokemon move more tiles in one turn, etc', would be a fantastic move for a main game in the series.
To really maintain the balance, we're going to need more Rapid Spinners, and probably an alternative to Rapid Spin (ie; Defog actually removing hazards from the USERS side). We have very few options right now.
I'm hoping for another 'upheaval' of the titles, and not just additional moves/hazards. It might go against what we cherish as a metagame of numbers and percentages, but I think have battles as more of a chess match/tactics game '32x32 battle fields, fast Pokemon move more tiles in one turn, etc', would be a fantastic move for a main game in the series.
Status-spikes would be interesting; how would they interact in multiples? What if you put up two layers of Toxic Spikes, and then a layer of Burn Spikes? What would the defending pokemon get? A random one of the two?
Having the movement grid system (like the tactical RPGs, FFT/FFTA, Fire Emblem, etc.) would be really interesting, but I don't think that's the Game Freak way. It would be another developer who did something like that.
Having the movement grid system (like the tactical RPGs, FFT/FFTA, Fire Emblem, etc.) would be really interesting, but I don't think that's the Game Freak way. It would be another developer who did something like that.
So what EvilMario is essentially saying is that he would like to see a pokemon game that followed any of the final fantasy tactics games or fire emblem play style? I was actually considering developing this into a flash game where you could battle other people. It would certainly be very cool to see a similar idea come out of gamefreak. Even if it doesn't....I suppose I can just continue on my own lol.
On a serious note I would love to see the introduction of a new typing, not that I have any clue what is really left to create. I feel like any new pokemon that will be introduced will be a new copy pasta fire/grass/water starter along with a bird and a rodent followed by a ghost or two coupled with a bunch of pokemon types that havent been combined yet.
On a serious note I would love to see the introduction of a new typing, not that I have any clue what is really left to create. I feel like any new pokemon that will be introduced will be a new copy pasta fire/grass/water starter along with a bird and a rodent followed by a ghost or two coupled with a bunch of pokemon types that havent been combined yet.
While the idea of new entry hazards appearing in Gen 5 is possible, I can GameFreak goofing up slightly when it comes to balancing said hazards, especially type dependent entry hazards like Stealth Rock. Let imagine for a second that GameFreak decided to make a Ice type version of Stealth Rock in Gen 5, what are the odds of them making it so that they're can be only one Stealth Rock-like entry hazard on the field at a time?
A bit off-topic but which Pokemon type would have the most impact to the metagame as a type dependent entry hazard other than Rock or Ice?
I can imagine GameFreak making Defog remove entry hazards on both side of the field just to mess with us, but hey it would beat how Defog only get rid of entry hazards on your opponent side of the field.
A bit off-topic but which Pokemon type would have the most impact to the metagame as a type dependent entry hazard other than Rock or Ice?
stealth static - boy would kyogre get nerfed
I also want to see stealth flame, stealth bush, and stealth darkness
Anywhoo, I expect a skarmory prevo in gen 5. Mantine and skarm have always been opposites of each other, and matine got a prevolution, why not skarm.
And please, no knew TMs. I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. I guess they could add a few more, but if they added another 50...things would get hectic
I also want to see stealth flame, stealth bush, and stealth darkness
Anywhoo, I expect a skarmory prevo in gen 5. Mantine and skarm have always been opposites of each other, and matine got a prevolution, why not skarm.
And please, no knew TMs. I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet. I guess they could add a few more, but if they added another 50...things would get hectic
Stealth static would be a huge game changer, as their are a large number of water pokemon. However, it occurs to me that stealth dragon (or whatever) would deal neutral damage almost across the field, and hurt dragons some more.
I'm thinking that there will be some major change to the battle system, akin to the phy/special split, but I'm just not seeing it.
I'm thinking that there will be some major change to the battle system, akin to the phy/special split, but I'm just not seeing it.
I don't think this is a good idea. Seeing as how physical sweepers will have to go right next to the opposing Pmon to attack. While special sweepers can stay back. If you could imagine a physical attacker with say 100 base speed (Salamence) verse a 110 base speed (Gengar). The gengar could simply run as far as possible while staying in attack range, while the Salamence can never get close enough to attack. Of course this could be limited by the range of special attacks, but it could get too complicated.
Anyway I'm hoping for a doubles battle in the Elite 4, and maybe elite 4 members utilizing two types instead of one, although that seems unlikely.
Some way to improve gameplay would be nice, after 4 games of pretty much the same game coming out (When looked at by the uncompetitive player), i think they need something fresh.
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