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Discussion in 'BW OU' started by asterat, Jun 27, 2012.
I think stealth rock deserves a mention over Hp ice because Hp ice doesn't do anything
Beats down gliscor, actually, but it is still pretty fail. Still, why quick attack? That really doesn't make much sense-no one really uses sashed leads any longer, so something like x-scissor or even SD/SR makes more sense.
Terrakion's movepool is outright unneeded. It only needs stone edge and close combat for coverage and thats it. X-scissor does have use to revenge Celebi without worring about stone edge missing, and to hit Claydol. When I use Terrakion I personally prefer using rock slide as an extra move to again not worry about rock slide missing if I revenge.
Flame charge heatran:
Heatran(M) @ air baloon
- flame charge, fire blast, earth power, hidden power [ice]
This set is extremely dangerous. Just switch in safely on a locked opponent. Use flame charge as the opponent switches to the counter. Now you have a scarf and you can switch moves. It has saved me many teams.
I have this very annoying shit that gets only walled ghosts:
Ev's: 100hp 156 spa 252 spe
I know that Keldoe's below average defenses aren't ideal for a restalk set but once i eliminate the ghosts using a ghostbuster named pursuit, i use rest to cure off al the damage and status, after enough boosts, this thing can 3hko deoxys-D!!! The elementt of surprise surprised many players. This may look like a gimmick but it does work!!
Why not Naive, Hasty, Rash, or Mild? Also, you might want to invest some EVs into SpA if you want HP ice.
hidden power ice does jack even with massive investment in spA. So yeah change that for something more useful
The standard OU Porygon2 set is so underused, yet it is so freaking scary:
~ Discharge / Thunderbolt
~ Ice Beam
~ Toxic / Thunder Wave
Evs:252 HP / 184 Def / 72 SpD
This THING is so scary. It may look like an okay wall, but in reality, let's face it. A 252 Atk Choice Band Groudon has a very low chance (As in about 11%) to 2HKO the Porygon2 using STAB Earthquake, not accounting in crits, or boosts. Modest Choice Specs Kyogre will NEVER OHKO this Porygon2, in the rain, with 252 SpA Evs, using STAB Surf. That is just monstrous. Porygon2 should be banned.
This looks like it has a lot of potential. What is the ev spread for?
Unfortunately, it is ruined by toxic and becomes set up bait too often.
Well, most walls have similar problems. The best thing about Porygon2 is it's versatility thanks to Trace. This is seriously one of my favourite abilities in the game. Here's some scenarios: You switch into Scarfrachi, pick up Serene Grace for an 80% Paralysation chance on Discharge. Become immune to Heatran Fire Blasts with Flash Fire. Even if you do get Toxiced, you can switch into a Celebi and heal it off with Natural Cure. Seriously, Trace is a fantastic ability. Another great thing is that Porygon2 has Base 105 Special Attack, so its attacks are fairly strong even uninvested. And of course it's bulky as hell and gets reliable healing in Recover too. I can definitely vouch for Porygon2, underestimate it at your peril.
I agree. Unlike most walls, he can actually tank hits very well, yet still retaliate hard off that 105 Base Sp. Attack. Porygon2 has an awesome ability in the form of Trace, which for example lets him go into something like Slowbro, Amoonguss of Mienshao, copy their regenerator ability, then switch out and regain some health. Or you can switch into a Thundurus and heal yourself off it's thunderbolt by copying it's volt absorb. The possibilities are endless. One of my favorite moments while playing pokemon was freezing a togekiss with ice beam by copying serene grace off it, then paralyzing it with discharge right after it thawed out.
And Ames, yes, it is crippled by status and such, but so are most walls. Also, it has an above average base 105 Sp.Attack that can more than let it work as a bulky special sweeper. It can deal a lot of damage if you just use an EV Spread of 252 HP/ 252 Sp.Atk/4 Sp.Def, while still tanking many hits VERY well.
The worst thing ever happens yesterday ... With my Poison Heal Gliscar, I toxiced a Politaod who switch on Porygon2 trace ... With Eviolite + Poison Heal + Recover, that wall was impossible for me !:(
Porygon 2 is pretty beastly as a wall. The high SpA is what makes is to awesome. Unlike Chansey, who just sits there. (Although Wish and Natural Cure are nice for a wall). Porygon 2 loves Heal Bell support. XD. Its speed is also a bit low. I know its a wall, but it means recover will almost always go after it gets hit.
ability: lightning rod/ static
@focus sash/lum berry
EVs: 4hp 252sp.atk 252speed
the set works like a charm. use thunderwave to paralyze a foe that you know that wont attack then encore so it locked in that move of they used like stealthrock, toxic, protect etc.. then use t-wave again to paralyze their switch-in. lightning rod helps you stay alive longer while static paralyze ground types or other foes that have l.rod or voltabsorb.
Yes, Porygon2 does have an abysmal speed stat, he can fit as a good partner to TR Reuniclus, because they can both utilize TR very well. If the Reuniclus is a physically defensive variant, then that can work with a more specially defensive oriented Porygon2. The one thing that stood out to me about Porygon2 was it's playstyle. It is pretty much what you call the definition of Bulky Offense(My favorite playstyle) gone way too far. It can even tank hits from Cbed/CSpecsed Ubers like Rayquaza and Reshiram. It can also work as a semi sweeper off it's workable base 105 Sp.Attack, and one it's main niches is that it gets two abilities that are good.(I only realized one.) People often use Trace to copy the opponent's ability, making it much easier to switch your Porygon2 in on something like Gliscor using Toxic, or a Choice Scarf Heatran using Fire Blast. However, when it is semi-sweeping, it can make use of one of it's other abilities, Analytic. Analytic pretty much gives a life orb boost(without the recoil, of course)to the pokemon who has Analytic if they move last. This can be used in conjunction with eviolite, Porygon2's abysmal speed, and his pretty good movepool to make a bulky sweeper that can take hits and dish them back out. This proves that Porygon2 can be a wall yet not be set-up bait.
Heatran@Expert Belt/life orb
4 hp/252 spa/252 spe
hidden power ice
good set this meta. good against most rain teams, even with the fire attacks cripple, it's hard for rain teams have a save switch at all after toed is dead. Hp ice is for dragons and therians, flamethrower/fire blast hits forretress, ferrothorn, scizor and amonguss, earth power hits tentacruel and other mons. it would be better if heatran had a grass attack to hit politoed, keldeo and gastrodon, but either way, it's still a good set.
Been using this Latias on my rain team to great effect as a catch-all Fighting type killer and last resort option to Thundy-Ts and Torn-Ts:
Latias @ Leftovers
108 HP / 148 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Draco Meteor
Basically LO Tank Latias, but with more speed and staying power. Draco still hits like a ton of bricks, but you can generally get by without using it, especially against rain teams lacking Dragonite or Haxorus. Surf gets boosted by rain and takes out annoying stuff like Heatran, Hippowdon, and Forretress. You can even stay in to 2HKO CB Scizor with Surf if it tries to Pursuit you and Lati still has really good health. Psyshock makes it tick though. Got issues with Keldeo? Latias can stomach a +1 Hydro Pump in the rain, outspeed, and KO. Techniloom threatening a Mach Punch sweep? Psyshock it. Vrizion plowing through the rest of your rain team? You guessed it, Psyshock it out of the match. Pretty much name any Fighting type and Psyshock will either kill it, or do severe damage to it. Recover lets Latias hang around and possibly get its own sweep going. Obviously, it has major issues with Ferrothorn, but a strong Fighting type like Terrakion, Breloom, or Keldeo can remedy this. It can work in other weathers, but this Latias loves the rain above all else for the pseudo-triple STAB it runs in rain. Running this with a wallbreaker like Specs Keldeo or Banded Haxorus isn't a bad idea either.
Ludicolo @ Life Orb
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
- Giga Drain
- Hydro Pump/Surf
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]/Rain Dance/Focus Blast/Hidden Power [Fighting]
Good ol' Ludicolo. He has a lot of fun trolling rain, but that is the obvious part. He enjoys hitting anything slower than it with STAB Hydropumps. Bulky waters cower in fear from the mighty Giga drain. Scizor kis easily OHKO'd by either rain boosted hydropump or non rain hp fire. The mighty dragon types in the tier hate getting smacked by that ice beam. In rain provided by the opponents team is where ludicolo shines (srsly making your own rain is lame) There are very few pokes that can switch into him in the rain mainly farrothorn, latias, and toxicroak (FU toxicroak *forever weak to toxicroak).
Ludicolo can essentially counter all weather If rain dance is chosen, but with it ferrothorn is an even bigger issue than he already was,
Ludicolo is interesting, but it's not that great of a weather counter (except for Rain, obviously). For one, Drought teams wreck it, taking laughable damage from your Water moves in Sun. Venusaur and Sawsbuck, the two most prominent Chlorophyll users, outspeed and OHKO with Sludge Bomb and do 88%-104% with Return respectively.
Sand teams are also an issue. Tyranitar can easily shrug off Ludicolo's base 90 Special Attack thanks to the SandStorm boost and can do good damage with Crunch. This basically forces you to use Focus Blast to really threaten him (compounding your problems with Sun). Ludicolo also has problems taking on common Sand threats such as Landorus (outspeeds and escapes with a SE U-Turn), Scizor (can shrug off Focus Blast and OHKO with U-Turn), and Jirachi (laughs at everything you can throw at it and proceeds to FlinchHax you to death)
He does slightly better against Hail, threatening Ice types with Focus Blast (or in Mamoswine's case Hydro Pump) but still doesn't have the bulk to take hits from the likes of Kyurem.
As you mentioned, he can run Rain Dance to rectify these problems. However, he needs a turn to set it up, and his bulk doesn't make that very viable, especially since the opponent can just switch in their weather starter to undo your hard work.
For me though, the real problem is that Kingdra just does everything Ludicolo does better. It has a 4x resist to Fire instead of neutrality, can actually do damage to Tyranitar since it can use physical moves, can wreck Kyurem with Outrage or Draco Meteor, has more bulk, and can set up Dragon Dances to sweep weatherless teams, while Ludicolo's base 90 SpA isn't scaring much, even in Rain. Is there something I'm missing? (it's possible; it's 1:00 AM right now :p)
Be Very Scared
Salamence @ Choice Band
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SAtk
- Fire Blast
- Dragon Claw
This thing is a monster. Meet Banded Salamence, one of the hardest Pokemon to switch into in the OU tier. When most people see a Choiced Salamence, they expect Salamence to be Scarfed, only to be smashed :D What makes Choice Band Mence so great is that the opponent is dissuaded from switching into death fodder. Usually people fodder a Pokemon against a CB'er to make sure a wall gets in at full health, but Moxie prevents that situation. This is useful because Banders ussually try to soften up a Poke for their fellow sweeper and this makes sure that wearing down is much more targeted.
Actually that really isn't what makes Salamence a great bander. I didn't know before, but Moxie stacks on top of the CB boost. So after one kill Mence is reaching 910 attack. At that level of power, you are doing 42%-50% to physically defensive Skarmory. Pray that he doesn't get the 3 turn Outrage, because you will have very few ways to deal with a 1214 attack Salamence haha! You have to be very careful around Banded Mence or he will just overwhelm your team with power. Luckily, no one uses it except for me haha
IMO Banded Mence X100 better than Haxorus. In exchange for 27 less base power and an SR weakness, you have the potential to raise your attack by +1, the ability to wreck both Skarmory and Ferrothorn, and be faster.
edit: Here is another guy that I can finally play with.
Gengar (M) @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Shadow Ball
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
Don't laugh, this guy is a serious revenge killer. With both a decrease of Tyranitar and Scizor, Gengar is having a field day! He can pretty much revenge kill against anything due to its awesome coverage and its ability to outspeed pretty much everything. Oh shit a +2 Adamant Dragonite, better whip my Gengar for the easy revenge kill. Same goes for Gyarados but with Thunderbolt (not many use max speed gyarados) Last man standing? Pick your coverage move of choice to clean up (not FB). Shadow Ball is really effective at doing this since it hits a lot of targets neutrally, but with STAB. IMO he is better than Latios because of the sheer surprise factor, no one expects the Scarf Gengar for the revenge kill. He has a lot of coverage that Scarf Latios lacks too. Scarf Gengar is a really nice touch when everything is so fast and powerful (looking at you big bird). There are some more gimmicky options you can try, like Foul Play and Destiny Bond, but this coverage is pretty much gives it the ability to revenge everything.
If you got the cajones, you can try to spin block Starmie and hit them with a Shadow Ball/Thunderbolt. I guarantee you they won't see it coming ^^
I do like the idea of this set and it has worked for me a couple of times but unfortunately, Heatran is generally unable to kill the counter pokemon due to his coverage attacks. So many times I have used flame charge only to hit a water poke that he can't touch and as a result do much less damage than an overheat or fireblast before being forced out anyway.
It can be effective once such obvious walls have been dealt with though (as can everything lol).
EDIT: Didn't realise Moxie stacked with CB. I have to try that haha (to above poster).
Another thing to note on Band Salamence (and Scarf for that matter I guess) is the fact that it can also run Aqua Tail (would obviously replace Fire Blast) which allows it to be effective on rain teams as well.
Espeon @ Leftovers
Trait: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SpAtt / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Hidden Power Ice
I run this set on my current Sun team and it's great for catching players on the hop with Magic Bounced Spores. You can then Psyshock for the KO or predict your opponents next move and go for the HP Ice to 2HKO on Breloom or knock a chunk off that Dragon-mon that came to save Brelooms bacon then outspeed them on the next turn (barring Scarfs and you speed-tie with Timid Latios).
The fact that only 1 opponent out of 10 will use an offensive move on an obvious hazard setter as I switch in my Espeon shows how under-rated Magic Bounce as an ability actually is, and although frail Espeon's high speed and EXCELENT 130 Base Special Attack has allowed me to knock holes in things that weren't expecting it from the cute little cat-fox thing.
The set is walled by steels no-end but this is why I run it on my Sun team.
Expert Belt Hippowdon is great in wifi, it's really strong.