CAP 12 CAP 1 - Concept Submissions

[reachzero]

In this thread, we will discuss the general goal of CAP 1. The Concept will be a guiding force throughout the ensuing project, to ensure the final result is a cohesive competitive Pokemon. Any discussions, suggestions, or submissions in later topics that do not support the spirit of the Concept will be moderated by me. I strongly suggest that you put a great deal of thought into your submission, and that you think twice before supporting others, as this is the stage in which we will determine what CAP 1 will try to accomplish.

Concepts must be presented as high-level descriptions of a general idea. They cannot be detailed Pokemon designs. Since we have polls to determine each aspect of the Pokemon, we cannot allow any specific features of the Pokemon to be determined by the details of the Concept.

We intentionally have many rules regarding Concept submissions. If you are not prepared to read and understand all the rules, then don't bother making a submission. These rules are made to help narrow the field of concepts down to those that have been carefully designed. This is not meant to be easy for everyone -- a good, legal Concept requires careful thought and meticulous wording.

The following rules must be followed when submitting a Concept:

• One submission per person. You may edit your Concept, but you may not change the fundamental premise after it has been posted. If editing your concept, please edit the original post instead of posting a new revision. Do not bump your Concept after you have posted it. If people do not comment on it, so be it.
• Do not duplicate or closely-resemble Concepts already posted by others. It is your responsibility to read through all previous submissions in this thread to ensure you are complying with this rule. Ignorance or laziness is not an excuse.
• Specific Pokemon types or type combos cannot be included or excluded in a Concept. Nor can other characteristics of the Concept specifically result in in the inclusion or exclusion of Types. For example, the following phrases would be illegal:
  "This is a Dragon Pokemon with..."
  "The Pokemon should be immune to Ghost attacks..."
  "The Pokemon should have at least 7 resistances..."
  "The Pokemon should get STAB on Thunderbolt.."​
• Specific Abilities are not allowed. This applies to existing abilities and new abilities. Do not attempt to circumvent this rule by mentioning specific battle effects that can only be achieved by the implementation of an ability. For example, the following phrases would be illegal:
  "This Pokemon should have a defensive ability like Intimidate or Marvel Scale..."
  "This Pokemon has an ability that steals the opponent's held item..."
  "When this Pokemon is switched in, all weather conditions are nullified..."​
• Movepools or lists of moves are not allowed. A specific move can be mentioned if it is the basis for the entire concept. For example, the Concept "Rapid Spinner" would obviously mention the move Rapid Spin.
• Specific stat bias, base stats, or base stat ratings are not allowed. It is acceptable to use descriptive phrases like "fast", "bulky", "strong attacker", etc -- since there are a variety of ways a Pokemon can fit those descriptions without specifically requiring certain stats. But, do not use overly-specific descriptions that would narrowly constrain the Pokemon's base stat spread.
• Indications of Physical/Special bias are discouraged, but acceptable if it is essential to the Concept.
• Do not refer to any part of the Pokemon's artistic design. For example, the following phrases would be illegal:
  "This is a bright blue Pokemon..."
  "The Pokemon looks like a..."
  "The Pokemon uses its long tail to..."​
• A Concept Submission must be submitted in the proper format. The format is described below. If the proper format is not used, the moderators will not evaluate the submission, regardless of content.

Concept Submission Format

Use this format for all concept submissions:

Quote:
Name: (short name)
General Description: (See rules below. No more than a sentence or two here.)
Justification: (See rules below.)
Questions To Be Answered: (See rules below.)

Explanation: (Whatever you want to say here.)
Here is the format with tags. Just copy/paste this into your post, and fill it out:
Quote:
Name: (short name)
General Description: (See rules below. No more than a sentence or two here.)
Justification: (See rules below.)
Questions To Be Answered: (See rules below.)

Explanation: (Whatever you want to say here.)

• Name - Don't get too clever with the name. If the essence of the concept is not intuitively obvious in the name, then you are hurting your chances of people understanding it. If the essence of your concept cannot be expressed in a few words, then you need to seriously re-evaluate your concept.
• Description - This is the official description of the concept, and must follow ALL the content rules listed above. Do not make this a long description. Long descriptions are invariably too specific or too convoluted. Keep it short. Any more than a sentence or two is TOO MUCH. Do NOT include your Explanation of the concept in the Description. See "Explanation" below.
• Justification - A few sentences describing how the concept satisfies one or more of the following:
  • Has a positive effect on the metagame (e.g Fidgit’s Pure Utility)
  • Allows us to learn more about the metagame (e.g Kitsunoh’s Ultimate Scout)
  • Introduces a new niche in the metagame (such as Arghonaut’s Decentralizer)
  
  Do not make up your own categories for justification. If you cannot justify your concept against at least one of the three requirements above, then your concept is illegal for the CAP project.
• Questions To Be Answered - The purpose of the CAP project is to learn new things about the metagame, and each concept submission is a proposed "experiment". List out a few interesting competitive questions that should be answered after properly implementing your concept. At the conclusion of the CAP project, these questions will be revisited to see how well we implemented the concept. If your questions are not significant, relevant to your Justification, and well-written -- then your concept will be rejected.
• Explanation - This can contain just about anything. This is where you can explain your concept without restraint. You may make suggestions, even specific suggestions, regarding the possible implementation of the Concept. This explanation should help facilitate discussion of the Concept -- but the Explanation is NOT part of the Concept and will be omitted from the polls and any future use of the Concept. Since your explanation is non-binding, regarding future polls and threads, it will not be evaluated for purposes of determining if your concept is legal or illegal.

It is the submitter's responsibility to figure out how to make a legal submission within the rules listed above. Do not complain about the difficulty of making a submission in this thread. There are many, many legal concepts that can be presented within the rules. Here are few examples of good and bad Concepts from previous projects:

Good Concepts from Past Projects
"Pure Utility Pokemon"
"Anti-Ghost Rapid Spinner"
"True Garchomp Counter"
"Great Lead Pokemon"
"Ultimate Weather Abuser"
"Status Counter"

Bad Concepts from Past Projects
"Ice-Resisting Dragon"
"Super Luck User"
"STAB Explosion Glass Cannon"
"Auto-Stealth Rock Remover"
"A Pokemon with Special Intimidate"
"Pyrokinetic Pokemon (Fire/Psychic)"
"Special Guts"
"Typing Means Nothing"

Here's a sample of a legal Concept post. This is not an actual submission. I'm just using it to illustrate the format and legal content:

Concept: "Venusaur of the Hail"
Description: A good pokemon with a varied movepool under normal conditions. However, it becomes a dangerous sweeping force in icy weather.

Justification: Hail is very rarely used in the current metagame. This concept could make Hail teams playable in OU, much like Venusaur almost single-handedly makes Sun teams viable in OU. We will learn more about icy weather battling strategies in OU, and the pokemon that can use Hail to their advantage.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Are Hail teams more viable with "Venusaur of the Hail" in OU?
• Which battle strategies are most effective and least effective using Hail in OU?
• Which OU pokemon can best use Hail to their advantage?
• Which lesser-used pokemon become relevant with "Venusaur of the Hail" in OU?
• Is "Venusaur of the Hail" viable in OU under normal weather conditions?

Explanation: A good Hail abuser would be fresh and fun. Typing could be just about anything, although Ice is the most obvious. Poison typing might be interesting to help with the Fighting and Bug attacks that tend to plague Hail teams. Ice Body or Snow Cloak would seem like obvious abilities to consider, but abilities like Sheer Force would work better for spamming Blizzard, demonstrating that there are lots of nice abilities that could help this thing do its job.

Note that all the "illegal stuff" is in the Explanation. The Description is short, and very carefully worded to follow all the rules. It does not specifically dictate anything in later polls.

Please try to remember that we are simply pointing the project in a general direction, we are not trying to decide anything right now. We have several weeks of polls ahead of us where EVERYTHING about this Pokemon will be dissected, discussed, voted, and decided. The Concept is a very basic guide for the creation process. It is difficult to provide solid Concept descriptions without essentially designing the entire Pokemon right off the bat. Submissions should be written and chosen very carefully, to avoid these problems.


What am I looking for?

This CAP is being designed in the context of several "firsts". It will be the first CAP of the Fifth Generation. It will be the first CAP since the implementation of Wi-Fi Clause (that is, team preview). It will be the first CAP to exist in a metagame in which Drought and Drizzle are legal. Try to keep these "firsts" in mind when designing your concept--if the concept would have worked just as well in Fourth Generation, it is probably not what we are hoping to learn about!

I would particularly like to note that I am extremely philosophically opposed to the notion of custom abilities and moves, particularly this early in Fifth Generation, when we have already been given such a vast array of new abilities and moves to explore. Please do not design concepts that would rely heavily on custom abilities or moves.

If you have any questions or would like feedback about your submission, feel free to PM me, Rising_Dusk, or both! Let's start Fifth Generation off with a bang, and make a great CAP!
​

 

[HD]

I am reusing the concept "Pure Utility Pokemon" which was introduced in CaP4 by the uses Magmortified and Aldaron. While I don't particularly care whether this concept wins (although that would be nice), it'd be better to reuse a concept before making a completely new one simply because we have a rough idea of how it should end up; as well as the fact that Gen5 is new and we don't have a good grasp of the metagame as we should to have the liberty of making completely new concepts. With that out of the way here is Magmortified's and Aldaron's original concept for reference:

Description: There is a serious lack of Gravity, Rapid Spin, Wish, non Dark weak Trick Room, OU viable Heal Bell / Aromatherapy, Encore, Memento, Non Dark weak Perish Song, Psycho Shift, Safeguard, Magic Coat, Me First, Snatch, Spikes, Toxic Spikes, Tailwind and Haze Pokemon in our lovely Metagame. I don't know what type, what stat distribution or even what kind of Pokemon would effectively use all those, but I want to build a utility Pokemon for the useful yet less used utility moves. If I had to narrow the field a bit, I would emphasize Tailwind, Gravity, non Dark weak Trick Room, Rapid Spin, Wish and Encore. The normal utility moves like Reflect and Light Screen go without saying.

Since this concept was made before we ironed out CaP concepts, I'll put it in proper formatting (fuck). On account from reachzero's and Rising_Duck's criticism, I have changed my concept as to (hopefully) not result in another Fidgit.

Name: Pure Support Pokemon

General Description: This Pokemon should be able to support its team with keeping and regaining momentum, setting up sweeps and disrupting enemy tactics through multiple means including stats, movepool and typing.

Justification: Generation 5 has added many threats, but not as many support based Pokemon. The list of new support based Pokemon is frighteningly small, being made up of Nattorei/Ferrothorn, Agirudaa, Vagina Barujiina, Burungeru, and a couple others. While we still got the more offensive Pokemon that use support type moves (ie Reunicles), they mostly use those moves to support themselves. The introduction of the Miracle of Evolution also allows the utilization of many more support-based Pokemon like Murkrow. However, there are few Pokemon that can do all of the aforementioned things. Most of the Pokemon mentioned can disrupt enemy tactics, however most of them can't set up sweeps or keep/get back momentum. Most of the more stall Pokemon (Burungeru, Ferrothorn, Vagina) can't get back momentum, and Murkrow and other Pokemon that fuck up the opponent's team don't actually set up sweeps for their own teammates. This Pokemon should plan to be able to do them all.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Can we mirror the succes Fidgit had in the 4th Generation?
• Will CaP1 outshine the support move users of Generation 5?
• Will CaP1 be able to stand up to the new hard hitters of 5th Generation and the old Pros of 4th Generation so it can set up?
• How will CaP1 affect team compositions?

Explanation: This will be a bright purple dragon-type with at least 11 resistances...

 

[capefeather]

Concept: Weather Slayer

Description: This Pokémon exploits weaknesses in a team built around any weather condition to pose a large threat to the opposing team as a whole, analogously to the way in which offensive lead Machamp was used to exploit the lead metagame in Generation IV.

Justification: Weather is probably the most controversial subject in this generation today. A Pokémon created with this concept could contribute to metagame diversity by making teams that don't necessarily exploit a weather condition more viable. As well, this concept could allow the community to explore how "weather teams" can be checked effectively, and how "weather teams" can adapt to a threat like CAP 1.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Will a "weather slayer" allow strategies not dependent on weather to be more effective?
• Which threats should a "weather slayer" concentrate on checking or countering directly?
• Which lesser-used Pokémon become more relevant and viable with a "weather slayer" in the metagame?
• Which OU Pokémon can best use the help of a "weather slayer" to their advantage?
• How effective is the "weather slayer" outside of checking opposing weather-based strategies?
• Can less common weather-based teams use the "weather slayer" to counter other weather-based teams to become more viable?
• Are all weather conditions worth "slaying"?

Explanation: There is a wide variety of possibilities for this concept. The huge versatility of weather-based teams makes a comprehensive counter nigh-impossible, which is why the general idea is to be able to set up on a few key threats, such as the weather setters themselves. CAP 1 could be a SubPuncher or a bulky SD priority sweeper or even a defensive Pokémon with key characteristics. Contributors are encouraged to look beyond "obvious" abilities such as Cloud Nine, Trace, Chlorophyll, and Sand Rush, toward the many abilities that have been granted to the community in this generation to impose immunities to damage both direct and residual. This CAP is also sort of a throwback to CAP 1 from last generation (Syclant), who had the ability Mountaineer to mitigate the effects of Stealth Rock, a defining characteristic of Generation IV.

 

[Staraptor Call]

Name: Divergent
General Description: A Pokemon that can have two or three very different roles on a team, but cannot have more than one at once.
Justification: One of the largest changes in the generation switch was introduction of Team Preview. Now that players can see each others' teams, it has become much more difficult for them to hide information from their opponents, because players can no longer hide late-game sweepers or other such surprises. Movesets are the only elements of Pokemon that players still have to scout, and the only way to hide information from ones opponent is to use an unexpected moveset. A Divergent Pokemon would let us learn more about how players surprise each other with unexpected movesets and try to figure out their opponents' movesets. It would let players create a bigger difference between the way their opponent expects the Pokemon to be and the way it actually is, thus making the surprise's payoff greater. It would also force the player battling against such a Pokemon to determine which divergent role the Pokemon was using.
Questions To Be Answered:

• How valuable is the element of surprise in the Gen V metagame?
• To what extent did the introduction of Team Preview "kill" scouting?
• How do battlers handle large amounts of uncertainty about their opponents' movesets?
• How can players best scout movesets?
• How do battlers withhold information about their Pokemon's sets?
• How can we make a Pokemon fill a few very different roles, but not roles in between?

Explanation: Giving a Pokemon very different roles is best done with abilities. The Pokemon could, for example, have a defensive ability and an offensive ability. The Pokemon could also be given conflicting Egg, Move Tutor, and Dream World moves. So that neither the offensive role nor the defensive role is much better than the other, the Pokemon should have balanced stats. Physical/Special bias is not as important to the concept.

 

[Korski]

I'm going to resubmit a concept I proposed for CAP 9 that I think has even more relevance to the gen. 5 metagame than it did way back when in gen. 4 (touched up a bit to reflect obvious metagame changes).

Name: Momentum

General Description: This will be a Pokemon that can be utilized to gain or regain momentum for a player's team at any point in the match as its primary function.

Justification: Gen. 5 is a very powerful metagame. As such, most battles are won by the smarter strategist who can best maneuver around his/her opponent's onslaught to gain even a single turn's advantage, potentially clinching them the match. This process of gaining and regaining momentum is most often the defining element that makes a winner and a loser out of a single Pokemon battle. Any top player in this metagame should agree that momentum is the most crucial element in any given match; however, "momentum" itself is a rather vaguely defined term that is never really explored in concrete terms. Is it keeping opposing teams on the defensive? Forcing switches? Good prediction? Spamming U-turn? These have all been approaches to achieving momentum, but they are also player-side and largely synonymous with "strategy," as opposed to Pokemon-side and regarding a Pokemon's role on the team. Certainly there are threats like Ferrothorn/Gliscor (defensive) and Scizor/Latios/Voltlos, etc., etc. (offensive) that can achieve momentum as we know it, but there is no current niche for a "momentum Pokemon" because the concept has been purely delegated to players and not to Pokemon.

Questions to be Answered:
-How do we define momentum in terms of competitive Pokemon? What factors make current Pokemon able to achieve momentum and how can we incorporate that information into a successful CAP?
-How do different styles of play (Weather-based offense, stall, bulky offense, etc.) use momentum to achieve their goals and how can our CAP play to those strategies in an effort to take their momentum away?
-What type of traditional role (sweeper, tank, wall, support) would a Pokemon like this most resemble? Would it have to be able to fit more than one of these roles to fit in a variety of teams?
-How will the different playstyles be affected by the addition of a Pokemon that can regain offensive/defensive momentum at any given point? Will offensive teams play more conservatively? Will defensive teams play more recklessly? Will everything simply adapt to a new threat and move on normally?

Explanation: This concept should teach us just as much about the metagame during its creation process than through actual playtesting, especially in the Concept Assessment, where the community should be looking to the metagame as a whole to analyze how successful teams and players gain, regain, and maintain momentum. Since momentum has largely been defined at the discretion of the battling community and takes many forms, so too could this CAP. Scizor, Blissey, Skarmory, Magnezone, Celebi, Jirachi (Celebi and Jirachi are great examples, due to their versatility), Heatran, Balloon Heatran, etc. can all achieve momentum according to their strengths, yet all are very different. Now, I'm not about to suggest that this CAP should be able to check everything in the metagame; that's not the goal here. What it should be able to do, though, is pose a reasonable threat in some manner to a good chunk of the metagame, enough to make opponents think twice about staying in or at least think very hard about what to switch into this Pokemon. A Pokemon with almost no offensive presence can do this just as well as a blunt instrument kind of Poke.

 

[DarkSlay]

Concept: "Lead"-ing the New Generation!

Description: A good, balanced Pokemon that can both excel in the lead position and have decent synergy with its teammates in said position.

Justification: The advent of the Wi-Fi clause created a lot of controversy when it was first revealed. Many speculated that it would be the end to leads as we knew them from Generation IV, creating an era of counter strategy when it comes to team positioning. Now that Generation V has come about, Wi-Fi clause pretty much has fulfilled this prophecy, and teams now tend to focus not on leads but rather six-Pokemon strategies such as Sand, Rain, and Stall.

However, while all of this said is true, leads have yet to be proven as useless. Certain Pokemon still are balanced enough to lead the team in most situations (Machamp, Infernape, and Metagross are still very useful in their original roles as leads, for example, as well as new leads such as Mienshao and Thundurus). What if we were to create a Pokemon that could gain a great start for most teams regardless of the opponent's positioning of his/her team? This Pokemon could open the door towards a more stable metagame, allowing teams that do not employ "six-Pokemon strategies" to succeed as well as turning the Wi-Fi clause not into some useless, but much harder and more strategic to use. Also, as a result, this Pokemon could also re-introduce the "lead core" theory with decent synergy, such as HeatChamp in Gen IV.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Are the terms "Lead" and "Anti-Lead" still viable in a metagame where both players are aware of the opponent's team, via Wi-Fi clause?
• What is the definition of a "Lead"? Has it evolved into something more than what leads once were, or can they still play a similar role as in the past?
• How will the metagame be affected if stable leads were re-introduced into the environment? Can leads be consistent in the fast-paced Generation V metagame?
• Is the term "Lead" subject to just one Pokemon by itself, or can two Pokemon coexist as a lead core for teams? What other Pokemon will be able to lead if we introduced a stable lead?
• Are leads that employ entry hazards, such as Spikes and Stealth Rock, still useful a metagame that relies heavily on mid-game hazard walls and tanks, such as Ferrothorn? Or has the term "Lead" changed into a constant "Anti-Lead"?
• What can we stand to learn from the Wi-Fi Clause? Will this Pokemon enable us to study the advantages and disadvantages of this new clause?

Explanation: I feel that while weather and such has been such a huge impact on the new metagame, the Wi-Fi Clause has definitely had the greatest impact. As the first CAP project of this generation, I feel that it is important that we study the impact team organization has on battles. By far, understanding how the Wi-Fi Clause affects a metagame should be a top priority. This concept allows us to delve into this style of thinking. This Pokemon should excel in the lead position, while being a moderate/above average Pokemon outside of it. I don't envision this Pokemon becoming a sweeper of any sort, but I do envision it being strong enough to take out opposing leads well enough (whether "strength" is determined by stats or movepool is to be determined in itself).

This concept also opens the doors wide open on creativity. It doesn't pin us down to one or two abilities or types, nor does it really force us to use certain moves. This concept is more or less about finding out what works: an experimental process is just what we need to kick of Generation V CAP.

 

[LightningLord2]

Concept: Diverse Sand Sweeper
Description: A sweeper-oriented Pokemon for Sandstorm teams that can sweep in several different ways

Justification: We've seen both Excadrill and Landorus as good Sand sweepers, but they have a fairly thin movepool, making them easy to predict and counter. With a more diverse sweeper, it would be harder to counter Sand Offense teams, allowing this previously stall-only weather to go that route.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What traits should such a sweeper have to gain the maximum out of Sandstorm?
• Can this pokemon make Sand Offense teams viable?
• How would people deal with an offense-based Sandstorm team?
• Will it create a new style or just sit around in stall teams?

Explanation: Most Sandstorm teams are just pure defense, whereas Sun, Rain and Hail team can pack both stallers (e.g. Leafeon, Vaporeon and Walrein) and sweepers (e.g. Victreebel, Kingdra and Froslass) and play either style. It would be a very interesting change to see Sandstorm rise up in offensive prowess.

 

[reachzero]

Name: Pure Support Pokemon

General Description: This Pokemon should be able to use most support moves effectively in the current metagame.

I think there are a few 4th Gen CAP concepts that would look very different in 5th Gen (mostly Decentralizer), but I think this one would give us a product that would look very, very much like Fidgit--Fidgit was very close to "optimized" in terms of support. I am curious about the role of "pure support" in Gen 5, but I think the concept needs to be distanced a bit conceptually from Fidgit. Fidgit and Wobbuffet both are pure support Pokemon, for instance, but the forms of support they offer are very different. Perhaps modify the concept to move it away from such a heavy focus on movepool?

Concept: Weather Slayer

Description: This Pokémon exploits weaknesses in a team built around any weather condition to pose a large threat to the opposing team as a whole, analogously to the way in which offensive lead Machamp was used to exploit the lead metagame in Generation IV.

Part of what I like about this concept is that while it focuses on Weather, it is not entirely Weather dependent for success, and so side-steps the issues of the tiering process entirely. Also, I don't think anyone can question the relevance of this concept to the Gen 5 OU metagame.

Name: Divergent
General Description: A Pokemon that can have two or three very different roles on a team, but cannot have more than one at once.

I think this is a better and more complex concept that it appears at first glance. It is a lot easier to build a Pokemon like Jolteon or Stratagem that plays one role and plays it very well than it is to build one like Gyarados, that acts as a wall and a sweeper nearly equally well. Of course, the interesting part would be "building evenly", making sure one role doesn't totally outshine the other (why use WishMence when you could be using DD Mence?).

Name: Momentum

General Description: This will be a Pokemon that can be utilized to gain or regain momentum for a player's team at any point in the match as its primary function.

I think this is a good concept, mostly because "momentum" is vague enough that the Pokemon could take a vast array of stat spreads or type combinations: it could be a transitional Pokemon like Bronzong or a very threatening Pokemon like Volcarona, or a number of other things in between. At the same time, it isn't so vague as to be directionless.

Concept: "Lead"-ing the New Generation!

Description: A good, balanced Pokemon that can both excel in the lead position and have decent synergy with its teammates in said position.

The question of whether teams in Gen 5 even need or should use a team lead is totally in Limbo right now, so I think this concept is strong as is.

Concept: Diverse Sand Sweeper
Description: A sweeper-oriented Pokemon for Sandstorm teams that can sweep in several different ways

Considering how utterly dominant Sand offense has tended to be on the ladder (I would estimate more than a third of all the teams I see high on the ladder involve Sand offense), I don't think Sand needs anything to make it more viable offensively. In fact, it is pretty telling that each of the Sand sweepers you mentioned have been Suspects before.

 

[Galladiator]

Concept: Defensive Revenge Killer

Description: A fast, Attack-oriented Pokemon to switch in, revenge kill, then be able to continue momentum by sweeping

Justification: Most key revenge killers, like Jolteon or Scizor, not only have common weaknesses, but are also relatively frail to boot, often faling after only one super-effective attack--or sometimes a strong, STABed neutral or even NVE attack. A high-Defense and/or Special Defense on either of these, along with more beneficial typing, would have allowed Jolteon to rise higher in OU, and might have pushed Scizor to the brink of Ubers.

Questions to be Answered:

• Would this revenge killer be able to check many of its teammates' common counters?
• Does its ability help or harm its revenge killing or sweeping?
• How fast would it need to be to sufficiently revenge most, if not all, of the metagame's top sweepers?
• How wide should its priority movepool be?

Explanation: As previously stated, almost the only real reasons Jolteon is almost UU and Scizor isn't Uber are typing and defenses. This CAP would be fast enough to revenge kill opponents, ideally with an unresisted type combo, then be versatile enough to stay in and sweep or set up, even against its checks. The theory is that it could take a super-effective attack for, say, 60% or less damage, then one- or two-shot the opponent with STAB and priority.

 

[Aerodactyl Legend]

If I could continue discussion. These statements are my opinion, be aware of that.

First, I want to say that I'm not going to submit a concept for this CAP (for reasons explained in the next paragraph). There are only a couple of concepts I really want to focus on which have just been posted already.

I always like to point out that though we have been playing B/W for a while at this point, it's obviously still in an early phase. 5th Gen analyses aren't finished yet meaning that a lot of people would still try to experiment with movesets instead of using the best ones. Not only that, not all items and Pokemon (including one's with DW abilities) have even been released yet. In my opinion, because of this, our first CAP shouldn't be made off a concept based on complex strategies and trends that could change within the next couple of months. We should stick to more simple or clearer concepts that would always stay relevant to the game itself. Reachzero also makes a good point that we should keep the fact that this CAP would be amidst several "firsts." I for one think that we strongly adhere to this. Of course we shouldn't base our concept exclusively on it, wouldn't it make much more sense to build our CAP with these in mind? That's not to say we can't be creative however. If a concept is deemed interesting, we could try it out regardless.

On to actual submissions. First, I'm strongly against reusing concepts from the previous eleven CAPs. Sure, we have a new generation to work with, but I think it would be most beneficial to always try out new concepts. Though moderation can help, who's to say we wouldn't be making "Fidgit 2?" To be made purely for utility moves, it would make sense that you should have decent speed, defenses, a good defensive type combination, and useful abilities, all which Fidgit has. For feedback on the submitted concepts, the ones that I like the most are those that have to do with the biggest or most important/influential matters in B/W at this stage. Bans/changes in the future shouldn't affect whether these "matters" stay relevant.

Capefeather's Weather Slayer is what I'd like see being implemented most so far. I think weather will continue to hold a strong presence in the 5th Gen. I once stated in the past that maybe we shouldn't completely focus on countering weather. We didn't know what would happen to the whole Drizzle problem and what would result if any changes were made. Now using Drizzle and Swift Swim together is not allowed. It's been long enough for us to make some observations on changes. Sandstorm and sun is still free to be abused the way rain was. Not only that, strategies for rain teams without using Swift Swim are still available (including the use of moves that benfit from the rain: Water moves, Thunder, Hurricane).

DarkSlay's and Staraptor Call's concepts are great since we know the effects that Team Reveal has on the standard metagame. It won't disappear and it won't change. There is a lot of controversy surrounding it so a CAP that could help out in making things less predictable would be nice. I'm sort of leaning towards Darkslay's concept a bit since I would like to study leads a bit more this generation. Dedicated/specific leads are not as effective now as in the gen 4, and I'm wondering if it is possible to create a Pokemon fulfulling that role. Staraptor Call's concept is decent, though the general description seems more like its about creating a Jack-of-all-Trades. However, in the submission's justification he brings a good point that pretty much all we have to scout for now is actual movesets. A diverse movepool would make it hard to counter the Pokemon right away.

Admiral Korski's concept is great. There have been many matches I've been through which I've made one mistake or I haven't been prepared for a certain threat and been swept because of it. Some Pokemon are helpful in stopping the sweep and possibly getting your team back on its feet, but I find those Pokemon rare. A Pokemon created not only to do this, but also gain momentum in general would be ideal in this hard-hitting metagame. However, I strongly think this concept is more suited to a later phase of the game when we'd completely know of all the threats to watch out for. I think it should be saved for a future CAP.

Sorry to say this LightningLord2, but a diverse sand sweeper is definitely something I don't want to see right now. In gen 4 Sandstorm teams were mostly about defense. That isn't the case for gen 5 anymore with guys like Excadrill and Landlos. Sure, they may have tight movepools, but together, and with the right team members, the tight movepools become very little of an issue.

 

[Deck Knight]

Name: Non-Trivial Pursuit

General Description: A Pokemon that can effectively trap and kill major new threats while not being totally hampered by the powerful new Pursuit-resistant threats.

Justification: Remember how Scarftar shocked the DPP OU metagame to its core and created a trapping threat that nigh-eliminated anything weak to dark? With all of the new Dark-resistant bulky offensive threats and high-impact Fighting Pokemon generally, using Pursuit to punish an opponent has fallen by the wayside. Not because Dark-weak Pokemon are any less prevalent. In fact, powerful Psychic Pokemon and a few new Ghosts are experiencing a veritable Renaissance.

Questions To Be Answered:

• How viable is non-ability trapping in the era of Team Preview and bulky offense?
• Would a powerful new Pursuit user dramatically rebalance the 5th Generation Metagame, or is it so diverse that one Pokemon cannot hope to overcome all the new threats?
• Weather teams rely a great deal on keeping their weather starters alive, even for a last miniute sacrifice to Stealth Rock damage. If there was a Pokemon that could almost guarantee the downfall of a weather starter how would that impact weather team viability in general?
• The Six Pokemon Strategy Mindset also relies heavily on keeping specific Pokemon alive based on team preview. How much would the introduction of a single Pokemon that can punish that mindset alter its use or prevalence?

Explanation: The strongest Pursuit users in DPP got a gigantic "up yours" from the introduction of a a bajillion strong Fighting types, not least of which is Conkeldurr who can eat anything they throw at him and wipe out with a Mach Punch in retailiation. There exists no niche for a Pokemon that can stand its own against these threats but also provide the punishment to powerful Psychic, Ghost, and generally frail opponents the likes of Scarftar and CB Scizor used to provide.

I will admit the concept is somewhat limiting in that it almost begs for Dark STAB and a subtyping that can address Fighters, but it performs a niche that Tyranitar and Scizor no longer can, a niche that is badly missing in the 5th Generation metagame. With weather abilities running rampant and the new team preview mechanics, keeping specific Pokemon alive to counter an opponent's team has become a greater priority than ever, and most weather starters have the tools to check the standard bearers DPP brought to the table.

 

[Rising_Dusk]

Name: Pure Support Pokemon

There's nothing wrong or against the rules of reusing the DPP concepts for BW, however, be forewarned that many of these concepts simply would replicate what we've already made! Let me echo reach's sentiment here by saying that Fidgit's concept "Pure Support" translated to BW would result in Fidgit. This is similar for many other concepts we used as well! So let's try to specify a bit more and concentrate on what's unique about that concept in this generation; sell it for the new metagame, not the old one.

I'd also like to emphasize that the questions a submission asks in "Questioned to be asked" are probably the most important to me when it comes to selling a concept. If your questions really don't ask anything meaningful, or ask questions we already know the answers to, then either the concept needs a lot more development or more thought needs to be put into why the concept is so valuable to the CAP. For instance...

Concept: Defensive Revenge Killer

Would this revenge killer be able to properly capitalize off of its Defenses?

Of course it would! What Pokemon cannot capitalize on its own bulk? Questions like these offer no real insight into what your concept offers. If you honestly can't think of better questions, then the reality is that the concept is likely not very meaningful. Unfortunately, in the case of simply adding 'defensive' before 'revenge killer', that is likely true.

Concept: Diverse Sand Sweeper
Description: A sweeper-oriented Pokemon for Sandstorm teams that can sweep in several different ways

I'm concerned about this in relation to the fifth generation metagame, as much of what made sand so brutal in BW is the inclusion of two Pokemon expertly capable of abusing it: Excadrill and Landlos. I think that we should be focusing on creating something a little more jarring to the metagame than this, especially considering how we'd only be adding fuel to the fire of sandstorm's prevalence in OU. Additionally, because of these two BW Pokemon being added, we've really seen sand's sweeping potential explored quite intricately (Both Sand Throw and Sand Power have seen good use).

 

[Galladiator]

Of course it would! What Pokemon cannot capitalize on its own bulk? Questions like these offer no real insight into what your concept offers. If you honestly can't think of better questions, then the reality is that the concept is likely not very meaningful.

Understood; post has been edited, as I came up with a more relevant question.

 

[mudkipmaster]

Concept: Defensive Baton Pass
Explanation: A more defensively based baton passer, therefore, removing from the passer the ability to sweep on its own.

Justification: Baton Pass users and teams have dramatically dropped in ranking. Most of this is that users are so frail they must use a focus sash. There strategy is seriously ruined though when either hail, sand, entry hazards, or fake out breaks a sash without breaking a sweat.

Questions to be answered:
-Would this Pokémon be broken?
-Would hail and sand still threaten this passer?
-Would entry hazards be a problem for this Pokémon?
-Does this allow you to pass to frail, diverse Pokémon who were earlier unable to sweep?

Explanation: A stat raising Pokémon who also learns Baton Pass, and can take a few neutral hits. This Pokémon would not need to force switches to set-up, and it could get a sub up if a switch is made. I do see unaware being a major threat to this Pokémon and would most likely do quite a bit of damage too.

 

[Alchemator]

Concept: Chipper jabber
Description: A Pokémon that is designed to gradually wear away the opponent so that it, or another Pokémon, may sweep.

Justification: In Gen5 we are seeing major offensive powers coming into play, utilising brute force until their counters are destroyed and they can, again, brute force their way through the rest of the team. A Pokémon that can use chip damage to its advantage will create a new niche in the metagame, allowing us to see whether brute force is the only strategy or whether maybe a more 'passive' style is also viable.

Questions To Be Answered:

• How does the introduction of the Chipper CAP affect the usage of offensive playstyles?
• How does the Chipper CAP fare against the other playstyles in OU?
• Which Pokémon can be paired with the Chipper CAP for the best results?
• How does the Chipper CAP shake up usage of Pokémon in the OU metagame?
• How does the Chipper CAP coincide with existing strategies?

Explanation: Let's face it, we've all been swept by a Doryuuzu/Excadrill at least once, simply because it's so fast and so powerful. Is it viable to take a slower approach to a sweep while maintaining an offensive team? This could be compared to stall, but this concept seeks more to maintain momentum and gradually wear down the opponent's team rather than using the strategies that stall employs.

 

[bugmaniacbob]

Dammit my computer froze and then when I get back on capefeather nicks the concept I was going to post...

Name: Slowing the Pace

Description: A Pokemon that can break the momentum of the opposing team consistently, but not obtain momentum for its own team, while not being a liability.

Justification: Okay this is going to be pretty hard to justify/explain properly but whatever. The 5th Gen metagame is currently entrenched in what appears to be a Speed war, where everything rests on power and the ability to hit first, hence why weather offence teams are so strong. The net result in this is that, unlike in previous generations, the cost of wasting even a single turn can be disastrous. Everything depends on momentum, gaining it, retaining it, and following it through. If something isn't doing anything meaningful, it's wasting turns and gets punished. Even defensive Pokemon need some kind of meaningful offence, and even past that they don't have any room for optional extras. The net result of all this is that, unlike in previous generations, there are no Pokemon that can just sit there and dick about to halt the opponent. Everything has to be hitting back.

What do we expect to gain from this? Let me make it quite clear that I am NOT suggesting Shuckle v2. And I am not talking about stall teams either.This is about something that has almost vanished from competitive play - the ability to break the opponent's momentum on one's own terms (though this is debatable, in my experience there has been a significant reduction in momentum-breakers in the new generation). This would allow us to investigate how we can break the stranglehold of offensive teams, and reintroduce the ability to buy oneself free turns to plan one's strategy.

Questions To Be Answered:

• How is it possible to break the opponent's momentum consistently, without making the Pokemon overpowered?
• How viable is the stall mentality in Gen V - that buying oneself extra turns can counter the loss in offensive momentum?
• Does the ability to freely use turns without fear of running out of time counter the possible reduction in ability elsewhere?
• Would this Pokemon cause a shift towards a more defensive metagame, or in any way reduce the "Speed Creep" effect?
• How would this Pokemon be able to mesh with the five other Pokemon on its team in order to create a coherent strategy.

Explanation: First of all, I'm not even suggesting that this Pokemon is defensively inclined (because I know how much you all love offensive Pokemon). After all, you don't need to be defensive necessarily to break momentum. However, it would help, since the keyword is "consistently". I would envisage this Pokemon as being heavily defensive, with a typing devoid of common weaknesses, and moderate to mediocre offensive power, with the ability to stop Pokemon setting up on it, be this through ability, access to Haze/Taunt/whatever, or just weathering the assaults. In particular, this Pokemon should have a way to answer weather teams, as they are the most dangerous offensive presence at the moment, but not "counter" them per se - simply stop them from rampaging. Slow the game down, as it were.

 

[zarator]

Concept: Good Stuff

General Description: A very good Pokémon who doesn't fit in a specific themed playstyle but instead plays as a standalone.

Justification: Most teams revolve around a theme in gen V, one way or another. The most apparent example is Sand Offense/Stall, but it's not the only one. Despite this gen being full of Pokémon who work very well as a standalone, they are very rarely used (the most notable exception being probably Reuniclus). If we create a Pokémon who doesn't promote the same Rain, Sand, Trick Room teams and what not - but rather, more diverse and original ones, built around "good stuffs", the resulting discussions could highlight some ideas for building original teams in current OU.


Questions to be answered:

• Which traits do a Pokémon need to work as a standalone force?
• Which kinds of types/stats/abilities/movepool work towards this capability and which doesn't, and why?
• Which kind of teams do this Pokémon promote? Sand teams, Rain teams, theme-unrelated teams?
• Does this Pokémon work better or worse in themed teams?
• What does a theme-unrelated team need to fight themed ones on an equal foot?

Explaination: We have many open possibilities to realize this concept, although it becomes obvious that once we decide the first aspects (like role, or typing), the following ones will take a more defined direction. From a powerful and diverse Flying-typed sweeper to a versatile Poison-typed wall to a Fighting-typed supportive annoyer, the paths are many and interesting. The only thing we should be careful about is creating a Pokémon who has a strong theme-related trait. A speedy Water-typed special sweeper, a slow Pokémon with high offenses and recovery and a Pokémon with Sand Veil or Ice Body are all examples of what should be avoided. Although I understand that such a concept may seem too broad, I think we can easily fix it in the Concept Assessment step. Once we decide which role (sweeper, wall or supportive) this Pokémon should adheere to, everything (from typing onwards) will be way more obvious (for example, if we decide for wall, types like Dark or Ice can most likely be ruled out, same with sweeper and Poison or Normal).

 

[Paradox]

Concept: Save Stall!

General Description: This pokemon would aim to revitalize stall in the fifth generation

Justification: Stall has become far less viable in the fifth generation. Hazards are harder to set/keep up, supporters are easily disrupted or set up on, and pokemon are hitting harder and faster than ever. By aiming to revitalize stall, we would be able to pinpoint what problems stall faces, and explore a traditionally huge portion of the metagame.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Can stall be viable with the powerful new threats introduced this generation?
• How can hazards be consistently set up and abused with the ease of spinning or otherwise preventing hazards this generation?
• How can reopening an entire playstyle effect the turbulent metagame of the 5th gen? Would it serve to balance offensive threats, or just make threat lists longer and more difficult to account for?
• The utility of Team Preview on a stall team has been brought up, but never deeply explored. Could increasing the prevalence of stall make the role of Team Preview on a stall team, or in general, more clear?

Explanation: The introduction of Rapid Spin Excadrill, which beats every ghost one-on-one, Magic Mirror, and Reuniclus, not to mention the abundance of absurdly powerful attacks thrown around, all make laying down hazards, walling the opponent, and wearing their pokemon down harder than ever. On top of this are more ways than ever to disrupt stall, including Mischievous Heart's priority Taunts, nerfed RestTalk, and a large boost for Trick all make stall's job harder than ever. Of course, stall has gained some new tools, such as DW Gliscor, Nattorei, or Evo Stone, but it is apparent that stall is used much less this generation.

A "Stall Saver" could take many forms; for example, utilizing Ghost-typing and a Ground resist or immunity to prevent Dory from spinning while hitting Reuniclus and Magic Mirror users for SE damage. Also important to consider for this Concept would be making sure that Rapid Spin or Magic Mirror don't just become unviable strategies. Making the CaP hard-countered by SR weak pokemon like Ulgamoth could make an interesting battle between getting hazards down and removing them.

Also, note that this pokemon doesn't necessarily have to be played with stall... Rankurusu, the difficulty of Spin-Blocking, etc are all very relevant threats to offensive teams as well!

 

[Dummy007]

Concept: Perfect RainStaller

Description: A Pokemon that, while having a small niche use outside of rain, can be a key player on RainStall teams, both with and without Drizzle.

Justification: With Drizzle and Swift Swim banned as a combination, RainStall has become a viable choice for Rain teams that want Politoed's Drizzle for more than removing harmful weather effects. However, with Drizzle on the verge of being banned, an important question arises: Will RainStall be usable without Politoed? That is what this concept seeks to answer.

Questions to be Answered:
-Is RainStall viable as a team archetype, particularly without the use of infinite rain?
-Can a single Pokemon push an entire playstyle to the point of usability, or even banning?
-How will the metagame shift to counteract RainStall? Will weather become more prominent, or will weather countering take hold?
-What exactly makes a field effect "broken": the Pokemon, the abilities, the effect itself, or some combination of the three?

Explanation: Obviously, this Pokemon would have to take function without Drizzle. That isn't an easy task when you consider that RainStall only appeared after Swift Swim was disallowed with Drizzle. Most Pokemon that can take advantage of rain are either Electric- or Water-typed, but that doesn't necessarily mean that this one has to be. As with all RainStallers, at-least-decent defenses and speed are crucial to making this strategy work. Hydration would be the primary choice for an ability, but Pressure could also be viable.

 

[Lucario1337]

Concept: Premium Sun Sweeper

General Description: This pokemon would aim to abuse sun to the fullest.

Justification: Many sun sweepers do not utilize all of sun's advantages, they only use one boost (i.e. chlorophyll to boost speed but not fire boost, vice-versa)

Questions to be answered:
- Can sun become a dominant weather with a powerful new sweeper?
- What makes a weather abuser truly powerful?
- Is it possible for sun to usurp sand as the dominant weather? (discounting rain)

Explanation:With sand receiving excadrill sun lost it and rain's main trump card, speed boosting during the weather. Sun has lost much of it's appeal in competitive battling with the advent of sandstorm. The pokemon itself could have many different setups. A bulky booster who uses a move such as bulk up/calm mind whilst abusing a weather induced healing ability. A fast hard hitting sweeper who abuses the boost to fire attacks along with a speed boosting ability. It should not be game breaking so, it could be completely countered by other weathers. Or it could be weak to a popular priority move something to balance its power.

 

[Stormbuster]

Concept: Fair Weather Friend

Description: A Pokemon who functions poorly outside of weather, but is an excellent contender in Sun, Rain, Sand, or Hail

Justification: This generation added many things to make weather more viable, including instant starters for rain and sun. However, there is no one Pokemon who can take advantage of every weather.

Questions To Be Answered:
-How will a Pokemon who can use every weather change the lineup of weather teams?
-Which weather team will end up gaining the most support from this Pokemon?
-Will a Pokemon that can play to any weather prove more suited to counter weather teams than support them?

Explanation: Several powerful weather users have been thrown into the mix this generation. New weather starters, Politoed and Ninetails, make old threats like Kingdra and Kabutops thrive. New weather abusers, such as Excadrill have support with Sandstreamers from previous gens to shine in the metagame. But when a weather team comes against a weather team, unless there is a large difference in skill, it often comes right down to whose instant weather user bites the dust first. If there was a Pokemon that could benefit from any weather, then it could change the way weather is played.

 

[Full_Korbe]

Concept: Playing with your toys

General Description: A Pokemon able to use the opponent's strenghts (ability, item) in order to either become more powerful or disable the opponent's strategy

Justification: Many Pokemon like special things. Magic Mirror, Sword Dance, Butterfly Dance, Evo Stone, Leftovers to name a few, and if you are able to disable them, you can gain the momentum and confuse the opponent. Break the backbone of your opponent, that's the goal.

Questions to be answered:

• Is it a viable strategy ?
• How can we use this strategy without falling into the gimmick section ?
• What Pokemon work better with him ?
• What sort of Pokemon can achieve this goal ?
• How design this Pokemon in order to disable both of sweep and stall ?
• What are the weaknesses of this Pokemon ?
• Can we find a way to reverse the game against CAP ?

Explaination:
When I see that the Lead-concept has already been taken (no offence DarkSlay, your concept is nice), I wanted to find a way to decentralize the metagame indirectly.
To reach the concept, we have many options. The more obvious one are moves like Snatch, Boost, Trick or Knock Off, but more obscure one, like Boost-Move + Imprison or Punishment can be nice. Anyway,
I guess than CAP will be quite bulky with a good defensive typing, but without being classed with other walls. And he has to have a decent offensive power if he wants to not being a set-up fodder : 'Hey, I can copy your boosts without hurting you !".

 

[DougJustDoug]

I really like the prospect of the "Momentum" concept presented by Korski. BMB's concept is related to momentum as well, and may be too similar, but I'm not sure. Regardless, I'd like to point out a cool thing about Momentum.

In my opinion, some of the best CAP projects of the past have been projects where we do an in-depth investigation of some aspect of battling that has not been "formally explored" previously through the regular course of discussion in the pokemon forums, or possibly through regular analysis writing in C&C. For example, the general concept of "Setting up" is quite thoroughly explored already. Ditto for "Stalling" or "Wall breaking", etc. You get the idea. But when we did past CAP projects like "The Ultimate Scout" (Kitsunoh), we really dug in deep into the strategy of scouting. It's not that we knew NOTHING about scouting up to that point, but there really was no common body of knowledge about scouting. There was a lot of anecdotal information about scouting, and you saw the word "scouting" used frequently in discussions. But when we made that CAP, we really opened up a deep investigation into what scouting entailed and what pokemon mechanics really supported it, beyond the obligatory "Duh, uh... U-turn?" We can debate long and loud about whether Kitsunoh fulfilled its role or not. But, the act of creating Kitsunoh was fantastic because of the in-depth and targeted discussions it inspired. I can say the same about the "Utility" and "Perfect mate" concepts, although I am admittedly biased on the latter, since it was my concept submission.

My point is -- I like concepts that inspire great discussions about relevant battle strategies and tactics. I think the concept of "battle momentum" is a wonderful subject that is just begging for hearty dissection and debate. People refer to "momentum" all the time in battling discussions, but I'm not sure we collectively have a good understanding of what that really means and how to achieve it/change it in battle. This CAP could go a long way to uncovering more information about momentum. I have plenty of reservations as to whether we can actually build a pokemon capable of turning momentum on demand, since that could easily become "I'm losing badly, BAM! Now I'm winning due to MagicMomentumMon". Such a pokemon is basically the definition of an uber, if you think about it. But, with proper TL guidance, and a community that looks for more subtle ways of impacting momentum other than simply making an omnipotent tide-turner -- then perhaps this could be a really cool pokemon. Or maybe not, but I think the discussions would be a fun learning experience.

 

[Dark_Blissey]

Concept:Single Moveset

General Description: This Pokemon would have only one viable moveset but still be used in standard.

Justification:We all know that prediction is one of the most important things in pokemon, but what if there was a pokemon who could beat prediction.

Questions:Is it possible?
How would the metagame evolve around it?
How would it change prediction in the metagame?
Could it remain viable in a constantly changing metagame?

Explanation:This pokemon would have a shallow, but useful movepool. Other than that it could be just about anything.

sorry about the two above posts. That was a result of my inexperiance in posting.

 

[Nails]

I have no ideas currently for a CAP, however, some of the ideas submitted would be a lot of fun to make. I may edit something into this post though.

I agree with Doug, a momentum mon sounds like an awesome idea, and though i have no clue how to do it, it would a great way to learn about the game.

I think HD's and Zarator's would all be fun mons to play with and so I could support them, but they wouldn't exactly help us learn as much.

Deck Knight's would be a great look into "metagame impact" after it's made, while making it would be pretty straightforward compared to other options, it would be great for learning about the effect of a single pokemon on the metagame that has the sole purpose of defeating a few select threats. So, I support DK's proposal.

I guess it would be "Momentum", "Pursuiter", "Goodstuffs", "Support mon", in order of preference at this point.

I personally won't support anything weather related unless it's really exceptional, "weather counter" or "weather abuser" are very simple to make and don't teach us much. I don't think it would be a good, or even average concept.