Ferroseed (UU Analysis)

Ferroseed


[Overview]

<p>While Ferrothorn reigns in OU with its supreme bulk, typing, and support movepool, Ferroseed is a great supporting Pokemon in UU with many similar qualities. It has the same amazing typing and nearly equal bulk factoring in Eviolite, allowing Ferroseed to be a great wall despite the loss of Leftovers. Ferroseed's main issue stems from its terrible Base 50 Attack, leaving it to become set up bait to even some of the bulky Water-types that it's supposed to counter. Despite this flaw, by abusing its great typing and support movepool, Ferroseed can be a great supporter in UU.</p>

[SET]
name: Spiker
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Thunder Wave / Protect
move 4: Gyro Ball
item: Eviolite
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
ivs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With an amazing typing that gives it 10 resistances and 1 immunity at the cost of 2 weaknesses, Ferroseed is great user of Spikes. Spikes is a superb supporting move, limiting the number of times the opponent can switch while also helping many sweepers obtain OHKOs that they would miss otherwise. If your team already has a Spikes user, you may run Stealth Rock in its place. Leech Seed is used as Ferroseed's main form of recovery, and it also discourages Pokemon from setting up on Ferroseed. Thunder Wave is the primary option in the third slot, crippling fast set up sweepers such as Cobalion and Weavile trying to use it as fodder, and enabling your own slower sweepers such as Togekiss to sweep. Protect is a possible secondary option, allowing Ferroseed to scout opposing Choice users and gain Leech Seed recovery. In the last slot, Gyro Ball is used to hit many sweepers relatively hard and prevents it from being crippled by Taunt.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Although the main spread is specially defensive, one may opt to use either a physically defensive spread or mix EVs. Toxic is a viable option over Gyro Ball to cripple many walls and quickly end an opponent's sweep due to the fact that Ferroseed's Gyro Ball is not powerful enough. Because this set is meant to set up entry hazards, a spinblocker such as Dusclops or Mismagius is useful to prevent the entry hazards from being spun away. Pokemon that enjoy entry hazard support such as Weavile make great partners for Ferroseed, as do phazers such as Suicune or Donphan to rack up entry hazard damage. Bulky Water-types such as Slowbro make great partners for Ferroseed, as they can take the powerful Fire- and Fighting-type attacks aimed at Ferroseed, while it can take the Electric- or Grass-type attacks aimed at said Water-type. Due to Ferroseed's weak offenses, a revenge killer is recommended, as practically everything can use Ferroseed as set up bait.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Despite Ferroseed's limited movepool, it has a few more options it can use. Seed Bomb and Bullet Seed are viable alternatives to Gyro Ball to hit Rhyperior as well as bulky Water-types for super effective damage, although faster pokemon such as Azelf can set up without an issue and sweep. Gravity is useful on Gravity teams that need a user, although Spikes is illegal with Gravity.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>While Ferroseed has great defenses and typing, Fire- and Fighting-type Pokemon such as Heracross and Victini can destroy Ferroseed. Any Pokemon that use set up moves such as Cobalion or Suicune may also use Ferroseed as set up bait and proceed to sweep. Lastly, Xatu or Taunt users such as Crobat can make Ferroseed a liability, preventing Ferroseed from setting up entry hazards or statusing Pokemon.</p>

From the research thread :

Confirmed Multi-hit moves now have 33.3% chance to hit either 2 or 3 times and 16.6% to hit either 4 or 5 times

Click to expand...

So Seed Bomb is still slightly more powerful on average than Bullet Seed. Bullet Seed is really unreliable, I mean, you have 33.3 % chance of not breaking a Sub from Mismagius and that's the frailest user of Substitute I can think about.

Even Seed Bomb kinda sucks, you can't really dent 252/252 + Suicune with an uninvested 50 base Attack, even with a STAB Super Effective move. Not to mention that Suicune can burn you with a Sleep Talked Scald. You shouldn't try to attack bulky waters anyway, just set up Spikes on them and/or Leech Seed them and switch.

Gyro Ball seems overall more useful, since it is powerful enough to 2HKO some frail sweepers like Mismagius or Swellow, and can at least dent Grass type that switch in to take a Leech Seed.

You need to mention Xatu as a counter, anything with Magic Bounce makes Ferroseed a liability.

((1/3) * 2 + (1/3) * 3 + (1/6)*4 + (1/6)*5) * 25 = 79.17

So the guy above me is right. It is weaker on average than Seed Bomb, though I should add that this is highly marginal.

(and before anyone says, no the critical hit rate does not make any difference to this)

You might want to consider an other spread.

With Eviolite your defenses are getting a boost.

With 4 HP | 252 Def | 252 SpD You can maximize the use of Eviolite.
At least thats my opinion.

Well, I'm sorry, but your opinion is wrong (hehe I always wanted to say that).

A 50% boost is a 50% boost. It does not matter which spread you have. For a Pokemon with relatively low HP like Ferroseed, you get a much greater advantage from maximising HP unless you want to recover more health from Leech Seed.

i wonder where i got the idea that bullet seed is better... oh well changes made

prem said:

i wonder where i got the idea that bullet seed is better... oh well changes made

Click to expand...

Technician Breloom, perhaps?

tbh the only attack you should be mentioning at all is gyro ball (stick the others in OO). run min speed 0 iv (run it no matter what since it's not like ferroseed will ever outspeed anything bar other ferroseeds) and every poke above a blistering 48 base speed that's not running 0 iv or negative nature will be taking a 150 BP attack (granted, with terrible coverage) guaranteed.

also, this is roughly equivalent to an uninvested aggron's iron head.

otherwise, this looks fine; worried about the developing slashitis but that's not a huge problem.

mention iron defence and curse in OO?

QC APPROVED (1/3)

We'll find a suitable spread for Ferroseed eventually.

thanks pk! ya im not sure what it wants to survive, becaue it takes practically everything. if i can have an idea of what it wants to be able to survive easily (im bad at thinking of this stuff 9.9) then ill probably make a better ev spread

Slash Stealth Rock in the first slot and remove the Toxic slash. Ferroseed counters dangerous stuff like Weavile, Gyro Ball is absolutely needed for it to do its job well.

QC APPROVED 2/3

prem said:

• easily defeats rhyperior

Click to expand...

wat

Rhyperior nearly 2hkos you with CB Stone Edge and nearly ohkos with CB Earthquake. Non-choice sets still beat you very easily.

I also don't think protect deserves a slash to be honest, Thunder Wave/Toxic seems like much better use of that slot, although I haven't used Ferroseed myself.

FlareBlitz said:

[/LIST]
wat

Rhyperior nearly 2hkos you with CB Stone Edge and nearly ohkos with CB Earthquake. Non-choice sets still beat you very easily.

I also don't think protect deserves a slash to be honest, Thunder Wave/Toxic seems like much better use of that slot, although I haven't used Ferroseed myself.

Click to expand...

oh that was when i was completely confused on the bullet seed issue... ill get rid of that. and protect is actually extremely useful on ferroseed, because it helps so much recovery, especially with no lefties. though with wish support thats less of an issue

bumb for QC. want to be able to finish al my analysises before school starts

QC 3/3

T-Wave > Protect imo though

ok im going to assume the ev spread is fine, speak now to change it

edit: ok ill do that. probably makes more sense

actually idk what those 48 Def evs are doing, imo just make it max/max SpD and mention max/max physical in AC

finally finished writing this. ready for gp checks

unofficial check

add (let me know if you want more standard colors)
remou
a comment or 2

[Overview]

<p>As While Ferrothorn reigns OU with its supreme bulk, typing, and support movepool, Ferroseed is a great supporting Pokemon in UU with many similar qualities. With It has the same amazing typing, and nearly equal bulk factoring in the Eviolite, allowing Ferroseed to can easily be a great wall despite the loss of Leftovers. Ferroseed's main issue stems from its terrible Base 50 Attack, leaving it to be set up bait to even the some bulky waters that it counters. Despite this flaw, by abusing its great typing and support movepool, Ferroseed can be a great threat in UU.</p>

[SET]
name: Spiker
move 1: Spikes / Stealth Rock
move 2: Leech Seed
move 3: Thunder Wave / Protect
move 4: Gyro Ball
item: Eviolite
nature: Sassy
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With an amazing typing that gives it 10 resistances and 1 immunity at the cost of 2 weaknesses, Ferroseed is great user of Spikes. Spikes is a superb great supporting move, limiting the number of times the opponent can switch while also helping many sweepers obtain OHKOs that they would miss otherwise. not obtain. If your team already has a Spikes user, one you may run Stealth Rock in its place. Leech Seed is used as Ferroseed's main form of recovery, while and it also discourages discouraging Pokemon from setting up on Ferroseed. Thunder Wave is the primary option in the third slot, crippling fast set up sweepers such as Cobalion and Weavile trying to use it as fodder, and also enabling your own slower sweepers such as Togekiss to sweep. Protect is a secondary option to use, allowing Ferroseed to it scout opposing Choice users and gain Leech Seed recovery. , while recovering more health when combined with Leech Seed. In the last slot, Gyro Ball is used to hit many sweepers relatively hard and prevents it from being crippled by Taunt. while preventing Ferroseed from being Taunt bait. IMO only having one, 8PP, Steel-type attack still makes it bait for Taunt, so I changed it to being crippled</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Although the main spread is specially defensive, one may opt to use either a physically defensive spread of mix EVs the evs. Because this set is meant to set up entry hazards, a spinblocker such as Dusclops or Mismagius is useful to prevent the entry hazards from being spun away. Pokemon that who enjoy entry hazard support such as Weavile make great partners for to Ferroseed, while as do PHhazers such as Suicune or Donphan are useful to rack entry hazard damage. Bulky Water-types such as Slowbro make great partners for to Ferroseed,[comma] as they can take the powerful Fire- and Fighting-type attacks aimed at Ferroseed, while it can take the Electric- or Grass-type attacks aimed at said Water-type. Due to Ferroseed's weak offenses, a revenge killer is recommended,[comma] as practically everything can use Ferroseed as set up bait.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Despite Ferroseed's limited movepool, it has a few more options it can use. Seed Bomb and Bullet Seed are viable alternatives to Gyro Ball to hit Rhyperior as well as Bulky Water-types for super effective damage, although faster pokemon such as Azelf can set up without an issue and sweep. Toxic is also a viable move over Gyro Ball thanks to Ferroseed's its good bulk, allowing it to quicken the end of a sweep and to cripple walls. , while also crippling walls from walling. Gravity is useful on gravity teams that need a gravity user, although Spikes is illegal with Gravity it cannot run Spikes with Gravity.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>While Ferroseed has great defenses and typing, Fire- and Fighting-remove space type Pokemon such as Heracross or Victini can destroy Ferroseed. Any Pokemon that who use set up moves such as Cobalion or Suicune may also use Ferroseed as set up bait, and proceed to sweep. Lastly Xatu or Taunt users such as Crobat can make Ferroseed a liability, preventing Ferroseed from setting up entry hazards or statusing Pokemon.</p>

Why use Thunder wave when you have Gyro Ball on the same set? Isn't that a bit counter productive? Granted Ferroseed isn't a offensive behemoth, but being redundant is worse. Go with Toxic, as at least you'll have a chance to stand up to bulky Pokemon like Milotic better.

A little bit too late, but mention Hitmonlee as a check? It's immune to Thunder Wave, it can cause serious damage with Blaze Kick or HJK, and can blow away Leech Seed (granted, Hitmonlee rarely carries Rapid Spin).

the thunderwave gyroball situation was decided by QC, personally i think protect should be first, but oglemi says otherwise xD

and hitmonlee now runs reckless or unburden making it not immune to thunderwave. also i dont think mentioning every fighting type is worth it as they all can seriously just kill it iwhtout issue

edit: added vox's check

The reason behind the T-Wave - Gyro Ball descrepency is because most of Ferroseed's usefulness and even damage comes from T-Wave, Leech Seed, Stealth Rock, and Iron Barbs. Gyro Ball is really only there so you aren't Taunt bait, and coincidentally you do nice damage to the common Taunters with it (Mew in particular).

Honestly I'd be fine with Toxic there too, but I think Toxic is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more useful in RU. T-Wave I think is more useful in UU because nailing SmashPassers, the really fast stuff (i.e. Azelf), and shit like Mew and Celebi on the switch is a god-send, where hitting them with Toxic merely puts them on a timer (which the SmashPassers and Celebi (and sometimes even BP Mew) don't particularly care about).

Really either one is ok, which is why Toxic should def be in AC if it isn't already.

EDIT: Protect I think is a waste of a moveslot unless you're running Toxic, and even then I'm not a fan of it >:(

gdi oglemi. changed

Btw, Ferroseed is such a slow fuck that even if the enemy is paralyzed, Gyro Ball is still gonna do a decent amount of damage, especially if the enemy is running max Speed