(MC) Middle Cup Tier

R4GEKILL · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:18:05 AM

Hi, I'm R4GEKILL

, but many people know me as the Middle Cup Guy.

What is Middle Cup?
Middle Cup is a (currently) unofficial tier consisting of a very select range of Pokemon. It is similar to Little Cup except the stipulations are more.
It was an extremely ignored metagame created on Smogon in Gen4. This thread was created because I WANT TO BRING IT BACK!!! Between the New Dream World abilities, The lack of any permanent weather starters, and the introduction of the Evolite, I think that Middle Cup could actually be a Serious competitive metagame in gen 5.
Where can I play Middle Cup?
On Pokemon Online, on the Smogon server, there is a channel called "Unofficial Metagames".
You should look there for battles, or just PM/VM anyone that posts on this thread regularly.
The Rules of Middle Cup are as follows:
-All Pokemon must be Level 50
-All Pokemon must have evolved from something (even if from a Baby)
-All Pokemon must be able to evolve into something
A LINK TO THE SEREBIIFORUM THREAD (If you're interested in the cases other people have made before I put this on smogon):
http://serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=536140
A LIST OF ALL THE CURRENT POKES ALLOWED IN MIDDLE CUP:
http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/search?evolution_position=middle
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
THREATLIST:
(THANKS MELVINI)

The 78 Pokemon in the Tier, Divided by Type

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest HP in the Tier

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Attack in the Tier

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Defense in the Tier

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Special Attack in the Tier

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Special Defense in the Tier

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Speed in the Tier

The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Stat Totals in the Tier

bluemon · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:21:12 AM

oh gosh. dusclops and chansey are gunna be SOOOOO BROKEN. not to mention porygon-2.

Percussionist · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:25:46 AM

I remember this. Somebody want to post some fun sets? Off the top of my head, I remember Machoke acting as a mini-Machamp. Eviolite will go a long way to making him last longer. I'd be willing to try this out if enough people start playing it.

R4GEKILL · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:33:05 AM

I actually tested this on PO with some people from serebii...
It was pretty kick ass. It's a psuedostall tier with no auto-weather, and a lot of viable pokes. Nothing is really "Broken" (Other then maybe Kadabra if you don't run chansey or dusclops or a dark type), But It really is fun to use things like amnesia ivysaur, nastypass togetic, Pory2, gurdurr, dusclops, roselia, SpecsDabra, ElectiBand, etc.
It's pretty damn fun. It's honestly better then OU for me JUST because of the higher amount of originality behind it, and the MUCH smaller metagame.

bluemon · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:33:43 AM

i really wanna play. i can see the pseudo legends as some of the top tier sweepers. also combusken.

hydreigon'sprevowhosenameiforgot.
@eviolite/ adamant/ hustle
252 attack 252 hp 4 defense
outrage
dragon claw
crunch
filler

fraxure @eviolite
adamantx 252 attack 252 speed 4 hp
dragon dance
dragon claw/sub
outrage/sub
dig/rock smash

dratini
@eviolite
252 hp 252 attack 4 speed adamant
dragon dance
roost
waterfall/extremespeed
outrage

combusken
@eviolite
adamant 252 attack 252 speed
protect/shadow claw
swords dance
flare blitz
sky uppercut

with dragons running around, i see klang (i think) and metang as top walls

metang
impish
252 hp 252 defense
meteor mash
earthquake/sleep talk
toxic/hone claws
filler (rest)

Percussionist · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:35:46 AM

R4GEKILL, could you fix the link in the OP? I'm getting a 404 Error. But I'm interested in trying this out, we should have a match sometime.

R4GEKILL · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:36:04 AM

Honestly, offense is kinda trash in this tier. You're hitting OU defenses with RU offenses. That's why trick and knock off users are key in this tier. Lol. that's also why I win so many matches...

bluemon · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:38:14 AM

^agreed. chansey porygon2 and dusclops are all ou viable and used a great deal, too. however pokemon like dragonair arent used. at all.

oh and i forgot gabite.
another note, weather is not present. could this be the clear skies we always wanted?

Percussionist · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:38:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat R4GEKILL

Honestly, offense is kinda trash in this tier. You're hitting OU defenses with RU offenses. That's why trick and knock off users are key in this tier. Lol. that's also why I win so many matches...

I imagine everything in the tier is running Eviolite, which is why it's so bulky. Interesting, a tier stall can actually be used in this Gen.
EDIT: @bluemon: I'm looking forward to that, as I can't play OU due to the amount of weather it holds. Without automatic weather, I feel this will be a fresh tier using OU's little brothers, and lots of Eviolite.

alphatron · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:42:15 AM

I recall using sturdy lairon as my SR setter back when I played this. Worked pretty well. Then again, I was using a custap berry.

Yeah, so worturtle being the only rapid spinner is awful.

R4GEKILL · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:42:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

^agreed. chansey porygon2 and dusclops are all ou viable and used a great deal, too. however pokemon like dragonair arent used. at all.

oh and i forgot gabite.
another note, weather is not present. could this be the clear skies we always wanted?

I think so. This has absolutely no weather starters. But SOME DICK will come along and make a rain dance team... I can feel it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Percussionist

I imagine everything in the tier is running Eviolite, which is why it's so bulky. Interesting, a tier stall can actually be used in this Gen.

Not EVERYTHING, some pokes run choice items. But yeah, mostly Evolites.

bluemon · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:43:08 AM

okay. just look through middle stage pokemons... i see two more viable offensive pokemon.

maril.... ehhh. idk. could be tho with choice band. but the next pokemon can rip the whole metagame apart.
ready?

pikachu. with light ball.
95 speed is kickass in middle cup and has focus punch to handle chansey. i can see pikachu being a top top threat. it also has lightning rod now :) and nasty plot.

R4GEKILL · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:44:03 AM

Lol. Kadabra and Electabuzz are the fastest in the tier, with base 105.

bluemon · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:46:45 AM

WAIT GUYS.
this just struck me

wartortle is the only rapid spinner.....

that means toxic spikes+spikes+stealth rock spam.

ohmygosh. this is worse than UU. there are seriously no middle stage rapid spinners except wartortle.

EDIT: another strategy: trickrrom. with middlecup's horrible speed, i can see durian? (reuniclus prevo... solosis mayeb?) ripping teams to shreds with 125 special attack. plus, its immune to entry hazards.

**blarajan** · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:49:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat alphatron

I recall using sturdy lairon as my SR setter back when I played this. Worked pretty well. Then again, I was using a custap berry.

Yeah, so worturtle being the only rapid spinner is awful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

WAIT GUYS.
this just struck me

wartortle is the only rapid spinner.....

that means toxic spikes+spikes+stealth rock spam.

ohmygosh. this is worse than UU. there are seriously no middle stage rapid spinners except wartortle.

he's way ahead of you =).

anyways what actually is middle tier and has access to tspikes/spikes?

bluemon · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:53:06 AM

awwww :( i didnt see that.

as far as i know, scolipedes prevo has toxic spikes
roselia has tosic spikes...

ill look up spikes.

alphatron · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:53:27 AM

Roselia gets spikes and tspikes. Thanks budew...

SlimMan · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:54:56 AM

edit: ninja'ed horribly but mine is more complete so w/e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat blarajan

anyways what actually is middle tier and has access to tspikes/spikes?

T-Spikes: Roselia, Whirlipede, Nidorina, Nidorino
Spikes: Roselia, Whirlipede
and as alpha/blue already said...
Rapid Spin: Wartortle

not a horrible imbalance IMO
but SR will be everywhere cuz a ton of shit got it in gen4

i could get into this tier later but not now :/

bluemon · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:56:58 AM

im definitely using whirlipede. its defenses arent too shabby either. gosh this thing is going to show up everywhere. now we have to look up magic coat users and taunt users. fast aunt is a saving grace in middle cup.

SlimMan · Aug 18th, 2011, 12:58:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

im definitely using whirlipede. its defenses arent too shabby either. gosh this thing is going to show up everywhere. now we have to look up magic coat users and taunt users. fast aunt is a saving grace in middle cup.

Magic Coat: Porygon2
that's it
Taunt: a shitload of things

bluemon · Aug 18th, 2011, 1:00:29 AM

haha actually

porygon2
kadabra
magneton
bayleef
kirlia
igglybuff
togetic

they aall get magic coat.

SlimMan · Aug 18th, 2011, 1:03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

haha actually

porygon2
kadabra
magneton
bayleef
kirlia
igglybuff
togetic

they aall get magic coat.

Gen4 move tutor = no Gen5 moves or DW abilities
but I think kadabra is the only one who cares about that anyway..........

bluemon · Aug 18th, 2011, 1:05:51 AM

none of those pokes benefit from DW EXCEPT KADABRA and even then, its not released yet. and they didnt get notable moves in 5th gen and all the tms they can use so no problem.

R4GEKILL · Aug 18th, 2011, 9:26:08 AM

Derp. I'm not running a spinner or even a spiker, SR setup, or T-Spike setup on my team.
But it's a great idea, and i'm pissed I didn't think of it myself O.O

BurningMan · Aug 18th, 2011, 9:50:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat SlimMan

Gen4 move tutor = no Gen5 moves or DW abilities
but I think kadabra is the only one who cares about that anyway..........

You only can`t use Gen 5 Egg moves. Tms and Level Up moves are okay (unless you learn them after Lvl 50 )

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:18:05 AM	#1
R4GEKILL Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 65 Middle Cup Guy	(MC) Middle Cup Tier Hi, I'm R4GEKILL, but many people know me as the Middle Cup Guy. What is Middle Cup? Middle Cup is a (currently) unofficial tier consisting of a very select range of Pokemon. It is similar to Little Cup except the stipulations are more. It was an extremely ignored metagame created on Smogon in Gen4. This thread was created because I WANT TO BRING IT BACK!!! Between the New Dream World abilities, The lack of any permanent weather starters, and the introduction of the Evolite, I think that Middle Cup could actually be a Serious competitive metagame in gen 5. Where can I play Middle Cup? On Pokemon Online, on the Smogon server, there is a channel called "Unofficial Metagames". You should look there for battles, or just PM/VM anyone that posts on this thread regularly. The Rules of Middle Cup are as follows: -All Pokemon must be Level 50 -All Pokemon must have evolved from something (even if from a Baby) -All Pokemon must be able to evolve into something A LINK TO THE SEREBIIFORUM THREAD (If you're interested in the cases other people have made before I put this on smogon): http://serebiiforums.com/showthread.php?t=536140 A LIST OF ALL THE CURRENT POKES ALLOWED IN MIDDLE CUP: http://veekun.com/dex/pokemon/search?evolution_position=middle *++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++* THREATLIST: (THANKS MELVINI)** The 78 Pokemon in the Tier, Divided by Type Normal – Pidgeotto, Clefairy, Jigglypuff, Chansey, Porygon2, Togetic, Vigoroth, Loudred, Staravia, Herdier, Tranquill Fighting – Machoke, Combusken, Monferno, Pignite, Gurdurr Flying – Pidgeotto, Golbat, Togetic, Skiploom, Staravia, Tranquill Poison – Ivysaur, Kakuna, Nidorina, Nidorino, Golbat, Gloom, Weepinbell, Haunter, Roselia, Whirlipede Ground – Graveler, Rhydon, Piloswine, Pupitar, Marshtomp, Vibrava, Gabite, Palpitoad, Krokorok Rock – Graveler, Rhydon, Pupitar, Lairon, Boldore Bug – Metapod, Kakuna, Silcoon, Cascoon, Swadloon, Whirlipede Ghost – Haunter, Dusclops, Lampent Steel – Magneton, Lairon, Metang, Klang Fire – Charmeleon, Magmar, Quilava, Combusken, Monferno, Pignite, Lampent Water – Wartortle, Poliwhirl, Seadra, Croconaw, Marill, Marshtomp, Lombre, Sealeo, Prinplup, Dewott, Palpitoad Grass – Ivysaur, Gloom, Weepinbell, Bayleef, Skiploom, Grovyle, Lombre, Nuzleaf, Roselia, Grotle, Servine, Swadloon Electric – Pikachu, Magneton, Electabuzz, Flaaffy, Luxio, Eelektrik Psychic – Kadabra, Kirlia, Metang, Gothorita, Duosion Ice – Piloswine, Sealeo, Vanillish Dragon – Dragonair, Vibrava, Shelgon, Gabite, Fraxure, Zweilous Dark – Nuzleaf, Krokorok, Zweilous The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest HP in the Tier Top – Chansey (250), Jigglypuff (115), Rhydon (105), Piloswine (100), Pignite/Sealeo (90), Porygon2/Gurdurr (85), Loudred (84), Vigoroth/Machoke (80) Bottom – Pikachu (35), Kirlia (38), Kadabra/Dusclops/Whirlipede (40), Haunter/Kakuna (45), Grovyle/Magneton/Cascoon/Silcoon/Metapod/Vibrava/Roselia (50) The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Attack in the Tier Top – Rhydon (130), Fraxure (117), Gurdurr/Boldore (105), Piloswine/Machoke (100), Magmar/Shelgon/Graveler (95), Pignite (93) Bottom – Chansey (5), Metapod/Marill (20), Kakuna (25), Kirlia/Kadabra/Cascoon/Silcoon (35), Togetic/Lampent/Duosion (40) The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Defense in the Tier Top – Lairon (140), Dusclops (130), Rhydon (120), Graveler (115), Boldore (105), Shelgon/Metang (100) Whirlipede (99), Klang/Seadra/Magneton (95) Bottom – Chansey (5), Jigglypuff (20), Kadabra/Pikachu (30), Kirlia (35), Nuzleaf (40), Loudred (43), Haunter/Roselia/Grovyle/Krokorok (45) The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Special Attack in the Tier Top – Duosion (125), Magneton/Kadabra (120), Haunter (115), Porygon2 (105), Magmar/Roselia (100), Seadra/Lampent/Electabuzz (95) Bottom – Marill (20), Kakuna/Metapod/Cascoon/Silcoon (25), Chansey/Herdier (35), Staravia/Fraxure/Gurdurr/Whirlipede (40) The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Special Defense in the Tier Top – Dusclops (130), Togetic/Chansey (105), Porygon2 (95), Magmar/Electabuzz/Gothorita/Klang (85), Roselia/Ivysaur/Wartortle/Bayleef/Metang/Swadloon (80) Bottom – Kakuna/Metapod/Cascoon/Silcoon/Jigglypuff (25), Staravia/Pikachu/Boldore/Nuzleaf (40), Tranquill (42) The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Speed in the Tier Top – Electabuzz/Kadabra (105), Grovyle/Haunter (95), Magmar (93), Golbat/Vigoroth/Poliwhirl/Pikachu (90), Seadra (85) Bottom – Cascoon/Silcoon (15), Jigglypuff/Boldore (20), Dusclops (25), Metapod/Duosion (30), Kakuna/Graveler/Clefairy (35) The 10(ish) Highest and Lowest Stat Totals in the Tier Top – Porygon2 (515), Magmar (495), Electabuzz (490), Rhydon (485), Magneton (465), Golbat/Dusclops (455), Chansey/Piloswine (450), Vigoroth/Seadra/Klang (440) Bottom – Cascoon/Silcoon/Metapod/Kakuna (205), Marill (250), Jigglypuff (270), Kirlia (278), Pikachu (300), Clefairy (323), Lombre/Nuzleaf/Vibrava/Staravia/Skiploom (340) __________________ *PLAY MIDDLE CUP:* http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3453293 Last edited by R4GEKILL; Aug 26th, 2011 at 12:19:53 PM.

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:33:05 AM	#4
R4GEKILL Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 65 Middle Cup Guy	I actually tested this on PO with some people from serebii... It was pretty kick ass. It's a psuedostall tier with no auto-weather, and a lot of viable pokes. Nothing is really "Broken" (Other then maybe Kadabra if you don't run chansey or dusclops or a dark type), But It really is fun to use things like amnesia ivysaur, nastypass togetic, Pory2, gurdurr, dusclops, roselia, SpecsDabra, ElectiBand, etc. It's pretty damn fun. It's honestly better then OU for me JUST because of the higher amount of originality behind it, and the MUCH smaller metagame. __________________ *PLAY MIDDLE CUP:* http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3453293

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:36:04 AM	#7
R4GEKILL Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 65 Middle Cup Guy	Honestly, offense is kinda trash in this tier. You're hitting OU defenses with RU offenses. That's why trick and knock off users are key in this tier. Lol. that's also why I win so many matches... __________________ *PLAY MIDDLE CUP:* http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3453293

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:42:15 AM	#10
alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair! Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,357	I recall using sturdy lairon as my SR setter back when I played this. Worked pretty well. Then again, I was using a custap berry. Yeah, so worturtle being the only rapid spinner is awful. __________________ Fifth Gen OU RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...67#post3383567

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:44:03 AM	#13
R4GEKILL Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 65 Middle Cup Guy	Lol. Kadabra and Electabuzz are the fastest in the tier, with base 105. __________________ *PLAY MIDDLE CUP:* http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3453293

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:21:12 AM	#2
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	oh gosh. dusclops and chansey are gunna be SOOOOO BROKEN. not to mention porygon-2.

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:25:46 AM	#3
Percussionist Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 276	I remember this. Somebody want to post some fun sets? Off the top of my head, I remember Machoke acting as a mini-Machamp. Eviolite will go a long way to making him last longer. I'd be willing to try this out if enough people start playing it.

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:33:43 AM	#5
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	i really wanna play. i can see the pseudo legends as some of the top tier sweepers. also combusken. hydreigon'sprevowhosenameiforgot. @eviolite/ adamant/ hustle 252 attack 252 hp 4 defense outrage dragon claw crunch filler fraxure @eviolite adamantx 252 attack 252 speed 4 hp dragon dance dragon claw/sub outrage/sub dig/rock smash dratini @eviolite 252 hp 252 attack 4 speed adamant dragon dance roost waterfall/extremespeed outrage combusken @eviolite adamant 252 attack 252 speed protect/shadow claw swords dance flare blitz sky uppercut with dragons running around, i see klang (i think) and metang as top walls metang impish 252 hp 252 defense meteor mash earthquake/sleep talk toxic/hone claws filler (rest)

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:35:46 AM	#6
Percussionist Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 276	R4GEKILL, could you fix the link in the OP? I'm getting a 404 Error. But I'm interested in trying this out, we should have a match sometime.

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:38:14 AM	#8
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	^agreed. chansey porygon2 and dusclops are all ou viable and used a great deal, too. however pokemon like dragonair arent used. at all. oh and i forgot gabite. another note, weather is not present. could this be the clear skies we always wanted?

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:43:08 AM	#12
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	okay. just look through middle stage pokemons... i see two more viable offensive pokemon. maril.... ehhh. idk. could be tho with choice band. but the next pokemon can rip the whole metagame apart. ready? pikachu. with light ball. 95 speed is kickass in middle cup and has focus punch to handle chansey. i can see pikachu being a top top threat. it also has lightning rod now :) and nasty plot.

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:46:45 AM	#14
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	WAIT GUYS. this just struck me wartortle is the only rapid spinner..... that means toxic spikes+spikes+stealth rock spam. ohmygosh. this is worse than UU. there are seriously no middle stage rapid spinners except wartortle. EDIT: another strategy: trickrrom. with middlecup's horrible speed, i can see durian? (reuniclus prevo... solosis mayeb?) ripping teams to shreds with 125 special attack. plus, its immune to entry hazards.

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:53:06 AM	#16
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	awwww :( i didnt see that. as far as i know, scolipedes prevo has toxic spikes roselia has tosic spikes... ill look up spikes.

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:53:27 AM	#17
alphatron Volt turn in every tier! I'm in despair! Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,357	Roselia gets spikes and tspikes. Thanks budew... __________________ Fifth Gen OU RMT: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthr...67#post3383567

Aug 18th, 2011, 12:56:58 AM	#19
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	im definitely using whirlipede. its defenses arent too shabby either. gosh this thing is going to show up everywhere. now we have to look up magic coat users and taunt users. fast aunt is a saving grace in middle cup.

Aug 18th, 2011, 1:00:29 AM	#21
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	haha actually porygon2 kadabra magneton bayleef kirlia igglybuff togetic they aall get magic coat.

Aug 18th, 2011, 1:05:51 AM	#23
bluemon Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 1,498 ♠ AmoongBro ♠	none of those pokes benefit from DW EXCEPT KADABRA and even then, its not released yet. and they didnt get notable moves in 5th gen and all the tms they can use so no problem.

Aug 18th, 2011, 9:26:08 AM	#24
R4GEKILL Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 65 Middle Cup Guy	Derp. I'm not running a spinner or even a spiker, SR setup, or T-Spike setup on my team. But it's a great idea, and i'm pissed I didn't think of it myself O.O __________________ *PLAY MIDDLE CUP:* http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3453293