Underrated but effective sets in the BW2 overused metagame

[Asterat]

Outline for set

Pokemon (Gender) @ Item
Trait:
EVs:
Nature (+, -)
- move1
- move2
- move3
- move4

Questions:

Why is this set efffective?

What is this pokemon's niche? Niche of the set?

What are teammates for the set?

What are counters/checks to the set?

[Thorhammer]

You list Whirlwind, but in the description, you say you don't have it. Do you actually have a different move in its place?

[Asterat]

Originally Posted by Fat Thorhammer

You list Whirlwind, but in the description, you say you don't have it. Do you actually have a different move in its place?

I address the suspected curiosity people by explaining why I do not have whirlwind, but I do not list my skarmory as having it. It has Spikes, Brave Bird, Roost, and Taunt

[Shouting]

If physical Skarmory can barely handle Haxorus out of rain, I really don't honestly believe that Specially Defensive versions can handle Haxorus too. Although I'd probably much rather have Bronzong or Jirachi coming in on Hurricanes, I guess Skarmory makes up for it in reliable recovery in roost.

I find Substitute Hydregion to be very useful right now. It hits popular cores for Super Effective like Amoongus, Slowbro (I think he's 2HKO'd), Heatran, and hits Tyranitar and Blissey harder now, if you want to use Superpower that is. You can use Fire Blast in sun and Surf in rain, but if you're not using Fire Blast you might have problems with Amoongus.

[Scarfwynaut]

Probably one of the more uncommon things I use, I honestly can't believe its uncommon considering how well it works, special Forretress with pain split:



Forretress (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 248 HP / 204 Def / 56 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Pain Split
- Stealth Rock / Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Hidden Power [Ice]

I've been using this since like April I think. This Forretress is just amazing, by far the most reliable and sturdy rapid spinner in the tier, and that's all pain split. Pain split means Skarmory and Forretress can not beat it unless they get really lucky or they are burned (in which case both go down). I have litterally PP stalled those buggers to death, so if you see me in battle don't tempt me, will waste one hour of your life if you don't switch.
Hidden power ice makes it so I can beat Landorus and Gliscor, it allow allows you to revenge / kill various dragons locked into outrage. Spikes or stealth rocks depending on what I need. A very effective set, its been a staple on almost all my teams. The evs are all in defense to take outrages and earthquakes better, outside of the 56 special attack evs which guarantee a lot of 2HKOs with HP ice.

[NoUserName]

Skarmory isn't an absolute counter of Tornadus, and for instance his Therian forme, in rain-less teams because some Tornadus carry Heat Wave. So, it should be stood out that this sets should not be used in a weather team if it isn't rain.

About Forretress, HP Ice is very useful, true, I was surprised the other day when I was using a Gliscor against a Forry thinking it would be a free Substitute and it used HP Ice causing a great damage.

A question about the set, why carrying a -Spd nature instead of -At nature?

[bubbly]

My current favourite core is Abomasnow + Blissey + Kyurem. Basically trashes rain offense; Abomasnow revenges all the Therians / Dragons, Blissey walls them. Kyurem sets up a Substitute against Tentacruel / Amoonguss / Politoed etc incredibly easily; and most current teams don't have a counter to it (SpDef Jirachi gets 2HKO'd by Earth Power). Obviously needs support, such as Heatran, Gliscor, Jellicent etc, to cover weaknesses.

[Saitsuofleaves]

Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD
Bold Nature: (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Psychic
- Focus Blast

Good ole' trusty Reuniclus. Bulky and a life saver. Still a good thing when people continue to underestimate it. Psychic still hits like a truck and a half. Cleans like no other short of new and improved MoxieMence. Saved my ass more times than I can count.

[Scarfwynaut]

Originally Posted by Fat NoUserName

A question about the set, why carrying a -Spd nature instead of -At nature?

Very good question, the answer is rather odd. At first I did run a -attack nature for the less confusion damage, but I soon realized that Ferrothorn players were really, really persistant in keeping up leech seed, I would rapid spin it away first, and they would proceed to leech seed me, for less leech seed recovery for them. A -speed nature and even -speed ivs are useful to rapid spin after they move to get rid of leech seed and hazards, leaving the field clear at the end of the turn. Although, sometimes I just lose that tiny battle anyway because Forry needs atleast 2 speed ivs to maintain 70 HP ice and they are on the same speed tier. -speed also lets me run gyroball or earthquake if I don't need stealth rock or spikes, if I feel like it (although even I don't I usually duel hazard anyway to get rocks up always).

Edit: lol Ferrothon is much, much slower, it has nothing to do with the ivs, it still even outslows, I have no fucking idea how ive been underspeeding them... O.o

[ThePillsburyDoughBoy]

Oh come on people it was only the second page

Defensive Deoxys-D is underatted, one of the only pokes that can be a secondary check to Keldeo. Spikes can be used to wear stuff down on stall and offense alike.

[Scarfwynaut]

I think this pertains more to underated sets rather than pokemon man. Although the title is misleading...

[mrb]

An underrated pokemon period right now is Kingdra. With the prevalence of rain offense, Kingdra can easily outspeed every threat on a rain team. In fact, it outspeeds every common scarfer in the tier under the rain. Right now, I've been using a Choice Specs set.


Kingdra @ Choice Specs
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Fire]

The moveset is pretty simple. Draco Meteor does what Kingdra is meant for: wallbreaking. The usual switch in into a Kingdra is a bulky water like Slowbro, expecting a standard DD set. Draco Meteor OHKOs or 2HKOs all these bulky waters. Dragon Pulse is a more reliable STAB if Kingdra wishes to clean up teams after being weakened. Of course, Kingdra needs to deal with bulky steels like Jirachi or Heatran, so Hydro Pump is chosen as the secondary STAB. Finally, Kingdra's STABs leave it walled by Ferrothorn, which is dealt with Hidden Power [Fire]. It also lets Kingdra function better outside of rain.

For the EVs, Kingdra is given a Modest nature and max Special Attack to hit as hard as possible. 220 Speed EVs allows Kingdra to outspeed Scarf Terrakion under the rain. The rest of the EVs are dumped into HP, allowing Kingdra to tank hits and switch easily into most Politoed sets.

[bluemon]

Isnt this a carbon copy of the creative movesets thread?

anyways,

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

Landorus @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
Nature: Modest
4 Def / 252 Sp.atk / 252 Spd
-Rock Polish
-Earth Power
-Psychic
-Hp Ice

This set has won me countless games and it is so anti meta yet so good. It can pull its weight against all weathers, and it's bulk an power and speed is great.
Against rain, STAB earth power 2hkoes everything and psychic maims Keldeo. Against sand, it's typing is great, and it kills everything with all its moves. Hp ice for dragons and gliscor and other landoruses... Earthpower for the rest. Against sun teams, it can definitely counter sweep stuff like venusaur, and earth power + psychic kills all those grass types like venusaur and amoonguss. EP kills fire types like Heatran as well

However, the best thing about this set is that it's unknown. No one sees a special set coming. I can set up all day while rotom will-o-wisps me. Then I 2hko with psychic. Same with amoonguss and slowbro and Heatran. This set is just so great.

[Scarfwynaut]

Originally Posted by Fat bluemon

Isnt this a carbon copy of the creative movesets thread?

No not exactly, there may be nothing creative at all about these movesets, infact they may already be on site but just uncommon like spD skarm with taunt. Note my special Forretress example, a good 10% of Forry players do use hidden power ice, leaving it uncommon but not creative.

[Bribery]

I've been liking specially defensive Skarmory as well. I use Drill Peck over Taunt so that it can check Breloom without killing itself. I also prefer using Impish with the EV spread 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 SDef. It provides more stat points overall than the Careful spread and allows Skarmory to check physical threats a bit easier.


Kingdra has also been working well for me given how popular Rain teams are. The standard ChestoRest set works well, but I also love the Rain Dance set:

Kingdra @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SAtk / 220 Spd
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse

All it needs is 1 turn of setup to wreck havoc. Works well against any weather team, but especially rain teams since you don't need to setup with Rain Dance. With Swift Swim active, it outspeeds everything up to Scarf Terrakion. Pairs well with Magnezone to get rid of Ferrothorn.

[casey90]

I've been using Kyurem on my rain team, he has wonderful with it's abusers in that he can easily defeat most of the pesky Grass and electric types of the tier oddly enough, by virtue of his typing (never thought I'd give that typing any credit...) I prefer to use a very deadly Sub-Roost set. Pressure, combined with his offensive presence make Kyurem VERY scary to let get behind a sub. With Toxic spikes support he's only truly walled by Jirachi, who still takes a 3hko from earth power assuming specially defensive Other things can either be easily stalled out, like forretress and ferrorthorn, as they only get to use gyro ball 4 times due to pressure, which means you can just sub each time then roost back to full health while being nearly untouchable from them. 390 special attack with Ice/Ground coverage is just sexy, and the main pokemon who walls these typings in OU happens to be walled by you in return (Rotom-W). Here' the set...

Kyurem@ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Nature: Modest (+Sp. Att. - Att.)
56 HP , 236 Sp. Att. , 216 Speed
~Substitute
~Roost
~Ice Beam
~Earth Power

56 Hp gives me 405 Hp, odd HP for Rocks and 101 HP subs. 216 Speed outspeeds Adamant Luke, Modest nature and the Ev's give max power which is needed due to lack of boosting item. As I said before Toxic spikes are HIGHLY recommended as they drop every Bulky Water down to nothing as you easily stall them out. Fun fact even though Hydra-rest Vappy walls you, you can stall it out of all offensive PP easily and still kill it with some SP. Def. drops from Earth power

[Rayquaza_]

If you're concerned about Rotom-W you could use Dragon Pulse instead of Ice Beam.
Dragon/Ground is only resisted by Skarmory, who is just going to Whirlwind you anyway even if you had Ice Beam.

Ice Beam is overall better though, since the current metagame is full of ice-weak pokemon.

[CrackinSkulls]

Good ol' Toxicroak will be a boss in the new meta. It can sub up in the face of amoongus, wall keldeo and troll in the rain. any team lacking a psychic, ground or flying type (which is surprisingly common will be singlehandedly 6-0'd by this fighting posion frog thing... Even though Tornadus can threaten it a +1 Sucker Punch is a clean 2HKO. anyway herei s the set...

Toxicroak (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Dry Skin
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Sucker Punch
- Drain Punch

[shrang]

I know I've posted this set before, but I love it.

Moltres @ Sharp Beak / Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Nature: Modest / Timid
- Substitute
- Roost
- Hurricane
- Fire Blast

Plays a lot like Rain Volc, but is a bulkier version which is more of an tank rather than a sweeper. Hurricane is really strong in the rain, while Substitute and Roost helps Moltres stall out many threats with Pressure, especially if you have Toxic Spikes up. Fire Blast may seem out of place due to the rain, but 125 SpA with STAB lets you fry most Steel-types that resist Hurricane anyway. It's also excellent to spam in the sun if that ever goes up. Basically, get in on a free switch-in (like Ferrothorn), set up a Sub, then either kill something or stall them out with SubRoost.

[TrogdorTEST]

In my opinion, a specially defensive, toxic spikes/spiking Roserade has a lot of utility in the current metagame.

Roserade @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Nature: Calm
- Toxic Spikes/ Spikes
- Sleep Powder/ Stun Spore
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power Fire/ Rest

In the current rain based metagame, Roserade can hold its own as a support pokemon, working in a similair fashion as Amoonguss. With an identical ev spread Amoonguss may have greater bulk, but Roserade has the ability to lay down Toxic Spikes or Spikes to support the team better. Generally Sleep Powder is preffered over Stun Spore, but it is incompatible with Toxic Spikes, so that is something to keep in mind. Roserade also has acess to Natural Cure, and can use Rest to its advantage, being able to heal itself completely, switch out, then come in back at full health to tank the elecctric and water attacks that now plague the tier (*cough* thundurus-t *cough* keldeo).

[preliator]

I tried that Forretress and it did wonders!

It was a nice counter to most Gliscor cuz most opponents thought I switched it in just to setup Rocks or Spikes... insteed hitting them with HP Ice for a-shit-lot of damage (most Gliscor users were trying to setup on me with SD but than got 2HKO'ed by HP Ice).

Dragons like Dragonite & Mence were also trying to setup DD on me but got destroyed by HP Ice... same for the Earth Kami Landorus.

All of the listed Mon's are 2HKO'ed,exkeept Dragonite at full HP thx to Multiscale, but its more offensive sets are allways 2HKO'ed after SR Dmg - 252 HP 252 SDef Carefull Nite isnt...it's just 3-4HKO'ed after SR Dmg...

Pain Split did a nice job as well - annoying most stallish Mon's and specialy Chansey & Blissey (unless Bliss has Flamethrower).

In my opinion this set should be listed as an competetive set in the OU metagame to Forrestress.

[Scarfwynaut]

Originally Posted by Fat preliator

I tried that Forretress and it did wonders!

It was a nice counter to most Gliscor cuz most opponents thought I switched it in just to setup Rocks or Spikes... insteed hitting them with HP Ice for a-shit-lot of damage (most Gliscor users were trying to setup on me with SD but than got 2HKO'ed by HP Ice).

Dragons like Dragonite & Mence were also trying to setup DD on me but got destroyed by HP Ice... same for the Earth Kami Landorus.

All of the listed Mon's are 2HKO'ed,exkeept Dragonite at full HP thx to Multiscale, but its more offensive sets are allways 2HKO'ed after SR Dmg - 252 HP 252 SDef Carefull Nite isnt...it's just 3-4HKO'ed after SR Dmg...

Pain Split did a nice job as well - annoying most stallish Mon's and specialy Chansey & Blissey (unless Bliss has Flamethrower).

In my opinion this set should be listed as an competetive set in the OU metagame to Forrestress.

Thanks man, I knew I wasn't insane ;). Don't give me all the credit, though I think I ripped the set of of Delko. When C&C opens shop again I definitely consider writing a set for it.

[preliator]

Originally Posted by Fat Scarfwynaut

Thanks man, I knew I wasn't insane ;). Don't give me all the credit, though I think I ripped the set of of Delko. When C&C opens shop again I definitely consider writing a set for it.

Nope, ur not insame :)
Btw... I removed once Rocks,gave them to another Mon, add EQ cuz Heatran often switched in...


Detailed Result:
0 Atk Forretress Earthquake vs 4 HP/0 Def Heatran: 77,78% - 92,59%
Entry hazards damage: 40
After entry hazards: 292 - 340 (90,12% - 104,94%)
37,5% chance to OHKO

Worked out nice as well :)))

[Anartya]

I have had much better success with this Blissey than the Seismic Toss variants:

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/ 4 SpA / 252 Def
Nature: Bold/Calm
- Aromatherapy/Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast/Flamethrower
- Softboiled

Normally Blissey would have Seismic Toss and one or no other coverage move like Ice Beam or Flamethrower. But I have found Seismic Toss to just be set up bait for Salamence/Scizor depending on the coverage move that it lacks. I find myself switching much more often than needed. With both Ice Beam and Fire Blast, I find myself luring Scizor switches like no tomorrow, each one OHKOed/ 2HKOed (96.8% - 114.3%) by a easily predicted Fire Blast (guaranteed OHKO for standard CB Scizor in Stealth Rock with Fire Blast), and providing much better momentum. With Ice Beam and Fire Blast, some of OUs most common Blissey set ups do not hinder your momentum. To list a couple: Salamence, Scizor, Gliscor, Dragonite, Forretress, Donphan, Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Landorus, Tornadus, Thundurus, Hydreigon, Breloom, Dugtrio, Lucario, Magnezone, Metagross. I'm not saying at all that Blissey can beat all of these one-on-one (some of them it can), but I'm saying that Ice Beam and Fire Blast have much better coverage and makes opponents more wary of setting up on Blissey than Seismic Toss could ever do. One example might be Thundurus. Without Ice Beam, he would set up all over you, and provided that you did have Ice Beam (2HKO), which after the first hit would simply force the opponent to swap in his Scizor, and now you have to switch loosing the momentum. Where as if you had Fire Blast, a really easily predicted Scizor switch in would allow for an easy OHKO or 2HKO on the switch. Now you might still have to switch, but now your priority attackers or your pursuit Scizor can easily trap and give you the momentum. In addition this heavily differentiates Blissey from Evolite Chansey, which would be set up bait to all of the aforementioned mons and cannot even 2HKO anything with its garbage Special attack. To conclude, I am only saying that Ice Beam and Fire Blast/Flamethrower are much more useful on the current OU threats, do much more damage than standard Seismic Toss and make them wary of setting up on Blissey.

EDIT: As ScarfWynaut points out, Calm nature might be better suited for more special bulk, against the common hard hitting special mons around in today's metagame. And the drop in defense isn't too significant. I usually need Aromatherapy support, and tend to have a Politoed or Volcarona counter/check, but if you don't need Aromatherapy, it can be slashed for Toxic to deal with special threats.

[Scarfwynaut]

I have 2 issues with that Blissey, first Blissey needs toxic in this metagame, unless you have Heatran in the wings, Blissey is probably going to be your answer for Volcarona. Toxic is very useful for crippling switch in also. Duel attacking Blissey is alright though, I would just toxic > aromatherapy easily though.

Also that defensive spread is just flat out inefficient, 252 HP / 252 Def Calm takes special hits much, much better, and the physical bulk isn't noticeable:

252 HP / 252 Def Calm vs CB Scizor Pursuit: 36.41 - 42.99%
252 HP / 252 Def Bold vs CB Scizor Pursuit: 39.77 - 46.91%

252 HP / 252 Def Bold vs Specs Politoed Hydropump: 36.69 - 43.41% -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 HP / 252 Def Bold vs Specs Politoed Hydropump: 40.47 - 47.89% -- 8.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Blissey only needs to take pursuits physically, my spread still does that, Blissey needs its special defense more.