yes i wanted to maximize defenses on both ends
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Black & White Battle Subway Records
- Thread starter Peterko
- Start date
yes i wanted to maximize defenses on both ends
yeah yeah i know what ur saying i already lost, gonna give it a try with haxorus or kingdra now haha
If someone with A LOT of patience wants to try it out, Moody Bibarel also works as a Durant sweeper. Something like
Bibarel-Leftovers
Moody
Adamant(252spe, 252atk)
-Protect
-Sub
-Waterfall
-Return
Spam protect and let Moody boost bibarel to +6 everything and a sub up. There's like 0.0000000001% you can lose once you get set up, and it's probably better than dragonite.
Only thing is.... Does anyone want to play 30 turn battles every single game?
Bibarel-Leftovers
Moody
Adamant(252spe, 252atk)
-Protect
-Sub
-Waterfall
-Return
Spam protect and let Moody boost bibarel to +6 everything and a sub up. There's like 0.0000000001% you can lose once you get set up, and it's probably better than dragonite.
Only thing is.... Does anyone want to play 30 turn battles every single game?
I tried using moody on octillery...never again. 10 minutes per battle lmao
Tried it out, it's not as good as you may think. Especially since you have to keep track of your stat ups. Having to go on the offense with +6 attack, but -2 accuracy is not a good way to go. Also, it can't beat Ferrothorn 2.
Can we put PWT records here now too?
So I got my Black 2, and started on new streaks. The subway acts a little different (for example, I Scald a Steelix with Suicune, figure he is going to Rest next turn, so i Calm Mind, and he switches out :o, he can still damage me). But also, I don't like using what everyone else does, probably why I'm not on the list, lol, and I don't use trainer lists...but anyways....here is a little analysis for ya'll...
Thundurus-T...is he the new Garchomp for Suicune?
A lot of people use the Chomp/Cune combo because they cover each others weaknesses and strengths. Well I personally think Thundurus-T covers it even better...
Stats (Garchomp/Thundurus)
HP: 108/79
Att: 130/105
Def: 95/70
SpA: 80/145
SpD: 85/80
Spe: 102/101
Total: 600/580
Garchomp has total points, and better defense, but Thundurus-T gives a better damaging stat by going up 15 points, and even can go mixed if needed by the 105 secondary damage stat compared to 80. Only being 1 point behind can still allow him to outspeed everything with a Choice Scarf, or allowing him to switch attacks if he holds anything but a Choice item (like Focus Sash, like I have).
What about strengths and weaknesses?
Garchomp has 3 resistances, which 2 of aren't that common in the Battle Subway (Fire and Poison) where T-T has 5, which more than 1 are pretty common (Fighting and Steel).
Both are immune to electric attacks that demolish Suicune, but T-T actually HEALS from them! How awesome is that?! How often does Sand Viel actually come into play (save using T-Tar as your first 'mon)?
Chomp takes x4 damage from the common ice types in the subway, where T-T only takes x2 (still not good with his lowered defensive stats), but also is not weak to Dragon type (also common in the BS, especially with entire Dragon teams). His Rock weakness, might be a turn off with so many 'mon having Stone Edge and/or Rock Slide, but being immune to Earthquake, I think easily makes up for it. And a lot more guys in the BS have EQ (and ONLY EQ) compared to Rock type attacks.
Also, a big thing...I know a lot of people might have dealt with is the Water Absorb Vapo...you can just switch T-T in and BOOM, rock his world off.
I typically use the standard Calm Mind/Scald/Rest/Sub 'Cune, but here is what I am using for my T-T
Thundurus-Therian @ Focus Sash
Volt Absorb
Timid
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power (Ice)
This is a typical competative Thundurus-T, but just using it in the Subway. I have debated on trying one with Choice Scarf, but haven't commited to it yet, as I'm still working the third member out right now (I'm trying Choice Band Skill Link Cinncino)
Boom! There is a quick analysis so far from what I've seen from BW2 (without using the Truant Durant, lol)
Thundurus-T...is he the new Garchomp for Suicune?
A lot of people use the Chomp/Cune combo because they cover each others weaknesses and strengths. Well I personally think Thundurus-T covers it even better...
Stats (Garchomp/Thundurus)
HP: 108/79
Att: 130/105
Def: 95/70
SpA: 80/145
SpD: 85/80
Spe: 102/101
Total: 600/580
Garchomp has total points, and better defense, but Thundurus-T gives a better damaging stat by going up 15 points, and even can go mixed if needed by the 105 secondary damage stat compared to 80. Only being 1 point behind can still allow him to outspeed everything with a Choice Scarf, or allowing him to switch attacks if he holds anything but a Choice item (like Focus Sash, like I have).
What about strengths and weaknesses?
Garchomp has 3 resistances, which 2 of aren't that common in the Battle Subway (Fire and Poison) where T-T has 5, which more than 1 are pretty common (Fighting and Steel).
Both are immune to electric attacks that demolish Suicune, but T-T actually HEALS from them! How awesome is that?! How often does Sand Viel actually come into play (save using T-Tar as your first 'mon)?
Chomp takes x4 damage from the common ice types in the subway, where T-T only takes x2 (still not good with his lowered defensive stats), but also is not weak to Dragon type (also common in the BS, especially with entire Dragon teams). His Rock weakness, might be a turn off with so many 'mon having Stone Edge and/or Rock Slide, but being immune to Earthquake, I think easily makes up for it. And a lot more guys in the BS have EQ (and ONLY EQ) compared to Rock type attacks.
Also, a big thing...I know a lot of people might have dealt with is the Water Absorb Vapo...you can just switch T-T in and BOOM, rock his world off.
I typically use the standard Calm Mind/Scald/Rest/Sub 'Cune, but here is what I am using for my T-T
Thundurus-Therian @ Focus Sash
Volt Absorb
Timid
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Spe
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power (Ice)
This is a typical competative Thundurus-T, but just using it in the Subway. I have debated on trying one with Choice Scarf, but haven't commited to it yet, as I'm still working the third member out right now (I'm trying Choice Band Skill Link Cinncino)
Boom! There is a quick analysis so far from what I've seen from BW2 (without using the Truant Durant, lol)
I did a little streak in Super Doubles on my Black 2 earlier... got to 100 wins but a Freeze cost me the 101st game.
I completely agree that Volt Absorb is very nice on Thundurus-T, but note that the comparison to Sand Veil is outdated. For the subway, Chomp should absolutely be using Rough Skin, which does prove relevant in a bunch of matchups.
The most frustrating thing here compared to Chomp is the weakness/inaccuracy of the coverage moves. Focus Blast's inaccuracy can cause huge problems on long streaks, and non-STAB HP Ice does low damage against neutral things like Water/Ground pokes where you can't use Thunderbolt and don't want to risk a Focus Blast miss. STAB Earthquake and Outrage both hit really hard unboosted, avoid accuracy problems, and cover almost everything (levitate Bronzong comes to mind as an exception) without need of a third move. This isn't to say that a Thundurus-T/Suicune pairing isn't strong, but rather, that Chomp sets a higher standard than you might think.
There is the great coverage of Chomp's move pool, however, a majority of chomps used are Scarfed, so they get locked in. With the setup I have, I can get the +2 and take out most things. The innacuracy of Focus Blast has come and bitten me in the ass more than I would like to admit, but I don't believe the setup I have with him is not optimal, and there are many other options, I just haven't gotten around to explore them.
I would take the time to learn RNG abuse to lessen the time finding and improving the IVs of your Virizion.
Hey guys, long time no see. I'm playing through Black 2, after which I will be doing some work to move all my Pokémon from White and to get lots of new ones and I'll be back in the Subway. What I'm wondering now is if there's a more extensive or updated version of http://www.psypokes.com/bw/subway_pokemon.php specifically with abilities included, because I'm trying to figure out the presence of Magic Guard Pokémon in the Subway for my next team idea
I can't seem to learn how to RNG abuse, I put in my MAC address, TID, and SID. Searched for Physical Flawless with a Synchronize Jolly lead.
I don't know what I'm looking at and what to do next.
http://i47.tinypic.com/34djsi8.png
I don't know what I'm looking at and what to do next.
http://i47.tinypic.com/34djsi8.png
B/W2 Super Singles - streak of 360 wins
B/W2 super singles subway, battle video 80-72623-73771, streak of 203. I didn't lose but I don't really want to go on any further now that I got the Starf Berry.
I ended up making a critical: TruAnt has 252 Atk EVs instead of HP EVs. No wonder it died so easily... Cloyster takes better advantage of Truant enemy than Latias does, while Latias is much more self-sufficient than Cloyster. Notable match was a CM war between Latias and Cobalion, which ended with me forcing it to Struggle itself to death.
Major threats: Protect or Fake Out leads. Fake Out + Sub Kangaskhan lead swept my team with two untimely crits. Protect Abomasnow lead also swept my team.
I didn't really think about the EV spread on Cloyster btw. Just grabbed it off of Pokécheck since it's TheMantyke's Cloyster. The Durant is from someone I know. I mean I could have RNG'd my own but I didn't feel like changing my DS time.
Edit: Cloyster can't muscle past Aggron, the Impish Bronzong, Cobalion, and some other mons without Truant assistance. That's troublesome if one of those two are the second Pokémon.
Edit 2: Screw it I'm going to keep going past 203. Once I change the EV spread on Durant that is. Don't have a camera on hand anyways. Also take notice that battle videos of subway battles stores the battle number...
Edit 3: Lost on the 361st battle due to BS hax (picture of record). I didn't make any misplays, but I lost exactly the way I thought I would end up losing. Mienshao killed itself with HJK before Cloyster could get the 3rd Shell Smash in, and it also killed Durant. I could have switched in Latias after turn 1 but generally sacrificing her is a bad idea because of how she can setup on almost anything... except the Thick Fat Hariyama that came in and took out Cloyster (it took 50% after Sitrus Berry). Latias could have landed the 2HKO except freeze hax happened and I lost. Ice Punch did about 45% so using Sub wouldn't have really done anything except weaken her.
Battle vid 37-40961-77213. I won't be doing many more subway so these two videos will remain here for a long time.
Durant - Jolly Truant @Choice Scarf Entrainment/Protect/Iron Head/Superpower 252HP/6Def/252Spe
Cloyster - Adamant Skill Link @Wide Lens Icicle Spear/Rock Blast/Protect/Shell Smash 22HP/252Atk/232Spe
Latias - Timid @Leftovers Dragon Pulse/Substitute/Calm Mind/Protect 252HP/6Def/252Spe
All team members have flawless IVs where it matters. Durant is from a friend of mine, Cloyster is from TheMantyke, and Latias is mine (comes from Ruby via legit Eon Ticket and RNG abused on a retail Ruby cart using a live battery).
Durant has Superpower because most of the things that wall Cloyster at +6 are steel types like Cobalion and Aggron, although there are others like Sitrus Poliwrath, and the Thick Fat Hariyama that I lost to. Cloyster has Wide Lens to mitigate misses from Rock Blast (only missed once and that was due to BrightPowder). I probably should have invested more in HP for Cloyster as it is my primary setup Pokémon.
Enpi's Hariyama used Brick Break on Cloyster.
It's super effective against Cloyster.
Cloyster lost 134 HP (104%).
Yeah... Definitely. I didn't really think about the EVs on the set. Just grabbed it off of Pokécheck from TheMantyke's account (NOT an OT search, account search so I knew it was his). Also Durant could have a few points less in speed as it's a couple points faster than the fastest Pokémon in the entire subway (that Timid Scarf max speed Manectric).
Latias performed exactly as expected, although some of the things she was able to setup on due to substitute was surprising (shoddy AI ftw). Stuff like that Trick Toxic Orb Metagross that kept using Trick when she was behind a sub.
All in all that run went longer than I thought it would. I only planned to get a Starf Berry so I'm done now. Not going to do another run anytime soon.
Edit 4: Yes I changed the EV spread on Durant mid-streak. Battles 0 to 203 had EVs of 6HP/252Atk/252Spe with Iron Head/Entrainment/X-Scissor/Thunder Fang. None of the moves that I removed were instrumental in continuing the streak (Thunder Fang defeating an Empoleon as the last enemy Pokémon could have been accomplished with Superpower and 0Atk EVs).
B/W2 super singles subway, battle video 80-72623-73771, streak of 203. I didn't lose but I don't really want to go on any further now that I got the Starf Berry.
I ended up making a critical: TruAnt has 252 Atk EVs instead of HP EVs. No wonder it died so easily... Cloyster takes better advantage of Truant enemy than Latias does, while Latias is much more self-sufficient than Cloyster. Notable match was a CM war between Latias and Cobalion, which ended with me forcing it to Struggle itself to death.
Major threats: Protect or Fake Out leads. Fake Out + Sub Kangaskhan lead swept my team with two untimely crits. Protect Abomasnow lead also swept my team.
I didn't really think about the EV spread on Cloyster btw. Just grabbed it off of Pokécheck since it's TheMantyke's Cloyster. The Durant is from someone I know. I mean I could have RNG'd my own but I didn't feel like changing my DS time.
Edit: Cloyster can't muscle past Aggron, the Impish Bronzong, Cobalion, and some other mons without Truant assistance. That's troublesome if one of those two are the second Pokémon.
Edit 2: Screw it I'm going to keep going past 203. Once I change the EV spread on Durant that is. Don't have a camera on hand anyways. Also take notice that battle videos of subway battles stores the battle number...
Edit 3: Lost on the 361st battle due to BS hax (picture of record). I didn't make any misplays, but I lost exactly the way I thought I would end up losing. Mienshao killed itself with HJK before Cloyster could get the 3rd Shell Smash in, and it also killed Durant. I could have switched in Latias after turn 1 but generally sacrificing her is a bad idea because of how she can setup on almost anything... except the Thick Fat Hariyama that came in and took out Cloyster (it took 50% after Sitrus Berry). Latias could have landed the 2HKO except freeze hax happened and I lost. Ice Punch did about 45% so using Sub wouldn't have really done anything except weaken her.
Battle vid 37-40961-77213. I won't be doing many more subway so these two videos will remain here for a long time.
Durant - Jolly Truant @Choice Scarf Entrainment/Protect/Iron Head/Superpower 252HP/6Def/252Spe
Cloyster - Adamant Skill Link @Wide Lens Icicle Spear/Rock Blast/Protect/Shell Smash 22HP/252Atk/232Spe
Latias - Timid @Leftovers Dragon Pulse/Substitute/Calm Mind/Protect 252HP/6Def/252Spe
All team members have flawless IVs where it matters. Durant is from a friend of mine, Cloyster is from TheMantyke, and Latias is mine (comes from Ruby via legit Eon Ticket and RNG abused on a retail Ruby cart using a live battery).
Durant has Superpower because most of the things that wall Cloyster at +6 are steel types like Cobalion and Aggron, although there are others like Sitrus Poliwrath, and the Thick Fat Hariyama that I lost to. Cloyster has Wide Lens to mitigate misses from Rock Blast (only missed once and that was due to BrightPowder). I probably should have invested more in HP for Cloyster as it is my primary setup Pokémon.
Enpi's Hariyama used Brick Break on Cloyster.
It's super effective against Cloyster.
Cloyster lost 134 HP (104%).
Yeah... Definitely. I didn't really think about the EVs on the set. Just grabbed it off of Pokécheck from TheMantyke's account (NOT an OT search, account search so I knew it was his). Also Durant could have a few points less in speed as it's a couple points faster than the fastest Pokémon in the entire subway (that Timid Scarf max speed Manectric).
Latias performed exactly as expected, although some of the things she was able to setup on due to substitute was surprising (shoddy AI ftw). Stuff like that Trick Toxic Orb Metagross that kept using Trick when she was behind a sub.
All in all that run went longer than I thought it would. I only planned to get a Starf Berry so I'm done now. Not going to do another run anytime soon.
Edit 4: Yes I changed the EV spread on Durant mid-streak. Battles 0 to 203 had EVs of 6HP/252Atk/252Spe with Iron Head/Entrainment/X-Scissor/Thunder Fang. None of the moves that I removed were instrumental in continuing the streak (Thunder Fang defeating an Empoleon as the last enemy Pokémon could have been accomplished with Superpower and 0Atk EVs).
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a315/birdboy2000/image201210270004.jpg
Black 2 (though legal in black 1), Super single battle subway record: 73 wins.
Team:
Salamence, Choice Scarf (255 atk/speed, naive). Intimidate.
Flamethrower, Outrage, Fly, Earthquake
Articuno @ Charti Berry (255 def/speed, timid, 31 speed IV). Pressure.
Ice Beam, Sheer Cold, Mind Reader, Roost
Garchomp @ Focus Sash (255 atk/speed, jolly, 31 speed IV). Sand Veil.
Swords Dance, Outrage, Earthquake, Fire Fang
Comments:
This team wouldn't work against a human opponent, but against the AI which almost never switches and often declines to set up, Fly is a very useful move, giving Salamence a decent flying STAB. Salamence is still probably the team's weak link - I see it get knocked out without first getting a kill more often than its teammates, and this particular one was initially designed to be a revenge killer, with Garchomp as lead. (Switching the two was what got this team to where it is now.) But I'm not having as much success with choice band - that speed boost means practically nothing's faster, and with intimidate and decent bulk it can usually take a hit unless it's up against ice.
Articuno is my second favorite pokemon after Pidgeot, but unless Pidgeot gets a fantastic move or item next gen it's never going to be viable. Articuno, on the other hand, tears through anything with good defenses and no Sturdy through the use of mind reader and sheer cold. Fast pokemon that can hit super-effectively give it trouble, as does status sometimes, but very few AI pokemon can OHKO it without a stone edge crit, or 2HKO without a type advantage. Add roost to the mix and it wins me a ton of matches, despite its lack of raw power and many weaknesses. (It also benefits from stealth rock being significantly less useful in 3v3.)
Garchomp is Garchomp. I think it's common enough on the teams the rest of you use that it needs no explanation. :)
The focus sash is for faster ice or dragon pokemon, or ice shard, and despite the bulk of this species its item still comes in handy. It also guarantees I can get off swords dance even if someone comes in with an ice punch/beam/fang. Sash is extraordinarily useful anyway, and it's on Garchomp instead of Articuno because Articuno very rarely would need it.
I can't say what its weakness is, per se. My last match I was defeated by a Gengar, who finished off a wounded Garchomp and outsped and 2HKO'd Articuno. There isn't an AI pokemon I try to avoid at all costs or anything like that. In the wi-fi subway, it has trouble with weather - Excadrill and Kingdra are both nasty with speed boosts, although Garchomp can revenge kill them if they aren't sashed - but in the super singles subway that strategy isn't used, so when I lose it's more about multiple counters in a row than any single one.
Black 2 (though legal in black 1), Super single battle subway record: 73 wins.
Team:
Salamence, Choice Scarf (255 atk/speed, naive). Intimidate.
Flamethrower, Outrage, Fly, Earthquake
Articuno @ Charti Berry (255 def/speed, timid, 31 speed IV). Pressure.
Ice Beam, Sheer Cold, Mind Reader, Roost
Garchomp @ Focus Sash (255 atk/speed, jolly, 31 speed IV). Sand Veil.
Swords Dance, Outrage, Earthquake, Fire Fang
Comments:
This team wouldn't work against a human opponent, but against the AI which almost never switches and often declines to set up, Fly is a very useful move, giving Salamence a decent flying STAB. Salamence is still probably the team's weak link - I see it get knocked out without first getting a kill more often than its teammates, and this particular one was initially designed to be a revenge killer, with Garchomp as lead. (Switching the two was what got this team to where it is now.) But I'm not having as much success with choice band - that speed boost means practically nothing's faster, and with intimidate and decent bulk it can usually take a hit unless it's up against ice.
Articuno is my second favorite pokemon after Pidgeot, but unless Pidgeot gets a fantastic move or item next gen it's never going to be viable. Articuno, on the other hand, tears through anything with good defenses and no Sturdy through the use of mind reader and sheer cold. Fast pokemon that can hit super-effectively give it trouble, as does status sometimes, but very few AI pokemon can OHKO it without a stone edge crit, or 2HKO without a type advantage. Add roost to the mix and it wins me a ton of matches, despite its lack of raw power and many weaknesses. (It also benefits from stealth rock being significantly less useful in 3v3.)
Garchomp is Garchomp. I think it's common enough on the teams the rest of you use that it needs no explanation. :)
The focus sash is for faster ice or dragon pokemon, or ice shard, and despite the bulk of this species its item still comes in handy. It also guarantees I can get off swords dance even if someone comes in with an ice punch/beam/fang. Sash is extraordinarily useful anyway, and it's on Garchomp instead of Articuno because Articuno very rarely would need it.
I can't say what its weakness is, per se. My last match I was defeated by a Gengar, who finished off a wounded Garchomp and outsped and 2HKO'd Articuno. There isn't an AI pokemon I try to avoid at all costs or anything like that. In the wi-fi subway, it has trouble with weather - Excadrill and Kingdra are both nasty with speed boosts, although Garchomp can revenge kill them if they aren't sashed - but in the super singles subway that strategy isn't used, so when I lose it's more about multiple counters in a row than any single one.
You need to calibrate your settings first in addition to having the MAC address, TID and SID. Basically, you don't have a range for timer0 or have you VCount and VFrame set. Read this post, specifically the part on calibration that has hide tags: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3411155&postcount=4
In general, I would look over the whole PPRNG thread (http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102901) if I were you before actually trying to RNG abuse anything. I know for me, it took a few reads and trial and error before everything really clicked.
Okay, I finally dove into the 5th gen and I haven't played the Subway just yet. Is low level Endeavor no longer a usable strategy in doubles or do other strategies just overshadow it?
Also, holy crap @ Truant Durant.
Also, holy crap @ Truant Durant.
Oh, really? That sucks. Thanks for the reply.
EDIT: Looks like a few people have been using things like Pichu and Carvanha as weak defensive decoys. What's the stat threshold for succeeding as one of those? Just low defenses?
EDIT: Looks like a few people have been using things like Pichu and Carvanha as weak defensive decoys. What's the stat threshold for succeeding as one of those? Just low defenses?
Just reached the 105 mark and got my berry with none other than Antertainment. I'm assuming that there's plenty of posts drooling over Durant, so I won't go into detail on how the team works. Although I will admit I went to 49 with Garchomp/Ferrothorn/Suicune prior to this, I sat down today during long car rides there and back again and blazed through 56 matches relatively quickly. I had a few scares with Volt Switch Magnezone and Explosion Exeggutor/Probopass, but overall it's been smooth sailing. Of course, I'll try for higher streaks if only for the BP.
Here's the battle video for my 105th match (not interesting at all except for Golem using Earthquake on Dragonite...): 19-79576-75779
And here's the team I'm using at the moment for you guys to download and try out for yourselves. Though, I'll have to get around to tweaking EV spreads like more HP on Durant and more Attack on Dragonite, but it hasn't mattered so far, bar not grabbing an OHKO on Tangrowth.
Here's the battle video for my 105th match (not interesting at all except for Golem using Earthquake on Dragonite...): 19-79576-75779
And here's the team I'm using at the moment for you guys to download and try out for yourselves. Though, I'll have to get around to tweaking EV spreads like more HP on Durant and more Attack on Dragonite, but it hasn't mattered so far, bar not grabbing an OHKO on Tangrowth.
It will be very slow alternating protect with accupressure, and with protect maxing at 16 pp, you risk the awkwardness of accupressure leaving attack underboosted sometimes. It will work, but it will be much slower and somewhat less consistent than whimsicott/durant/dragonite. I'd say it's probably about as consistamt as my Durant/cloyster/garchomp team, and that got over 500, but accupressure/protect alternation will test your patience.