CAP 12 CAP 1 - Part 4 - (Stat Spread Submissions)

Stats can make or break a Pokemon, and from here on in our decisions will be immensely significant to how strong or weak CAP1 will be relative to OU.

Submit your stat spread submissions here.

Please read the other posts in this thread before posting a spread, so that you don't post an identical spread to someone else. I do not want to see ten spreads that are essentially the same with minor variations.

While not strictly required, I strongly recommend you include key damage calculations with your spread. This makes your spread more attractive, and explains what it is designed to do.

I should warn everyone beforehand that I am not unaware of the gaming of stats for absolute maximum effectiveness using the BSR system. This Pokemon is not getting 130+ base HP. Try to keep your spreads relatively realistic compared to the Pokemon we already have.

Our Pokemon so far:

Admiral_Korski said:

Concept: Momentum
General Description: This will be a Pokemon that can be utilized to gain or regain momentum for a player's team at any point in the match as its primary function.
Justification: Gen. 5 is a very powerful metagame. As such, most battles are won by the smarter strategist who can best maneuver around his/her opponent's onslaught to gain even a single turn's advantage, potentially clinching them the match. This process of gaining and regaining momentum is most often the defining element that makes a winner and a loser out of a single Pokemon battle. Any top player in this metagame should agree that momentum is the most crucial element in any given match; however, "momentum" itself is a rather vaguely defined term that is never really explored in concrete terms. Is it keeping opposing teams on the defensive? Forcing switches? Good prediction? Spamming U-turn? These have all been approaches to achieving momentum, but they are also player-side and largely synonymous with "strategy," as opposed to Pokemon-side and regarding a Pokemon's role on the team. Certainly there are threats like Ferrothorn/Gliscor (defensive) and Scizor/Latios/Voltlos, etc., etc. (offensive) that can achieve momentum as we know it, but there is no current niche for a "momentum Pokemon" because the concept has been purely delegated to players and not to Pokemon.
Questions to be Answered:
-How do we define momentum in terms of competitive Pokemon? What factors make current Pokemon able to achieve momentum and how can we incorporate that information into a successful CAP?
-How do different styles of play (Weather-based offense, stall, bulky offense, etc.) use momentum to achieve their goals and how can our CAP play to those strategies in an effort to take their momentum away?
-What type of traditional role (sweeper, tank, wall, support) would a Pokemon like this most resemble? Would it have to be able to fit more than one of these roles to fit in a variety of teams?
-How will the different playstyles be affected by the addition of a Pokemon that can regain offensive/defensive momentum at any given point? Will offensive teams play more conservatively? Will defensive teams play more recklessly? Will everything simply adapt to a new threat and move on normally?

Click to expand...

Typing: Flying/Fighting

For reference, you can find out your base stat ratings by using the spreadsheet found in this post: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3323869&postcount=4 . All stat submissions must be within the limits set in the stat limit thread to be considered valid. As a reminder, these limits are 165 for PTank, 165 for STank, 175 for SSweep, and 95 for Psweep.

My Submission:

HP 80
Attack 55
Defense 108
Sp. Attack 98
Sp. Defense 90
Speed 103

PS: 94
PT: 164
SS: 175
ST: 138

The idea behind this spread was to make this Pokémon faster than the base 100s, Landorus and Garchomp, while having the best SpA possible withing the limits allowed. The Attack is very low, but 1) you won't need it so much and 2) I couldn't go higher without breaking the limits imposed. I also went for a lot of Physical Tankiness with Good Special Tankiness because I think this Pokémon will have to switch especially on physical attackers, and because I did not want to make it too powerful (but I can go all the way and maximize ST up to the 165 limit if needed). I'll edit in with calcs later

EDIT: Here are some calcs

252 SpA LO Aura Sphere vs


Timid 252 SpA LO Air Slash vs:



Timid 0 Atk LO Close Combat vs:



Timid 252 SpA LO HP Fire vs:



Timid 252 SpA LO HP Ice vs:



More calcs coming later

Final Submission

HP: 80
Attack: 65
Defense: 100
Special Attack: 120
Special Defense: 105
Speed: 77 (Same as Heatran, for reference)





As you can see, running Modest 252 Att (252 HP for defense), CAP1 can take out or severely hurt several top that are hit SE by one of it's STABs, and several possible attacks CAP1 could get (all are Special, since my stat leans that way). Landorus and Garchomp are ruined from coverage HP Ice on the Switch-in, and Terrakion takes a beating by Aura Sphere, so CAP1 could (if fresh) switch in and threaten a KO on a weakened Terrakion. Excadrill and Tyranitar both eat a strong Aura Sphere, and Conckledurr is threatened by Air Slash (and the faster speed).

Vacuum wave also proves viable to get a quick KO on a weakened opponent weak to Fighting.



Here are the defensive numbers I ran. As you can see, Reuniclus' Psychic whips CAP1 with my Sp. Def stat, so switching into it wouldn't be advised. You can switch into a Balloon Excadrill as soon as it comes out, and threaten it if it tries to set up or hits you on the switch. I have some numbers with the intimidate drop, but I'm choosing not to include those so I don't get close to Poll Jumping. The reason I ran 252 was to show what my spread can do when players aren't trying to outspeed everything and their mothers.

Constructive criticism is welcomed!

Final Submission

Yep so here's mine.

HP: 90
Atk: 48
Def: 100
SpA: 112
SpD: 90
Spe: 90

Total: 530

PS: 75.58 (Below Average)
PT: 164.42 (Very Good)
SS: 174.73 (Very Good)
ST: 147.94 (Good)

ODB: 1.23 (Slightly biased towards offense)
PSB: -12.15 (Moderately biased towards special)

Rating: 306.34 (Very Good)

90 / 48 / 100 / 112 / 90 / 90:

The idea behind these stats was to mix natural bulk with adequate speed to give the CAP room for specific and efficient switch-ins with which to gain momentum. It can threaten offensively where it has to and defensively where it has to, depending on how the player would like it to fit into his/her team. I really believe this Pokemon will do its best work based on abilities and movepool, so these stats are balanced and useful enough, in my opinion, to support a myriad of options in upcoming stages of the process.

Offenses: 48 / 112 / 90

These are reasonable. The most important aspect here is the Speed. 90 Speed puts it in a relatively sparce speed bracket with Lucario, Roserade, and Lilligant (three rarities in the metagame), allowing the player complete leeway to outrun specific < 90 threats without feeling forced to EV completely in Speed. A quick Taunt (should it get Taunt) or threat of SE attack can force out a bunch of stallmons, Tyranitar, Suicune, and Breloom, amongst others, giving CAP plenty of switch-forcing and momentum-gaining capabilities. Going much higher here (>95) would really put a lot of pressure on the player to outrun things like Gliscor, Hydreigon, base 100s, Garchomp, etc., which I don’t think is what we’re looking for here. Base 90 also allows you to outspeed Excadrill outside of weather if you want, which is nice. 112 EVs and a neutral nature outrun max-Speed Tyranitar, 188 EVs and a neutral nature outspeed max Speed Breloom, and 216 EVs and a positive nature outruns max Speed Suicune, for a few benchmarks.

48 Attack means physical attacks are out of the question (but Moxie isn’t!). 112 Special Attack is a nice, high-ish number that fits the stat limitations and lets CAP do some good damage to key threats without outright sweeping, such as 2HKOing 252/252+ Tyranitar in Sand with Aura Sphere and 0 EVs.

Defenses: 90 / 100 / 90

These are excellent defenses, equalling Articuno on the physical side and Zapdos on the special side (neat!), so it's no slouch. This means dedicated defensive sets are still incredibly viable. As CAP’s weaknesses lie almost exclusively on the Special Attacking spectrum, this spread puts more effort into defense for tanking the kind of hits it should be taking. These stats are its real bread and butter and allow it to tank things like Choice Scarf Garchomp, Scizor, and the like much better.

[/CALCS]
Offense, assuming a spread of 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid:


Damn that's all the calcs I can fit in before I ship off to Spring Break. If you're curious about defensive numbers/spreads or other offensive moves like Hidden Power, you can work those out on your own, although I doubt anyone would.

All right, here's my build...

HP: 100
ATK: 50
DEF: 93
SPA: 94
SPD: 93
SPE: 111

111 speed is a very important aspect; it lets this outrun the vast majority of the game with max Speed, including important threats like Latios and Terrakion, as well as tie with Thundurus/Tornadus. Or, it can outrun base 100s/Landorus/Chomp while making some defensive investment. The downside is that it needs an Expert Belt to OHKO some things with a Timid nature due to the just-barely-passable 94 SpA.

100/93/93 defenses let the CAP switch in well enough, as often as is needed, but aren't really enough to *stall* with its typing in mind. This is important; its purpose is to build momentum, not be an unbreakable wall.

This spread would allow for a CAP that could come in on a reasonably powerful attack, threaten things out with its powerful STAB attacks, and thanks to its reliable weaknesses safely bring in another Pokémon by maneuvering the opponent into a corner.

It can not sweep, nor can it wall.

Space reserved for calculations

I love this part.

HP: 115
Atk: 95
Def: 80
SAtk: 115
SDef: 80
Spe: 50

PT: 156.5513
ST: 156.0881
PS: 94.5379
SS: 114.7519

Rating: 279.8457
BST: 535

Thank you RD for that nifty BSR thingy.

Now, my spread seems pretty different from many others; if you give me a chance I think I can explain it.

The first point is Attack. I am of the opinion that this Pokemon should have sufficient means (and by that I mean attacking prowess) to defeat the main special walls of the 5th Generation, or at the very least inflict sufficient damage to the Fighting-weak ones as to pose a threat. You may say that this is redundant, as it will be more effective as a special sweeper, and indeed the low PS threshold lends credence to this theory. Hopefully I can fully explain this decision in the section at the bottom. For now, however, I'll just explain the stats. As physical sweepiness is linked to both Speed and Attack, I had to find the proper medium between the two to make sure that it achieved mutual goals. And I think it turned out rather well.

To get a reasonably high Attack stat, I had to get a pretty low Speed stat. This could actually be seen as a good thing, since this means that CAP1 won't be sweeping teams any time soon (that is unless we decide to give it Bulk Up, which I am severely opposed to). Thus helping us to fulfil one particular area of the concept. The only compromise made is a reduction in a) the ability to threaten, and, leading on from that, b) The ability to regain momentum. The second point is pretty crucial, and I'll concede that freely. However, the same could generally be said of most Pokemon under the base 100 Speed mark in this new generation, so I'm not unduly worried: between a hugely powerful STAB combination and big defensive stats (and probably Roost as well), I'm pretty confident that the ability to threaten will not be too reduced.

So, the medium I decided on was thus: 95 Attack and 50 Speed. I felt that a minimum of 50 Speed was essential in order to at least tie with Conkeldurr, and likely as not beat it with a few EVs taken for granted. The 95 Attack achieves the following, assuming no EV investment, a neutral nature, and Life Orb:

v 252/252 Chansey: 59.9% - 71%
v 252/252 Blissey: 81.8% - 96.6%
v 252/252 Ferrothorn: 54.5% - 64.8%
v 252/252 Porygon2: 44.9% - 52.9%

...which I feel is more than enough should the user of CAP1 want a way to reliably smack down on special walls, especially considering that most of these Pokemon never run 252/252 +nat anyway. This also allows you to hopefully hit stuff such as Jellicent harder if need be (though not with your Fighting STAB, obviously).

Next come the defensive stats. Now I, like most other people here, or so I believe, I am a big fan of the idea of a defensive approach, or at least with that as an inspiration, so I too decided to maximise the PT and ST (though I also tried to keep it as near to round numbers as possible). However, to do so, I borrowed a little bit of inspiration from Krilowatt, and gave it high HP with lower defences. Why do so, I hear you ask? Well, aside from the BST conservation, I also like the idea of high HP so that the use of recoil moves is less of an issue. This also means that you can quite effectively stall out Chansey's Seismic Toss, if it comes down to it. Oh, and it also means that there is a big difference between investing and not investing in your low defensive stats, which means that there is a greater divide between offensive sets and defensive sets. This means that there is less benefit for CAP1 to simply ride on its bulk, as it were.

Finally, we have the Special Attack. This is the one bit that I'm not quite sure about at the moment. I've checked it, and thanks to the low Speed stat, I can actually exceed a SpA stat of 200 without coming near the limit. While I accept that yes, this is pretty damn threatening, I don't really want to be that excessive. I also want CAP1 to have a pretty similar Special Attack stat to its Attack stat, though obviously slightly higher, as it needs to present a convincing threat with arguably less effective STAB moves. Thusly, I chose 115 Special Attack as the ideal benchmark, after considering 105 and 110, as this is the minimum stat required to OHKO 252 HP Conkeldurr 100% of the time with Life Orb Bold Air Slash.

Now, some considerations I made when conceiving this spread:

Unpredictability: This is difficult to explain, so I'll go over it briefly. Essentially, I think that the CAP has moved away from forcing the opponent's hand, as such, when we chose the Flying/Fighting typing. This is obviously not true in all cases, and indeed I believe that this holds true more so for this CAP already than for many other Pokemon, but I still believe that it is no longer the sole arbiter for momentum. That's why, while I am retaining the ability to keep momentum in terms of both offensive and defensive presence, I am also making sure that CAP1 has some form of a fallback. That fallback is unpredictability.

Now, this encompasses a number of the points I made above, so I'll try not to forget to address any of them. Basically, the idea behind unpredictability in this context is not to cause your opponent to act irrationally, as this harms prediction on your part as well, but rather to impersonate one thing while retaining the capacity to surprise them. As it were, to regain momentum at a crucial point. Think DP Hidden Power Ice Lucario vs. Gliscor (pre-plat). Lucario is most commonly seen as a Swords Dancer, who is walled entirely by Gliscor. However, the use of Hidden Power Ice brings momentum back to your side, should you manage to OHKO the Gliscor.

We have a similar situation here with CAP1. On the one hand, it will primarily be a special attacker. And yet it has the potential to run defensive sets, mixed sets, whatever. Yes, it becomes obvious what it is once you know the set, but until that point you have, as it were, the upper hand, at least in theory, as the onus is on them to predict correctly, and once they know what set you are running, they are far more likely to act in a predictable way, as they are already on the back foot. Hence, the relative equality in offensive stats, and also the defensive ability, in addition to the power provided on the special side. The one thing it cannot do is sweep. And that's exactly what's wanted.

Now, of course, unpredictability is all very well, but it shouldn't come at the expense of the integrity of the concept itself. Especially not if this leads to moveslot syndrome or the like. This is one of the reasons why I have made the stats the way they are; CAP1 has significant versatility this way, but not necessarily the ability to run an amalgam of different sets. To specialise requires significant investment, so much so that there are individual standards for every build, which makes it significantly easier to predict once you know the set. This hopefully offsets any significant overpowering on the part of the unpredictability overall.

Threat and Momentum:

EDIT: Sorry forgot to read the OP. HP stat significantly downsized. Will finalise HP/defences once I get some calculations going.

Final Submission

78 HP / 45 Atk / 110 Def / 95 SpAtk / 87 SpDef / 110 Speed / 525 Total

Physical Sweepiness: 79.1
Physical Tankiness: 164.8
Special Sweepiness: 173.4
Special Tankiness: 131.2

Overall Stat Rating: 297.3 Good

Offensive Calcs

Defensive Calcs

This stat spread is designed to be the ultimate spread for a speedy CaP1. 110 base speed allows CaP1 to outspeed everything it needs to. It's great 78/110/87 defenses allow it to switch in on many dangerous sweepers and pose a threat. At the same time, even with its great dual STAB, 95 base special attack + 90BP STAB isn't going to be breaking through walls, preventing CaP1 becoming a sweeper in its own right.

On the other hand, if a slower CaP1 is preferred, this stat spread can still do that, while still easily outspeeding slow threats. Only 24 speed EVs are needed to outspeed neutral nature base 80s and plus nature base 70s, and the rest can be used to make CaP1 even bulkier than it already is.

And this spread accomplishes all of this with a BST of only 525 and a BSR of "Good".

Final Submission:

110 HP / 82 Atk / 76 Def / 125 SpA / 87 SpD / 60 Spe

PT: 144.4743
ST: 163.5432
PS: 93.9900
SS: 138.2663

BSR: 291.8588 (Good)
BST: 540

Introduction:

The basic idea here is to have an attack stat usuable enough so that it isn't a liability to run Brick Break, Circle Throw, or any of the various technical Fighting moves. Odd as it would be, with Max Speed+ a Low Sweep would allow CAP 1 to outspeed any Pokemon with less than 360 Speed, which is essentially everything under Base 115. From there it could launch a special attack of decent power to catch an opponent off guard.

The BST is 540, which is fairly common after 5 Generations and generally indicative of solid Pokemon from Gyarados and Snorlax to Blissey and Haxorus. It's neither overwhelming nor underwhelming, and is pretty flexible. The BSR is only "Good," but its encroaching on Very Good and it does what it's supposed to and little more. It certainly has wiggle room for some good abilities.



Set:

Whenever I make a stat submission I always have a specific spread in mind. This is the result:

Nature: Modest
EVs: 224 HP / 44 Def / 236 SpA / 4 Spe
Stats: 417 HP / 180 Atk / 199 Def / 379 SpA / 210 SpD / 157 Spe

Calculation Overview:

These were the Calculations I based when deciding to make my first draft:

Offensive:
Shadow Ball vs. 252/4 HP / SpD Reuniclus: 50-59% (2HKO on LO, 50% 2HKO on Lefties sets)

Aura Sphere vs. 4/0 HP . SpD Terrakion in SS: 70.4-83.3% (needs a lot of hazard support to OHKO, but Vacuum Wave [31.5-37.7%] always follows up with a KO while Mach Punch [22.8-27.8%] always finishes with SR or Spikes)

Focus Punch vs. 4/0 HP / SpD Terrakion: 83.3-98.8% (can OHKO 92% of the time with SR. Nature can be altered so it will KO itself with one Life Orb Recoil, resulting in either A (KO by Psychic below) B (KO by +2 LO Return below) C (being slower than Base 55's like Blissey).

Focus Punch vs. 4/252 HP / SpD Bold Eviolite Chansey: 50.8-60.1% (Always 2HKOs)

Defensive:
Modest Reuniclus Leftovers Psychic: 84.9-99.8% (requires SR to OHKO, KO's 92% of the time with SR down)
Jolly Excadrill +2 LO Return 84.2-99.3% (requires SR to OHKO, KO's 92% of the time with SR down)

Expanded Calculations: (No nature assumed, but same EVs as Set)

I've been having a hard time deciding weather to make CAP1 fast or not. I decided that being slightly slower without being really slow might be the best option. Here is the spread I came up with:

HP: 104
Atk: 52
Def: 91
SpA: 113
SpD: 88
Spe: 86


On the offensive side, base 86 speed puts it just past base 85's. Now, not many 85s are commonly used, but out-speeding the 80s (such as Dragonite) and 81's (Gyarados) is useful. 113 SpAtk is used to maximize its special power while staying withing the limits. It gives it enough power that, depending on its movepool, allows it to take care of threats such as Tyranitar, but not enough to allow it to be a sweeper at its speed. And 52 Atk is because this thing won't be physically attacking, and I like the number 52.

Defensively, 104 HP gives it good bulk, and if it gets Substitute, allows for 101 subs. 91 Defense makes it very physically bulky. While no real Pokemon has that exact spread, to put it into perspective, its physical bulk is slightly more than that of Swampert and almost exactly the same as Ho-Oh. Specially is is slightly worse, but still quite good. The only really close real Pokemon comparison would be Audino (103/86).

Oh, and in case you couldn't tell, I like odd numbers. I also think by keeping away from multiples of 5 for every stat you make it less comparable to other Pokemon.

Final Submission:

HP: 70
Atk: 60
Def: 115
SpA: 135
SpD: 105
Spe: 70

PT: 161.6 "Very Good"
ST: 147.4 "Good"
PS: 80.6 "Below Average"
SS: 170.7 "Very Good"

Overall Rating: 305 "Very Good"
BST: 555











Thanks to Rising_Dusk for giving me some constructive comments to fine-tune the spread!

Hp: 92
Att: 84
Def: 105
Sp att: 123
Sp def: 114
speed: 62

Hp: I would like to give CAP1 a decent HP because otherwise its tankiness will not be good enough for it to gain momentum. It already is quite vulnerable to stealth rock so with a good HP-stat it isn't completely lost

Attack: Certainly wanted to give it some attack because it gives it more variety to the sets. Maybe it becomes mixed-sweep-worthy.

Defense: I didn't want to give CAP1 too much defense so it doesn't become impossible to beat. CAP1 should be good because of his ability to avoid ground-moves and be strong against fighting types; so no need for an extremely high defense.

Sp attack: To regain momentum this thing needs something to hit hard :p This should do it. Not exaggerated, not too little....

Sp defense: I wanted to give cap1 a good sp defense because the extreme loss of power of blissey. Some pokemon should be able hold off those strong special attacks :p

Speed: I didn't want to make CAP1 depend too much on his speed. But I certainly didn't want to make it so slow that it isn't able to counter something with some help from a boosting move (like agility) or a choice scarf

Yay stat spreads!

Final Submission

Raw Base Stats: 100 HP / 55 Atk / 80 Def / 130 SpA / 85 SpD / 70 Spe

PT: 141.9035 (Good)
ST: 150.1365 (Very Good)
PS: 75.0192 (Below Average)
SS: 165.1009 (Very Good)
BSR: 286.5455 (Good)
BST: 520

Every stat is "sweetspotted" in some way. The spread is largely designed to encourage a 252 HP / 252 SpA @ Leftovers (maybe Bold nature) setup as much as possible, through the clutch damage calculations against some very large threats, the allure of a 101 HP Substitute, and the advantage gained against opposing CAP 1 who don't invest in HP. If anything, if someone tries to "break the mold", the result will be something different, and it would be interesting to see what would result from that.

I'm really, really stoked about this stat spread. I feel that it does almost exactly what CAP 1 should be doing within the stat limits, without "optimizing" to the limits unnecessarily. I mean, do we really need Swampert defenses? The fact that Adamant Life Orb Blaziken gets so, so close to OHKOing this spread with Flare Blitz is just so awesome, maximizing the recoil. There's also a sort of Azumarill reference in the HP / Def, a Breloom reference in the Spe, and a Heatran reference in the SpA. I think that this spread makes the right moves in the right places. I hope you agree.



Some key calculations

My spread:
PV: 105
Atk: 54
Def: 88
SpA: 106
SpD: 82
Spe: 95
BST: 535



Defensive : 105/88/82
Great stats, like Swampert. I wanted a lower SpD to maintain unpredictability (Surprise !) and because his typing begs for physical tankiness. High HP means 101 sub and great defensive presence. He can easily withstand through many attacks, regenerates (maybe) and grab momentum without dying. That's all around defenses, which combinations whit his above-average speed lets his precise usage free to the user. One thing is sure : He will gain momentum.

Offensive : 54/106/95
That's the best SpAtk / Spd I can find. This speed leaves many possibilities : max speed to outspeed many threats, sit at 246 etc... His EVs are very adaptable, and like always, unpredictability helps to grab momentum. He can OHKO Excadrill even without Focus Blast (with the help of one layer of Spikes though), and when invested (which you can afford if you are slower), it becomes a nice powerhouse. He has still two high-powered-but-inaccurate STABs, and if one wants to have more power (specially a Flying STAB), it can become very threatening. Oh, and don't forget his wonderful physical attack !






Calcs will come soon. Still WIP, any comments is welcome.

Made some calcs for my spread. To the people who think 98 SpA is underwhelming (no one openly said it, but I bet someone must think it, with the spreads being thrown around...), I suggest to check those calcs. And I didn't even use Hurricane/Focus Blast as STABs like someone did, but Aura Sphere and Air Slash (I'll do Hurricane/Focus Blast calcs as well, later). Also, I seriously suggest people to consider what there is to gain passing from 80ish or even 90ish speed to 103.

Final Submission

Stat Spread:

HP:98
Atk:56
Def:101
SpA:98
SpD:95
Spe:103

I guess what I really wanted to do here was have something speedy that wasn't Blasting holes through everything. I sort of like the idea of this PokeMon edging his way in with Status and forcing switches through means other than brute force.

I'll fully admit that I'm not in practice, nor am I too knowledgeable about the Gen 5 Meta, though I suppose not many people really are. But through the suggestions of a few people I have made some tweaks and I like what I have. 98 is a decent SpAtk stat, and it allows for a Life Orb set the could do some pretty good damage, with the right moves and prediction, yet this spread will most likely lend itself better to a move set with only one or two attacks, and a slew of support and status opinions.

At first I wanted to give it those oh-so-important 101 subs to help is deal with Blissey, but then I considered that having Blissey as a check wouldn't be so bad.

BSR:
PT:175.2
ST:164.4
PS:95.5
SS:174.8



As the Calcs show with a strong SpA investment CAP 1 would be able to pack a bit of punch, 2HKOing quite a few pokemon and taking very little damage in the process. On the other hand it can be pretty bulky and run more of a stall oriented set while still being quite fast.

This is a pretty refined spread that I've been working on recently, but I haven't run the calcs yet.

HP:109
Atk: 69
Def: 87
SpA: 129
SpD:88
Spe: 73

Specialized statistics:
PT: 163 (Very Good)
ST: 164 (Very Good)
PS: 95 (Below Average)
SS: 175: (Very Good)

Offensive/Defensive Balance: 1.18, Slightly Biased towards Offense
Physical/Special Balance: -11.8, Biased towards Special
Base Stat Rating: 329 (Very Good)
Base Stat Total: 555

Offenses
69/129/73

This pokemon is no real physical threat, unless you really buff it up and give it a ridiculously powered attack like Focus Punch. In fact, Focus Punch might be a good move for this set if it goes (lol) mixed, which could set your opponent off guard, somewhat like Swords Dance Darkrai in Ubers. Maxed out with a neutral nature, this pokemon reaches a modest 237 Attack. However, the Special Attack maxes out in the 390s, which allows it to come in on threats and attack away. It's STAB is SE on Blissey, so Blissey cannot just come in with entry hazards in play. It's Speed is a letdown, mostly to keep it from being broken. With only 73 Speed, this Pokemon will have to be used well to gain momentum for its team, as it loses to Dragonite and pals. It does outspeed Skarmory, Scizor, Vaporeon, Tyranitar, and Swampert with 73 Speed, so it can outrun the slower "bulky boosters" of this generation.

I chose numbers close to the limits so that CAP1 can achieve its concept without becoming incredibly broken. Momentum requires that this pokemon be able to aid its team in numerous situations, so it needs good stats to do so. I'm not sure how a pokemon with only a ~500-520 BST can do this, so I chose something with great bulk and a nice Special Attack stat. 129 is high, but remember, this pokemon will almost definitely not be using the item Life Orb. Many pokemon can do much more damage than this with a Life Orb or a Choice Specs, which this Pokemon is NOT going to be using. This guy is not a sweeper, and, even with a LO, would not be very useful because it's so slow. Unless we give it Magic Guard, this pokemon will not do well with a LO, which makes its attacks much more manageable. It's SpA is less than Magnezone's, and nobody thinks Magnezone is broken! This pokemon hits about as hard as Choice Scarf Latios, and we all wish he had a little more power at times!

Note: with moderate to high HP Investment, this pokemon can set up on Evo Stone Chansey (and, though it is rarely seen, Dusclops) with 101 Subs.

This pokemon is a stop to Terrakion, too, because he has the defenses to take a Stone Edge, resists Close Combat, and can use STAB Aura Sphere/Vacuum Wave to kill/badly hurt it.

zarator said:

Made some calcs for my spread. To the people who think 98 SpA is underwhelming (no one openly said it, but I bet someone must think it, with the spreads being thrown around...), I suggest to check those calcs. And I didn't even use Hurricane/Focus Blast as STABs like someone did, but Aura Sphere and Air Slash (I'll do Hurricane/Focus Blast calcs as well, later). Also, I seriously suggest people to consider what there is to gain passing from 80ish or even 90ish speed to 103.

Click to expand...

The big problem that I (and probably some others) have with an attacking stat like 98 is that it almost mandates the use of Life Orb in order to hit decently hard (which you went along with pretty willingly in your calculations) to do any damage. IMO, Life Orb is 100% a sweeper item, and not a "momentum" item due to its sapping of your health and boosting of attacks (Breloom for example utilizes a healing item as opposed to a draining one). Your spread is far too reminiscent of Starmie to me, with its decent attacking stats, good type coverage, and fairly high speed. It has been said over and over again that CAP 1 shouldn't be a sweeper, and a fast attacker with good coverage definitely sounds like that to me.

On the other hand, slow attackers very rarely utilize Life Orb. A slower CAP 1 would definitely be incapable of sweeping, and a higher SpA stat allows it to hit hard (you can look at my post or others for calcs) while still being capable of maintaining bulk.

I fear that these fast stat spreads are in severe danger of ending up like a bulkier and slower Starmie rather than a pokemon that can switch in on a number of relevant threats, force them out, and abuse the free turn to gain a few turns of momentum or force a predictable switch.

Alright, time for me to take a stab at this

147HP/66Atk/69Def/124SAt/69SDf/80Spe

PS Rating: 93.4468
PT Rating: 163.9599
SS Rating: 173.9724
ST Rating: 163.2541
Overall Rating: 327.4562
P/S Bias: -11.6923
O/D Bias: 1.1331
BST Total: 555

Calculations will come in a minute, but first, I just wanna clarify why I chose these specific stats out of all the possible combinations I could've gone for.

147HP:

Yep, once again I'm going for a massive amount of HPs. There's a good reason for that. 1) to make this guy able to perform 101 Subs without any investment in HP and 2) so it can make the most of any investments in its Defenses. That's what high HP does for these kind of Pokemon. Probably could've gone down to 132, but I choose 147 instead so it could slot neatly between Hariyama and Drifblim.

69Def/69SDf:

Yes, they look shabby on their own, I know, but coupled with that gargantuan amount of HPs, they don't look so bad now, do they? I decided to make them even Steven, 'cause I like even Steven. I also did it so you could customize the defenses as you might need. They're still good btw, and I'll prove it when I get round to the calculations.

124SAt:

Hits hard enough to get the job done. True, its slightly weaker than that Deck Knight's spread, but its a fair bit stronger than I originally intended it to be, which was at 120 to match Hariyama's Atk. But then the Special Sweepiness was too high at 81 Spe, and as I moved it down 1 it shot right down by 8! So yeah, that's why I amped SAt up a bit.

80Spe:

Bit of unfortunate event that I had to stick with this. But that's what I'm stuck with; a somewhat measly 80 Spe. But hey, Chandelure's Spe's at 80 and it revenge kills stuff just fine with the help of a Choice Scarf. And if you can revenge kill at 80 Spe, surely you can gain momentum at 80 Spe, and that's what this concept's all about.

66Atk:

And finally the glue, 66Atk to make the total BST at 555. Not entirely useless, but best used for the much more powerful STABs like Focus Punch, Close Combat and Brave Bird, if its to be used at all. You could always run a Bulk Up set in tandem I guess. And yeah, I'll do some calcs on those as well, as well as the special attacks and stuff that you're supposed to use.

Version 3 (1st version had too high HP, 2nd version was similar to DetroitLolcat's)

This is my first time participating in the stat spread process, so any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
115 Hp / 67 Atk / 79 Def / 120 SpA / 79 SpD / 80 Spe
BSR: 312.8728
BST: 540 isn't low, but it's not extremely high like most other CAPs. I chose 540, instead of 550 or more, for the same reasons as Deck Knight.
PT: 154.7029
ST: 154.3002
PS: 94.7127
SS: 168.6476
ODB: 1.7710 (Slightly biased towards offense)
PSB: -10.7713 (Moderately biased towards special)

115 HP allows for 101 subs with only 132 EVs.

67 Atk, 24 EV's, and a neutral nature allows CAP1's Close Combat to OHKO 252/0 TTar after SR damage.

79 Def instead of 84 to lower the BST (Gyarados has 79 Def and 95 HP for reference)

120 SpA is a very usable special attack stat and is near the maximum for the speed.

79 SpD for the same reason as Def

80 Spe and 4 Speed EVs lets -speed CAP1 outspeed Skarmory, Conkeldurr, Machamp, Blissey, Tyranitar and other pokemon with 70 base speed or less that don't invest in speed. 80 spe also allows CAP 1 to outspeed threats like +speed Breloom and Smeargle with +speed and 176 EVs.

I'll edit damage calculations in later, and I may change the spread based on feedback I receive.

EV Spread (Tentative): Relaxed (+Def/-Spe) 132 HP / 24 Atk / 104 Def / 248 SpA
132 HP and 24 Atk for reasons mentioned above. 104 Def for a bonus point. The rest of the EVs go to SpA for damage.
(I used 248 SpA EVs, but I'd transfer 4 EVs to speed for the reason mentioned above.)
Stats: 404 HP / 176 Atk / 242 Def / 338 SpA / 194 SpD / 176 Spe

First attempt at stat spreads :D
Additions to the submission in italics, except for calcs.

Hide

Draft 1:

Final Submission:
108 HP / 55 Atk / 88 Def / 125 Sp.A / 86 Sp.D / 78 Spe

PT: 163.94
ST: 159.80
PS: 79.43
SS: 174.51

This might be pushing the bounds a bit, but it's not without good reason. There is not much difference between the old spread and this spread. The Physical Defense stat has been increased by four, and the Special Defense stat has been increased by one for a slight improvement in bulk and a slight bias towards physical defense. Due to the lack of difference between spreads, what I said before can also apply to this.

HP: 108 HP is a good number to have. Most of the good offensive threats in the new metagame have a relatively high HP stat so they can take some hits (Doryuuzu taking Garchomp's Fire Fang, for example). 108 HP also allows CAP 1 to have the ability to make 101 HP Substitutes with relatively low investment (172 HP EVs).

Defense & Special Defense: It's very important for CAP 1 to have decent defenses, as giving it low defenses means that it will have to make do with higher speed. With higher speed and a good offensive stat, this means that we've probably made some sort of sweeper. Thus, lower speed and better defenses are better. I gave CAP 1 ~85 in both defenses to make it relatively balanced. While it is true that CAP 1's typing is better physically (defensively speaking), a good Defense stat is still necessary so it doesn't die to neutral physical hits. 108 HP and 85 Sp.D give CAP 1 the same natural bulk as Garchomp, who can take some hits quite well. Comparing CAP 1 to Garchomp is actually quite accurate. CAP 1 has defensive stats of 108 / 88 / 86, while Chomp has defensive stats of 108 / 95 / 85. Thus, you can use your pre-existing knowledge of Garchomp's defensive capabilities to estimate how CAP 1 will do.

Attack: 55 Attack is relatively low. This makes CAP 1 more specially-oriented, since 55 attack is practically unusable. However, the attack stat is still enough to deal decent damage if you can predict correctly (e.g. STAB Focus Punch, should CAP 1 get this move). Hopefully, this attack stat will still allow semi-viable use of moves such as U-Turn.

Special Attack: 125 Special Attack gives CAP 1 a threatening offensive presence that can force switches, netting you momentum. The Special Attack stat is the same as Rankurusu / Reuniclus, who has already proved to be able to deal a hefty amount of damage without any boosts. Fighting / Flying gives relatively good coverage, so CAP 1 should be able to deal a fair amount of damage. Of course, we can't turn it into a sweeper, so this special attack is slightly offset by the Speed.

Speed: 78 Speed is there for exactly two reasons: a) it is enough Speed to outrun max+ Heatran, and b) it's low enough to fit the Special Sweepiness restrictions. Being able to outrun Heatran is a fairly significant attribute, since Heatran can deal a fair amount of damage with it's high-powered attacks and large Special Attack stat. However, pushing CAP 1's speed up any higher might make its offensive presence too strong, which is something else to be avoided. The Speed stat also allows CAP 1 to outspeed Adamant Gyarados with a +Spe nature (176 EVs), as well as Jolly Breloom (180 and +Spe). It fortuitously outspeeds 252 EV neutral base 90s (Lucario comes to mind) by one point if it runs max speed.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
The following calculations are based on a Timid 172 HP / 156 Sp.A / 180 Spe spread with Substitute, a Special Fighting move, a Special Flying move, and another move. Offensive calcs are calculated with no item unless otherwise noted. Defensive calculations are calculated with Leftovers unless otherwise noted. There are still a few calcs I want to show, but I have to go T.T I'll update them when I get back.

CAP 1's Offensive Presence against Offensive Pokemon:
As said before, it is imperative that CAP 1 has an offensive presence. Without the offensive presence, Pokemon can wall it all day or worse, set up on it. Fortunately, CAP 1's typing gives it dual STABs that have fairly good coverage when combined. The calculations shown below demonstrate CAP 1's offensive presence against current momentum-mons and the most-used Pokemon.

Breloom:

As seen by these calculations, Breloom is pretty much wrecked by any attack CAP 1 throws at it. Air Slash deals an inordinate amount of damage, and Aura Sphere also deals with it pretty well. Refer to the Defense section to see what Breloom does to CAP 1. It's not much.

Heatran:


Heatran, another momentum-gainer, is also countered hard by CAP 1. CAP 1 gains momentum by killing momentum-mons? As clearly demonstrated in these calcs, CAP 1 really has nothing to fear from Heatran, assuming it runs enough speed to outspeed it. With the current spread, it doesn't, but CAP 1 doesn't take an overly large amount of damage from its attacks.

Nattorei / Ferrothorn

Nattorei / Ferrothorn is also pretty damaged by CAP 1. With a Life Orb attached, Focus Punch + Aura Sphere or 2 Aura Spheres kill it pretty quickly. Without a Life Orb, CAP 1 still has an >50% to 2HKO max/max Nattorei with Aura Sphere. With rocks up, it's virtually guaranteed. max Special Defense Nattorei is pretty much the only variant of Nattorei CAP 1 has to fear, since it doesn't take too much damage from Aura Sphere. If you don't have a Substitute up, it can Leech Seed + Protect stall you, turning a 2-hit fest into a 6-hit fest. It can't break your substitute with Power Whip, so it's always a good idea to sub against Natt.

Tyranitar:

With the given stat spread, CAP 1 also deals with Tyranitar well. With Stealth Rock on the opponent's side of the field, Aura Sphere is almost guaranteed to wipe away offensive Tyranitar, including the Choice Bander. The only set it has some difficulty facing is the TyraniBoah, though a 60% chance is still nifty.

Gyarados:

Gyarados takes hits from CAP 1 pretty well, succumbing only with Rocks up. This is the reason why being able to outspeed Adamant Gyarados is so important; CAP 1 can get the first hit, killing Gyarados without taking too much damage. CAP 1 can also take advantage of the Air Slash flinch rate should it get the move, since there is a 51% that CAP 1 will get a flinch from Air Slash with two attacks.

Scizor:

As you can clearly see, another one of the most-used Pokemon in the metagame today take heavy damage from CAP 1's STAB attacks. With Stealth Rock on the field, CAP 1 can Air Slash on the switch-in, the proceed to KO with Aura Sphere nearly 100% of the time. Of course, CAP 1 can also go for an alternative: Substitute. If CAP 1 Substitute's on the switch, it can just Aura Sphere twice for the KO.

Garchomp:


Latios:


CAP 1's Offensive Presence against Defensive Pokemon:
The calculations shown above demonstrated the offensive presence of CAP 1. However, it is necessary to make CAP 1 unable to deal heavy damage to certain Pokemon, otherwise we would have a broken sweeper (albeit slow). Some calculations shown will be versus premier walls of the current metagame as well as some commonly used Pokemon in Standard Play. They will show CAP 1's effectiveness against certain Pokemon as well as the troubles it has facing some other Pokemon.

Blissey:

As shown by these calculations, Blissey is not actually guaranteed to be able to withstand attacks from this CAP, if CAP 1 carries Focus Punch. Focus Punch smashes Blissey apart even with no investment; it's a guaranteed OHKO if Blissey doesn't have physically defensive investment, and it's a guaranteed 2HKO with Life Orb even if she does. However, this Pokemon's pre-evolution seems to take less damage...

Chansey (Evo Stone):

As shown by these calculations, CAP 1 is unable to deal much damage to Evo Stone Chansey. It's actually pretty interesting to note that Aura Sphere deals more damage than Focus Punch if Chansey invests in Physical Defense. One thing to note here is that while CAP 1 is unable to deal much damage to Chansey, Chansey is unable to deal damage back. Seismic Toss takes two hits to break CAP 1's Substitute with the given spread, and Thunderbolt doesn't deal much damage either.

Porygon2 (Evo Stone):

Porygon2 is not a surefire wall to CAP 1, as shown here. It is quickly obliterated by Aura Sphere if it does not run any Special Defense investment; however, if it runs maximum special defense with minimal physical defense, then there is a good chance that it can just spam Recover while Life Orb recoil wears down the CAP.

Gliscor:


Rankurusu:


Defensive:

Will update with more calcs later.

Please do not post a spread in this thread until you have read the OP carefully.

I would like to specifically call out Admiral_Stalfos19 and xlxlxlxl on this. I thought I made it quite clear in the OP that I didn't want to see the classic CAP "very high HP" shenanigans, and yet here it is. I don't mind high HP numbers (i.e. Entei or Rhyperior has 115, or even Garchomp with 108), but once you get over 115 or so, you are in the ballpark of really extraordinary Pokemon like Driflblim, Hariyama and Vaporeon, and those are really meant to be exceptions to the rule. The fact that these seem to have become the norm for CAP is not good for the realism of the CAP process. I guarantee that spreads with heavily inflated HP numbers will not make the slate.

On an only partially related note, I think it is dangerous for CAP1 to go TOO slow. Once you dip below base 60, you are outsped by Pokemon like Magnezone, Porygon2 and Empoleon that we probably don't want to be more threatening to CAP1 than they need to be. Choosing a speed below base 60 is allowed, but I really, really think it isn't a good idea.

Final Submission:
HP:80
Attack: 55
Defense: 105
Sp.Attack: 95
Sp.Def: 105
Speed:105
{BST: 545}

Physical Sweepiness: 93.9287
Physical Tankiness: 159.8645
Special Tankiness: 159.2928
Special Sweepiness: 169.3923

BSR: 319.4965 [Very Good]


Basic Reasoning:

The idea behind my subbmitted stat spread is to provide the CAP with bulk, while being fast enough to U-Turn/Volt Switch out from most threats within the metagame. However, it needed enough of an offensive presence to force defensive pokemon, such as Nattorei, out.

Stats in Depth:

Defenses:
80/105/105 are rather impressive, and allow for significant bulk if you go for a 252 HP spread, allowing CAP1 to be based on Bulky Mometum. These defenses are identical to Mespirt, who, as anyone who played 4th Gen UU knows, was by no means frail. Considering this CAP is likly to get Roost and//or Drain Punch, it also prevents these defenses being overkill on either side, turning this CAP into Skarmory/Blissey. If CAP1 goes full defensive, it's offenses will significantly lack, and max HP will force it to forgo some speed, or miss some valuable OHKO's or 2HKOs

Offenses:
I went for a 55/95 spread here. 55 is the maximum allowed by my speed figure. 95 could go a little higher, but I want to allow Aura Sphere/Air Slash to deal with what it should, while lowering the chance of turning this into a Hurricane Spammer on a Rain team. The average Sp.attack also prevents this CAP from becoming a sweeper. Oddly enough, these offenses are identical to Lunatone.

Speed:
The all important. I didn't want this CAP to be so speedy it was forced to hit like a pillow, but I wanted it fast enough to abuse U-Turn/Volt Switch. Hence, I settled on Base 105, which allowed enough Sp.attack to give Aura Sphere and Air Slash punch, but was also impressive. Noteably, this speed teir puts CAP1 above Garchomp and the Landos [And Emolga], speed ties with Zoroark, but is outsped by the Musketeers [Who are little threat], the Latis [Who dislike U-Turns], and Tornadus/Thunderus [Who we wouldn't do much to anyway]

Damage Claculations: Aura Sphere [Modest 252]


Damage Calculations: Air Slash [252 Modest]



This shows that there are certainly things that can switch in on even a neutral attack from this CAP, but it can take down that it needs to, force several things out with it's offensive presence. Hurricane has accuracy problems outside of rain. Focus Miss is Focus Miss.

In addittion, certain pokemon, such as Conkeldurr, cannot switch in. Due to this, it causes CAP1 to force in certain pokemon, which can then be handled by U-Turning/Volt Switching to an approriate counter/check of your own.

Damage Taken from Attacks [Assumeing 4 HP/0 Defense]:


These calculations show that CAP 1 can survive powerful attacks with investment, and can be tailored to counter or check certain threats, forceing them out [Such as a -2 Latios with a Specially bulky set, or Blaziken with a physically bulky one]. This is an example of mometum, and allows CAP1 to be flexiable to the needs of it's team. However, there are some pokemon, such as Renkulus, who still counter CAP1.


- If you wish any calculations to be added, or can provide one for 5th Gen HJK Blaziken, please PM me, so that I can update this post.

I can't help but feel that your spread is almost identical to the one I posted, Raikaria...

CAP1 Stat Spread Submission:

HP: 53
Attack: 63
Defense: 136
Special Attack: 129
Special Defense: 136
Speed: 73

Overall BST: 590

Physical Tankiness: 164.9215 (7: Very Good)
Special Tankiness: 164.1841 (7: Very Good)
Physical Sweepiness: 87.6470 (4: Below Average)
Special Sweepiness: 174.6326 (7: Very Good)
Overall BSR: 325.3293 (7: Very Good)

ODB: 1.0843 (Slight offensive bias)
PSB: -12.6340 (Special bias)

Overview:

This spread for CAP1 tries to give optimised defenses for likely spreads. It has plenty of power, allowing it to secure crucial KOs without resorting to Life Orb and threaten serious damage if left unchecked, but - while fast enough to outpace the walls it needs to - doesn't really have the raw Speed to carry out a full sweep. While the stat spread does have odd base values, it is streamlined - like most such pokemon in-game (eg Monferno, Bronzong), there is a pattern in the unorthodoxy which hopefully satisfies flavour-wise.

Offensively:

Offensive Stats: 63 / 129 / 73

The Attack stat fits comfortably within the Physical Sweepiness limits while still being high enough to do some kind of meaningful damage with the awesome Circle Throw (as well as U-Turn), should CAP1 recieve it. 129 Special Attack is high enough to get important KOs with Leftovers (assuming 252 Modest) - Aura Sphere 2HKOs Nattorei, while Conkeldurr and Virizion fall to Air Slash - and lets CAP1 be threatening. The problem with low Special Attack stats is that CAP1 will become setup fodder for bulky mons. If it doesn't hit hard enough, the opponent can almost ignore it and just bring in anything mildly specially defensive (Skarmory, Hippowdon etc.) to do whatever, and important kills like the ones mentioned above are missed.

The 73 Speed stat outspeeds most walls and gives the option to outspeed the rest while preventing CAP1 from being able to sweep teams itself.



Defensively:

Defensive Stats: 53 / 136 / 136

Strange and BST-heavy though these defensive stats are, they provide optimal defenses on both sides for spreads that have max or close-to-max HP without any investment in either defense.

That allows CAP1 to be Modest, invest in max Special Attack, and still take hits from the likes of -1 Scarf Garchomp, -1 Band Tyranitar and +1 Balloon Doryuuzu.

zarator said:

I can't help but feel that your spread is almost identical to the one I posted, Raikaria...

Click to expand...

Not quite, although they are rather similar. The main difference being the Sp.Def. I went and made it equal to the Physical defense, to go full tank, while you left it somewhat lower.

Although, I do admit, I did not notice the similarity until after I had posted. I ran various calcuations, to get the stat baselines that were needed.

The main differences between our spreads is that mine can survive stonger special attacks, like a Scarf Sazandora/Latios Draco Meteor [Although not Specs]. Yours also has a slightly lower Base Speed, meaning that it loses the Speed Tie against Base 105's [However important Mismagius and Zoroark are, and they're the most important out of that speed teir]

I guess the choice is if we want equal bulk, or if we want to be weaker on the special side, to lure out special attackers in particular.