Ice Arceus (AF 3/3)

Ice Arceus

[Overview]

<p>Returning from the desolate wastelands of afar, Arceus shows his frigid side, his heart as cold as the Icicle Plate he bears. The deity of legend appears in his frosty guise to lay ruin to all that incur his divine wrath. In perhaps the most offensively-inclined forme of them all, Ice Arceus takes no prisoners in the kill-or-be-killed world of Ubers. Unless your body is as solid as steel or your soul is as searing as the sun, you may never again feel the warmth of a new day.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment / Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Fire Blast / Focus Blast / Recover
item: Icicle Plate
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is probably the best that Ice Arceus can manage. If you can get a Calm Mind boost and emerge more or less unscathed, you can reap the sweet rewards of having Ice-type STAB. Judgment and Ice Beam are both valid options as the main attacking move. Judgment is the standard for specially-based Arceus, with 100 Base Power, 100% accuracy, and 16 PP. Ice Beam has the same accuracy and PP, but it sacrifices a mere 5 Base Power for the added 10% chance to freeze outside of strong sunlight. The difference is often negligible, and the choice depends on whether you are more comfortable increasing the chance of key KOs or banking on a rare freeze. Thunder is mostly for damaging opposing Kyogre, but it's also useful against Ho-Oh if it's raining. Fire Blast and Focus Blast are for hitting Steel-types, the choice between the two depending mostly on how likely there will be strong sunlight. Recover can also be useful for healing off damage from entry hazards and enemies' attacks, making it easier to switch in multiple times.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Being a mono Ice-type is quite the burden for a setup sweeper such as Ice Arceus. Unfortunately, Ice Arceus's resistance to Ice-type attacks, immunity to Hail damage, and inability to be frozen are completely overshadowed by weaknesses to Rock-, Fighting-, Fire-, and Steel-type attacks and severe vulnerability to entry hazards. All is not bad, however. The Ice-type has excellent coverage in the Uber tier, hitting Dragon-, Ground-, Flying-, and Grass-types for super effective damage. Ice Arceus generally fares better as a late-game sweeper than as a boosting tank because of the inability to switch into resisted moves. The EVs allow Arceus to hit as hard as possible while Speed tying with other offensive Arceus, but a Modest nature can be also used for that extra touch of power. With a Modest nature, Ice Arceus misses out on outspeeding Lugia and Speed tying with other Arceus, though Lugia fears Ice-type attacks and Ice Arceus loses to many common Arceus formes anyway.</p>

<p>Ice Arceus can fit into both sun teams and rain teams. Groudon is a fantastic partner to Ice Arceus, boasting impressive Defense and the ability to set up permanent sunshine. In the sun, Ice Arceus can abuse a boosted Fire Blast, but its weakness to Fire-type attacks is accentuated. With Kyogre support instead, Ice Arceus effectively loses this weakness to Fire-type attacks, and Thunder is a more reliable attack to hurt Ho-Oh with. However, this makes Fire Blast the inferior option for the last moveslot. Focus Blast is a decent coverage option, and Recover allows Ice Arceus to acquire multiple Calm Mind boosts against some Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Palkia or other Arceus.</p>

<p>With rain support, Ice Beam is an option to replace Judgment. The 10% chance of freezing outside of strong sunlight can easily be the deciding factor in a game, and the five Base Power drop is often unnoticeable. Judgment is still generally a better option because of the increased chance to KO several major threats, and it is equally useful in any weather. Here are some calculations to illustrate the power difference of Judgment and Ice Beam in some key situations:</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Ice Beam vs. 252/0 Groudon: 95.5% - 112.9% (74% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Judgment vs. 252/0 Groudon: 101.0% - 118.8%</li>
<li>Ice Beam vs. 4/0 Zekrom: 103.5% - 111.1%</li>
<li>Ice Beam vs. 252/0 Zekrom: 87.6% - 103.0% (15% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Judgment vs. 252/0 Zekrom: 92.1% - 108.2% (46% chance to OHKO)</li>
<li>Ice Beam vs. 248/252+ Giratina: 44.5% - 52.9% (81% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers)</li>
<li>Judgment vs. 248/252+ Giratina: 46.9% - 55.3% (100% 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers)</li>
</ul>

[Other Options]

<p>Flamethrower is a more reliable way to hit Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Scizor, but the drop in power from Fire Blast makes it slightly inferior in most cases. Surf can be used in the rain to beat opposing Fire-types, but it is not of much use otherwise. Ice Arceus can learn many useful support moves including status inducers, Perish Song, Stealth Rock, and dual screens, but making a support set for a pure Ice-type is nearly suicidal. Practically every other Arceus forme outclasses Ice Arceus in this regard.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Steel-types are some of the biggest threats to Ice Arceus. Steel Arceus can easily set up on Ice Arceus and force it out with its own Judgment or Roar. Scizor can easily switch into a Judgment and threaten it with Bullet Punch. Without Fire Blast, Forretress and Ferrothorn can lay down entry hazards while threatening Ice Arceus with Gyro Ball or, in Ferrothorn's case, Thunder Wave. Heatran can comfortably wall all of Ice Arceus's attacks except Focus Blast while threatening it with devastating Fire-type attacks, particularly when it is not raining. In fact, just about everything not weak to Ice-type moves that has a Fire-type attack will be in a position to force Ice Arceus out if the sun is up, namely Ho-Oh, Mewtwo, Reshiram, Palkia, and Fire Arceus. In general, other Arceus formes that are not weak to Ice-type attacks can win a Calm Mind war if they have Recover, Focus Blast / Fire Blast, or a super effective Judgment. It almost goes without saying that Chansey and Blissey are able to switch in, cripple Ice Arceus with a status condition, and stall it to death with their insane special bulk. Terrakion can switch into a Fire Blast and pulverize Ice Arceus with Close Combat or Stone Edge. Darkrai easily outspeeds Ice Arceus and can neutralize it with a combination of Dark Void and Focus Blast. As a last note, the humble Shedinja takes no damage at all from any attack except Fire Blast.</p>

That's all for now. Overall, Ice Arceus makes fine death fodder, but it is quite difficult to incorporate it into a team. Since Species Clause exists, Ice Arceus is generally more of a burden than an asset. It is certainly "situational at best." Please comment if you can think of something to add to the analysis-in-progress.

Arceus should ALWAYS run Recover. When 10x better formes like Groundceus(resists SR) runs Recover I find no reason why Ice Arceus shouldnt run Recover. So Recover should go in the main set and Earth Power / Focus Blast goes to AC, IMO. Ice Beam should be slashed beside Judgment as it has more PP, allwoing Arceus to win Calm Mind wars. It also has a (small) freeze rate and the drop in power isnt too much.
Oh and what the heck is the EV set meant to do ?????? Ice Arceus should run 4 Hp / 252 SpA / 252 Spe and Timid nature. Arceus always runs max speed to tie with other Arceus formes, so you should change that.

When 10x better formes like Groundceus(resists SR) runs Recover I find no reason why Ice Arceus shouldnt run Recover. So Recover should go in the main set and Earth Power / Focus Blast goes to AC, IMO.

Click to expand...

Well Ice Arceus' crappy defensive typing means Recover isn't going to be as effective on him. With such a great STAB and coverage, a full-on sweeper set isn't a bad idea.

shrang said:

Well Ice Arceus' crappy defensive typing means Recover isn't going to be as effective on him. With such a great STAB and coverage, a full-on sweeper set isn't a bad idea.

Click to expand...

because of his bad typing, you need to run recover OR run a set without calm mind.

If you know when to switch in, it is not too difficult to sneak in a Calm Mind. Without Calm Mind, Ice Arceus is not much of a threat to anything, tbh. As for Recover, it is seriously hard to keep it alive for long enough to make Recover useful without Reflect support. Ice Beam is nifty a small fraction of the of the time and it is totally valid. That extra touch of power that Judgment brings puts my mind more at ease when I see some of the more dangerous threats such as Mewtwo, Giratina, and Groudon (I'll run some calcs another time). To set up for the Ice Arceus sweep, I have been spreading paralysis and burns to neuter things that really threaten it, making the freeze chance pointless. The freeze status itself is not overly helpful for Ice Arceus, who doesn't like setting up too much anyway (unless you want to run Recover, which I do not recommend). Zero-turn freeze can and does occur. That being said, if you are crazy enough to use Ice Arceus, then Ice Beam might be well-suited for you!

Edit @ below: Ice Beam and Judgment have the same PP.

Change the EV spread.

Use 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

You will want max Special Attack and Speed to at least Speed tie with other Arceus formes. Since all offensive Calm Mind Arceus are using that spread, Ice Arceus is no different.

Slash Recover back. Recover is too useful to drop and with it, Arceus can stall out threats like Scarf Palkia.

Using Ice Beam or Judgment is pretty debatable. Since Electric Arceus is using Judgment and not Thunderbolt, Ice Arceus should probably do the same. The frozen rate helps though.

I changed the EV spread from 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe Modest, but I have been much more successful with the spread that I had. The extra bit of power from Focus Blast goes a long way against Dialga. The extra power is worth it in my experience, but you are the one with the QC stamps, so I changed it. I slashed in Recover; it really can be useful, so I won't argue much there. I may be paranoid or particularly unlucky, but there were a couple of times that Ice Beam failed to KO Groudon, leaving it with 1 or 2 percent health. That was when I decided upon Modest and Judgment. Any way you look at it, Ice Arceus is not very good at all. Ice Beam may give it a slight glimmer of usefulness, I guess.

Slash in both Timid and Modest then. I didnt say Timid outclasses Modest. Modest gives more power but sometimes it's important to at least speed tie with other Calm Mind Arceus so that you beat them. This is not my opinion anyway, it's the QC leader. Ask Jibaku for reference. I usually run Modest anyway but he wants Timid.

Jibaku's opinion


Put both Ice Beam and Judgment. Doesn't matter which is the first slash. Slash Fire Blast in over Focus Blast.

All right, I added Fire Blast in the main set. I will rewrite some of the analysis when I have the time.

Er this isnt exactly a point but the Weedle analysis is longer than this and Weedle only gets 3 moves.

Ice Arceus might be one of the rarest Arceus formes but it is still clearly an Uber.

Meets all requirements


QC APPROVED (1/2)

Are there any specific KO's that Judgement can achieve but Ice Beam can't?

Death Phenomeno said:

Are there any specific KO's that Judgement can achieve but Ice Beam can't?

Click to expand...

Why does it matter? Ice Beam has no advantage over Judgement besides a freeze chance.

Looks fine.

QC APPROVED (2/2)

Here are some interesting calcs of Ice Beam vs. Judgment:

Sorry it took so long. I will update the OP shortly.

I may eventually get around to providing calcs at +1 SpA as well.

brrrrrrr

Deletions
Additions / Corrections
Comments



Change the tag to Copyediting. Otherwise,


GP 1 / 2

I have a quick suggestion. Shouldn't abomasnow be put in as a supporter for arceus and blizzard given a slash. With hail up im sure arceus could net some KOs, and hail would also deal damage helping him KO

[Overview]

<p>Returning from the desolate wastelands of afar, Arceus shows his frigid side, his heart as cold as the Icicle Plate he bears. The deity of legend appears in his frosty guise to lay ruin to all that incur his divine wrath. In perhaps the most offensively-inclined forme of them all, Ice Arceus takes no prisoners in the kill-or-be-killed world of Ubers. Unless your body is as solid as steel or your soul is as searing as the sun, you may never again feel the warmth of a new day.</p>

[SET]
name: Calm Mind
move 1: Calm Mind
move 2: Judgment / Ice Beam
move 3: Thunder
move 4: Fire Blast / Focus Blast / Recover
item: Icicle Plate
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>This set is probably the best that Ice Arceus can manage. If you can get in a Calm Mind and emerge more or less unscathed, then you can reap the sweet rewards of having STAB on the Ice-type. Judgment and Ice Beam are both valid options as the main attacking move. Judgment is the gold standard for specially-based Arceus, with 100 base power, 100% accuracy, and 16 PP. Ice Beam has the same accuracy and PP, but it sacrifices a mere 5 base power for the added 10% chance to freeze. The difference is often negligible, and the choice depends on whether you are more comfortable increasing the chance of key KOs or banking on a rare freeze. Thunder is mostly for damaging opposing Kyogre, but it is it's also useful against Ho-Oh if there is rain it's raining on the field. Fire Blast and Focus Blast are for hitting Steel-types, the choice between the two depending mostly on how likely it is that there will be strong sunlight. Recover can also be useful for healing off damage from entry hazards and enemies' attacks, making it easier to switch in multiple times.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Being a mono Ice-type is quite the burden for a set-up sweeper like Ice Arceus. The Ice-type's resistance to Ice attacks, immunity to Hail damage, and inability to be frozen are completely overshadowed by unfortunate weaknesses to Rock, Fighting, Fire, and Steel and severe vulnerability to entry hazards. All is not bad, however. Ice has excellent coverage in the Uber tier, hitting Dragon-, Ground-, Flying-, and Grass-types for super effective damage. Ice Arceus generally fares better as a late-game sweeper than as a boosting tank (as many other Arceus formes typically are) because of the inability to switch into resisted moves. The EVs allow Arceus to hit as hard as possible while tying speed with other offensive Arceus, but a Modest nature can be also used for that extra touch of power.</p>

<p>Ice Beam is a valid option to replace Judgment. The 10% chance of freezing can easily be the deciding factor in a game, and the five percent power drop is often unnoticeable. Here are some calculations to illustrate the power difference of Judgment and Ice Beam in some key situations:</p>

<ul class="damage_calculation">
<li>Ice Beam vs. 252/0 Groudon 95.5% - 112.9%</li>
<li>Judgment vs. 252/0 Groudon 101.0% - 118.8%</li>
<li>Ice Beam vs. 4/0 Zekrom 103.5% - 111.1%</li>
<li>Judgment vs. 4/0 Zekrom 108.7% - 128.1%</li>
<li>Ice Beam vs. 248/8 Giratina 59.6% - 70.4%</li>
</ul>

<p>Recover can be used over Focus Blast with enough team support, but it is usually not worth it to heal off damage considering the Ice-type's common weaknesses and lack of useful resistances. Max speed could be run to outspeed Lugia and tie with other Arceus, but Lugia is not too threatening, and Ice Arceus would likely lose to most common Arceus formes anyway. All other things it would outspeed are not common enough to deserve a mention.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Flamethrower is a more reliable way to hit Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Scizor, but the drop in power from Fire Blast makes it a slightly inferior option in most cases. Surf can be used in the rain to beat opposing fire-types in the rain, but it is not of much use otherwise. Ice Arceus can learn many potentially useful support moves including statuses, Perish Song, Stealth Rock, and dual screens, but making a support set for a pure Ice-type is nearly suicidal. Practically every other Arceus forme outclasses Ice Arceus in this regard.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Steel-types are some of the biggest threats to Ice Arceus. Steel Arceus can easily set up on Ice Arceus, and force it out with its own Judgment or Roar. Scizor can easily switch into a Judgment and threaten it with Bullet Punch. Without Fire Blast, Forretress and Ferrothorn can lay down entry hazards while threatening Ice Arceus with Gyro Ball or, in Ferrothorn's case, Thunder Wave. Heatran can comfortably wall all attacks except Focus Blast while threatening with devastating Fire attacks, particularly when it is not raining. In fact, just about everything not weak to Ice that has a Fire attack will be in a position to force Ice Arceus out if the sun is up, namely Ho-Oh, Mewtwo, Reshiram, Palkia, and Fire Arceus. In general, other Arceus formes that are not weak to Ice can win a Calm Mind war if they have Recover, Focus/Fire Blast, or a super effective Judgment type. Unless Ice Arceus has max speed, most offensive variants will outspeed it as well. It almost goes without saying that Chansey and Blissey are able to switch in, cripple you Ice Arceus with a status condition, and stall you it to death with their insane special bulk. Terrakion can switch into a Judgment or Fire Blast and pulverize Ice Arceus with Close Combat or Stone Edge. Darkrai easily outspeeds Ice Arceus and can neutralize it with a combination of Dark Void and Focus Blast. As a last note, the humble Shedinja takes no damage at all from any attack except Fire Blast.</p>

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Add
Remove

Thanks for the GP checks. I like Berserker Lord's corrections, so I implemented them. I deleted a couple of sentences and added the text in green for the sake of consistency with the standard EV spread and what-not. Hope that does not set it back to the QC stage...

Edit: I did implement the changes suggested by both of them. To clarify, I did what CP said, then I did what BL said on top of that. The damage calculation section is updated, too.

Dude. You can't just choose one and change it. Calm Pokemaster is a GP member. Implement both changes.

jacktoto7497 said:

I have a quick suggestion. Shouldn't abomasnow be put in as a supporter for arceus and blizzard given a slash. With hail up im sure arceus could net some KOs, and hail would also deal damage helping him KO

Click to expand...

Abomasnow's hail doesn't benefit Ice Arceus at all. 100% Blizzard looks cool but 4 PP due to Pressure? Weather always changes in Ubers anyway, and Groudon / Kyogre are the most common Pokemon in the tier. Abomasnow shares all of Ice Arceus weaknesses, so you don't want that to ruin your team. Passive Hail damage won't help Arceus achieve any notable extra kills.

Nothing can abuse hail in Ubers at the moment.

Not sure what that green text was doing there so I just treated it like normal. Barely noticed any issues, nice stuff.

edit: wait, just noticed that there's nothing about team options. I think you're gonna need to add a new para in AC since it's mandatory as far as I know.



2/2

Erebyssial's corrections are edited into the OP. Thanks!

Err, I didn't know that discussing team options was mandatory. Whoops! It's a good idea anyway, so I will think of something to add. That green text was just to emphasize editing on my part. It's gone now. I should probably also mention in the analysis that Ice Beam has a 0% chance to freeze in strong sunlight.

Edit: The AC section has been updated.

ok, from the new para:

Focus Blast is a decent coverage option, and Recover allows Ice Arceus to acquire multiple Calm Mind boosts against some Pokemon such as Choice Scarf Palkia or other Arceus.</p>

Click to expand...

Should be ready to go now, unless you were planning on adding more