Tangrowth (Analysis)

kc4444 said:

For some of the parts, you refer to the American and Japanese translation of Ferrothorn/Nattorei. You should change the Nattorei to Ferrothorn.

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VentusVictory said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even though you base your analysis on his Dream World ability, don't you still need to have a [Dream World] section of the analysis. It just needs to state whether or not the DW ability is legit or not, and then that its uses are discussed elsewhere in the analysis.

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Contributions & Corrections Analysis Formatting Guide said:

This section should only be used if the Dream World ability hasn't been released, because if it has then it may be included in the Pokemon's sets.

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Bloo said:

Other than that, everything here looks good to go. Good job!

QC APPROVED (2/3)

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PK Gaming said:

No, Tangela is a bad subseeder. Lack 101 subs, lack of leftovers recovery and its even more outclassed by Whimisicott / Breloom. I'm on the fence about the subseeder set too, but before you get rid of it you should remove any mention of Tangela.

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Honko said:

Would a Specially Defensive spread be viable? Tangrowth can already tank physical hits like a pro without investing much in Def, and adding some SpD would stop him from being OHKOed by random HP Fires.

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Noble Cactus said:

I'm wondering about this too. Does a more even spread leaning torwards Physical Defense give Tangrowth better survival in general, seeing as even weaker Fire and Ice moves rape him?

Also, is Knock Off viable on the Physical Tank set? I know Sleep Powder/Leech Seed are generally more useful to a team as a whole (and will cause some frustration), but coming in on a sweeper's move you know Tangrowth can take and eliminating their Life Orb (or whatever) can knock them down a notch. This is just me theorymonning, though, since I haven't tried out Mr. Vines this gen. Regeneration sounds like a great boon to him.

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Bad Ass said:

I think SubSeed should be removed. Tangrowth's main use is as a pivot -- coming in, absorbing an attack, sleeping, paralyzing, or Leech Seeding something, and switching out, which means that while they have a Paralyzed, Sleeping, or Leech Seeded Pokemon, they have done almost no damage in return. SubSeeding isn't a great strategy in this metagame, and there are Pokemon that do it better, such as Chlorophyll Venusaur or Shaymin.

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Benlisted said:

QC approval from: PK Gaming, Bloo, Bad Ass

Tangrowth Dex

[Overview]
<p>Though a firm UU last Generation, with the onset of BW Tangrowth received a very useful toy with the onset of BW with in Regenerator as its Dream World ability. With higher physical bulk than Forretress or Skarmory, he can readily put this newfound ability to use as an often overlooked physical tank. The advent of Drought Ninetales and Growth becoming a Swords Dance and Nasty Plot combined under sun also makes Tangrowth a more viable Chlorophyll abuser than ever before. AltThough the other OU Grass types offer him some stiff competition due to his lacklustre Speed and Special Defense, he has a drastically better physical movepool than all of them, as well as the excellent abilities in Regenerator and Chorophyll as his ability, providing him with a definite niche in the new metagame.</p>

[SET]
name: Physical Tank
move 1: Sleep Powder
move 2: Power Whip / Giga Drain
move 3: Hidden Power Ice / Earthquake
move 4: Leech Seed
ability: Regenerator
nature: Relaxed
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Tangrowth’s defensive bulk is very impressive, - here reaching 404 HP and 383 Def, - and this set abuses his regenerative capabilities regeneration to keep him around for as long as possible. Sleep Powder is an essential to deal with a possible counter or problem pokemon check, and under the new mechanics, the sleep count resets when switched out, making it more difficult for whatever is hit to wake up this can be a huge blow to would-be counters.</p>

<p>Power Whip is Tangrowth’s strongest reliable STAB option, and which still hits Rock-types hard under Sandstorm. Giga Drain can, however, be useful for additional healing, or if you need to hit something hard from the special side. Earthquake hits Fire-types resistant to Grass, whereas Hidden Power Ice offers you a solution to hits Dragons and fellow Grass-typeses who resist your STAB too. Leech Seed is preferred in the last slot for the extra healing and residual damage which Tangrowth greatly appreciates.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>As an alternative STAB attack, Leaf Storm can be used due to its great power and the fact that while abusing Regeneration Tangrowth will be switching out a lot. Stun Spore, Knock Off and Toxic are alternative support options, with Stun Spore being the most attractive due to the number of fast and powerful sweepers in the current metagame, and significantly, being able to paralyse Excadrill who may try to setup on you.</p>

<p>In terms of coverage attacks, if using only one non-STAB attack Hidden Power Ice is probably the best choice, allowing you hit the numerous OU Dragons as well as Grass-types immune to Leech Seed. It still leaves you walled by Fire-types, but their increased frequent use of Balloon and dual typing means that sometimes often Earthquake will be worthless against them anyway, unless you can repeatedly predict their switches. You can run both Hidden Power Ice and Earthquake, however, and drop Leech Seed to allow for for better coverage but less healing, depending on your other pPokemons' needs. If your team can deal with Dragons, Hidden Power Fire is a possibility over Ice to prevent Ferrothorn coming in on this set easily. Focus Blast offers a way to hit Balloon Heatran along with being able to decimate Tyranitar, and if going physical or avoiding poor accuracy Brick Break can take its place. However, Focus Blast fails to 2HKO standard Ferrothorn, Balloon Heatran can be dealt with by using Sleep Powder or by hitting it as it switches in, and Tyranitar takes a large hit from STAB Power Whip, making a Fighting move generally inferior to the other options.</p>

<p>Relaxed is the nature of choice since his speed is awful anyway, and the only thing of note he misses out on outpacing is Conkeldurr, though 24 EVs can be moved from Def to Speed to remedy this. When using a set attacking from only one side of the attacking spectrum, altering his nature to either Impish or Bold would of course be a better option. If not dropping his speed with Relaxed, Tangrowth’s EVs can be adjusted to allow him to outspeed 0 Speed Jellicent, Swampert and Blissey with an alternative spread of 252HP/172Def/84Spe. Doing this is possible with Relaxed but requires a total of 140 EVs in Speed, making it inadvisable. If using Hidden Power Ice, remember to move 4 EVs from Def to Spe to counteract the IV drop if trying to outspeed anything.<p>

[SET]
name: Sun Sweeper
move 1: Power Whip
move 2: Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Earthquake / Rock Slide
move 4: Growth / Sleep Powder
nature: Naughty
item: Life Orb
evs: 252Atk / 252Spe / 4SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Although not the fastest Chlorophyll abuser, Tangrowth holds the second highest combined attack stats of any with this ability, as well as significant bulk even without any investment. Power Whip is present as obligatory STAB, being the prime choice here due to its power, and due to the hard hit on and also hitting Tyranitar, who always gives sun teams issues, for excellent damage. Hidden Power Fire is a great choice in sun, netting you OHKOs on most Grass-types even without a +2. Earthquake gives powerful coverage for most Fires, but Rock Slide can be used instead, still hitting Fire-types hard and Heatran neutrally, but allowing for a super effective hit on the Dragon/Flying types, all of whom would wall this set otherwise. Growth is preferred on a sun sweeper set, as it now boosts both attack stats two stages when used in sunlight, though Sleep pPowder is still viable.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The EV spread given allows you to just hit the Speed benchmark of 396 in sun when using a 30 Spe IV for HP Fire. However, switching to a Naive nature will allow you to reach a perhaps more beneficial mark instead, beating, notably, +1 Blaziken, Heatran and Gyarados. 240 Spe is the required EV investment to beat these threats with Jolly Naive and Hp Fire, letting you add a little more to SpAtk. The nature is -SpD as without any HP investment it barely makes a difference to his awful special bulk, and to enable more effective mixed sweeping without compromising his great physical bulk.</p>

<p>Even with maxed out speed, however, Tangrowth cannot outpace a lot of scarfers, meaning that their elimination is often necessary for him to perform a sweep. A faster Chlorophyll abuser can be used for this role, leaving Tangrowth to clean up with Growth, with possibilities good options being Sawsbuck, Venusaur, or Shiftry. Your own fast Scarfer does similarly well, and Dragon types fare particularly well in sun due to the boost their Fire attacks receive. Naturally, Wobbuffet also does this job extremely well.</p>

[Other Options]
<p>Stun Spore and Knock Off are viable on any defensive set, respectively crippling faster switch-ins Don't know if you can see, but a hyphen needs to be added. Trust me that it is blue or threats, and removing Leftovers recovery. Toxic is less desirable due to Tangrowth’s other moves being of rarer distribution and thus more useful to most teams, but is still usable. Sleep Powder is the main reason for these moves being less viable, as it being able to remove one pokemon from the match almost entirely is often more useful. Amnesia is the final support option that can be utilised, boosting Tamgrowth's Special Defence from awful to acceptable levels. However, on the Defensive set where it is of use, moveslots are sparse and other coverage or status moves will often prove far more valuable than the extra special bulk would. Synthesis may have been useful on defensive Tangrowth for added recovery, were it not for it being illegal with Regenerator. Using it with a sun related ability is the only possible option, and is quite viable due to the boosted recovery it offers. Rest and Sleep Talk allows Tangrowth to function as a Sleep Absorber, but the lack of two moveslots and inability to control Sleep Powder's use is a huge downfall.</p>

<p> Most viable attacking moves have been mentioned, aside from Nature Power (mimicking Earthquake in Wifi battles) to replace Earthquake wherever it is used, as it has much greater PP. Unfortunately, is technically a status move and as such can be Taunted, making Earthquake the superior choice unless you desperately need the extra PP. Tangrowth having access to such a huge array of coverage moves makes a Choice Band set seem attractive, but his appallingly low speed means his switch-in Hyphen again options are extremely limited and he can be revenged very easily. Similarly, a Swords Dance set is possible, but his speed cripples stops any use for this besides some wallbreaking, where it is outclassed.</p>

<p>SubSeeding is a possible direction to take Tangrowth in, as with practically every other Grass type, and given his ability to regenerate health for another Sub upon switching out, he initially seems a prime candidate. However, his awful Speed and Special Defence let him down despite his physical bulk and 101 Substitutes, meaning Shaymin for example often does the job better. In general Tangrowth sees better use as a defensive pivot, able to repeatedly and easily switch in thanks to his Regenerator ability. If you do choose to run a SubSeed set, Giga Drain is the attack of choice for added healing whilst Hidden Power Fire lets you deal with Ferrothorn - and as per the other sets Sleep Powder can deal with a single other counter, or another support option could be used.</p>

<p>On sun teams Wide Lens can be utilised if you are using several imperfect accuracy moves, which may occur with the Sun Sweeper set, but the power drop is significant unless running Growth to make up for it. SolarBeam is also viable on sun sets due to its sheer power, but the surprise factor the first time you use it will often turn against you as Tyranitars begin switching into your STAB and locking you into a 60BP move charge-up turn It is only 60 BP in Hail, as of Gen III. It also restricts you severely in the role of countering Tyranitar and/or Politoed that Tangrowth can otherwise perform quite well, which is normally a crucial one for a sun team.</p>

[Checks and Counters]
<p>Tangrowth, while incredibly bulky on the physical side, can be dealt a lot of damage by even strong neutral attacks to his weak special side. Anything specially powerful that outspeeds and is able to take most of its attacks without concern can easily switch in and threaten to KO him, with some minor prediction necessary in order to get in safely. However, due to Regenerator, Tangrowth can easily switch out when a counter comes in to wear them down with entry hazards and other damage, while remaining at good health itself, which often means tricky prediction is required to deal with him effectively.</p>

<p>Fellow Grass-types counter him relatively well - Virizion earns a special mention for its resistance to Tangrowth’s STAB, immunity to Leech Seed and Special Defence high enough to shrug off super effective Hidden Powers while setting up Calm Minds. To a lesser extent, Celebi or Breloom can set up on Tangrowth too, but and are able to shrug off or avoid any status Tangrowth may throw their way too with Natural Cure or Toxic Orb. Ferrothorn poses severe problems unless HP Fire is being run due to being immune to almost all the residual damage Tangrowth likes to exploit and being able to use Tangrowth to setup entry hazards against Tangrowth.</p>

<p> Any special Fire-type can very easily eliminate Tangrowth, especially if they run Balloon to avoid Earthquake. Heatran in particular is a potent threat due to easily surviving unboosted Focus Blasts, as is Chandelure for being immune to them, and both resist Grass and are immune to Fire attacks. Even worse, however, is Volcarona, who resists Grass, Ice, Fighting, and is neutral to Hidden Power Fire and Earthquake, whilst packing two STABs which can OHKO Tangrowth, and Butterfly Dance to threaten the rest of your team.</p>

<p>Set specific cCounters for the Sun Sweeper include any +Speed Scarfer with 85 or higher base Speed, and a SE special move. Notably Fire Fang ScarfChomp cannot manage an OHKO due to Tangrowth’s natural physical bulk, though Hidden Power Ice Scarf Latios/Latias counter him very well. Faster Chlorophyllers with Hidden Power Fire or Ice serve excellently as well, as long as they can get in safely. Politoed and Tyranitar often carry Ice Beam or Flamethrower respectively, and if able to switch into Tangrowth can take away his speed boost. Both have higher base Speed than Tangrowth, and can safely OHKO if they manage to switch in, but only if enough speed has been invested to avoid a possibly Naive Tangrowth from OHKOing the valuable weather setters first.</p>

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Athenodoros said:

GPing now.

Nice.

And Athen or Atheno is fine. Whatever you want.

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• stay consistent with "it" and "he".
• don't randomly abbreviate stuff like stats and moves in a write-up.
• setup is a noun, set-up is an adjective, set up is a verb.
• use "you" to refer to the reader, not the Pokemon.