Team Astral Projection (Ranked #1)

husk · Jun 29th, 2008, 7:04:36 PM

AstralProjection
Overview:

Intro:
It has been discussed, ever since the introduction of Deoxys-s to the ou tier, that purely offensive teams can not be very effective. This is apparently supported by the overall metagame shifting to bulky sweepers and generally bulky teams. "Astral Projection" has been very successful for me. I have had this team for 5 days now. On the first day this team allowed me to attain a ranking of 2nd on the Shoddy Battle OU ladder with a rating of 1707. The next day it was able to reach first (and was passed shortly after). Finally, on the fourth day team Astral Projection was able to attain a more lasting first place with a rating of 1740.

Game Plan:
This team is built around the basic offensive concept of using high powered sweepers to overwhelm the opposition. The success of this team, I believe, lies in the way this is executed. Aero leading usually puts the team on the offensive from the start of the match. From there it is essentially up to me and how I play. This team has immense potential and it's really up to the user whether or not it gets utilized. Each of the pokemon bring their own strengths and resistances to the table and through solid play I believe this team is unbeatable. That is not to say that this team can not lose horribly. In fact, this team has a very good chance of doing so if your opponent plays better than you. Through the "Team Work" section under each of the pokemon I will attempt to explain how I feel is the best way to play each pokemon in respect to individual situations.

In Depth:

@ Focus Sash
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake

Description: Aero is a great lead. He usually gets off a quick SR and can often cripple leading pokes such as mence/gyara/gar/azelf. Slower leads are generally there to SR so he'll taunt them to keep the rocks off. I had Stone Edge over Rock Slide and Ice Fang over Earthquake but I found that I missed far too often with both for them to be useful. I also realized I had a metagross problem so the more ground attacks, the better.

EVs: Jolly and 252 is a bit paranoid as crobat, jolteon, and other aero are usually not seen around but I can't think of anywhere better to put the EVs. I wouldn't change it to adamant (even though the extra damage would push intimidated rockslide to a 2hko instead of a 3hko on mence and gyara) as outspeeding leading azelf is very important as it is rather challenging for this team to defeat.

Team Work: This team doesn't really have a problem with SR as I only have two pokemon who are weak to it one of which leads. Aero's job is to make sure the rocks stay off the field until gyara can have his run. Gyara needs all of his health to properly sodomize my opponent's team. Aero usually lures out pokemon such as bronzong and hippowdon who after a taunt can not do much to gyara so I get a free DD. When facing a fast lead I tend to attack since they usually stick around to fight as well. Often Azelf/Mence/Gyara/Weavile leads stick around and I can get a quick ko or weaken them. Then I get out SR as quickly as I can. Taunting celebi or vaporeon is very important for this team as gyara can easily dispose of either if they are weakened or can not use their recovery.

@ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Ice Fang
- Waterfall

Description: The set is fairly self explanitory. After a DD few things can stand up to this. This 2hkos celebi and with SR down often ohkos Starmie. Cresselia is 2 or 3hkoed and so is skarmory. If this gets a DD in my opponent generally loses at least one very valuable member of their defensive core which is very important as most of those pokemon are used to counter multiple threats.

EVs: Max attack as this hits most pokemon at least neutral so getting the most out of the few turns it is in play is very important. 176 speed gets Gyara to 242 speed which lets you out speed Starmie/Azelf/Raikou after a DD. I just put the rest into HP and it turns out it is a very good number to use with life orb as after KOing people's Celebis and Starmies they sometimes send out ScarfChomp and his outrages just barely fail to ko gyara while gyara ohkos him (and promptly dies to LO recoil).

Team Work: Gyara usually struts his stuff early game by easily switching into common aero counters. Since this gyara is designed to take out the pokemon that believe they can counter it, it is often the target of scarfed pokemon aiming to revenge kill it. Obviously those revenge killers are using an electric attack so with a little prediction you can bring in Garchomp to wreck further havoc. Sometimes it is beneficial to forgo that prediction as giving Garchomp a free turn my seal the game for you regardless of what happens to Gyara. Basically, use your head.

@ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 Atk/252 Spd/216 SAtk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Explosion
- Focus Blast
- Hypnosis

Description: Shadow Ball/Focus Blast hit everything neutrally and Hypnosis+Explosion basically guarantees that Gengar will take two pokemon out of the match. LO moves a lot of 3hkos to 2hkos which is extremely important for Gengar as with a little prediction you may manage to die from 10 turns of LO recoil rather than your opponent's attacks.

EVs: 40 attack allows gengar to make good use of Explosion (and ohko bliss all the time). Max speed is to beat infernape and tie/beat other gengar. The Special Attack should not be placed anywhere else either as Gengar hits a lot of things neutral and needs as much brute force as possible.

Team Work: Being immune to three types is great. Along with it's revenge killing capabilities it helps with water types and bulky psychics. My opponents generally end up sacrificing their tyranitar to this while trying to wear gar down with stream+lo damage. I try to keep Gengar alive as he is a monster late game and I also do not have something to take ground attacks as Gyara and Aero generally die early.

@ Choice Band
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Fire Fang
- Outrage

Description: This thing is absolutely amazing. There really isn't much this doesn't straight up 2hko with sr down so if my opponent switches I should net a KO unless I predict incorrectly.

EVs: Adamant over Jolly for the power to 2hko cresselia and suicune when sr is down. I've run into a few problems with timid cm jirachi but my other members should be able to handle it (namely Aero). The rest is obvious.

Team Work: Garchomp can usually come in on Zapdos and since they usually stick around to prevent me from possibly SD'ing up for free I get a quick KO on a very dangerous pokemon. Garchomp is mainly used to power past very bulky pokemon like: Cresselia, Dusknoir, Celebi, Suicune, etc. These pokemon generally do not have the offense to ohko Garchomp but their team for some reason relies on them to take it out so that when they are quickly 2hkoed it becomes far easier to sweep them with gengar/lucario. Choiced Ice Attacks and regular Ice Shards aimed at this should be directed to Lucario who makes very good use of free turns.

@ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Extremespeed

Description: Lucario tears stuff up with or without SDing. Bullet Punch is used instead of Crunch as Dusknoir, Celebi, and Cresselia are usually overwhelmed by the offense on this team while opposing Gengars and Mismagius' are a very serious threat. LO is required as a SD'ed bullet punch doesn't ohko gengar otherwise.

EVs: Adamant is, again, the nature of choice as I have two priority moves to make up for the lack of speed. The only time I regret not having jolly is against full health, max speed, jolly LO Mamo which doesn't happen too often and I have other ways around it anyway.

Team Work: My team can wear down the opponent's team very easily so Lucario is able to quickly ping off pokemon even without an SD. Should the opportunity/need arise Lucario can SD and sweep just as well as Gyara and Gengar. Lucario resists ghost and ice attacks aimed at gengar and garchomp respectively and so he has many opportunities to SD or get in free shots on the opponent's team. I usually end up revealing this early game and then not using it until late game. Many teams fear a timely Lucario switch so they end up playing far more conservatively after he has been revealed.

@ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Superpower
- Shadow Ball

Description: Shadow Ball is placed over Psychic and Recover as I have trouble with Psychic types. Shadow Ball also helps me revenge kill nonscarfed Gar.

EVs: Max Speed is absolutely required to revenge kill stuff and defend myself against other Deoxys-s. Max SpAtk is standard and I don't really mind not being able to ohko bliss/heatran as I am rarely in a position where it would even matter whether or not I could.

Team Work: Cleans up whatever mess there is late game. I'm often in situations where Life Orb puts me on a time limit and so I'm thinking "5 turns to beat 4 pokemon" and often deoxys-s is able to pull it off. This thing is the only reason Gyarados doesn't sweep me every time it comes out and it is my easy way out on choiced chomps who try to grab a quick kill by outraging. This can easily come into STAB psychics.

Threat List:
Tyranitar - Garchomp, Lucario, and Deoxys-S's revenge killing abilities.
Gyarados - Deoxys-S can stop it if it gets a DD. I usually try to pressure it so that it doesn't.
Infernape - Gengar, and Aero can both switch in relatively easily and ohko depending on what move I believe it'll use.
Azelf - Deoxys-S can switch in on any of it's moves once and Lucario can revenge kill it from 50%.
Rhyperior - All of my pokemon can hit it hard.
Electivire - I've only got 1 electric move on the team and it comes from a pokemon is faster than electivire even after the motor drive boost. This isn't really threatening otherwise.
Heracross - Gengar and Gyara. Garchomp can help too in a pinch.
Salamence - Doesn't really have a chance to switch in with SR getting down early and my pokes hitting so hard. Dexoys-s can revenge kill.
Togekiss - SR prevents it from switching in and out too much and Aero has RS, Gyara has IF, Garchomp can ohko with Outrage. It doesn't like Lucario's CC and Deoxy's IB/tbolt either.
Gengar - Aero can 2hko and doesn't really mind dying or being put to sleep. Deoxys-S can revenge kill and my own Gengar ties with the fastest ones.
Garchomp - A mix of hitting it hard with whatever is out and revenge killing with deoxys-s.
Raikou - This guy is trouble. If aero is out then I have to handle him with Lucario's ES and Deoxys-S's Superpower.
Lucario - Gengar can take fighting attacks, Garchomp can take pretty much anything it throws once and Deoxys-S can revenge kill.
Tauros - Gengar for normal and ground attacks. The other attacks aren't so threatening. So Gyara/Chomp/Aero/Dexoys can handle them.
Starmie - Deoxys-S, Gengar at full health, Lucario if its weak. Though usually I never have to deal with it as it comes into DD'ed Gyara and dies.
Weavile - Lucario mainly. Sr being down helps here.
Dugtrio - Counter??
Alakazam - Deoxys-S
PorygonZ - These are usually scarfed and I basically get free play time with my sweepers whenever it comes out.
Medicham - Never seen one but I'd guess a combination of gyara and gengar.
Staraptor - Gengar+Aero+Gyara+Deoxys-s
Slowbro - This usually comes in on Garchomp and gets 2hkoed. Gengar can also deal with it.
Machamp - Rather troublesome. Gengar usually has to explode or hypnotize this.
Jolteon - I usually see these as leads and so I either win the speed war and my opponent is pissed or I live because of sash and get the ko anyway.
Aerodactyl - SR+Lucario/Deoxys-S
Snorlax - Too slow to do anything. Everything minus Aero (who can taunt it's curses) can 2hko with SR down.
Zapdos - Garchomp usually takes this out. SR is useful in beating this as gengar and lucario can suddenly 2hko them and Gyara can ohko after a DD.
Blissey - Everything has a plan to beat blissey.
Suicune - Garchomp 2hkos with outrage. Gyara can usually set up on it.
Sceptile - No idea. Gengar and Deoxys-S
Breloom - Breloom has never done anything against this team.
Slaking - Never seen one but the free turns it gives are appreciated.
Tangrowth - Usually comes out to meet Aero, gets taunted and eventually gives me an easy switch to Gar.
Ninjask - Aero taunts then slides. With SR down after it runs the first time it usually can't do anything.
Metagross - Pretty dangerous. Everything can "revenge kill"
Heatran - Scarfed versions give me free turns while rest/talk versions get dominated by pretty much all of my pokemon.
Celebi - Very annoying if played correctly. Usually my opponents waste it trying to stop gyara.
Jirachi - Timid ones with HP Ice are very troublesome but otherwise Garchomp and Lucario can handle them fine.
Deoxys-S - Lucario can take it out from about 70% if it has LO. Most other deoxys-s's can't ohko mine and even if they can they are usually slower.

Conclusion:
This was mainly done to have solid proof that offensive teams are just as effective as they were before. If you even skim over the counters section you'll see that most of my "counters" involved prediction and/or revenge killing which is still a viable way to play pokemon as shown by the success of this team. I urge all of you to play with offensive teams. If I forgot something that would be useful just mention it and I'll edit this post. Rate My Team!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to Smogon for the sprites at the top and the pictures are thanks to Aragonbird.

Articanus · Jun 29th, 2008, 7:14:17 PM

Well don't we just think alike ;P
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42312
We both have the same exact Aerodactyl and Lucario sets. Furthermore, our Gengra's are almost exact(I'm hesitant as to decide the fourth move). We also posted our threat lists very similarly, with mine having pictures and a larger amount of threats and detail. We both have garchomp, but that's where our similarities end.
---------------

Now, onto your team!
I can't really argue with the lead at all. It prevents set ups from defensive teams, temporarily halting they're way of dealing consecutive damage. This being residual damage. As you mentioned, it also helps to keep Sleep starters from basically making the score 5-6 and keeps Gyarados healthy through the lack of starting Stealth Rock. You can even use Aerodactyl as a sacrifice to send out Gyarados and Lucario for an attempt at an early game sweep.
Your Gyarados is very potent and is obviously made to counter the current metagame. Hell, that EXACT SET is listed in my thread as the bane of my entire team. I would personally put more speed to outspeed Weavile, but seeing as how rare he is, it really doesn't make a difference. Actually, it does, because from what you say, it allows Gyara to survive those popular Scarfed Garchomp. The only problem with the set is that an ultra-defensive Gyarados can come in and try to set up on you: but Deoxys-s takes those, doesn't it?
Gengar is also good. Is there any reason why you use 40 attack EVs? I'm just asking because I'm looking for a decent 4th move on my team, and Explosion is good as any. However, I'm relunctant to lower Gengar's superb speed or sp. attack to justify it's use. Anything worthwile that it kills that nothing on your team can?
Obviously you have your reason for having Garchomp Adamant, and I'm not questioning that. The set looks good otherwise.
Lucario is always awesome with SR support. Especially with Aero as your starter(I would know).
Deoxys-s seems like the odd man out: it seems to have a similar job as gengar, hence his exclusion on my team. However, you know how to play your own team better than anyone, so I won't use theorymon to argue with this.

Slapjax · Jun 29th, 2008, 7:30:57 PM

Let me first say that this is the most magnificent team i've ever seen. Not that it's the most well crafted, although it may quite possibly be, it's that i hate how the metagame has evolved into what we have now. I hate how everybody has all bulky pokemon and celetran. This team is a breath of fresh air for me, and i assume for most other people that have grown to dislike the new standard way of battling.

A bit more on topic, i'm afraid that it's difficult to call this a truly offensive team do to the number of stat up sweepers. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but in my offensive teams i prefer to use pokemon that hit hard immediately.

I know your gyara works great for you, but i'd like to suggest a restalking set with dd and waterfall. it's walled, or rather taken advantage of by vappy, but it can beat celebi with twave and those steel bastards. i realize it goes against the speedy theme, but it can prove very usefull against opponents that rely on status to counter gyara. Nobody likes water dragons after a couple dd's.

Honestly, i don't think that this team should be changed at all. You'll get a few suggestions here and there, but overall i think that the success of this team speaks for itself.

A very strong team indeed sir!

**Taylor** · Jun 29th, 2008, 7:35:40 PM

This was an interesting read, husk. Glad to see you remain an established successor with the offensive style. I doubt the logic in removing any members from your party, and therefore won't bother.

I can ackowledge why you're using Dragon Claw on Garchomp (it is, afterall, the standard these days), but I recommend you replace it for Stone Edge. I prefer the ability to OHKO Zapdos and Gyarados (Intimidate not included), and to a lesser extent, Togekiss. Further, the Rock-type and Ground-type paired together is never a forgotten tool. I'm lead to believe Outrage fails to OHKO Bold Zapdos, and therefore the OHKO with Stone Edge is much more benificial. Additionally, you aren't locked into Outrage so early in the game.

Not that crucial, though.

blasphemy1 · Jun 29th, 2008, 9:00:22 PM

Not trying to rehash previous posts but yes Stone Edge should replace Dragon Claw for Gyarados, Zapdos, and even Cloyster, who usually walls BandChomp.

Finally, Fire Blast does more to Skarmory than Fire Fang even with the Band, so maybe use Fire Blast instead.

Kietharr · Jun 29th, 2008, 9:17:04 PM

Timid seems a bit off on explosion gengar, imo switch it to hasty or something, any +spe/-def or sp. def nature would work. It's not like gengar is really going to be taking any hits and extra attack couldn't hurt him.

chaos 9 · Jun 29th, 2008, 9:27:07 PM

I find this interesting and educational as I have always wanted to see one of your teams. Another thing I find ironic is that you had a very well known TSS team back in adv and now it seems that you have gone the exact opposite route here in d/p. That is a testament to your well rounded battling skills.

Moving on, I see one pretty important weakness. A full health Yache chomp could come in on, say, aerodactyl and get a free SD. What would you do then? The most reliable thing would be to blow up on it with gar, but that should not be relied on. Gyra counters it to an extent, but I believe it is 2hkoed by SDed outrage. Since your garchomp is adamant, there is no chance for a speed tie there as most yache chomps are jolly now adays. If played right, said chomp could retain enough health and yache to stop the deoxys-s revenge kill. I am sure you could counter it, but it would probably get at least a kill or 2.

Overall, great team. I learned somthing from just reading it.

~~jrrrrrrr~~ · Jun 29th, 2008, 9:45:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat husk

Intro:
It has been discussed, ever since the introduction of Deoxys-s to the ou tier, that purely offensive teams can not be very effective. This is apparently supported by the overall metagame shifting to bulky sweepers and generally bulky teams. "Astral Projection" has been very successful for me. I have had this team for 5 days now. On the first day this team allowed me to attain a ranking of 2nd on the Shoddy Battle OU ladder with a rating of 1707. The next day it was able to reach first (and was passed shortly after). Finally, on the fourth day team Astral Projection was able to attain a more lasting first place with a rating of 1740.

Conclusion:
This was mainly done to have solid proof that offensive teams are just as effective as they were before. If you even skim over the counters section you'll see that most of my "counters" involved prediction and/or revenge killing which is still a viable way to play pokemon as shown by the success of this team. I urge all of you to play with offensive teams. If I forgot something that would be useful just mention it and I'll edit this post. Rate My Team!

This team is fast and obviously very hard to stop with conventional methods, but please don't act like it proves that D-S doesn't make these teams unviable. It OHKOs 5 out of 6 members of this team with its standard set, and the only move you have that can touch it is Lucario's Extremespeed/Bullet Punch. Obviously, you are going to have some major issues in handling it, since you only have Stealth Rock that can reliably cause damage to it. You have to hope that Lucario can revenge kill it, or that your own Deoxys outspeeds and hits with Shadow Ball to stop it. Basically, any attacking Deoxys will run through this team so I don't see how you can say that this is definitive proof that Deoxys doesn't dominate these teams. If anything, this team helps to prove that Deoxys dominates this style of play.

With all of that said, defensive Celebi's can also give you some trouble. To be honest, I would drop either Bullet Punch or Extremespeed on Luke for either Crunch to help with Celebi or Stone Edge to prevent Gyarados or Zapdos from coming in, since you even admit that Gyarados will give this team issues.

Zapdos also hurts it quite a bit, since it's given a free switchin via Lucario. I know you can "play around it", but when it comes in you will have quite a bit of difficulty since Garchomp is the only pokemon that Zapdos won't beat 1-on-1.

edit- Starmie also runs through this team with ease. Maybe that YacheChomp would be a good idea, otherwise you'll have to rely on Deoxys. That's another good reason to consider Crunch over BP/ES as well.

~~jrrrrrrr~~ · Jun 29th, 2008, 10:31:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat SirHandsome6

yet he's #1, and the top of the ladder seems to me to be riddled with offensive teams despite deoxys-s

Uhh..how does that prove that Deoxys doesn't manhandle these teams?

Husk is Deoxys weak. Deoxys OHKOs almost all of husk's team without even trying. But, husk made it to #1 on the ladder. This means that husk is not Deoxys weak. That is the argument that you just presented. Do you see how silly that is?

To me, having 5/6 of your team OHKOd is pretty much dominance. Deoxys simply isn't used much because of the general regression towards bulky offense where it isn't as superior. Husk is using an anti-metagame team, so of course he will be able to win in an environment where D-S is largely ignored. I want to thank Husk for trying to repopularize heavy offense so that D-S' impact becomes more prevalent. If you want to talk more on this subject, I would suggest sending me a PM since this is far off topic for the RMT forum.

Articanus · Jun 29th, 2008, 10:56:14 PM

The only thing stopping Deoxys-s from beating his team is his own Deoxys-s(which has max speed, probably just to beat other ones), and Lucario's Extremespeed. he also has SR, but in general is very weak to it like any other offensive team. It just doesn't work.
My own team, which is very offensive in nature and works very closely to this one, actually dedicated a whole slot to take care of this weakness. His name is Jirachi with Body Slam, as even the Taunt/ Cosmic Power/ Recover/ Night Shade set can give offensive teams problems, especially ones like this that rely on stat-upping. Of course, gengar can come in, but only a limited amount of times before LO and Night Shade, not to mention potential SR and SS, causes it to faint, leaving him with only his own Deoxys-e to take it: once again, a very sketchy counter.
In general, it's things like this that makes me PRAY that it gets banned again >.>

Slapjax · Jun 29th, 2008, 11:10:57 PM

In light of the fact that fact that deoxys could run through you given the opportunity, dare i suggest...GASP! Wobbufet. I'm not exactly sure where to put him, but he would sure as hell solve that problem. I don't think that you would have any problem predicting a switch in with Deoxys, it's when he can come in for free that seems to be the issue. I too am in favor of a jirachi here. The best place i see for it is over aerodactyl, as it will still allow you to put up the rocks and is a viable lead. I usually go with body slam/ zen headbutt/ wish/ stealth rock.

Articanus · Jun 29th, 2008, 11:19:33 PM

I wouldn't reccomend wobbuffet, as he's probably going back into ubers soon. however, I wouldn't mind him putting Scarf on gengar: however, choice is kinda limiting on an all-offensive team, and Deoxys-s can handle most revenge kills quite effectively.

SirHandsome6 · Jun 30th, 2008, 5:09:57 AM

i played against him with this team quite a few times in the last few days and one of the teams ive been using and most often played him with happens to be very similar, and i'd say that the lead aerodactyl is very key because it lets him get a head start on other offensive teams while screwing others over with taunt.

its undeniable that theres a deoxys weakness but you have to remember that deoxys cant really switch into a hard hitting team, and if you have your own shadow ball deoxys since most people dont run max speed, or something else to revenge opposing deoxys then you're golden. like astral, i also ran a max speed deoxys with shadow ball for a while for the sole purpose of killing other deoxys on my offensive team (unfortunately i always lost the speed tie with astral - he's the only other ive played running max speed so it caught me by surprise), but in the end i found that certain choice scarfers caused my glass cannons even more trouble than deoxys and changed it up

deoxys isn't just the bane of offensive teams, he's also one of their greatest gifts, because if you utilize him he lets you kill off annoying random choice scarfers that can otherwise stop you in your tracks when your resistance happens to be dead.

**Lee** · Jun 30th, 2008, 11:03:20 AM

Fantastic team, husk and a model RMT. I especially like the way you've but in a rarely seen BL and made him look at right at home amongst the others. I can definatley see Aero getting you off on the right foot more often than not. And four Life Orbs is either insanity or genious!

You have most threats covered well which is an accomplishment in itself in such an offensive team but I can't help but worry about Metagross. You eluded to it in your threat list, but it's Agilagross that I'm especially worried about. He can set up without suffering too much damage against Deoxys or 2/4 of Garchomps moves. Everyone is OHKO'd by Meteor Mash/Thunderpunch/Earthquake with the exception of Garchomp who takes 70.67% - 82.96% from LO Meteor Mash.

Obviously, if you replaced anything to cover that flaw then another weakness would just open up in it's place...Agilagross is rare enough for you to get by and you may be able to play around him and let him weaken himself with LO to the point where Deoxys can finish him off. It's not a huge concern, I was just fishing for weaknesses. ;P

.Baris. · Jun 30th, 2008, 11:14:19 AM

oh husk,you are astral ? o.O xD
i see a big cm lucario weak because they are timid and have almost hp ice and you`re garchomp is adamant which is slower then cm lucario.I dont know why you play boom ggar,you havent a pkmn which benefit if you boom bliss.In one of our battle`s you became big problems with reflect cress :/

Mystica · Jun 30th, 2008, 11:42:31 AM

I had a feeling Astral Projection was husk... thanks for telling me jerk! :P This team looks like its pretty hard to use, and needs alot of prediction to win.

Anyway great job using Aerodactyl, i used the exact same version (RS flinch is awesome lol) in my NoSwitch team, and it prevented everysingle StealthRocker/Status-er they threw at me. So after you taunt a bronzong I guess you switch to Gyarados?

I guess shadow ball is better than pyschic on deo-e, never really thought of that. I always loved OHKOing things that didn't resist with Psychoboost lol.

I really think that Lucario should have Crunch. Bullet punch is only for gengar right? Wouldn't you rather have Celebi/Dusknoir/Cress killed? I would think Cresselia gives you alot of problems. Even maybe the rare CM versions >.<.

The only thing I don't like about CBAdamantChomp is that it is so easily revenge killed, since everything 304+ outspeeds it and kills it. Have you tried the YacheSD version for this team?

anyway, love the team. i made a similar version with scarftran and a gengar lead.

M Dragon · Jun 30th, 2008, 12:01:01 PM

Another gyarados or gengar can also give you some problems, as you can only revenge kill them with Deoxys-e.
Gyarados with Stone Edge and a DD can beat all your team except Deoxys-E (outspeeds gyara), and Deoxys-E doesn't like Waterfalls.
Gengar can also be problematic, specially a LO Gengar with Thunderbolt. Deoxys-E can revenge kill it, but it cannot switch

Great team, and it works very well, but needs some prediction: covers most threats without losing offensive power, and I like your Aerodactyl: it prevent an early stealth rock or hypnosis, and puts its own stealth.

HECTORtu · Jun 30th, 2008, 1:18:48 PM

M Dragon, in case you didn't notice, the whole point of this team is to win by revenge killing and setting up huge offensive threats. He can manage to let one of his pokes die, because the next one is just a big a threat.

The only concerns I have are Agiligross, which has been mentioned already by Lee, and ScarfTimidGar as rare as it is. It outspeeds everything on your team and everything gets OHKOd by the Shadow Ball/ Focus Blast/ HP Ice/ Tbolt set. Only way you can deal with it is switching in and out constantly and eventually getting the Bullet Punch off. Very good team nonetheless.

Also I do like Stone Edge mroe than Ice Fang on Gyarados, since it prevents other Gyaras from stopping your fun, but that is entirely up to you.

Pyong · Jun 30th, 2008, 1:37:44 PM

Replacing a pokémon from this team seens very dangerous, but let me try: Why not a bulky CB metagross over garchomp? He can take deoxys s with pursuit, isn't OHKOed by agilitygross EQ (and has a nice chance of OHKO the oposing metagross with quake). He also counters weavile (CB variations 2HKO your entire team except gyarados, but without being the bulky variation, he can't switch forever).
Anyway, amazing team, but it doesn't prove that deoxys-s do not dominate offensive teams.
Edit: another idea for the team is replacing aerodactyl with azelf. the moveset i sugest is: taunt/stealth rock/psychic/explosion with focus sash. With such a offensive, you can make good use of the "gap" created by the explosion (who will hopefully take out a important pokémon).

Twist of Fate · Jun 30th, 2008, 1:46:05 PM

Theoretically, on paper, any form of Gengar gives him huge problems, especially ScarfGar. I think Bullet Punch is much more useful for this team. Cresselia can easily be taken care of by Gyarados (a DD Waterfall does ~48%, an easy 2HKO with rocks up) and Gengar if need be. Celebi is also handled by Gyarados (Ice Fang does ~65% to the standard), and Gengar if Gyarados fails. For this reason, Ice Fang is also the better option on Gyarados as opposed to Stone Edge. Deoxys-S can always revenge kill Gyarados anyway (I think it outspeeds even the 184 EV speed version after 2 DD).

Anyway, I've played this team multiple times, probably more than any of you lol, and its basically a crapshoot. Its success lies in the switches husk makes as something dies. With no real defensive capabilities, it all comes down to when he chooses to stat up versus switch-in a straight-up attacker. Not much can be changed around (nor should anything) because in any given match, this team can win.

Scruffy · Jun 30th, 2008, 3:24:55 PM

Good read, but I'm not sure you are able to use 4 Life Orbs on a team... What about item clause?

stormtrooper · Jun 30th, 2008, 3:31:10 PM

no item clause on shoddy great team husk life orb is a good item

Arin · Jun 30th, 2008, 7:45:46 PM

I've also tried a sweeper team which was very successful. Which Husk and Twist of Fate would recognize.

Although it was mostly a Bulky Sweeper team. It made me into rank 20 in 1 day. And in the next 2 days I've made it to Rank 10 and stopped Shoddy battling for a while.

Just goes to show how successful sweeper teams are with great predictions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Mystica

I had a feeling Astral Projection was husk... thanks for telling me jerk! :P This team looks like its pretty hard to use, and needs alot of prediction to win.

Anyway great job using Aerodactyl, i used the exact same version (RS flinch is awesome lol) in my NoSwitch team, and it prevented everysingle StealthRocker/Status-er they threw at me. So after you taunt a bronzong I guess you switch to Gyarados?

I guess shadow ball is better than pyschic on deo-e, never really thought of that. I always loved OHKOing things that didn't resist with Psychoboost lol.

I really think that Lucario should have Crunch. Bullet punch is only for gengar right? Wouldn't you rather have Celebi/Dusknoir/Cress killed? I would think Cresselia gives you alot of problems. Even maybe the rare CM versions >.<.

The only thing I don't like about CBAdamantChomp is that it is so easily revenge killed, since everything 304+ outspeeds it and kills it. Have you tried the YacheSD version for this team?

anyway, love the team. i made a similar version with scarftran and a gengar lead.

Bronzong's tend to use Gyro Ball against leading Aerodactyls.

Danyul · Jun 30th, 2008, 8:11:05 PM

Awesome team. It didn't take long for about 80% of everyone on Shoddy to start using it lol, like what happened with Obi's stall team.

In my opinion the biggest problem is opposing Deoxys-S's. Against most dangerous pokemon, you can just revenge kill them with one of your very fast pokemon, but since Deoxys-S outspeeds everything except maybe your own Deoxys, I think you'll have alot of trouble manuevering around him, considering he can OHKO every member of the team. I guess Aerodactyl's Focus Sash and Lucario's Extremespeed are pretty good insurance, especially if Deoxys has a Life Orb, but I still think a well played Deoxys-S is going to be a major pain. I don't really see too much you can do about it either. Yache on Chomp could help, and might just be better than CB in general, but other than that I think Deoxys-S just gives offensive teams like this alot of trouble regardless.

But aside from Deoxys-S, I've found this team to be almost unstoppable, and it shows that offense is not dead. Now time to make a counter team to use on the ladder lol.

Edit: just as an aside, I started using a CBMetagross with Pursuit and a Deoxys-S of my own on my ladder team, and it's pretty much a guaranteed win against this team if you can lure out Deoxys-S. Of course, Pursuit Metagross isn't exactly a common threat, but it was interesting how easy it was to win once Deoxys-S was taken out, because Expert Belt Deoxys just kills everything else so easily. I guess if you were actually really worried about it you could swap Lucario for a Metagross, but he isn't really as threatening so he probably wouldn't be as effective.

nitnit · Jun 30th, 2008, 9:05:17 PM

I love this team. It shows how the over powered offensive OU threats dominate the metagame when used correctly. It seems we have returned to the original theory that D/P is all about speed and power. Still, major props for revealing this team, doing so will actually shift the metagame since people will try to make their own copies or variations of the team. However, without Husk's skill they will ultimately fail (similar to obi's stall team, as partially stated earlier)

Sportfreak - Off subject - Arin (or eternal on marrifail, god those were dark days in my life, this is confirmed by his AIM address) is one of the cockiest individuals I have ever met in my entire life. Still a good guy though.

Jun 29th, 2008, 7:30:57 PM	#3
Slapjax Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: ^^ look at that picture, he has nuts on his face. yikes Posts: 57	Let me first say that this is the most magnificent team i've ever seen. Not that it's the most well crafted, although it may quite possibly be, it's that i hate how the metagame has evolved into what we have now. I hate how everybody has all bulky pokemon and celetran. This team is a breath of fresh air for me, and i assume for most other people that have grown to dislike the new standard way of battling. A bit more on topic, i'm afraid that it's difficult to call this a truly offensive team do to the number of stat up sweepers. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but in my offensive teams i prefer to use pokemon that hit hard immediately. I know your gyara works great for you, but i'd like to suggest a restalking set with dd and waterfall. it's walled, or rather taken advantage of by vappy, but it can beat celebi with twave and those steel bastards. i realize it goes against the speedy theme, but it can prove very usefull against opponents that rely on status to counter gyara. Nobody likes water dragons after a couple dd's. Honestly, i don't think that this team should be changed at all. You'll get a few suggestions here and there, but overall i think that the success of this team speaks for itself. A very strong team indeed sir! Last edited by Slapjax; Jun 29th, 2008 at 8:18:29 PM.

Jun 29th, 2008, 9:27:07 PM	#7
chaos 9 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 427	I find this interesting and educational as I have always wanted to see one of your teams. Another thing I find ironic is that you had a very well known TSS team back in adv and now it seems that you have gone the exact opposite route here in d/p. That is a testament to your well rounded battling skills. Moving on, I see one pretty important weakness. A full health Yache chomp could come in on, say, aerodactyl and get a free SD. What would you do then? The most reliable thing would be to blow up on it with gar, but that should not be relied on. Gyra counters it to an extent, but I believe it is 2hkoed by SDed outrage. Since your garchomp is adamant, there is no chance for a speed tie there as most yache chomps are jolly now adays. If played right, said chomp could retain enough health and yache to stop the deoxys-s revenge kill. I am sure you could counter it, but it would probably get at least a kill or 2. Overall, great team. I learned somthing from just reading it. __________________ If you would like help on any aspect of team building, would like me to rate a team, or have a non postable team you would like me to take a look at, I am just one pm away.

Jun 29th, 2008, 11:10:57 PM	#11
Slapjax Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: ^^ look at that picture, he has nuts on his face. yikes Posts: 57	In light of the fact that fact that deoxys could run through you given the opportunity, dare i suggest...GASP! Wobbufet. I'm not exactly sure where to put him, but he would sure as hell solve that problem. I don't think that you would have any problem predicting a switch in with Deoxys, it's when he can come in for free that seems to be the issue. I too am in favor of a jirachi here. The best place i see for it is over aerodactyl, as it will still allow you to put up the rocks and is a viable lead. I usually go with body slam/ zen headbutt/ wish/ stealth rock. __________________ imperfectluck: i use offence once in a blue moon Slapjax: lol no wonder you have no warstories Slapjax: they'd be more like a lullaby ; P I think you should go and make a UU team : ) 9/7/08- top 20 on Standard, Suspect, and UU ladders woot =-) 12/20/08- 1 on suspect (yeah i know so what)

Jun 30th, 2008, 5:09:57 AM	#13
SirHandsome6 Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 17	i played against him with this team quite a few times in the last few days and one of the teams ive been using and most often played him with happens to be very similar, and i'd say that the lead aerodactyl is very key because it lets him get a head start on other offensive teams while screwing others over with taunt. its undeniable that theres a deoxys weakness but you have to remember that deoxys cant really switch into a hard hitting team, and if you have your own shadow ball deoxys since most people dont run max speed, or something else to revenge opposing deoxys then you're golden. like astral, i also ran a max speed deoxys with shadow ball for a while for the sole purpose of killing other deoxys on my offensive team (unfortunately i always lost the speed tie with astral - he's the only other ive played running max speed so it caught me by surprise), but in the end i found that certain choice scarfers caused my glass cannons even more trouble than deoxys and changed it up deoxys isn't just the bane of offensive teams, he's also one of their greatest gifts, because if you utilize him he lets you kill off annoying random choice scarfers that can otherwise stop you in your tracks when your resistance happens to be dead. Last edited by SirHandsome6; Jun 30th, 2008 at 5:13:59 AM.

Jun 30th, 2008, 11:42:31 AM	#16
Mystica Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 754	I had a feeling Astral Projection was husk... thanks for telling me jerk! :P This team looks like its pretty hard to use, and needs alot of prediction to win. Anyway great job using Aerodactyl, i used the exact same version (RS flinch is awesome lol) in my NoSwitch team, and it prevented everysingle StealthRocker/Status-er they threw at me. So after you taunt a bronzong I guess you switch to Gyarados? I guess shadow ball is better than pyschic on deo-e, never really thought of that. I always loved OHKOing things that didn't resist with Psychoboost lol. I really think that Lucario should have Crunch. Bullet punch is only for gengar right? Wouldn't you rather have Celebi/Dusknoir/Cress killed? I would think Cresselia gives you alot of problems. Even maybe the rare CM versions >.<. The only thing I don't like about CBAdamantChomp is that it is so easily revenge killed, since everything 304+ outspeeds it and kills it. Have you tried the YacheSD version for this team? anyway, love the team. i made a similar version with scarftran and a gengar lead. __________________ i'm kill dragons

Jun 29th, 2008, 7:04:36 PM	#1
husk Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 1,981	Team Astral Projection (Ranked #1) AstralProjection Overview: Intro: It has been discussed, ever since the introduction of Deoxys-s to the ou tier, that purely offensive teams can not be very effective. This is apparently supported by the overall metagame shifting to bulky sweepers and generally bulky teams. "Astral Projection" has been very successful for me. I have had this team for 5 days now. On the first day this team allowed me to attain a ranking of 2nd on the Shoddy Battle OU ladder with a rating of 1707. The next day it was able to reach first (and was passed shortly after). Finally, on the fourth day team Astral Projection was able to attain a more lasting first place with a rating of 1740. Game Plan: This team is built around the basic offensive concept of using high powered sweepers to overwhelm the opposition. The success of this team, I believe, lies in the way this is executed. Aero leading usually puts the team on the offensive from the start of the match. From there it is essentially up to me and how I play. This team has immense potential and it's really up to the user whether or not it gets utilized. Each of the pokemon bring their own strengths and resistances to the table and through solid play I believe this team is unbeatable. That is not to say that this team can not lose horribly. In fact, this team has a very good chance of doing so if your opponent plays better than you. Through the "Team Work" section under each of the pokemon I will attempt to explain how I feel is the best way to play each pokemon in respect to individual situations. In Depth: @ Focus Sash Ability: Pressure EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk) - Stealth Rock - Taunt - Rock Slide - Earthquake Description: Aero is a great lead. He usually gets off a quick SR and can often cripple leading pokes such as mence/gyara/gar/azelf. Slower leads are generally there to SR so he'll taunt them to keep the rocks off. I had Stone Edge over Rock Slide and Ice Fang over Earthquake but I found that I missed far too often with both for them to be useful. I also realized I had a metagross problem so the more ground attacks, the better. EVs: Jolly and 252 is a bit paranoid as crobat, jolteon, and other aero are usually not seen around but I can't think of anywhere better to put the EVs. I wouldn't change it to adamant (even though the extra damage would push intimidated rockslide to a 2hko instead of a 3hko on mence and gyara) as outspeeding leading azelf is very important as it is rather challenging for this team to defeat. Team Work: This team doesn't really have a problem with SR as I only have two pokemon who are weak to it one of which leads. Aero's job is to make sure the rocks stay off the field until gyara can have his run. Gyara needs all of his health to properly sodomize my opponent's team. Aero usually lures out pokemon such as bronzong and hippowdon who after a taunt can not do much to gyara so I get a free DD. When facing a fast lead I tend to attack since they usually stick around to fight as well. Often Azelf/Mence/Gyara/Weavile leads stick around and I can get a quick ko or weaken them. Then I get out SR as quickly as I can. Taunting celebi or vaporeon is very important for this team as gyara can easily dispose of either if they are weakened or can not use their recovery. @ Life Orb Ability: Intimidate EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Spd Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Dragon Dance - Earthquake - Ice Fang - Waterfall Description: The set is fairly self explanitory. After a DD few things can stand up to this. This 2hkos celebi and with SR down often ohkos Starmie. Cresselia is 2 or 3hkoed and so is skarmory. If this gets a DD in my opponent generally loses at least one very valuable member of their defensive core which is very important as most of those pokemon are used to counter multiple threats. EVs: Max attack as this hits most pokemon at least neutral so getting the most out of the few turns it is in play is very important. 176 speed gets Gyara to 242 speed which lets you out speed Starmie/Azelf/Raikou after a DD. I just put the rest into HP and it turns out it is a very good number to use with life orb as after KOing people's Celebis and Starmies they sometimes send out ScarfChomp and his outrages just barely fail to ko gyara while gyara ohkos him (and promptly dies to LO recoil). Team Work: Gyara usually struts his stuff early game by easily switching into common aero counters. Since this gyara is designed to take out the pokemon that believe they can counter it, it is often the target of scarfed pokemon aiming to revenge kill it. Obviously those revenge killers are using an electric attack so with a little prediction you can bring in Garchomp to wreck further havoc. Sometimes it is beneficial to forgo that prediction as giving Garchomp a free turn my seal the game for you regardless of what happens to Gyara. Basically, use your head. @ Life Orb Ability: Levitate EVs: 40 Atk/252 Spd/216 SAtk Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk) - Shadow Ball - Explosion - Focus Blast - Hypnosis Description: Shadow Ball/Focus Blast hit everything neutrally and Hypnosis+Explosion basically guarantees that Gengar will take two pokemon out of the match. LO moves a lot of 3hkos to 2hkos which is extremely important for Gengar as with a little prediction you may manage to die from 10 turns of LO recoil rather than your opponent's attacks. EVs: 40 attack allows gengar to make good use of Explosion (and ohko bliss all the time). Max speed is to beat infernape and tie/beat other gengar. The Special Attack should not be placed anywhere else either as Gengar hits a lot of things neutral and needs as much brute force as possible. Team Work: Being immune to three types is great. Along with it's revenge killing capabilities it helps with water types and bulky psychics. My opponents generally end up sacrificing their tyranitar to this while trying to wear gar down with stream+lo damage. I try to keep Gengar alive as he is a monster late game and I also do not have something to take ground attacks as Gyara and Aero generally die early. @ Choice Band Ability: Sand Veil EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Earthquake - Dragon Claw - Fire Fang - Outrage Description: This thing is absolutely amazing. There really isn't much this doesn't straight up 2hko with sr down so if my opponent switches I should net a KO unless I predict incorrectly. EVs: Adamant over Jolly for the power to 2hko cresselia and suicune when sr is down. I've run into a few problems with timid cm jirachi but my other members should be able to handle it (namely Aero). The rest is obvious. Team Work: Garchomp can usually come in on Zapdos and since they usually stick around to prevent me from possibly SD'ing up for free I get a quick KO on a very dangerous pokemon. Garchomp is mainly used to power past very bulky pokemon like: Cresselia, Dusknoir, Celebi, Suicune, etc. These pokemon generally do not have the offense to ohko Garchomp but their team for some reason relies on them to take it out so that when they are quickly 2hkoed it becomes far easier to sweep them with gengar/lucario. Choiced Ice Attacks and regular Ice Shards aimed at this should be directed to Lucario who makes very good use of free turns. @ Life Orb Ability: Inner Focus EVs: 4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk) - Close Combat - Swords Dance - Bullet Punch - Extremespeed Description: Lucario tears stuff up with or without SDing. Bullet Punch is used instead of Crunch as Dusknoir, Celebi, and Cresselia are usually overwhelmed by the offense on this team while opposing Gengars and Mismagius' are a very serious threat. LO is required as a SD'ed bullet punch doesn't ohko gengar otherwise. EVs: Adamant is, again, the nature of choice as I have two priority moves to make up for the lack of speed. The only time I regret not having jolly is against full health, max speed, jolly LO Mamo which doesn't happen too often and I have other ways around it anyway. Team Work: My team can wear down the opponent's team very easily so Lucario is able to quickly ping off pokemon even without an SD. Should the opportunity/need arise Lucario can SD and sweep just as well as Gyara and Gengar. Lucario resists ghost and ice attacks aimed at gengar and garchomp respectively and so he has many opportunities to SD or get in free shots on the opponent's team. I usually end up revealing this early game and then not using it until late game. Many teams fear a timely Lucario switch so they end up playing far more conservatively after he has been revealed. @ Life Orb Ability: Pressure EVs: 4 Atk/252 Spd/252 SAtk Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef) - Ice Beam - Thunderbolt - Superpower - Shadow Ball Description: Shadow Ball is placed over Psychic and Recover as I have trouble with Psychic types. Shadow Ball also helps me revenge kill nonscarfed Gar. EVs: Max Speed is absolutely required to revenge kill stuff and defend myself against other Deoxys-s. Max SpAtk is standard and I don't really mind not being able to ohko bliss/heatran as I am rarely in a position where it would even matter whether or not I could. Team Work: Cleans up whatever mess there is late game. I'm often in situations where Life Orb puts me on a time limit and so I'm thinking "5 turns to beat 4 pokemon" and often deoxys-s is able to pull it off. This thing is the only reason Gyarados doesn't sweep me every time it comes out and it is my easy way out on choiced chomps who try to grab a quick kill by outraging. This can easily come into STAB psychics. Threat List: Tyranitar - Garchomp, Lucario, and Deoxys-S's revenge killing abilities. Gyarados - Deoxys-S can stop it if it gets a DD. I usually try to pressure it so that it doesn't. Infernape - Gengar, and Aero can both switch in relatively easily and ohko depending on what move I believe it'll use. Azelf - Deoxys-S can switch in on any of it's moves once and Lucario can revenge kill it from 50%. Rhyperior - All of my pokemon can hit it hard. Electivire - I've only got 1 electric move on the team and it comes from a pokemon is faster than electivire even after the motor drive boost. This isn't really threatening otherwise. Heracross - Gengar and Gyara. Garchomp can help too in a pinch. Salamence - Doesn't really have a chance to switch in with SR getting down early and my pokes hitting so hard. Dexoys-s can revenge kill. Togekiss - SR prevents it from switching in and out too much and Aero has RS, Gyara has IF, Garchomp can ohko with Outrage. It doesn't like Lucario's CC and Deoxy's IB/tbolt either. Gengar - Aero can 2hko and doesn't really mind dying or being put to sleep. Deoxys-S can revenge kill and my own Gengar ties with the fastest ones. Garchomp - A mix of hitting it hard with whatever is out and revenge killing with deoxys-s. Raikou - This guy is trouble. If aero is out then I have to handle him with Lucario's ES and Deoxys-S's Superpower. Lucario - Gengar can take fighting attacks, Garchomp can take pretty much anything it throws once and Deoxys-S can revenge kill. Tauros - Gengar for normal and ground attacks. The other attacks aren't so threatening. So Gyara/Chomp/Aero/Dexoys can handle them. Starmie - Deoxys-S, Gengar at full health, Lucario if its weak. Though usually I never have to deal with it as it comes into DD'ed Gyara and dies. Weavile - Lucario mainly. Sr being down helps here. Dugtrio - Counter?? Alakazam - Deoxys-S PorygonZ - These are usually scarfed and I basically get free play time with my sweepers whenever it comes out. Medicham - Never seen one but I'd guess a combination of gyara and gengar. Staraptor - Gengar+Aero+Gyara+Deoxys-s Slowbro - This usually comes in on Garchomp and gets 2hkoed. Gengar can also deal with it. Machamp - Rather troublesome. Gengar usually has to explode or hypnotize this. Jolteon - I usually see these as leads and so I either win the speed war and my opponent is pissed or I live because of sash and get the ko anyway. Aerodactyl - SR+Lucario/Deoxys-S Snorlax - Too slow to do anything. Everything minus Aero (who can taunt it's curses) can 2hko with SR down. Zapdos - Garchomp usually takes this out. SR is useful in beating this as gengar and lucario can suddenly 2hko them and Gyara can ohko after a DD. Blissey - Everything has a plan to beat blissey. Suicune - Garchomp 2hkos with outrage. Gyara can usually set up on it. Sceptile - No idea. Gengar and Deoxys-S Breloom - Breloom has never done anything against this team. Slaking - Never seen one but the free turns it gives are appreciated. Tangrowth - Usually comes out to meet Aero, gets taunted and eventually gives me an easy switch to Gar. Ninjask - Aero taunts then slides. With SR down after it runs the first time it usually can't do anything. Metagross - Pretty dangerous. Everything can "revenge kill" Heatran - Scarfed versions give me free turns while rest/talk versions get dominated by pretty much all of my pokemon. Celebi - Very annoying if played correctly. Usually my opponents waste it trying to stop gyara. Jirachi - Timid ones with HP Ice are very troublesome but otherwise Garchomp and Lucario can handle them fine. Deoxys-S - Lucario can take it out from about 70% if it has LO. Most other deoxys-s's can't ohko mine and even if they can they are usually slower. Conclusion: This was mainly done to have solid proof that offensive teams are just as effective as they were before. If you even skim over the counters section you'll see that most of my "counters" involved prediction and/or revenge killing which is still a viable way to play pokemon as shown by the success of this team. I urge all of you to play with offensive teams. If I forgot something that would be useful just mention it and I'll edit this post. Rate My Team! ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks to Smogon for the sprites at the top and the pictures are thanks to Aragonbird. Last edited by husk; Jul 1st, 2008 at 12:10:06 AM.

Jun 29th, 2008, 7:35:40 PM	#4
Taylor cry in training, laugh in battle... Moderator Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: England Posts: 2,689	This was an interesting read, husk. Glad to see you remain an established successor with the offensive style. I doubt the logic in removing any members from your party, and therefore won't bother. I can ackowledge why you're using Dragon Claw on Garchomp (it is, afterall, the standard these days), but I recommend you replace it for Stone Edge. I prefer the ability to OHKO Zapdos and Gyarados (Intimidate not included), and to a lesser extent, Togekiss. Further, the Rock-type and Ground-type paired together is never a forgotten tool. I'm lead to believe Outrage fails to OHKO Bold Zapdos, and therefore the OHKO with Stone Edge is much more benificial. Additionally, you aren't locked into Outrage so early in the game. Not that crucial, though.

Jun 29th, 2008, 9:00:22 PM	#5
blasphemy1 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: In the Hall of the Goblin King Posts: 2,163	Not trying to rehash previous posts but yes Stone Edge should replace Dragon Claw for Gyarados, Zapdos, and even Cloyster, who usually walls BandChomp. Finally, Fire Blast does more to Skarmory than Fire Fang even with the Band, so maybe use Fire Blast instead.

Jun 29th, 2008, 9:17:04 PM	#6
Kietharr Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 627	Timid seems a bit off on explosion gengar, imo switch it to hasty or something, any +spe/-def or sp. def nature would work. It's not like gengar is really going to be taking any hits and extra attack couldn't hurt him.

Jun 30th, 2008, 11:03:20 AM	#14
Lee Dico tibi verum, libertas optima rerum Moderator Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Newcastle, UK Posts: 2,623	Fantastic team, husk and a model RMT. I especially like the way you've but in a rarely seen BL and made him look at right at home amongst the others. I can definatley see Aero getting you off on the right foot more often than not. And four Life Orbs is either insanity or genious! You have most threats covered well which is an accomplishment in itself in such an offensive team but I can't help but worry about Metagross. You eluded to it in your threat list, but it's Agilagross that I'm especially worried about. He can set up without suffering too much damage against Deoxys or 2/4 of Garchomps moves. Everyone is OHKO'd by Meteor Mash/Thunderpunch/Earthquake with the exception of Garchomp who takes 70.67% - 82.96% from LO Meteor Mash. Obviously, if you replaced anything to cover that flaw then another weakness would just open up in it's place...Agilagross is rare enough for you to get by and you may be able to play around him and let him weaken himself with LO to the point where Deoxys can finish him off. It's not a huge concern, I was just fishing for weaknesses. ;P

Jun 30th, 2008, 11:14:19 AM	#15
.Baris. Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 91	oh husk,you are astral ? o.O xD i see a big cm lucario weak because they are timid and have almost hp ice and you`re garchomp is adamant which is slower then cm lucario.I dont know why you play boom ggar,you havent a pkmn which benefit if you boom bliss.In one of our battle`s you became big problems with reflect cress :/

Jun 30th, 2008, 12:01:01 PM	#17
M Dragon The north wind Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 142	Another gyarados or gengar can also give you some problems, as you can only revenge kill them with Deoxys-e. Gyarados with Stone Edge and a DD can beat all your team except Deoxys-E (outspeeds gyara), and Deoxys-E doesn't like Waterfalls. Gengar can also be problematic, specially a LO Gengar with Thunderbolt. Deoxys-E can revenge kill it, but it cannot switch Great team, and it works very well, but needs some prediction: covers most threats without losing offensive power, and I like your Aerodactyl: it prevent an early stealth rock or hypnosis, and puts its own stealth.

Jun 30th, 2008, 1:18:48 PM	#18
HECTORtu matty is gay for me! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Puerto Rico 8) Posts: 252	M Dragon, in case you didn't notice, the whole point of this team is to win by revenge killing and setting up huge offensive threats. He can manage to let one of his pokes die, because the next one is just a big a threat. The only concerns I have are Agiligross, which has been mentioned already by Lee, and ScarfTimidGar as rare as it is. It outspeeds everything on your team and everything gets OHKOd by the Shadow Ball/ Focus Blast/ HP Ice/ Tbolt set. Only way you can deal with it is switching in and out constantly and eventually getting the Bullet Punch off. Very good team nonetheless. Also I do like Stone Edge mroe than Ice Fang on Gyarados, since it prevents other Gyaras from stopping your fun, but that is entirely up to you. __________________ Highest rank on OU ladder: #1 Highest rank on Uber Ladder: #3 Jumpman16: Seriously stfu in the loki stonecold battle if you're not hec

Jun 30th, 2008, 1:37:44 PM	#19
Pyong Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 127	Replacing a pokémon from this team seens very dangerous, but let me try: Why not a bulky CB metagross over garchomp? He can take deoxys s with pursuit, isn't OHKOed by agilitygross EQ (and has a nice chance of OHKO the oposing metagross with quake). He also counters weavile (CB variations 2HKO your entire team except gyarados, but without being the bulky variation, he can't switch forever). Anyway, amazing team, but it doesn't prove that deoxys-s do not dominate offensive teams. Edit: another idea for the team is replacing aerodactyl with azelf. the moveset i sugest is: taunt/stealth rock/psychic/explosion with focus sash. With such a offensive, you can make good use of the "gap" created by the explosion (who will hopefully take out a important pokémon). __________________ Last edited by Pyong; Jun 30th, 2008 at 1:43:33 PM.

Jun 30th, 2008, 1:46:05 PM	#20
Twist of Fate Broken Dreams Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 939	Theoretically, on paper, any form of Gengar gives him huge problems, especially ScarfGar. I think Bullet Punch is much more useful for this team. Cresselia can easily be taken care of by Gyarados (a DD Waterfall does ~48%, an easy 2HKO with rocks up) and Gengar if need be. Celebi is also handled by Gyarados (Ice Fang does ~65% to the standard), and Gengar if Gyarados fails. For this reason, Ice Fang is also the better option on Gyarados as opposed to Stone Edge. Deoxys-S can always revenge kill Gyarados anyway (I think it outspeeds even the 184 EV speed version after 2 DD). Anyway, I've played this team multiple times, probably more than any of you lol, and its basically a crapshoot. Its success lies in the switches husk makes as something dies. With no real defensive capabilities, it all comes down to when he chooses to stat up versus switch-in a straight-up attacker. Not much can be changed around (nor should anything) because in any given match, this team can win. __________________ viva la vida: bg ToF: lol ToF: because i 6-0'd you? viva la vida: haha viva la vida: you had a team advantage with such a crap team

Jun 30th, 2008, 3:24:55 PM	#21
Scruffy Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Against the odds Posts: 2,402	Good read, but I'm not sure you are able to use 4 Life Orbs on a team... What about item clause? __________________ FC: 3738-7116-1162 Proud Winner of the latest [Wi-Fi Tournament]: Exploring new UU! - 5-0 Highest Rank on the UU Ladder: #6 To Forgive: a suspensful short story I wrote a long time ago. I had a lot of fun writing it, and I hope the people that take the time to read it enjoy it too

Jun 30th, 2008, 3:31:10 PM	#22
stormtrooper Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: on a chocobo Posts: 262	no item clause on shoddy great team husk life orb is a good item __________________ stormtrooper on shoddy http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/p.../pokemon-1.jpg

Jun 30th, 2008, 8:11:05 PM	#24
Danyul Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: manhattan Posts: 666	Awesome team. It didn't take long for about 80% of everyone on Shoddy to start using it lol, like what happened with Obi's stall team. In my opinion the biggest problem is opposing Deoxys-S's. Against most dangerous pokemon, you can just revenge kill them with one of your very fast pokemon, but since Deoxys-S outspeeds everything except maybe your own Deoxys, I think you'll have alot of trouble manuevering around him, considering he can OHKO every member of the team. I guess Aerodactyl's Focus Sash and Lucario's Extremespeed are pretty good insurance, especially if Deoxys has a Life Orb, but I still think a well played Deoxys-S is going to be a major pain. I don't really see too much you can do about it either. Yache on Chomp could help, and might just be better than CB in general, but other than that I think Deoxys-S just gives offensive teams like this alot of trouble regardless. But aside from Deoxys-S, I've found this team to be almost unstoppable, and it shows that offense is not dead. Now time to make a counter team to use on the ladder lol. Edit: just as an aside, I started using a CBMetagross with Pursuit and a Deoxys-S of my own on my ladder team, and it's pretty much a guaranteed win against this team if you can lure out Deoxys-S. Of course, Pursuit Metagross isn't exactly a common threat, but it was interesting how easy it was to win once Deoxys-S was taken out, because Expert Belt Deoxys just kills everything else so easily. I guess if you were actually really worried about it you could swap Lucario for a Metagross, but he isn't really as threatening so he probably wouldn't be as effective. Last edited by Danyul; Jul 1st, 2008 at 3:14:37 AM.

Jun 30th, 2008, 9:05:17 PM	#25
nitnit Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 84	I love this team. It shows how the over powered offensive OU threats dominate the metagame when used correctly. It seems we have returned to the original theory that D/P is all about speed and power. Still, major props for revealing this team, doing so will actually shift the metagame since people will try to make their own copies or variations of the team. However, without Husk's skill they will ultimately fail (similar to obi's stall team, as partially stated earlier) Sportfreak - Off subject - Arin (or eternal on marrifail, god those were dark days in my life, this is confirmed by his AIM address) is one of the cockiest individuals I have ever met in my entire life. Still a good guy though.