kangaskhan's biggest advantage over other normal-types is sucker punch + fake out, which allows it to revenge kill a lot of faster threats in the tier. scrappy is awesome as well, allowing kangaskhan to muscle through every ghost-type in the tier. it's decent speed tier and bulk make it a wonderful sweepers for balance or offensive teams.
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NU Pokemon of the Week - Golurk
- Thread starter DTC
- Start date
- Status
im a huge fan of Kangaskhan in this metagame. She has just the right combination of bulk, speed, and power to dominate teams.
Personally, I've been running a bulky CB set lately. In this meta I find that I have to switch to Kanga a lot as she is just such a great switch-in to anything not named Sawk(well not quite but you get the point). I use Double Edge / Sucker Punch / Drain Punch / Return. This set has been just ridiculous so far, its my MVP nearly every game.
Right now i'm not running any Speed EVs, but I know thats probably not the best idea. What should a bulky Kanga be trying to outspeed? I don't even know! Even with 0 EVs i outrun nearly every defensive threat, so I haven't felt the need for speed at all yet.
Personally, I've been running a bulky CB set lately. In this meta I find that I have to switch to Kanga a lot as she is just such a great switch-in to anything not named Sawk(well not quite but you get the point). I use Double Edge / Sucker Punch / Drain Punch / Return. This set has been just ridiculous so far, its my MVP nearly every game.
Right now i'm not running any Speed EVs, but I know thats probably not the best idea. What should a bulky Kanga be trying to outspeed? I don't even know! Even with 0 EVs i outrun nearly every defensive threat, so I haven't felt the need for speed at all yet.
I could rather replace Return with Body Slam, Double Edge had already the enough power to destroy things, and Return is somewhat redundant (somewhat less power without recoil), while Body Slam still hurt things, and the paralize effect can help a lot to your team (as for the hax or the speed reduction).
Also, a good benchmark with the speed is 227, in that way you can speed any Leafeon and Murkrow without investment on speed (and max investment Beartic, Huntail, Gorebyss, and standar Semistoad), it can comes handy. Another decent benchmark is 234, for outspeed max inversion Ursaring, Relicanth, Amparos, and Torterrra (and max inversion with neutral nature Seviper, and standar Solrock). I don't think it's a good idea to invest more on speed than 234, you're losing too much bulky with it, and you're not outspeeding nothing important, maybe 243 for outspeed standar Skuntank, and max investment with neutral nature Ludicolo, Dragonair, Victreebel, Luxray, and Samurott. With more than 243 you're not winning absolute nothing apart from outspeeding the rare Electabuzz, so, it's the highest speed I could see ok on Kangaskhan.
Emboar's ascend to RU helped Kangaskhan, too, because it was a decent idea to archive 252 of speed to outspeed max investment Emboar, losing an important part of it's bulky just because him. Anyway, spend at least 4 EV's on speed to outspeed Golbat, Kangaskhan works really well without speed investment at all, anyway, because you're not outspeeding anything really important at all (Khan can take hits of all of them and heal itself with Drain Punch or just leave them without options with Double-Edge).
Also, a good benchmark with the speed is 227, in that way you can speed any Leafeon and Murkrow without investment on speed (and max investment Beartic, Huntail, Gorebyss, and standar Semistoad), it can comes handy. Another decent benchmark is 234, for outspeed max inversion Ursaring, Relicanth, Amparos, and Torterrra (and max inversion with neutral nature Seviper, and standar Solrock). I don't think it's a good idea to invest more on speed than 234, you're losing too much bulky with it, and you're not outspeeding nothing important, maybe 243 for outspeed standar Skuntank, and max investment with neutral nature Ludicolo, Dragonair, Victreebel, Luxray, and Samurott. With more than 243 you're not winning absolute nothing apart from outspeeding the rare Electabuzz, so, it's the highest speed I could see ok on Kangaskhan.
Emboar's ascend to RU helped Kangaskhan, too, because it was a decent idea to archive 252 of speed to outspeed max investment Emboar, losing an important part of it's bulky just because him. Anyway, spend at least 4 EV's on speed to outspeed Golbat, Kangaskhan works really well without speed investment at all, anyway, because you're not outspeeding anything really important at all (Khan can take hits of all of them and heal itself with Drain Punch or just leave them without options with Double-Edge).
I love Kangaskhan right now. The set I am using the most is Fake Out / Body Slam / Drain Punch / Sucker Punch @ Leftovers with 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Speed and an Adamant nature. Kangaskhan is bulky so it can take quite the beating from non Fighting-types. Fake Out + Sucker Punch is awesome priority, allowing Kangaskhan to act as one of the best crutch Pokemon for dealing with fast sweepers such as Shell Smash Gorebyss. Body Slam is nice to spread paralysis, and Drain Punch does a good job healing Kangaskhan.
Something I have been wanting to try for decades is some kind of Early Bird Rest set. One turn Rest is pretty damn cool. Problem is I am not sure what to use with it, and losing Scrappy is annoying. I don't think it will be too detrimental, considering Ghost-types are not too common besides Golurk and sometimes Haunter, but it would be annoying not being able to hit them with anything besides Sucker Punch. A rough outline of a Kangaskhan set I would use with Early Bird is Rest / Sleep Talk / Body Slam / Circle, but in all honestly I am not really sure. It is something I have to think about.
Something I have been wanting to try for decades is some kind of Early Bird Rest set. One turn Rest is pretty damn cool. Problem is I am not sure what to use with it, and losing Scrappy is annoying. I don't think it will be too detrimental, considering Ghost-types are not too common besides Golurk and sometimes Haunter, but it would be annoying not being able to hit them with anything besides Sucker Punch. A rough outline of a Kangaskhan set I would use with Early Bird is Rest / Sleep Talk / Body Slam / Circle, but in all honestly I am not really sure. It is something I have to think about.
The problem I find with the Resttalk set is the practicality of Rest and that Scrappy is usually too good to pass up. So you can heal off damage and status? Drain Punch+Leftovers does a fine job at healing Kangaskhan (especially when Ghosts can't prevent that healing), whereas Substitute can block status commonly thrown at Kanga (Kanga runs a mean SubPunch set btw, with access to both Sucker Punch and Focus Punch, Sub all but ensures they do not fail). The fact that both Body Slam and Circle Throw are good for general use is cool and do help this set's viability, but I'm probably just as unsure as you are regarding Resttalk Kangaskhan in this metagame where Sawk, Golurk, Braviary, Gurdurr and Gardevoir can pummel you hard.
Then again, I'm the guy with a Resttalking Dragonair, but that's because he has little choice outside of that and Marvel Scale+Eviolite does do wonders.
Then again, I'm the guy with a Resttalking Dragonair, but that's because he has little choice outside of that and Marvel Scale+Eviolite does do wonders.
I've always wanted to try a parashuffling Kanga set with Body Slam + Circle Throw like DTC mentioned. With Scrappy it had the ability to paralyze and shuffle any Pokemon in the game unlike things like Dragonair, which had no other way to paralyze outside of Thunder Wave. I just checked it out on PO and sadly Body Slam is a 3rd Gen Tutor move for Kangaskhan and it cannot have it alongside Circle Throw, which is a 5th gen Breeding move.
I forgot about SubPunch for Kangaskhan, which can be very devastating once behind the Substitute. The set's main problem would be really physically bulky Pokemon like Vileplume, Tangela, and Alomomola who can take its attacks well and recover along the way. Another problem would be the inability to use its Fighting-type attack reliably when not behind a Substitute and can be a big pain when you really need to use it. For the former maybe Kanga can exchange Sucker Punch for Toxic and be able to Toxic stall Alomomola and Tangela while attempting to keep its Substitute. (Alomomola's Waterfall does 24% max which is cool) Something else that could be fun to try out would be Substitute / Toxic / Return / Drain Punch, which exchanges the raw power of the unreliable Focus Punch for a move with a healing effect. This set with Spikes support could give dedicated stall teams hell as common stall Pokemon such as Tangela, Alomomola, Bastiodon, Roselia, and Frillish are highly threatened by Kanga's bulk, perfect coverage, and ability to Toxic stall walls. Kangaskhan great Speed also means some of the faster Pokemon found in stall such as Misdreavus and Garbodor cannot Will-O-Wisp or Toxic it, respectively, before it sets up a Substitute.
I forgot about SubPunch for Kangaskhan, which can be very devastating once behind the Substitute. The set's main problem would be really physically bulky Pokemon like Vileplume, Tangela, and Alomomola who can take its attacks well and recover along the way. Another problem would be the inability to use its Fighting-type attack reliably when not behind a Substitute and can be a big pain when you really need to use it. For the former maybe Kanga can exchange Sucker Punch for Toxic and be able to Toxic stall Alomomola and Tangela while attempting to keep its Substitute. (Alomomola's Waterfall does 24% max which is cool) Something else that could be fun to try out would be Substitute / Toxic / Return / Drain Punch, which exchanges the raw power of the unreliable Focus Punch for a move with a healing effect. This set with Spikes support could give dedicated stall teams hell as common stall Pokemon such as Tangela, Alomomola, Bastiodon, Roselia, and Frillish are highly threatened by Kanga's bulk, perfect coverage, and ability to Toxic stall walls. Kangaskhan great Speed also means some of the faster Pokemon found in stall such as Misdreavus and Garbodor cannot Will-O-Wisp or Toxic it, respectively, before it sets up a Substitute.
I recently used Kangaskhan in my most latest team, and I can say that he is simply great. I used the priority set and didn't expect much, but it ended up being my most relied 'mon. The Fake Out+Sucker Punch is powerful in itself already, I saw it knock out frailer mons such as Raichu. Double-Edge is also very very powerful even against stall especially with hazard support. Definitely deserves its hype.
Kangaskhan is an absolute beast. It's all about raw power and Scrappy helps it succeed in denting anything in its path much more effectively than any other Normal type in the tier. Most people using Kangaskhan that I commonly see are using a CB set with Return/Drain Punch/Sucker Punch/EQ, but I tend to prefer the LO variation that I use here:
Kangaskhan @ Life Orb
252 HP / 252 ATK / 4 SpD
Return
DrainPunch
Substitute
Sucker Punch
It's set, paired with the spread more focused on HP, helps me put up some very bulky subs, allowing me to fire off STAB Return until someone busts it, then I can repeat the process, Drain Punching whenever my health gets too low from subbing. Sucker Punch is for when I need to hit a threat like Gurdurr at when they are t low health, as well as quickly cleaning off anything left on the opponent's team. I've had a lot if success with this set on multiple teams.
Kangaskhan @ Life Orb
252 HP / 252 ATK / 4 SpD
Return
DrainPunch
Substitute
Sucker Punch
It's set, paired with the spread more focused on HP, helps me put up some very bulky subs, allowing me to fire off STAB Return until someone busts it, then I can repeat the process, Drain Punching whenever my health gets too low from subbing. Sucker Punch is for when I need to hit a threat like Gurdurr at when they are t low health, as well as quickly cleaning off anything left on the opponent's team. I've had a lot if success with this set on multiple teams.
I like Kangaskhan for it's versatility. It's actually the Pokemon I use the most frequently, being in 8/9 NU teams that I have.
Back in the days of DPP, when Kangaskhan was still in UU, I used to run a Early Bird/Rest set paired with a Dodrio to great effect, but that was before the BW2 sleep mechanics. It's possible to still pull this one off now, but it needs a lot more prediction and it doesn't have the niche that it used to have, given that you can't just keep on switching. It works even in the current NU metagame to punch holes in the opponent's team early-game. I changed it from the original Sleep Talk to Substitute, since BW2's sleep mechanics changed.
Kangaskhan @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Early Bird
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Return
Substitute
Rest
Earthquake
Then there's the set I use now, which is pretty similar to everyone's set now.
Kangaskhan @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Scrappy
4HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Fake Out
Return
Drain Punch
Sucker Punch
Max speed + Jolly is to win the Fake Out priority war with other Kangaskhan, as well as dealing major damage to most things without getting hit. Also breaks Sawk's Sturdy and I like the combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch. The threat of Fake Out also manages to force a lot of switches, surprisingly. Leftovers because I prefer for Kangaskhan to be able to switch in a couple of times (and spam Fake Out) over the power that LO or CB gives.
Back in the days of DPP, when Kangaskhan was still in UU, I used to run a Early Bird/Rest set paired with a Dodrio to great effect, but that was before the BW2 sleep mechanics. It's possible to still pull this one off now, but it needs a lot more prediction and it doesn't have the niche that it used to have, given that you can't just keep on switching. It works even in the current NU metagame to punch holes in the opponent's team early-game. I changed it from the original Sleep Talk to Substitute, since BW2's sleep mechanics changed.
Kangaskhan @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Early Bird
4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Return
Substitute
Rest
Earthquake
Then there's the set I use now, which is pretty similar to everyone's set now.
Kangaskhan @ Leftovers
Nature: Jolly
Ability: Scrappy
4HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Fake Out
Return
Drain Punch
Sucker Punch
Max speed + Jolly is to win the Fake Out priority war with other Kangaskhan, as well as dealing major damage to most things without getting hit. Also breaks Sawk's Sturdy and I like the combination of Fake Out and Sucker Punch. The threat of Fake Out also manages to force a lot of switches, surprisingly. Leftovers because I prefer for Kangaskhan to be able to switch in a couple of times (and spam Fake Out) over the power that LO or CB gives.
New week, new Pokemon~
Altaria
Type: Dragon / Flying
Base Stats: 75 HP / 70 Atk / 90 Def / 70 SpA / 105 SpD / 80 Spe
Ability: Natural Cure / Cloud Nine
Despite having very low offensive stats, Altaria is actually a competent offensive Pokemon. Choice Specs Draco Meteor will smash through everything that is not a special wall or Steel-type just because Draco Meteor is that strong. Altaria is also a great special wall as it can take a beating from annoying special attackers like Charizard. Dragon Dance Altaria, however, is notorious for being outclassed by Fraxure... or is it?
Altaria
Type: Dragon / Flying
Base Stats: 75 HP / 70 Atk / 90 Def / 70 SpA / 105 SpD / 80 Spe
Ability: Natural Cure / Cloud Nine
Despite having very low offensive stats, Altaria is actually a competent offensive Pokemon. Choice Specs Draco Meteor will smash through everything that is not a special wall or Steel-type just because Draco Meteor is that strong. Altaria is also a great special wall as it can take a beating from annoying special attackers like Charizard. Dragon Dance Altaria, however, is notorious for being outclassed by Fraxure... or is it?
altaria has always been a very underwhelming pokemon for me. it's offensive stats are extremely low, which leaves it prone to being walled by a lot of pokemon. the choice specs set was popular for a while, but in reality it only destroyed more offensive teams that didn't have anything to take a powerful, unresisted attack. in the current metagame, choice specs has to run timid to keep up with pokemon such as ludicolo and samurott, which greatly reduces the amount of ko's it gets and makes it even more underwhelming. with the recent addition of low kick fraxure, altaria's dragon dance set is even less effective than the choice specs set. it is prone to being walled by pokemon such as regirock and alomomola, unless it carries heal bell. the defensive dragon dance sets take ages to set up and cannot do significant damage even at +6 to walls.
defensively, altaria has a bit more merits and less competition. it has nice stats and a great supporting movepool and reliable recovery. however, defensive altaria is even weaker than alomomola, and has crippling weaknesses to rock and ice. it can be set up on by a lot of pokemon unless it carries roar, and in some cases haze. altaria also takes 25% from stealth rock every time it switches in, which can limit its ability to wall something like haunter.
defensively, altaria has a bit more merits and less competition. it has nice stats and a great supporting movepool and reliable recovery. however, defensive altaria is even weaker than alomomola, and has crippling weaknesses to rock and ice. it can be set up on by a lot of pokemon unless it carries roar, and in some cases haze. altaria also takes 25% from stealth rock every time it switches in, which can limit its ability to wall something like haunter.
altaria may appear to be a weak attacker with its low offensive stats, but that is not the case. it can run dd and specs sets as well as defensive sets with its nice typing. specs draco and dd boosted outrage can be quite powerful, as many mons have trouble taking such attacks. it does possess an annoying sr weakness as well as a nasty 4x ice weakness, unfortunately, so be wary of that if using it as an attacker (but it does even better as a defensive mon, imo)
Altaria @ Life Orb
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
They say Rayquaza is the most powerful Dragon/Flying Pokemon around.
BULLSHIT
Altaria is top dog...bird...dragon...KACAW. With LO, max Attack EVs and an Adamant nature, Outrage deals MAJOR damage, even coming off Altaria's prissy Attack stat. But Altaria can sweep with a Dragon Dance or two under its belt. With Substitute, Altaria can safely Dragon Dance without fear of status or being phased out by Dragon Tail. And unlike Fraxure, Altaria has ROOST, so he can recover LO and Sub damage.
check out this bamf
252+ Atk Life Orb Altaria Outrage vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Sawk: 235-278 (80.75 - 95.53%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - Sawk just got socked
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Altaria Outrage vs. 60 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 292-344 (95.42 - 112.41%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock - Serperior, more like ALTARPERIOR
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Altaria Outrage vs. 80 HP / 0 Def Braviary: 352-417 (97.5 - 115.51%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock - Guess who's king of the skies now? NOT BRAVIARY. KACAW.
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Altaria Outrage vs. 200 HP / 12 Def Golurk: 331-391 (89.7 - 105.96%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - Golurk some more and try again later
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Altaria Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 164-192 (49.1 - 57.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock - Behind a Sub, Tangela can't do JACK
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Altaria Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 308-364 (57.67 - 68.16%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock - what's Alomomola going to do, Scald you for no damage?
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Altaria Outrage vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Garbodor: 308-363 (84.61 - 99.72%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock - Takin' out da trash
+6 252+ Atk Life Orb Huge Power Altaria Helping Hand Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Shedinja on a critical hit: 0-0 (0% - 0%) -- never KO - gdi
Just as a side note, every time that I use Tangela I use it with HP Ice (Giga Drain, Leech Seed, Synthesis and HP Ice):
0 SpA Tangela Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Altaria: 196-232 (55.36 - 65.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So, you put a subs, Tangela comes in, you use Dragon Dance, Tangela breaks your subs, now if there were SR in your field you are in KO range, if not you could attack or use Dragon Dance again, Tangela attacks and in the next turn you can't defeat Tangela with a single +2 Outrage or two +1 Outrages, while you are in KO range.
And about defensive Garbodor, I usually use it with Rock Blast, but even with Gunk Shot you can't use Dragon Dance two times without getting KOed with SR in your field, and in two turns Garbodor recovers SR damage and now you need two Outrages to finish it. But I think in this case you could spam Roost until Gunk Shot misses.
So has anyone been using Altaria in some kind of core? Altaria is a pretty nice Pokemon to put in cores because of its nifty resistances. It also tends to struggle to get past certain Pokemon, which its teammates can take care of. I remember a wallbreaking core of Choice Band Torterra + Choice Specs Altaria being fun, although it is obviously extremely weak to Ice-type attacks, which you should address if you choose to use this core.
I have a trololol set on Altaria : it has a life orb with :
Draco Meteor
Haze
Earthquake
Roost
It launches a (relatively) powerful draco then when the opponent thinks I'm about to switch due to the spec att drop, I use haze to recover my special attack. I can also recover my health with roost. It's particularly good when the opponent tries to set up on it, I can use haze to cancel their boosts and recover my spec att :).
Earthquake is mainly for type coverage, particularly against Bastiodon and Probopass, the main things that laugh at draco meteors. It can also be used after a draco due to it being physical.
It's not the best set but still very fun to use :p. I tried the common specs set but I don't like it personally. It doesn't do that much damage and the SR damage is annoying.
Draco Meteor
Haze
Earthquake
Roost
It launches a (relatively) powerful draco then when the opponent thinks I'm about to switch due to the spec att drop, I use haze to recover my special attack. I can also recover my health with roost. It's particularly good when the opponent tries to set up on it, I can use haze to cancel their boosts and recover my spec att :).
Earthquake is mainly for type coverage, particularly against Bastiodon and Probopass, the main things that laugh at draco meteors. It can also be used after a draco due to it being physical.
It's not the best set but still very fun to use :p. I tried the common specs set but I don't like it personally. It doesn't do that much damage and the SR damage is annoying.
I like the idea, except Altaria does have Power Swap. This still essentailly resets Altaria's Sp.Atk level while also neutering it's opponents (Ice Beam still trucks through it). What makes Power Swap interesting is its ability to mess up Calm Minders. -2 Altaria against +2 Musharna? Power Swap allows you to turn the tables and strike back harder, while the Calm Minder can do little about it.
Punchshroom
Actually the Calm Mind user still has the advantage when using Power Swap over Haze. This is because Power Swap would only trade around Altaria's SpA with the opposing mon's SpA. This means that the CM'r's Special Defense boosts are intact and it can keep setting up effortlessly against Altaria. The trade off only really works the first time since giving a CM'r -2 SpA every time you Power Swap means that every consecutive time you Draco, it will be weaker against the CM user who is quickly building its Special Defense.
About the CBTorterra + SpecsTaria core that DTC was talking about, this is the original post. Basically what the core did was have SpecsTaria break apart walls, with CBTorterra breaking the ones that Altaria couldn't. With the opponent's defenses shattered SD Samurott could come in and have a game ending sweep with Swords Dance. Of course the core was posted almost a year ago so there needs to be some changes if it someone still wants to use it.
I've actually been trying to make a new team based on the old core which basically revolves around SpecsTaria, SR Synthesis LO Torterra, and Shell Smash LO Carracosta. This has Spikes support to break walls down faster, but in general the team ends up being pretty slow. I have a certain fast Scarf Pokemon, but in the end it's something I'll have to tweak later on.
Actually the Calm Mind user still has the advantage when using Power Swap over Haze. This is because Power Swap would only trade around Altaria's SpA with the opposing mon's SpA. This means that the CM'r's Special Defense boosts are intact and it can keep setting up effortlessly against Altaria. The trade off only really works the first time since giving a CM'r -2 SpA every time you Power Swap means that every consecutive time you Draco, it will be weaker against the CM user who is quickly building its Special Defense.
About the CBTorterra + SpecsTaria core that DTC was talking about, this is the original post. Basically what the core did was have SpecsTaria break apart walls, with CBTorterra breaking the ones that Altaria couldn't. With the opponent's defenses shattered SD Samurott could come in and have a game ending sweep with Swords Dance. Of course the core was posted almost a year ago so there needs to be some changes if it someone still wants to use it.
I've actually been trying to make a new team based on the old core which basically revolves around SpecsTaria, SR Synthesis LO Torterra, and Shell Smash LO Carracosta. This has Spikes support to break walls down faster, but in general the team ends up being pretty slow. I have a certain fast Scarf Pokemon, but in the end it's something I'll have to tweak later on.
I rebember to use a Quagsire + Altaria core on in-game battles.
Quagsire is only weak to Grass and had somewhat low special defense.
Altaria double resist's Grass, and has a pretty much nice speed and special defense.
Quagsire by other hand can take any Stone Edge directed to Altaria.
Altaria can take any Earthquake for Quagsire if needed.
Altaria can take any Surf for Quagsire and threat back with Draco Meteor.
Quagsire can take any Thunderbolt and threat back with Earthquake.
Quagsire can just Waterfall any special wall for Altaria, specially those Steel dudes.
Altaria can detroy any physical wall for Quagsire by just using Draco Meteor and stuff.
Quagsire is slow, so, it can Curse up and sweep teams unprepared for that.
Altaria by other hand can be fast with Dragon Dance, and sweep with that.
It's actually a pretty nice core, just somewhat weak to Ice Beam/Blizzard, so, a Fire or Water type able to annoy and counter Ice Beam users is recomended to support the core (not totally necessary, as Quagsire is already a threat for a good bunch of BoltBeamers, and Altaria can check others with Draco Meteor). Of course, Quagsire is RU, but you can just remplace him with Wishcash or Semistoad; Wishcash can offer a more defensive aproach, using Rain Dance, it can cover Altaria from status, while Seismitoad can use Water Absorb or Poison Touch in order to wall better, and being not so dependant of Altaria for cover him all the time.
Any core with Altaria struggles with Stealth Rock, so, Rapid Spin users are recomended. I could rather recomend Life Orb or Choice Specs for Altaria, and Leafovers for the Water / Ground, as Altaria usually will punch hard with Draco Meteor and switch out to the Water / Ground one.
Quagsire is only weak to Grass and had somewhat low special defense.
Altaria double resist's Grass, and has a pretty much nice speed and special defense.
Quagsire by other hand can take any Stone Edge directed to Altaria.
Altaria can take any Earthquake for Quagsire if needed.
Altaria can take any Surf for Quagsire and threat back with Draco Meteor.
Quagsire can take any Thunderbolt and threat back with Earthquake.
Quagsire can just Waterfall any special wall for Altaria, specially those Steel dudes.
Altaria can detroy any physical wall for Quagsire by just using Draco Meteor and stuff.
Quagsire is slow, so, it can Curse up and sweep teams unprepared for that.
Altaria by other hand can be fast with Dragon Dance, and sweep with that.
It's actually a pretty nice core, just somewhat weak to Ice Beam/Blizzard, so, a Fire or Water type able to annoy and counter Ice Beam users is recomended to support the core (not totally necessary, as Quagsire is already a threat for a good bunch of BoltBeamers, and Altaria can check others with Draco Meteor). Of course, Quagsire is RU, but you can just remplace him with Wishcash or Semistoad; Wishcash can offer a more defensive aproach, using Rain Dance, it can cover Altaria from status, while Seismitoad can use Water Absorb or Poison Touch in order to wall better, and being not so dependant of Altaria for cover him all the time.
Any core with Altaria struggles with Stealth Rock, so, Rapid Spin users are recomended. I could rather recomend Life Orb or Choice Specs for Altaria, and Leafovers for the Water / Ground, as Altaria usually will punch hard with Draco Meteor and switch out to the Water / Ground one.
Another reincarnation of that core that saw use was CBoar + Spectaria. Obviously you can't use it now, but it helps form a good idea of what makes a good partner for Spectaria (powerful physical attackers that can beat Steel-types). Anyways, in response to Dracoyoshi's set, I feel like alot of those calcs aren't too impressive. The first few mons aren't exactly things you're sending in to take on physical attackers, and HP Ice Tangela will beat Altaria. That leaves Garbodor (who can still set up hazards) and Alomomola (which is setup fodder for just about anything with a Sub anyways). So yeah. Maybe some calcs on other physical walls (or other mons lured in expecting a Spectaria) would better convince me of the set's power but for now I'm not really seeing it.
Sawsbuck
Type: Normal / Grass
Base Stats: 80 HP / 100 Atk / 70 Def / 60 SpA / 70 SpD / 95 Spe
Ability: Chlorophyll / Sap Sipper / Serene Grace
With the tier changes this month, many of the better checks to Sawsbuck mvoed up to RU. No more Cinccino to outspeed it, Amoonguss to wall it, and Absol to revenge kill it. Sawsbuck has always been one of the better physical attackers, STAB Double-Edge really tears the meta apart. How does Sawsbuck fare in this metagame?
Discuss; I can't wait to see the discussion that comes out of this!
also im taking this over from DTC cause he's a good guy :).
I used Sawsbuck on a Baton Pass team... din't work that bad, if you gave him a Sword Dance boost and Choice Band, he will pretty much restore all it's HP with just Horn Leech, or with the Sword Dance Boost you can use a more bulkier spread in order to resist A LOT with just Double-Edge + Horn Leech, is pretty nice, specially because he can also Baton Pass any boost when is checked, and it's ability is just masterful in order to check sleep abussers. He can also Sword Dance itself, but that rather needs of Dual Screens support as Sawsbuck rarely have the enough bulk to setup and rush.
Too bad he's a shaky counter to Butterfree, as 1+ Quiver Dance Butterfree just destroy him, but he's good against almost any other sleep abusser. Chlorophyll is also a decent ability for sun teams, but there are over there better abussers, actually, and Serene Grace doesn't do nothing more than change Rock Smash's 50% of defense reduction rate to 100% and Bounce's paralysis rate from 30% to 60%, if you want to use both moves then it may have an use, but that's too gimnnicky.
Sometimes I planned to use him as a Sun Starter Lead, as he scare away more than the half of hazards leads and support leads with just Horn Leech, it's type, and Sap Sipper, and does well against some offensive leads like Floatzel, he can recover it's damage with Horn Leech pretty well, he does have an decent bulk that can be increased futher with the correct EV spread, he does have an inmunity, he's not Taunt bait as 100 base attack with STAB Return/Double Edge/Horn Leech seriously does something, and can even first Sword Dance, setup sun, and Baton Pass the Swords, great, but I have to complete my sun team first to really test it out...
I like it, anyway.
Too bad he's a shaky counter to Butterfree, as 1+ Quiver Dance Butterfree just destroy him, but he's good against almost any other sleep abusser. Chlorophyll is also a decent ability for sun teams, but there are over there better abussers, actually, and Serene Grace doesn't do nothing more than change Rock Smash's 50% of defense reduction rate to 100% and Bounce's paralysis rate from 30% to 60%, if you want to use both moves then it may have an use, but that's too gimnnicky.
Sometimes I planned to use him as a Sun Starter Lead, as he scare away more than the half of hazards leads and support leads with just Horn Leech, it's type, and Sap Sipper, and does well against some offensive leads like Floatzel, he can recover it's damage with Horn Leech pretty well, he does have an decent bulk that can be increased futher with the correct EV spread, he does have an inmunity, he's not Taunt bait as 100 base attack with STAB Return/Double Edge/Horn Leech seriously does something, and can even first Sword Dance, setup sun, and Baton Pass the Swords, great, but I have to complete my sun team first to really test it out...
I like it, anyway.
having cinccino and amoonguss leave NU provided much more opportunities for sawsbuck. sawsbuck needed a swords dance to nab a potential KO on amoonguss with double-edge, which was pretty hard to do among threats like cinccino and emboar back then. switching into amoonguss was also risky since sawsbuck can't afford to take a sludge bomb. setting up was therefore pretty hard, and cinccino didn't make it any easier when it could even threaten sawsbuck using substitute.
Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
Trait: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Double-Edge
- Nature Power
this is basically sawsbuck's trademark set, allowing it to threaten almost everything that is slower (most pokemon in NU) than it after a swords dance boost. normal/grass is great coverage on its own, and nature power pretty much rounds it off by doing great damage to steel- and fire-types that would normally be able to switch in. sawsbuck has very few checks, such as tangela and drifblim, but it's still manageable between its life orb recoil and all the pokemon that are faster than it. that's why sawsbuck is really cool; it's a great fit on many offensive teams, but it's not really overpowering by any means. sawsbuck is perfect in NU right now.
substitute over nature power is also a really neat option on swords dance sawsbuck. sawsbuck is quite frail, but substitute eases prediction and gives sawsbuck some chances to set up more easily. it still messes with sucker punch from the likes of skuntank, but sawsbuck can also avoid status moves or have some kind of buffer from other random priority moves. the best part about using substitute is that sawsbuck can use a salac or liechi berry to become more threatening, all while gaining chunks of hp back with horn leech.
sawsbuck can run other interesting sets too. baton pass means that it can help aid another pokemon's sweep through swords dance, agility, or sap sipper boosts. the frailty is a little unappealing, but sawsbuck's 95 base speed and the possible surprise factor of this set can really mess up opposing teams. choiced sets are entirely possible too, because sawsbuck has other options in wild charge and megahorn. i'm not too big of a fan of a choiced set though, because sawsbuck becomes much easier to take advantage of considering all its attacking options are easily resisted. however, sawsbuck can run baton pass on a choiced set as a scouting initiative, similarly to u-turn or volt switch.
Sawsbuck @ Life Orb
Trait: Sap Sipper
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Horn Leech
- Double-Edge
- Nature Power
this is basically sawsbuck's trademark set, allowing it to threaten almost everything that is slower (most pokemon in NU) than it after a swords dance boost. normal/grass is great coverage on its own, and nature power pretty much rounds it off by doing great damage to steel- and fire-types that would normally be able to switch in. sawsbuck has very few checks, such as tangela and drifblim, but it's still manageable between its life orb recoil and all the pokemon that are faster than it. that's why sawsbuck is really cool; it's a great fit on many offensive teams, but it's not really overpowering by any means. sawsbuck is perfect in NU right now.
substitute over nature power is also a really neat option on swords dance sawsbuck. sawsbuck is quite frail, but substitute eases prediction and gives sawsbuck some chances to set up more easily. it still messes with sucker punch from the likes of skuntank, but sawsbuck can also avoid status moves or have some kind of buffer from other random priority moves. the best part about using substitute is that sawsbuck can use a salac or liechi berry to become more threatening, all while gaining chunks of hp back with horn leech.
sawsbuck can run other interesting sets too. baton pass means that it can help aid another pokemon's sweep through swords dance, agility, or sap sipper boosts. the frailty is a little unappealing, but sawsbuck's 95 base speed and the possible surprise factor of this set can really mess up opposing teams. choiced sets are entirely possible too, because sawsbuck has other options in wild charge and megahorn. i'm not too big of a fan of a choiced set though, because sawsbuck becomes much easier to take advantage of considering all its attacking options are easily resisted. however, sawsbuck can run baton pass on a choiced set as a scouting initiative, similarly to u-turn or volt switch.
Sawsbuck has generally been one of my favourite pokemon to use in NU since it's introduction. While it's movepool isnt the most diverse, it does have good moves and two really great abilities (three, but Serene Grace is unfortunately negligible, seeing as the only viable [in a pretty extreme case] move boosted by Serene Grace is Bounce. This may actually prove helpful though, with a Subseed + Bounce set [dont try that]) being Chlorophyll and Sap Sipper.
I personally don't use weather that much, making Chlorophyll something I wont use. Sap Sipper was amazing when Amoonguss was ever-prominent; getting an attack boost for switching in on Spore and not falling asleep was great. It still works with Vileplume's return. That being said Sawsbuck is a grass type, so it shouldnt be taking too many grass type hits anyway.
Ium's set
is my favourite set to use because it just shows how Sawsbuck can dent a team by just clicking attacks after a Swords Dance. I've actually seen Sub+Camouflage used in conjunction with Nature Power for STAB + ground type to alleviate the Fighting and Flying type weakness while retaining sap sipper, thought this is gimmicky at best.
I guess Ill try some different Sawsbuck sets out and post more about it some other time, but really there isnt much I want to say that I havent.
Say I like it ✔
Talk about abilities ✔
Sparce movepool ✔
Gimmicks ✔
- Status