Eviolite

I still say you are sort of snubbing Onix for play in NU. :/

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Well... I'm not saying that I'm snubbing Onix from NU. Heck, defenses are impressive (with Stone + Sandstorm 272 HP, 534 Def, 465 SpD with Max HP/Max SpD Positive), however the problem here is... this pathetic base attack. Even after 2-3 curses it can't threaten fly. 45 base Attack just doesn't cut it. If it has at least 60-70 base Atk, then history would be different.

i think the best candidate for this are misdreveus (yeah GSC Trapper ftw)

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Well, I see one more interesting set for Misdreavus in future NU/UU.

'Bulky Nasty Plotter'
Misdreavus @ Pre-Evolution Stone
Nature: Timid Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 36 / 216 Speed
~ Pain Split
~ Nasty Plot
~ Shadow Ball
~ Thunderbolt

Obviously this set hates status, so avoid it at any cost. Pain Split is perfect move, as you need recover for this. 216 Speed is enough to outspeed positive 80's. This guy reaches 324 HP/234/309 defenses which is pretty solid. On special side this guy has similar bulk to Max HP Milotic, which is nice and on physical misses a bit against Defensive Blastoise. Strategy is simple - just try to Nasty Plot to +6 and sweep. It's quite funny thing that standard 84 Atk EVs Pursuit on Scarf Houndoom deals... 27.78% -> 33.33% when you don't switch out, so you may even set-up on it. Anyway, on paper looks solid.

Just tested the item.
For unevolved Pokémon that can evolve (e.g. Munchlax, Gligar, Porygon), it boosts both defenses by 50%.
For middle-stage Pokémon (e.g. Porygon2, Dusclops, Chansey), it boosts them only by 30%.
For unevolved Pokémon that don't evolve (e.g. Heracross, Dunsparce, Suicune), it has no effect.

EDIT: It would be great for a few more people to test, though. I might be wrong with those numbers (I'm pretty certain, though).

Wichu said:

Just tested the item.
For unevolved Pokémon that can evolve (e.g. Munchlax, Gligar, Porygon), it boosts both defenses by 50%.
For middle-stage Pokémon (e.g. Porygon2, Dusclops, Chansey), it boosts them only by 30%.

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If this is right--well, I already said it before. Perish Song Misdreavus is going to be beyond ridiculous against stall teams, especially under screens, and Porygon2 and Dusclops are going to be great too. 30% is more than good enough for those latter two. Dusknoir absolutely has to take advantage of attacking moves now or else it's outclassed by its own pre-evolution. Edit: Magneton might get a boost here too since it can switch in a lot more now and does have that small Speed advantage over Magnezone, but I wouldn't put it in the same class as those other two.


Edit 2: Better yet with 50% across the board!

Hmmm... if that's the case, I'll always use that on Scyther.

I mean, i beleive that with this item it gets, like, 300 defenses on both sides. That's HUGE for a sweeper.

Wichu said:

Just tested the item.
For unevolved Pokémon that can evolve (e.g. Munchlax, Gligar, Porygon), it boosts both defenses by 50%.
For middle-stage Pokémon (e.g. Porygon2, Dusclops, Chansey), it boosts them only by 30%.
For unevolved Pokémon that don't evolve (e.g. Heracross, Dunsparce, Suicune), it has no effect.

EDIT: It would be great for a few more people to test, though. I might be wrong with those numbers (I'm pretty certain, though).

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Post some damage calcs in the research thread!

M BLADE said:

And for pokes that only evolve once?

Example: Scyther.

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He already mentioned Gligar and Munchlax get the 50% boost.

Wichu said:

Just tested the item.
For unevolved Pokémon that can evolve (e.g. Munchlax, Gligar, Porygon), it boosts both defenses by 50%.
For middle-stage Pokémon (e.g. Porygon2, Dusclops, Chansey), it boosts them only by 30%.
For unevolved Pokémon that don't evolve (e.g. Heracross, Dunsparce, Suicune), it has no effect.

EDIT: It would be great for a few more people to test, though. I might be wrong with those numbers (I'm pretty certain, though).

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Thats pretty cool. Think of all the dumb gimmicks that are now ALMOST viable!

By the way, I double-checked the damage calculations, and it turns out I made a mistake. The 1.5x boost applies to all NFE Pokémon, including middle-stage ones.

Pre-Evolution Stone Shell Break Clamperl, anyone?

would this work on normal rotom? I feel like it wouldn't since the other versions are just considered forms but it would essentially mean that the ghost electric typing that people used for spin blocking and such could retain it's usefulness.

Just speculating

I have waited fifteen years for Gloom to be better than Vileplume by any small margin. If it really gets 1.5x defenses, that's a lot better than "small." May not get aromatherapy but does cause random flinching now with stench...and all the same status attacks that I use Vileplume for anyway.

And my similarly beloved Venonat could be amazing as a baton passer with much bigger defenses than Venomoth!

Could Lickilicky be useless now, with Lickitung potentially shrugging off waaaaay more damage?

The number of Pokemon who are going to warrant separate strategy writeups just skyrocketed. Jesus.

This is pretty awesome! I don't think it'll have a massive impact in OU, but it really does create so many more viable Pokemon in the lower usage tiers!

Does this item work on Male Combee and Spiky-Earred Pichu(If the latter is even obtainable in B/W)? Even if they technically can't evolve any further?

I'm 99% sure the answer is yes, but I'd prefer a 100% confirmation.

Scythemantis said:

I have waited fifteen years for Gloom to be better than Vileplume by any small margin. If it really gets 1.5x defenses, that's a lot better than "small." May not get aromatherapy but does cause random flinching now with stench...and all the same status attacks that I use Vileplume for anyway.

And my similarly beloved Venonat could be amazing as a baton passer with much bigger defenses than Venomoth!

Could Lickilicky be useless now, with Lickitung potentially shrugging off waaaaay more damage?

The number of Pokemon who are going to warrant separate strategy writeups just skyrocketed. Jesus.

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I don't think this will make some of the fully-evolved Pokemon useless, like if we use your Lickitung example, people might use defensive Lickitung, but they'll also use Choice Band Lickilicky.

Oh God yes. Wish passing Lickitung > Blissey.

Wichu said:

By the way, I double-checked the damage calculations, and it turns out I made a mistake. The 1.5x boost applies to all NFE Pokémon, including middle-stage ones.

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Wow, this is going to be amazing. If you thought there was diversity before...

Epic Cherubi said:

Oh God yes. Wish passing Lickitung > Blissey.

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lol

Anyway another, Dusclops now out classes Dusknoir and Desukan (New Ghost) in every way except offense. I never dreamed that just 1 thing to effect the entire metagame enough to make evos worse than their prevos.

HAIL TO YOUR NEW SPIN BLOCKER!

YES. Now I can play Scyther and Electabuzz to a better degree. lolz

M BLADE said:

Hmmm... if that's the case, I'll always use that on Scyther.

I mean, i beleive that with this item it gets, like, 300 defenses on both sides. That's HUGE for a sweeper.

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294 on both (assuming no EVs) is basically like having base 129 defenses, so yeah, that's pretty enormous despite its weaknesses.

As far as LC is concerned, this is pretty cool for defensive Pokemon. It generally isn't much of a difference, but if you have an HP stat of above 20, it is more beneficial to run this stone that to use Oran Berry. That means... pretty much any Pokemon that runs an Oran Berry normally. Especially good for Pokemon had those borderline good defensive stats before (that had recovery) like Slowpoke.

EDIT- In any case, a major part of defensive Pokmon is being able to deal damage back in return. I remember when Chansey was first allowed in UU, one of the complaints about it was that it had trouble dealing good damage to foes. I quit UU a few weeks later, so I don't know if that is still the accepted opinion, but food for thought I guess.

Elevator Music said:

As far as LC is concerned, this is pretty cool for defensive Pokemon. It generally isn't much of a difference, but if you have an HP stat of above 20, it is more beneficial to run this stone that to use Oran Berry. That means... pretty much any Pokemon that runs an Oran Berry normally. Especially good for Pokemon had those borderline good defensive stats before (that had recovery) like Slowpoke.

EDIT- In any case, a major part of defensive Pokmon is being able to deal damage back in return. I remember when Chansey was first allowed in UU, one of the complaints about it was that it had trouble dealing good damage to foes. I quit UU a few weeks later, so I don't know if that is still the accepted opinion, but food for thought I guess.

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Um...

I don't think this will see much use in the Little Cup. I think it will get ban from the little cup. Just saying...

CTNC said:

Um...

I don't think this will see much use in the Little Cup. I think it will get ban from the little cup. Just saying...

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It's not like only Pokemon in Little Cup gets it. All of them benefit from it.

(also speculating on the banning of items\pokemon is banned)

From what I heard this isn't a hold item, though. It's an item you use up, and the pokemon can still hold something.

It would probably be too big an advantage in LC unless literally EVERYTHING used it, in which case, it would simply make LC matches much, much longer...which might be more fun, really.

What it'll really do is make a lot of pokemon viable for the same tiers as their evolutions, and possibly bump a couple of them higher.

Oh, crap....VIGOROTH?

Scythemantis said:

From what I heard this isn't a hold item, though. It's an item you use up, and the pokemon can still hold something.

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Wait, what? Source?

That sounds too good to be true.

Scythemantis said:

From what I heard this isn't a hold item, though. It's an item you use up, and the pokemon can still hold something.

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It is very much a hold item that does not get used up, not something like X Attack. I'm pretty sure Wichu would have known whether or not it was a hold item when he was testing it.