Celebi (Analysis) QC 3/3

yee · Sep 20th, 2012, 7:57:56 PM

Since the analysis was chosen to be reassigned I've elected to write it. Im c/ping Ojama's skelly for now and I'll have it written up by next Thursday.

[Overview]

Great Base Stats all around
Quite good typing especially the Grass Typing
Awesome Ability
Fantastic Movepool
Can be used as a Defensive Pokemon (specially or physically) and an Offensive Pokemon
Blocks some new threats like Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Sheer Force Landorus
Good support options
Access to Nasty Plot
U-Turn weak
Pursuit weak
Has a small place in Volturn
Tornadus-T weak

name: Defensive
move 1: Giga Drain
move 2: Recover
move 3: U-Turn
move 4: Perish Song / Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 244 SpD / 20 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Good check to many new offensive threats such as Keldeo, Thundurus-T and Sheer Force Landorus.
Giga Drain is a STAB that gives you recovery and makes you not Taunt bait
Perish Song gives Celebi a small niche to stop set up sweepers such as Reuniclus, Latias and SubDDNite
Recover gives you life
U-turn allows Celebi to build momentum while still being a defensive Pokemon
HP Fire screws over Ferrothorn and Scizor
Watchout though, HP Fire can't OHKO Scizor, you'll need a few damage on it before (Stealth Rock + U-Turn should be enough)
Spread stops a 2HKO from Thundurus-T's LO Modest HP Ice
20 Spe for Magnezone
Rest in HP and SpD because you need as much SpD as possible to handle Latios and Thundurus-T
Lefties is your only item choice
A Physically Defensive Set is also possible with a Bold Nature.

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
Run more or max defense if your hate physics walls, the spread is pretty flexable
Natural Cure helps a lot here
Only use Stealth Rock if your team has no other user
you can use Thunder Wave or even Psychic for the last slot
Heal Bell
Ferrothorn and Scizor screw you over without HP Fire so use something like Heatran, Skarmory or even Forretress.
Works well with Entry Hazards since it has U-Turn
Tentacruel is an interesting partner in Rain : it spins and sets up Toxic Spikes
A Sassy Nature could be used there if you would like to hit a bit harder with U-Turn (against another Celebi for example). Evs in Speed would go in SpD / Def.
Scarf Tyranitar is an amazing partner with U-Turn because Celebi attracts Lati@s, Gengar and traps them
Gliscor is a good teammate since it handles Terrakion, Scizor and Stall Heatran very well
Gastrodon and Heatran work well with Celebi because both can check quite well Tornadus-T and Genesect
Skarmory counters Scizor and checks Terrakion + it can Spikes which is great against U-Turn users such as Genesect and Scizor

[SET]
name: Nasty Plot
move 1: Nasty Plot
move 2: Giga Drain
move 3: Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire
move 4: Psychic / Recover / Hidden Power Ice
nature: Timid
item : Leftovers / Life Orb
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Arguably the best pure offensive set Celebi can run
NP boosts your SpA, allowing the sweep
Giga Drain is a solid STAB and restores your health
HP Fire because fuck you Steels
Earth Power because fuck you Heatran
Psychic because fuck you genies and Dragonite
Recover because fuck you things that won't let Celebi restore health with Giga Drain
Spread changed to be much more offensive, now you're not outsped by everything
Spread can be changed to be more defensive (use Recover / HP Fire in this case with a Modest Nature).
Hidden Power Ice to hit Dragonite, Hydreigon, Landorus, Tornadus-T etc

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
Bulkier spread of 220 HP / 180 SpA / 96 Spe but a lot is faster
no matter what you're always not gonna have coverage on something so there are good other moves
Baton Pass
Scarf Terrakion is still a good teammate here to get rid of genies and fast stuff and special walls (Blissey & Chansey) he also takes the Dark-type attacks Celebi hates
Tentacruel has good synergy and can spin away hazards (only in Rain)
Heatran for the Scizor weakness, Magnezone can fit here as well
Scarf Tyranitar for Lati@s and Gengar
Jirachi works well with Wish and it can also handle Tornadus-T, Genesect, Lati@s and Gengar
Leaf Storm can be used over Giga Drain for more power

[SET]
name: Offensive
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Earth Power / Psychic
move 4: U-turn / Recover / Thunder Wave
item: Life Orb
nature: Timid / Modest
evs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Leaf Storm is an awesomely powerful STAB move to be used like DM would be on a Dragon
HP Fire is to take out Steels not named Heatran
Earth Power is for Steels named Heatran
Psychic is a reliable STAB move without the -2 SpA effect
U-turn is a good scouting move
Thunder Wave gives Celebi some support options
Recover is awesome and heals off the LO recoil
Life Orb is great for Celebi (who doesn't have the greatest SpA)
I kept the EV spread because I honestly couldn't think of a better one

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
Lefties lets you live longer
Giga Drain is a more reliable STAB move
use Scarf Terrakion with this, trust me
Deoxys-D for Hazards
Watch out for Heatran if you don't carry Earth Power
HP Ice really won't do much to 2x Dragons, so don't overestimate it
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe w/ Timid
Bulkier spread running 36 Spe, 252 SpA, 220 Spe (use Thunder Wave in this case)
Stealth Rock is an option over U-Turn or Earth Power
Scarf Tyranitar

[SET]
name: Baton Pass
move 1: Baton Pass
move 2: Calm Mind / Nasty Plot
move 3: Giga Drain
move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Fire
item: Leftovers
nature: Calm
evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Calm Mind > Nasty Plot, since it is much easier to pass CM boosts than NP boosts.
101 HP Sub makes Chansey / Blissey set-up fodder and protects the CM recipient on the turn of Baton Pass
Substitute also blocks Dragon Tail - Careful Dragonite's Dragon Tail does not break Celebi's Substitute. After 3 CMs, not even Rain Tank's Hurricane would break Celebi's Substitute most of the time.
Specially Defensive spread makes setting up CMs on special sweepers much easier.
HP Fire can be used over Substitute to take out Skarmory before it can phaze Celebi's special attack boosts.
Many Rain Pokemon are set-up fodder for Celebi

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
Thunder Wave gives it 25% fp chance of BP success against phazers, and it's a generally good utility move.
Earth Power to dispatch Heatran, which may phaze Celebi
84 SpA to OHKO specially defensive Heatran with a +2 Earth Power or a physically defensive Skarmory with a +2 HP Fire
72 Spe to beat Modest Heatran to the punch.
Swords Dance & Seed Bomb / Zen Headbutt to pass Atk boosts
Magic Coat / Espeon to cockblock phazers
Recover to keep it healthy
Rain support is nice to ensure Leftovers recovery and halving Fire moves. Obviously Celebi wouldn't use HP Fire in this case.
Special sweepers that benefits from a few SpA boosts, such as Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Starmie, Latios, Volcarona.
Wish Passer / Heal Wisher, such as Jirachi to keep Celebi healthy.
Teammates that can deal with Scizor, PSong Celebi, Volcarona, and Tornadus. Heatran is a good answer to many of them; Scizor can Pursuit-trap Celebi / Tornadus; Jirachi is the best answer to Tornadus; Gyarados checks Scizor & Volcarona.

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Leaf Storm
move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Earth Power / Psychic
move 4: U-turn / Trick
item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs
nature: Timid
evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Scarf is revenger
Leaf Storm is the omnipresent awesome STAB
HP Fire breaks Steels
HP Ice breaks Dragons and can actually do something to 2x with Specs
Earth Power breaks Heatran
Psychic is a strong STAB
U-turn is great for scouting
Trick screws with Blissey / Chansey / stall mons
Timid to tie with +100's
Offensive spread

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
Modest for more power for the Choice Specs
Fine tune the spread to be bulkier for the Choice Specs
Use hazards with this
Giga Drain is a more reliable STAB for the Choice Specs
Terrakion is good with this
Spin away hazards because Celebi will be switching in alot, Starmie can do this well

[Other Options]
Swords Dance
SubSeed
Calm Mind
Dual Screens
Perish Song
Healing Wish
Stealth Rock
Trick Room

[Checks and Counters]
Faster stuff with strong SE STABs (Tornadus-T, etc.) in general
Tornadus-T
Tornadus
Kyurem in hail
Sun teams
Heatran
Salamence / Dragonite if you lack HP Ice
Hydreigon
Scarf Heracross
Lati@s
Scizor
U-turn
Pursuit
X-Scissor on anything that gets it
Skarmory without Hidden Power Fire
Tyranitar
Genesect

ThePillsburyDoughBoy · Sep 20th, 2012, 10:11:07 PM

I would mention on more defensive teams that U-turn can be replaced by a more appropriate utility option like Heal Bell. I really question U-turn being that useful to Celebi, since so many things can perform the task of getting switch initiative while Celebi can provide some pretty unique support (Paralysis, Healing Wish, Perish Song, and Heal Bell)

alexwolf · Sep 25th, 2012, 5:01:41 AM

I also think that Heal Bell has a lot of merit on SpD Celebi, as many balanced and stall teams appreciate a cleric. Imo you should remove HP Ice as a third slash and put Heal Bell there. Celebi isn't supposed to check dragons anyway, so i see little merit in using HP Ice.

Also why Specs Celebi? Grass is a hideous offensive typing to be lcoked into, and the other awful coverage moves don't help either (HP Fire is weak as shit, and as many know, ground moves suck to be locked into). And if this wasn't enough, Celebi is huge Pursuit bait and and has a very mediocre SpA stat. While some of this points remain true about the Scarf set too, Celebi has just enough power to revenge kill what it needs to, along with the bulk to switch in numerous times and U-turn, which are useful traits for a scarfer. So Scarf Celebi may be a mediocre scarfer but he can be an ok pick if your teams needs his useful resistances and bulk, while Specs Celebi is just bad and outclassed (why would you give him Specs when the all out attacking Celebi does everything better?).

Just my 2 cents...

shrang · Sep 25th, 2012, 8:08:05 AM

Yeah, I thought we rejected Specs Celebi already. Scarf Celebi, I can deal with, but Specs is just bad.

**Pocket** · Oct 20th, 2012, 10:57:43 PM

yee is not working on Celebi anymore - anybody want to finish writing this up?

alexwolf · Oct 25th, 2012, 11:39:40 AM

Someone lock this pls, the new thread is up.

Sep 20th, 2012, 7:57:56 PM	#1
yee Signed and Sealed in Blood I would die for you Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 1,033	Celebi (Analysis) QC 3/3 Since the analysis was chosen to be reassigned I've elected to write it. Im c/ping Ojama's skelly for now and I'll have it written up by next Thursday. [Overview] Great Base Stats all around Quite good typing especially the Grass Typing Awesome Ability Fantastic Movepool Can be used as a Defensive Pokemon (specially or physically) and an Offensive Pokemon Blocks some new threats like Keldeo, Thundurus-T, Sheer Force Landorus Good support options Access to Nasty Plot U-Turn weak Pursuit weak Has a small place in Volturn Tornadus-T weak name: Defensive move 1: Giga Drain move 2: Recover move 3: U-Turn move 4: Perish Song / Hidden Power Fire / Hidden Power Ice item: Leftovers nature: Calm evs: 252 HP / 244 SpD / 20 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Good check to many new offensive threats such as Keldeo, Thundurus-T and Sheer Force Landorus. Giga Drain is a STAB that gives you recovery and makes you not Taunt bait Perish Song gives Celebi a small niche to stop set up sweepers such as Reuniclus, Latias and SubDDNite Recover gives you life U-turn allows Celebi to build momentum while still being a defensive Pokemon HP Fire screws over Ferrothorn and Scizor Watchout though, HP Fire can't OHKO Scizor, you'll need a few damage on it before (Stealth Rock + U-Turn should be enough) Spread stops a 2HKO from Thundurus-T's LO Modest HP Ice 20 Spe for Magnezone Rest in HP and SpD because you need as much SpD as possible to handle Latios and Thundurus-T Lefties is your only item choice A Physically Defensive Set is also possible with a Bold Nature. [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] Run more or max defense if your hate physics walls, the spread is pretty flexable Natural Cure helps a lot here Only use Stealth Rock if your team has no other user you can use Thunder Wave or even Psychic for the last slot Heal Bell Ferrothorn and Scizor screw you over without HP Fire so use something like Heatran, Skarmory or even Forretress. Works well with Entry Hazards since it has U-Turn Tentacruel is an interesting partner in Rain : it spins and sets up Toxic Spikes A Sassy Nature could be used there if you would like to hit a bit harder with U-Turn (against another Celebi for example). Evs in Speed would go in SpD / Def. Scarf Tyranitar is an amazing partner with U-Turn because Celebi attracts Lati@s, Gengar and traps them Gliscor is a good teammate since it handles Terrakion, Scizor and Stall Heatran very well Gastrodon and Heatran work well with Celebi because both can check quite well Tornadus-T and Genesect Skarmory counters Scizor and checks Terrakion + it can Spikes which is great against U-Turn users such as Genesect and Scizor [SET] name: Nasty Plot move 1: Nasty Plot move 2: Giga Drain move 3: Earth Power / Hidden Power Fire move 4: Psychic / Recover / Hidden Power Ice nature: Timid item : Leftovers / Life Orb evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Arguably the best pure offensive set Celebi can run NP boosts your SpA, allowing the sweep Giga Drain is a solid STAB and restores your health HP Fire because fuck you Steels Earth Power because fuck you Heatran Psychic because fuck you genies and Dragonite Recover because fuck you things that won't let Celebi restore health with Giga Drain Spread changed to be much more offensive, now you're not outsped by everything Spread can be changed to be more defensive (use Recover / HP Fire in this case with a Modest Nature). Hidden Power Ice to hit Dragonite, Hydreigon, Landorus, Tornadus-T etc [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] Bulkier spread of 220 HP / 180 SpA / 96 Spe but a lot is faster no matter what you're always not gonna have coverage on something so there are good other moves Baton Pass Scarf Terrakion is still a good teammate here to get rid of genies and fast stuff and special walls (Blissey & Chansey) he also takes the Dark-type attacks Celebi hates Tentacruel has good synergy and can spin away hazards (only in Rain) Heatran for the Scizor weakness, Magnezone can fit here as well Scarf Tyranitar for Lati@s and Gengar Jirachi works well with Wish and it can also handle Tornadus-T, Genesect, Lati@s and Gengar Leaf Storm can be used over Giga Drain for more power [SET] name: Offensive move 1: Leaf Storm move 2: Hidden Power Fire move 3: Earth Power / Psychic move 4: U-turn / Recover / Thunder Wave item: Life Orb nature: Timid / Modest evs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Leaf Storm is an awesomely powerful STAB move to be used like DM would be on a Dragon HP Fire is to take out Steels not named Heatran Earth Power is for Steels named Heatran Psychic is a reliable STAB move without the -2 SpA effect U-turn is a good scouting move Thunder Wave gives Celebi some support options Recover is awesome and heals off the LO recoil Life Orb is great for Celebi (who doesn't have the greatest SpA) I kept the EV spread because I honestly couldn't think of a better one [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] Lefties lets you live longer Giga Drain is a more reliable STAB move use Scarf Terrakion with this, trust me Deoxys-D for Hazards Watch out for Heatran if you don't carry Earth Power HP Ice really won't do much to 2x Dragons, so don't overestimate it 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe w/ Timid Bulkier spread running 36 Spe, 252 SpA, 220 Spe (use Thunder Wave in this case) Stealth Rock is an option over U-Turn or Earth Power Scarf Tyranitar [SET] name: Baton Pass move 1: Baton Pass move 2: Calm Mind / Nasty Plot move 3: Giga Drain move 4: Substitute / Hidden Power Fire item: Leftovers nature: Calm evs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Calm Mind > Nasty Plot, since it is much easier to pass CM boosts than NP boosts. 101 HP Sub makes Chansey / Blissey set-up fodder and protects the CM recipient on the turn of Baton Pass Substitute also blocks Dragon Tail - Careful Dragonite's Dragon Tail does not break Celebi's Substitute. After 3 CMs, not even Rain Tank's Hurricane would break Celebi's Substitute most of the time. Specially Defensive spread makes setting up CMs on special sweepers much easier. HP Fire can be used over Substitute to take out Skarmory before it can phaze Celebi's special attack boosts. Many Rain Pokemon are set-up fodder for Celebi [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] Thunder Wave gives it 25% fp chance of BP success against phazers, and it's a generally good utility move. Earth Power to dispatch Heatran, which may phaze Celebi 84 SpA to OHKO specially defensive Heatran with a +2 Earth Power or a physically defensive Skarmory with a +2 HP Fire 72 Spe to beat Modest Heatran to the punch. Swords Dance & Seed Bomb / Zen Headbutt to pass Atk boosts Magic Coat / Espeon to cockblock phazers Recover to keep it healthy Rain support is nice to ensure Leftovers recovery and halving Fire moves. Obviously Celebi wouldn't use HP Fire in this case. Special sweepers that benefits from a few SpA boosts, such as Thundurus-T, Keldeo, Starmie, Latios, Volcarona. Wish Passer / Heal Wisher, such as Jirachi to keep Celebi healthy. Teammates that can deal with Scizor, PSong Celebi, Volcarona, and Tornadus. Heatran is a good answer to many of them; Scizor can Pursuit-trap Celebi / Tornadus; Jirachi is the best answer to Tornadus; Gyarados checks Scizor & Volcarona. [SET] name: Choice move 1: Leaf Storm move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Fire move 3: Earth Power / Psychic move 4: U-turn / Trick item: Choice Scarf / Choice Specs nature: Timid evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Scarf is revenger Leaf Storm is the omnipresent awesome STAB HP Fire breaks Steels HP Ice breaks Dragons and can actually do something to 2x with Specs Earth Power breaks Heatran Psychic is a strong STAB U-turn is great for scouting Trick screws with Blissey / Chansey / stall mons Timid to tie with +100's Offensive spread [ADDITIONAL COMMENTS] Modest for more power for the Choice Specs Fine tune the spread to be bulkier for the Choice Specs Use hazards with this Giga Drain is a more reliable STAB for the Choice Specs Terrakion is good with this Spin away hazards because Celebi will be switching in alot, Starmie can do this well [Other Options] Swords Dance SubSeed Calm Mind Dual Screens Perish Song Healing Wish Stealth Rock Trick Room [Checks and Counters] Faster stuff with strong SE STABs (Tornadus-T, etc.) in general Tornadus-T Tornadus Kyurem in hail Sun teams Heatran Salamence / Dragonite if you lack HP Ice Hydreigon Scarf Heracross Lati@s Scizor U-turn Pursuit X-Scissor on anything that gets it Skarmory without Hidden Power Fire Tyranitar Genesect

Sep 20th, 2012, 10:11:07 PM	#2
ThePillsburyDoughBoy Ttar by Doughboy Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 958 Mentor	I would mention on more defensive teams that U-turn can be replaced by a more appropriate utility option like Heal Bell. I really question U-turn being that useful to Celebi, since so many things can perform the task of getting switch initiative while Celebi can provide some pretty unique support (Paralysis, Healing Wish, Perish Song, and Heal Bell) __________________ Check Out the 1 vs 1 Metagame: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3483807

Sep 25th, 2012, 5:01:41 AM	#3
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,633 Greece	I also think that Heal Bell has a lot of merit on SpD Celebi, as many balanced and stall teams appreciate a cleric. Imo you should remove HP Ice as a third slash and put Heal Bell there. Celebi isn't supposed to check dragons anyway, so i see little merit in using HP Ice. Also why Specs Celebi? Grass is a hideous offensive typing to be lcoked into, and the other awful coverage moves don't help either (HP Fire is weak as shit, and as many know, ground moves suck to be locked into). And if this wasn't enough, Celebi is huge Pursuit bait and and has a very mediocre SpA stat. While some of this points remain true about the Scarf set too, Celebi has just enough power to revenge kill what it needs to, along with the bulk to switch in numerous times and U-turn, which are useful traits for a scarfer. So Scarf Celebi may be a mediocre scarfer but he can be an ok pick if your teams needs his useful resistances and bulk, while Specs Celebi is just bad and outclassed (why would you give him Specs when the all out attacking Celebi does everything better?). Just my 2 cents... __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!

Oct 20th, 2012, 10:57:43 PM	#5
Pocket Bakuman ;< Moderator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 7,180 Bergenfield	yee is not working on Celebi anymore - anybody want to finish writing this up? __________________ Dark Horse Project: Conquer the Ladder! \| Word of Wisdom for Trainers \| Smogon Doubles: Let's Make It Official!

Oct 25th, 2012, 11:39:40 AM	#6
alexwolf King of Conquerors Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 3,633 Greece	Someone lock this pls, the new thread is up. __________________ Part of the OU QC team, message me for a check!