Lugia (Sleeping Beauty)

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http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/lugia

[SET]
Name: Sleeping Beauty
Move1: Calm Mind
Move2: Rest
Move3: Sleep Talk
Move4: Ice Beam
Item: Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 204 Spe
Nature: Bold


Why this set should be on Smogon:
  • No other Lugia set like it
  • Has better defensive stats than Crocune
  • Outspeeds Groudon and can 2HKO with +2 Aeroblast (And can survive a Stone Edge from Rock Polish variants
  • Walls most Dialga and can 2HKO with +6 Aeroblast
EVs:
  • To outspeed Timid Kyogre and have max durability
Team Options:
  • A NP Darkrai counter (It has Sleep Talk for other versions)
  • A Mewtwo lure (Taunt is annoying)
  • Toxic Spikes support is great
Counters:
  • As mentioned above, Nasty Plot Darkrai can come in before it's too late (Calm Mind)
  • Anything with taunt
  • Wobbufett's Encore is truely horrible
  • A Blissey lure.
Thanks in advance!
 
I don't really play Ubers, but I know Aeroblast has way too little PP for a Calm Mind RestTalk set, even with Sleep Talk "sort of" making up for it.
 
Yeah kokoloko is correct. Aeroblast has way to little PP. Keep in mind that Pressure is a common ability in ubers.
 
With the majority of Pokémon in Ubers having pressure, your Aeroblast will be gone before you know it.
 
Flying moves have horrible coverage, and are resisted by steels, a common type in the uber metagame (If I recall). I would switch aeroblast for another move.
 
Why would I use Rest and incapacitate myself for 2 turns when I can easily just use Roost, while simultaneously removing Lugia's weaknesses to Electric-, Ice, and Rock-type attacks and freeing up another moveslot for a coverage move? You may also dodge status, but Lugia can use Safeguard with its nice 110 Speed if you really hate status. Low PP moves are generally bad to use on a mono-attacker, what happens if you get Taunted? You now have 8 (or 4 if its something with Pressure, like Mewtwo!) before you start using Struggle. This set also loses to pretty much every other CMer, which the other CM set can get around by using Whirlwind to Phaze them out, but you can't because then you wouldn't have an attacking move. Remember people, Sleep Talk has its own PP and doesn't use the PP of the move chosen. Reguardless, you still become useless when Taunted, and it means they have to actually attack you for you to Rest and use your move, when they can just set up on you...I highly doubt this is thought out, or even used once, seeing as its EVs add up to 512...

edit: @the poster above me, Flying is not actually a bad STAB, seeing as 11 other types are walled by Steels too. The thing keeping Flying back is that good Flying moves are hard to come by on common Pokemon. Brave Bird is probably the only really good one, (Air Slash has 5 more power then HP Flying, but has a nice flinch rate) and not many Pokemon get it. Aeroblast is only learned by Lugia, so...
 
Common? Forretress and Scizor and Dialga.

Only Dialga resists Flying, who apparently is 2HKOed at +6.

But, yeah, not enough PP to work.
 
Running a single attack with only 8 PP is suicide in Ubers with all the Pressure users running around. This Lugia set is actually set up bait to the things its meant to counter, such as Rayquaza, Garchomp, and Groudon. Its also screwed by Wobb and anything with Taunt and pretty much anything that can take a hit from Lugia's weak Aeroblast and 2HKO back. There is also no reason to run RestTalk when Lugia gets Roost and Safeguard so you don't have to rely on the horribly unreliable Sleep Talk to pick the right moves. (Except maybe to help beat Blissey)

I'm still going to test it, but right now I'm not thinking this set is going to do too well.
 
I myself will test a more offensive version of this set tomarrow. I still don't expect this set to do well though, so I would really like some logs of your experience with this set.
 
Also something important to remember:

IF AEROBLAST HAS 0 PP IT CANNOT BE CHOSEN BY SLEEP TALK.

So yeah, you can't just run out of Aeroblast PP and then use ReSTalking as a fallback.
 
Like almost everyone has said, Aeroblast as your sole attacking move isn't a good idea, seeing as Pressure is a common ability in Ubers. I don't think that this set can really do well.
 
Also something important to remember:

IF AEROBLAST HAS 0 PP IT CANNOT BE CHOSEN BY SLEEP TALK.

So yeah, you can't just run out of Aeroblast PP and then use ReSTalking as a fallback.

This is actually false. I just tested this on Soul Silver, and Giratina Sleep Talked both Calm Mind and Dragon Pulse despite both having 0 PP. Wild Eep tested this with a Mewtwo that had Sleep Talk and Blizzard as well on Diamond, and he can confirm the same. The descrption on site is wrong.

Update: I also tested this in a link battle, and 0PP moves were still chosen.
 
This is actually false. I just tested this on Soul Silver, and Giratina Sleep Talked both Calm Mind and Dragon Pulse despite both having 0 PP. Wild Eep tested this with a Mewtwo that had Sleep Talk and Blizzard as well on Diamond, and he can confirm the same. The descrption on site is wrong.

Update: I also tested this in a link battle, and 0PP moves were still chosen.

In that case, the Smogon page is wrong and should be updated.
 
Ok with the PP problem, Darkrai completely walls Psychic. So Ice Beam was a suggestion, which beats Rayquaza, Garchomp, Salamence, and Shaymin-S for 400% damage. I'll add Ice Beam instead.

Theorymoon: My Shoddy is being really weird (When it loads, it doesn't respond or something.) I'm trying to fix it and I will provide logs as soon as I can, sorry for that.
 
I highly doubt you tested this, but I'm going to give you the benifit of the doubt and say you typoed your EVs, count them please.

edit: Ok most of these set points don't make sense


No other Lugia set like it

There is a CM Lugia set with reliable recovery, and isn't setup bait for every single CMer possible.

Has better defensive stats than Crocune

What the hell?? Its an Uber how is this relevant at all? The Standard CM Lugia has better defenses too.

Outspeeds Groudon and can 2HKO with +2 Aeroblast (And can survive a Stone Edge from Rock Polish variants

Ok, this means it comes in and you are at +1. You CM again you get hit with Stone Edge for 50%+, now you have to either rest or do around 50% to it, take your pick. This means you will die if both of the subsequent Stone Edges hit, unless you Sleep Talk an Aeroblast. Also, you do 38.1% - 45.3% to specially defensive Groudon at +2 with Aeroblast, so...FInally, a lot of Groudons carry Roar, so have fun needing +4 to OHKO with even Ice Beam.

Walls most Dialga and can 2HKO with +6 Aeroblast

What? The support Dialga takes a max of 51%, meaning as long as it doesn't switch into an attack it will always take 2 Aeroblasts with the help of Leftovers. You do 34.9% - 41.3% to Bulk Up Dialga at +6. Meaning as long as it doesn't switch in when you have a substantial amount of CMs, you are dead. Also keep in mind, if it does switch in when you are +6 this is what will happen(assuming it doesn't switch into an attack)

turn1: You use Aeroblast, doesn't matter what it uses
turn2: You use Aeroblast, it uses Rest
turn3: You use Aeroblast, it uses Sleep Talk, doesn't matter what it Sleep Talks
turn4: You use Aeroblast, you are now out of PP, and have no attacking moves. (edit: I guess you can still choose it via sleep talk, but what if they don't attack and continue to use Bulk Up?)

Even if you change the move, you do 53% - 62.9% with +6 Ice Beam, so as long as it doesn't wait till you are +6 to switch in, you are done, seeing as +1 Outrage always 2HKOes, meaning you can't heal fast enough with Rest.

To outspeed Timid Kyogre and have max durability
Well first off (at the time of this post) you didn't count your EVs, so it leads to me doubting you tested this. Second, you should aim to outspeed Garchomp...so...

A NP Darkrai counter (It has Sleep Talk for other versions)

LOL ok lemme just find my NP Darkrai counter. And fyi, you are still 2HKOed even at +2 from a nonboosted Dark Pulse. (please don't say primeape, its worthless in every other aspect)

A Mewtwo lure (Taunt is annoying)

Huh? Ok you need a lure to probably one of the most versatile Pokemon in the game...

Toxic Spikes support is great

CM Lugia does better with Tspikes then this set due to the fact it can restore 150% in 3 turns rather then this sets 100% over 3 turns, while having the ability to shed a large portion of its weaknesses, and being able to use screens.

Also, for the Counters section, you forgot the following Pokemon(Since you switched to Ice Beam, these calcs are for Ice Beam):

Blissey (You do 32.4% - 38.1% at +6)

Latias (when you are both at +6 it takes 24.3% - 29.2% from Ice Beam)

Kyogre (You do 32.5% - 38.3% max at +6 to 4/0 Kyogre, although given it can't do much to you back unless it has CM as well, but its not uncommon for it to have CM)

Ho-Oh: always 2HKOes you with Sacred Fire, and a +1 Ice Beam does 19.1% - 22.5%, so you can barely 2HKO it with SR if it has Life Orb and attacks you, that is, if it doesn't decide to Roost before demolishing you.

Manaphy: really any Manaphy variants with Ice Beam with lol at you.

Wobbuffet: You say this Lugia hates Encore, which is true, but you fail to mention you can't OHKO it at +6 with Ice Beam or Aeroblast.

Heatran: Taunts you, and then lols hard at your Ice Beams, which by the way, you need +2 to always outdo Leftovers with. Then can procede to Roar you away.

Any Trick Scarfer: Jirachi, Metagross, Mewtwo, Darkrai, you get the picture.

Skarmory: If you don't have SR up, you can't even KO it at +6(with Ice Beam)!!!!! If you do have SR, you need +5, meaning it can switch in, set up 3 layers of Spikes, then Whirlwind you out as you get your 5th.

Tyranitar: Lets put it this way, without SR, you have a 3.2% chance to OHKO 0/0 neutral Tyranitar in rain, with Ice Beam. You can't even 2HKO the 252/216 Careful in Sandstorm at +6, while the aforementioned Tyranitar with Choice Band does 66.8% - 79.3% to you.

Really, I could go on, but I think you get the point. Sorry, but I just don't think this set is good.
 
Everyone already said this, but...


This may be able to dump status, however, with Ice Beam being it's only attacking move, it can only hit a small portion of ubers. Also, Roost is much better as you get to choose 2 attacking, or supportng move. This is mainly set up bait for BU Dialga and SD Lucario.
 
This set gets beaten by too much stuff and isn't powerful enough. It doesn't really a useful niche over the other sets and it requires counters for stuff you cannot counter.

firecape summed up the rest of my thoughts nicely.

QC REJECTED(1/3)
 
firecape outlined the problems with the set very well, and at the risk of looking like a fool for not really writing anything here...

QC REJECTED (2/3)
 
You know, I could probably just run Safeguard on the standard Timid Lugia set and it would actually have more effect than this one. Safeguard protects Lugia (and the rest of the team, which is a huge plus) from status while Lugia can roost off and take less damage from Super Effective attacks against Flying. This set can't even do those things and recovery is less efficient. Not to mention Bold 252 HP/52 Def/204 Spe is really outdated in this current metagame.
 
Calm Mind Lugia simply cannot work effectively with just one move. It's still completely stuck against Blissey and Bulk Up Dialga, and Ice Beam's PP, while an improvement from Aeroblast's, is still quite low. Ice Beam is also very weak without several boosts, which means this Lugia powers up very slowly.

As my first act on Ubers QC, QC REJECTED (3/3).
 
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