Welcome to the Ice Age (Hail Stall RMT)

Welcome to the Ice Age (Hail Stall RMT)​

revamp in progress


1. Introduction

I know that by taking a look at the team preview, you'll notice that I am not abusing the Hail all that much. But since weather is such an important factor this gen, Abomasnow is mainly here to annoy opposing weather teams. It's also the best weather for stalling as it nullifies Leftovers recovery for 95% of the metagame.

2. In-depth look


Although not a common sight anymore this gen, Forretress still makes a more then decent Spiker, suitable for many stall based teams. I could have easily went with more popular Skarmory or Ferrothorn instead but Forretress has something that those other two don't have; access to Rapid Spin. I opted for regular Spikes over the poisonous variant mainly because it would interfere with Jellicent's Will-o-wisp otherwise. The four move-slot syndrome didn't help very much in the regard as well. Gyro Ball is a pretty standard move on Forretress and even without offensive investment it can still hit fast sweepers reasonably hard. Pain Split is without a doubt the weirdest move in this set but it's actually very effective. Like I mentioned before Skarmory and Ferrothorn are very common this metagame and with Pain Split Forretress will never loose to them while still maintaining the ability to Spin and set up Spikes. It also makes sure Forretress can survive against the likes of non-CM Jirachi and Blissey/ Chansey. In a previous version of the team I used Volt Switch in order to escape Magnezone and to handle Gyarados easier, and of course to gain switch advantage. But the unfortunate four move-slot syndrome kicks in once again and I had to drop Volt Switch. About the EV's, I usually use the easy 252 HP / 252 Def spread but since this team would be a little annoyed by Gengar otherwise, I put in some EV's in Special Defense to take it on better. A - Speed nature and 0 Speed IV's is used to maximize Gyro Ball's power.


What is a decent stall team without Blissey, she is pretty much obligatory to keep the specially offensive behemoths at bay. Even though Chansey is bulkier then Blissey thanks to the newly introduced Eviolite, I still opted for Blissey since the Leftovers recovery is really appreciated with the residual Hail damage. Besides, Blissey isn't screwed over that much if she looses her item by Knock Off or something. In earlier versions of this team I had a more offensive Blissey set with Flamethrower and Special Attack and Speed investment to handle Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Forretress and Scizor much easier, but I realized that it isn't needed at all since I can cover those threats anyway, so now Blissey is the pretty standard defensive set. Seismic Toss and Softboiled and pretty self-explanatory, giving Blissey a move with a solid damage output and a move which adds to her longevity. Toxic gives her that added stall effect and is useful for the likes of Substitute + Calm Mind Latias that has been increased in usage. Blissey also sets up the all-important Stealth Rocks, still considered the best move in the game. I know there are better options here, but I have no room on the other members of the team. Besides, Blissey is bulky to set them up multiple times if that is required. The EV's are pretty standard so that doesn't need to be explained, except perhaps the fact that I run those 4 leftover EV's in Speed rather then in Special Defense. Defensively 4 EV's are neglectable and this way I can outspeed opposing Blissey which can be useful on occasions.


What the Hail, Abomasnow? Well yeah, you can't make a Hail team without it now can you? Although Hail isn't crucial to the team it still adds to the "stall" by nullifying Leftovers recovery for a big amount of pokes, and it also disrupts other weather team strategies which is annoying. The reason I went with an offensive version here is because he doesn't offer anything defensively that my defensive core can't handle. SubSeed is an effective strategy, one that works especially well on Stall teams, with residual damage support. Abomasnow also helps me against common defensive Stallbreakers as Jellicent, Mew and Prankster Sableye, 2HKO'ing the former with Giga Drain while the latter two are hit hard by Blizzard. Talking about Blizzard, it's a powerful and easy spammable move as long as Hail is up and pairs well with Giga Drain which got a nice boost this generation, allowing it to be actually used effectively now. Abomasnow is actually a pretty dangerous pokemon to handle once it gets a Substitute up as the opposing pokemon is either hit with one of two powerful STAB moves or SubSeed stall'ed. Last but not least Abomasnow is also my Trick absorber, so another member of the team doesn't get screwed over by it. Rotom-W is the most common Trick user at the moment and Abomasnow can switch into that pretty easily. The EV's are rather simple, max special attack to hit as hard as possible and the speed is useful for SubSeed stalling. The leftover EV are added to SDef and not HP so Abomasnow has an uneven HP stat which makes it easier to switch into Stealth Rock.




Jellicent is by far the best Spin Blocker to currently use in the OU metagame, therefor it received a staying spot on this team. With the removal of Excadrill, Jellicent can take on all the commonly used Rapid Spinners (bare Life Orb Starmie with Thunder). Jellicent's Water and Ghost typing also gives the team an additional resistance to Fighting and Fire moves, two attacking types that can cause Hail teams many problems. The main selling point it has over the other Spin Blockers as Mismagius, Chandelure, Gengar or (lol) Rotom isn't just its higher bulk, but access to the reliable recovery move Recover. Jellicent can take repeated hits and recover of the damage in a blink of an eye. Other then blocking Rapid Spin, Jellicent is also a pretty decent stallbreaker. With Taunt and Will-o-Wisp he can screw over opposing stall teams or various defensive combinations without much effort. Despite have other Water resists on this team, I still went with Water Absorb as the ability, so it has a better chance to take on strong Rain sweepers as Choice Specs Politoed or even the likes of Crocune. I also prevents burns from random Scalds which can decrease my longevity. Cursed Body never worked when I needed it to anyway. Scald and Will-o-wisp on the same set might look redundant, but it's useful for things as Stallbreaker Mew, who can still be burned despite me being Taunt'ed. I run a somewhat speedier variant to outspeed things common on Stall teams (Skarmory, opposing Jellicent, etc) so I have an easier time "breaking" them. 248 HP EV's lets Jellicent take less damage from Spikes in case I couldn't get rid of them with Forretress.


Gliscor is a perfect candidate for a stall team like this one. Good defensive typing coupled with a more then average bulk and immune to status thanks to it's new Dream World ability Poison Heal coupled with a Toxic Orb. Gliscor is here to take on the physical attacking beasts that threaten the team.

Earthquake coupled with Ice Fang has provides me with good enough coverage to hit physical attackers for at least neutral damage. Sword Dance is helpful when combating the likes of Bulk Up Conkeldurr but it also makes Gliscor a more dangerous threat for opposing stall teams. The EV's are a bit custom; 244 HP provides the highest possible amount of Poison Heal recovery, 176 Def hits a defensive point and the Speed EV's make sure I outspeed opposing Gliscor, which has proven to be very helpful in the past.


Last but not least we have Latias. Perhaps a weird sight to see on a Stall team but Latias is an excellent pokemon to patch up some final weaknesses. For starters, she is here to take on the Reuniclus and Sigilyph that bother stall teams so much. I boost up simultaneously, Roar them so they looses their boosts, I still have mine so I can sweep through my opponent's team. Latias also provides the team with a Phazer, making it easier to handle Baton Pass teams and boosting sweepers. Plus, it's a shame to not abuse the laid down entry hazards through shuffling. The ability to go "offensive" makes Latias a potent threat for a mid-to-late game sweep. I have to be careful for Tyranitar and Scizor though, but with Roar and entry hazards I should be able to keep those threats at bay.

3. Threatlist


4. Alternate version (post Excadrill/ Thunderus ban)


5. Former team members


6. Importables


7. Conclusion

That was the team. I feel this team is the best as possible, and cannot become a lot better without making some drastic changes.

I really like this team. My own team is very similar to this and I think that the forrie, blissey, laitas, skarm/gliscor, t-tar/hippo/obama, jellecent team will be one of the bog standards for 5th gen stall.

I would recommend gyro ball over volt change on forrie. It would cover your SD weavile weakness and give forrie much needed decent attack. forrie is generally too busy setting up hazards and spinning to get the best use out of volt change anyways.

I would run wow/recover/taunt/surf or shadow ball on jellecent. Anything that jellecent can toxic/taunt stall it can also burn/taunt stall, but burn has the added benefit of crippling physical pokemon. I would also look into investing more evs into speed as a fast jellecent can burn/taunt/cursed body stall a signifant number of pokemon.

I am curious as to how you deal with the common Mixtar and last mon Reniculus. None of your pokemon can tank Mixtar's attacks too well nor can they ohko/cripple it in return. Normally to deal with reniculus I would go to bliss to paralyze it then latias to roar it away so I can out CM it when it is the last mon, but you don't carry the paralysis support to pull this trick and I don't see how you would kill it unless you get to setup and sweep with latias earlier. Overall it is a very solid and well-made team that covers pretty much all the threats in the metagame. Well done.

One idea that I had found out is for Blissey if you try using Calm Mind instead of Stealth Rock or Seismic Toss you might be able to do significant damage.

Hi Delko lovely Hail team (and its about time you f**king posted one :) )

As pointed out you have a rather large MixTar weakness. Your best shot is getting it down to 50% and then revenging it with Gliscor, however that will likely mean you sacing at least 1 member of your team, possibly 2 to bring it down. Another issue I can see is BU Conkeldurr. Unfortunately for you it is getting 1 BU on your switch to Gliscor and then it can keep spamming BU (I think it ends up at +4 while you are at +6). After just 2 Bulk Ups trust me, your Gliscor is taking massive damage. Even if by some miracle you win, Gliscor would be so weakened that something like Terrakion or Excadrill would be able to finish the job.


To Fix these issues

Run Taunt over Gliscor

I know that you love Protect and that it has good use. However with Taunt you can threaten stall cores better while having a better chance of success at beating BU Conkeldurr.

To fix the Mixtar weakness

Will-o-wisp on Jellicent (over Toxic)

Yeah I know that you love Toxic but Will-o-wisp does give you a better chance vs Mixtar. Scald can only Burn it 30% of the time after all and if you can get that Burn on Tar then Jellicent and heck even latias can stall it out. If (for whatever reason) you cannot live without Toxic then I guess the only thing left would be to use a Rest Talk Gyara over latias which means that you lose a set up sweeper while being a little bit weaker to Reuniclus (Jellicent should still win though). I guess its up to you but really, id just run Will-o-wisp on Jellicent

GL with the team Delko!

Thanks for the rate everyone.

LeadTars are a bit difficult but not impossible, with Forretress I have to predict, will Ttar use Stealth Rocks or will he use Fire Blast, so I can either set up a layer of Spikes or Pain Split (Sturdy makes sure I'm not OHKO'ed). This will already put Ttar at 50% of his health. Since most of them invest in special attack so they can OHKO Ferrothorn, they do not EV their attack stat. Coupled with the fact that they run Pursuit as a 4th move most of the time, means that Jellicent can Scald until it gets a burn, if they do carry Crunch I can Recover stall until Cursed Body kicks in. Last poke Reuniclus is a pain, but they are for all teams. If they carry Psychic, Latias can get to +6 and outstall it (without crits), and if it carries Psyshock Gliscor can get an SD up and 2HKO (I try to keep them both healthy). I like your suggested Jellicent set. Thanks for the suggestion TheCommadore, I will try it out for sure ^^

Will-o-wisp over Toxic is a great suggestion to help me against Tyranitar I shall try it out, but Toxic has proved to be overall more useful as I can hit Virizion or opposing Calm Mind Latias (without Refresh) on the switch, so I can put pressure on them. Taunt on Gliscor is also a good suggestion. I've tried it out before and it was really useful but so has Protect. Obviously whenever I'm in a battle and I either need Protect or Taunt and I always have the wrong one. Good suggestions Ginganinja, thanks ^^

TheCakeIsALie said:

Did you use that team yesterday?

Click to expand...

Uhm, used it where? I probably did though, as I only have 1 team.

hi delko,

looking at your team right now, it does look solid with some solid cores. however, i see some slight weakness to opposing defensive teams mainly skarmbliss. my first take at this is adding taunt over protect on gliscor so that skarmory doesnt whirlwind you easily or set up spikes. secondly, the taunt really allows you to keep opposing defensive teams struggling to set up on you. also stops shit like bulk up conkeldurr from beating you one on one.

id definitely want you to try out toxic spikes over pain split on forretress to rack up residual damage. it just looks so fitting on this team, and the extra poison damage helps you beat things like blissey, chansey, jellicent, vaporeon, etc lategame with latias. forretress is bulky enough to stick around for a long time so you should give that a try. abomasnow could try wood hammer over giga drain if you want to shitsmack tyranitar for high damage, removing this huge nuissance to your team.

as for other options, if you want to sort of easen up the weakness on tyranitar, you can replace volt switch for gyro ball and go for 0 speed ivs and go for a relaxed nature. just a try, but overall gl!

Thanks for the rate Franky ^^

Jellicent can beat SkarmBliss cores though, but I've noticed that Taunt on Gliscor can help me alot. Pain Split is actually a very useful move on Forretress and allows him to keep sponging physical hits. I'll try Toxic Spikes and Gyro Ball though. Thanks for the suggestions!

Just a nitpick Delko but currently the Standard Skarm outspeeds you (currently I think its 22 speeed they run?). Unless you really want to bump your speed up id put some more Evs back into Defence.

I have been using pain split forrie for weeks now and I never thought of using pain split on the frist move to halve the t-tars hp. That is just an awsome trick. I would definently keep pain split on forrie as it allows him switch in on and never die to ferrothorn ever and just gives him more oppertunities to set up hazards/spin. The real question for forrie for me would be which to use of spikes or t-spikes. I would have to give my vote to regular spikes as the counters for latias are generally:t-tar, scizor, chansey, blissey, ferrothorn, specially defensive jirachi, and various other steel types. Of these pokemon t-spikes can kill about half of then but spikes hits all of them and if you roar on the switchin you can rack up 60%-75% damage to them if you have full spikes and SR up.

The other suggestion I have would be to replace flamethrower with aromatherapy on blissey. Like you said the things you hit with flamethrower are scizor, skarm, ferrothorn and ghosts. scizor can be handled with jellecent pretty easily, and forrie can prevent skarm and ferrothorn from having any affect at all. This would leave you weak to subsplit LO gengar who can kill blissey and pretty much sweep your team, however in all my time playing 5th gen i have never seen somebody run this and all other gengar sets can be out pp stalled by blissey.

The benefit of running aromatherapy would be that it keeps status effects, especially toxic, from ruining jellecent and latias. There have been countless times when I have switched jellecent on say a vaporeon and gotten toxiced on the switch or a rotom-w burns latias on the switchin, thus making it much harder to setup later on as 3hkos become 2hkos with the burn.

Seriously though for like 3 weeks now I have been using:
painsplit forrie/heal bell bliss/taunt jellecent/ standard skarm/ice fang hippowdon/Cm roar latias
It is really cool to see somebody else sucessfully use the same style of team.

@ Ginganinja, I'll try another ev spread then, I kinda do want to outspeed Skarmory, but since Gliscor is getting Taunt as well ..., I'll see what to do.

@ TheCommadore, Yeah, Aromatherapy would be useful on Blissey, but it really works against Gliscor, even though he has a Toxic Orb, it has to activate again every turn, making him harder to switch him into stuff like Breloom. I have 2 status absorbers though and Forretress doesn't mind status as well. Nonetheless, I shall try your suggestion, thanks ^^

Bump!

Changes I'm testing:

Will-o-wisp > Toxic on Jellicent.
A spread of 248 HP / 216 Def / 44 Spe on Jellicent

Taunt > Protect on Gliscor

Ugh. You should run 36 speed on jelly just so my vaporeon can rest before you taunt....... jk. As much as l love Toxic l second WoW usage. And even Surf>Scald as you already have a 75% burn chance with Wow, or even Hex to KO starmie easier

Yeah, I've been having success with Will-o-wisp, it's just that Porygon2, CM Latias, CM Virizion, ... are hard to take out with this team and Toxic deals with them.

The whole OP post was an interesting read, and a nice team you got there

Funny though, I thought only I named my Jellicent "Nurahiyon" (Yokai Jellyfish Demon)

I like this team, but I feel like Blissey is the weakest link. Have you thought about replacing it for something like specially-defensive Jirachi? It takes on Latios more reliably as it doesn't mind being tricked a Choice Scarf and it takes nothing from Psycho Shock.

One reason is that you lack a solid switch-in to Tyranitar. You cannot rely on it not having Ice Beam, as if it does have Ice Beam, you lack no real switch-in. Jirachi solves this issue. Jirachi can also help with Scizor issues if you choose to use Fire Punch [although that'd mean you'd have to give Forretress Stealth Rock..]. Due to the fact that most of Jirachi's switch-ins are Pokemon like Gliscor and Garchomp, rather than last gen, when it was just Heatran, you will be able to pass Wish relatively reliably.

At the moment, your team is also murdered by Taunt + WoW Mew and because your Gliscor does not have Taunt [and will most likely be slower], you lack a solid switch. Jirachi can at least come in and paralyse it so your Pokemon are now faster. Also because Jirachi beats Calm Mind Reuniclus most of the time, you can afford to try something other than Roar on Latias. Even Substitute or Refresh so you hard counter Sigilyph, or maybe Hidden Power [Fire] as Scizor can be annoying.

Echoing ginganinja by suggesting Will-o-wisp on Jellicent.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Blissey prevents my team from being Gengar weak and acts as a secundary check against Volcarona as well as walling Heatran completely. On the other hand, Jirachi offers Wish support and counters Dragons and Reuniclus better. I shall try Jirachi instead of Blissey then.

Oh, and when I see a Ttar I always assume it's moveset to be Stealth Rock/ Fire Blast/ Ice Beam/ Crunch. Forretress can lure him into Fire Blast and Pain Split back his health (puts Ttar around 53%) so I can finish him with Gliscor. Same thing with Blissey: S-Toss untill it's on low health so Gliscor can kill it. Or I could even use Jellicent, burning it with Scald (or Will-o-wisp), Taunt it so I prevent Stealth Rocks from being set up or I can Curse Body stall Crunch. If Tyranitar is bellow 60% Abomasnow can revenge kill it. Luring out Ttar early game and take him out is one less counter for Latias' late game sweep.

Thanks for the rates ^^

Update!

Because both moves were useful I added these as options:

Gliscor now has Taunt as an option;
Jellicent has the option of Will-o-wisp.

I kept Forretress moveset as it was. It seems to be the most effective. Toxic Spikes was a good option here though. Stupid 4 moveslot syndrome.

I decided to keep the EV spread on Jellicent. I might not outstpeed 24 Spe EV's Skarmory anymore, but I still do outspeed the likes of defensive Politoad so I can Taunt it.

I didn't use Jirachi instead of Blissey. Mainly because I didn't want to give Forretress Stealth Rocks. Heatran is also easier to counter with Blissey around, and of course, the suprise kills on the Steels is priceless.

Thanks for the rates! ^^

Yet again you made an excellent team Delko, so congrats for that. I actually stole this team and try laddering with it on po and it works amazing. Will-o-wisp might sound like a good suggestion on paper, but I've found Toxic to be more useful overal, especially against stuff that can recover like Calm Mind Latias, or Porygon2.

You could try Hitmontop instead of Forretress as a spinner. Hitmontop deals with Tyranitar perfectly. If you do that you can also use Skarmory instead of Gliscor as a steel pokemon and to lay down Spikes. Skarmory also gets Whirlwind so then you can give Latias something like Substitute or Refresh. Or you can try a Choice Scarf set with Trick to deal with Reuniclus much better and to just be a good revenge killing pokemon.

Hey thanks for the suggestions,
it's pretty funny because I posted a hail team with Skarmory and Hitmontop before. I shall try them again then. Thanks ^^

Updated the op!

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. ^^

EDIT: I'm actually trying Hex/ Shadow Ball on Jellicent now instead of Scald, because of Will-o-wisp. It makes it easier to deal with Reuniclus, CM Latias and opposing Jellicent (a secondary check can never hurt). It makes me a bit weaker to Fire types like Infernape and Heatran though. Ideas?

Delko said:

Updated the op!

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. ^^

EDIT: I'm actually trying Hex/ Shadow Ball on Jellicent now instead of Scald, because of Will-o-wisp. It makes it easier to deal with Reuniclus, CM Latias and opposing Jellicent (a secondary check can never hurt). It makes me a bit weaker to Fire types like Infernape and Heatran though. Ideas?

Click to expand...

I have 3 possible solutions:

1. get rid of Will-O-Wisp and use Scald as your form of burning opponents (this is unreliable though)
2. get rid of Taunt (this also hampers you a lot)
3. Gliscor does well in those situations (unless Heatran is attacking with Dragon Pulse)

That's all I could come up with, might want to test these situations out.

Wouldn't be fun to use Custap Berry on Forretress? You hang at 1 HP with Sturdy after receiving a fire attack and in the next turn you may pain split from there, moving first:D

Unfortunately Custap Berry is as of yet unreleased and therefore illegl in standard play. Otherwise it would be an excellent choice.