Research Group #6 - Mr. Mime, Mawile, Torkoal, Solrock

Introduction:
NU is a tier where many Pokemon are usable, and there are a ton of different options. Research Group aids in helping explore the tier. Who knows, maybe in future tier changes one of these Pokemon can be incredibly useful, potentially being able to check the new threats well. Maybe one of these Pokemon may find uses in other tiers and is not just a simple throw-away Pokemon, unlike some unfortunate Pokemon in NU.

Some rules:

• Be open-minded. Don't just say something is terrible and walk away; at least look into them and see what options they may be able to utilize.
• Feel free to theorymon, but make it clear that you are theorymon'ing. At the end of the week, however, I want discussion to move towards how useful the Pokemon actually are in NU, and what sets are effective on them.
• Just because an analysis has been done for a Pokemon doesn't mean there isn't more to explore; it's quite possible that something might have gone unnoticed or is missing.
• Do not post in this thread complaining about the Pokemon I choose and/or suggesting ones we should do for future weeks. I want discussion to stay on topic about the four Pokemon we are "researching". You'll be able to vote on what Pokemon you want the next Research Group right before it starts (out of a ballot that is determined by me)

The four Pokemon that we will be looking into this Research Group are:



How useful are these Pokemon in NU? What sets can they run effectively? What gives them trouble? What advantages do they have over other Pokemon? How well do they work in the metagame? If you have anything to say about any of these Pokemon, please post about them! It doesn't matter if you've used them or have just faced them in battle, anything is fine (but please, do try them). Just be sure to back up your posts with good competitive reasoning. Remember, discussion is not limited to this topic, you are encouraged to talk about these Pokemon in #neverused/#pokemon as well!

Please include more substance in your posts than just "in" and what Pokemon you're using. What sets are you planning on using? What interests you about whatever Pokemon you're using? Remember: people who contribute a lot to Research Group will be listed on the hub page as an outstanding contributor for this Research Group.

I can see the cliched combination of using Mawile + Mr. Mime on a BP team, but I will forgo it and choose to focus on only Solrock this round. I would test out defensive sets, to see how it differentiates from Regirock, and offensive sets, as well. Alt name is Kobe Bryanttt.

Thanks for putting Mawile for research week :]

EDIT: Apparently there is no more laddering feature so I'll just post my experience with my sets after I get in a good amount of battles with the team I'm using.


Mr. Mime @Leftovers
Trait: Soundproof
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Substitute
-Calm Mind / Nasty Plot
-Baton Pass
-Psychic

Okay after about 20 or so battles I have found Mr.Mime to actually be a pretty good to my team. The only thing that holds me back from using it on a team again is the existence of Musharna, which in my opinion does the whole Calm Mind Passing deal a lot better due to having a real defense stat and recovery. However this was kind of to be expected as my team is not a dedicated Baton Pass team, which would make use of Mr.Mime's Soundproof much better than my team does. As said by Annoyer my team is more of a "Hey Haunter and Ludicolo here's a Calm Mind, buddy" What I did enjoy about Mr.Mime however, even outside of an all out Baton Pass team was its good base 90 Speed that made it a good user of Substitute. It's tons of fun to get up a free Substitute against Alomomola's Toxic, get up a Nasty Plot, and Baton Pass out to Ludicolo. From there I have a +2 Ludicolo behind a Sub that won't be breaking anytime soon to Alomomola's Scald or Waterfall, and is about to set up Rain Dance for a sweep. Mr.Mime's fast speed and Substitute made it much easier to Baton Pass out to something frail such as Haunter, although Musharna can get of a safe Baton Pass out as well because its so slow. In total Musharna is probably the better choice for a "Have a Calm Mind, buddy" kind of team, but if you're planning on using a dedicated Baton Pass team look no further than this deaf Mime.



(SMASHKOAL) Torkoal @White Herb
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
-Shell Smash
-Rapid Spin
-Fire Blast
-Earth Power

SMASHKOAL was something that a lot of us have used and seen a ton of in action (at least if you also stalk flcl on his RINGO MOGIRE BEAM alt every game just to say "YOUR LIFE CHANGES EVERYTHING") and proves itself to be the best Rapid Spin user in NU at the moment. Thanks to Shell Smash and Torkoal's decent base 85 Special Attack it has the ability to outspeed and beat every Ghost-type Pokemon in the tier. Golurk, Drifblim, and Haunter cannot stand up to the power of Torkoa's Fire Blast while Misdreavus provides Torkoal with another opportunity for a Shell Smash. Once Torkoal has baited and taken down the opposing Ghost-type Pokemon it's free to Rapid Spin or even sweep an opponent if needed. With max Speed Torkoal can outspeed standard Golem and Regirock and after a Shell Smash has the ability to outspeed positive natured base 75 Speed Pokemon to get off damage or a Rapid Spin. Torkoal's choice of coverage is down to either Earth Power or Hidden Power Grass, although Earth Power is recommended to prevent being walled by Fire-types and because +2 Earth Power does good damage to Water-type Pokemon anyways. Overall Torkoal is the best spinner in NU, and more people should be using it.

Quite odd how 3/4 could work well on a BP team. Mawile is plenty versatile in what it can do. Can serve as a toxic staller, go offensive, be a BP booster/pivot. Sets that abuse LO and SF are my favorite. Crunch/Iron Head/Rock Slide/elemental fangs is plenty coverage IMO. Although base 50 in all but two stats isn't too great >_<

Mr. Mime is someone I'm surprised we don't see more often. Base 90 speed and 100 SpA aren't too bad. Has NP, CM and plenty of coverage so what gives? It can't take a hit to save its life but it should be a fine late game sweeper.

In with Solrock.

Alt: NGC 5194

I haven't used Mr. Mime much in the past but from seeing him in many battles, he is a great baton passer and is key to many chains due to his ability Soundproof to stop phazing with Roar or Perish Song. Outside of Baton Passing, he can even take an offensive approach with Nasty Plot which works surprisingly well due to his high base 90 speed which is on par with the likes of Zangoose and Kangashkan.



My favorite mon ever <3. After using Mawile extensively in the past (all of its sets), I can tell that it is much better than its base stats show. With Intimidate and a great Steel-typing, it can use a defensive set very well with its great support movepool consisting of treats such as Stealth Rock, Seismic Toss, Taunt, Pain Split, Super Fang, Knock Off and even lol Sing. It's a great counter to many threats such as DD Fraxure, Cinccino, Swellow, Skuntank, and Klang. It's not a slouch offensively as with Swords Dance + Life Orb + Sheer Force, it can pack quite the punch. With priority in the form of Sucker Punch, a hard-hitting STAB move in Iron Head, and great coverage in Ice Punch, not many Pokemon can stand up to this. SD Mawile can even beat Alomomola if Alomomola switches in on a Swords Dance and if damage rolls go in the favor of Mawile. Mawile can even be a great Baton Passer with Intimidate and Taunt while passing either Iron Defense or Swords Dance boosts. This idea is from WhiteDMist and I've been loving it so far. It's a physically defensive Mawile with Swords Dance / Iron Head / Sucker Punch / Taunt/Substitute/Pain Split. It combines Mawile's ability to wall certain threats while keeping offensive pressure through Swords Dance (Able to beat SubBUBraviary).



SMASHKOAL. One of the best spinners in the tier that basically beats every common Ghost-type in the tier with Shell Smash. I've seen it in action multiple times and it always performs its job of spinning and even blowing holes into teams with its very powerful Fire Blast. Also, can use a defensive set to take on physical threats such as Swellow better since it even has better bulk than Skarmory! I would recommend this mon on many teams because it is very unexpected and great at its job of spinning.



This is probably the most underrated mon in this Research Group. Some people say that it is outclassed by other Rockk-types and while this is for the most part true, Solrock has an immunity to Ground-type moves, Psychic typing to take Fighting-type attacks better, access to Will-O-Wisp, and pretty good reliable recovery in Morning Sun. I will definitely be testing out this Pokemon since it seems like a unique Rock-type. It can also use Dual Screens well with SR + Dual Screens + Explosion which is also quite unique. It's weakness to U-turn really hampers its ability to take on the birds such as Swellow and Braviary.

Alt: Awayer
Pokemon: Mawile + Solrock
SD + Pain Split Mawile with Physically Defensive Solrock (atm)
Great to see RG again. :)

EDIT: Also using SMASHKOAL because it's just that good.

Im glad Research Week is back. :)



I think ill be focusing solely on Mr. Mime to start because ive had some experience with the others, except Solrock who i will prob use too eventually. No, i am not cool and using a him on a baton pass team. Im thinking about starting with a Sub + 3 attacks set on Mr. Mime with Life Orb. With his good SpAtk and Spe, he might be able to pull it off and Sub will help with not getting revenged. Might add Calm Mind or Nasty Plot on the set so he becomes a nasty sweeper (pun intended lolz). Might also try scarf and specs just to see how effective they might be. MR. MIME FTW

Alt: Blind Pilot

Just saying, but unless you're baton passing with offensive mime, it's a worse Kadabra.

Torkoal (M) @ Heat Rock / Life Orb
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Sunny Day
- Fire Blast
- SolarBeam
- Rapid Spin

I haven't done any laddering for Torkoal for this Research Group specifically, but I can verify from experience that Torkoal is an excellent Sunny Day user. People just love switching Alomomola, Samurott, Gorebyss etc into Torkoal as it tries to spin, and Sunny Day + SolarBeam makes them a complete non-issue thanks to Torkoal's respectable bulk. Furthermore, Torkoal's Fire Blast is really damn powerful in Sunlight, especially with a Life Orb attached, ensuring that Torkoal isn't set up bait and can force switches to spin easily. Sun teams love spinners anyways to make stuff like Charizard more viable, so it's a fantastic pick for that slot if you want to run it.

Just make sure to pack something for Altaria and other Fire-types, and you're set. :)

I'm using Mr. Mime and Mawile in my actual BP team and they are awesome.



I've used the classic Mr. Mime set with Calm Mind, it's a bit dangerous to switch in if my actual passer as no substitute to pass to him, coz a special attack from a good special sweeper can cut half of mime's HP letting me setup only 1-2 CMs (not counting crits -___-).



I like to use Mawile as an Iron Defense passer, thanks to Intimidate and his typing, he has a good time passing them and in a BP team, the boost in defense are essentially.
I run a classic set with Iron Defense/Baton Pass/Substitute/Iron Head, with max HP and speed.

Ill test Solrock and Mr. Mime.
Alt: SOLtime

EDIT: Had to change my name because I couldnt get in on the other user..

Well, I'm on the alt ShellSmashKoal testing...SmashKoal.

0/0/4/252/0/252 Timid@White Herb
Shell Smash
Fire Blast
Earth Power
Rapid Spin
So far I've exclusively used this version, and oddly enough it's worked out a lot better than I've expected so far...it spins when it needs to, and slow teams actually have some trouble if they don't have a resist. It can be a decent lead. Been an awesome Articuno partner so far. I plan to go more in depth later. Also, hello smogon!

I'm in under the alt Solrocked. Running a sun team with Solrock and Torkoal (trying out the set Erisia posted).

Solrock @ Normal Gem
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Brave Nature (+Atk, -Spd)
- Trick Room
- Explosion
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake / Stone Edge / Zen Headbut

This is the best set support for Solrock imo, first Trick Room, then setupp Stealth Rock and Boom with Explosion + Normal Gem is strong. In the last slot a move offensive for coverage: EQ is good against Rock and Steel types who can take without problems Explosion while SE and Zen Headbut both with STAB.

Mr. Mime is probably the Pokemon I'm most interested in this Research Group. It may seem like an inferior Kadabra, but it does have a few advantages over Kadabra like:

• Much better Special Defense
• Nasty Plot
• Baton Pass
• Technician
• Focus Blast

I'm especially interested in Technician Mr. Mime. It has pretty interesting moves to utilize Technician with, most notably Hidden Power (Bug), Charge Beam, and Icy Wind. All of Mr. Mime's abilities are pretty cool, Soundproof is awesome on BP teams (and allows Mr. Mime to cockblock Butterfree!) and Technician boosts the power of some interesting moves. I'm not sure if Filter allows Mr. Mime to avoid any notable OHKO's or 2HKO's, but if it does, that's pretty cool; I'll have to do some calcs later.

So what do you guys think of the Pokemon so far?

I've been using Torkoal and Solrock under the alt: SpinOff. My sets have been Smashkoal and Boomrock, both of which have been really useful on my team. I already sorta knew that Torkoal is a beast but Solrock has been doing a surprising amount of good on my team. Sets up both Stealth Rock and Trick Room fairly reliably for my team to have fun with. I'll continue using this team for a while but I'm not really aiming for any ladder peaks.

This is interesting. Lemme try Mawile and Mr. Mime.

I'll edit soon enough to make a review
Alt: Ditto 2

You don't know how excited I am that Mawile is in the research group! I'll be using Mawile and Torkoal for sure, and I might add solrock in a later team.

Alt: Bodo

I'm definitely going to try out a defensive Mawile and I want to try a set on Solrock
I have faced both of these pokemon, but Mawile had caused me the most trouble due to its Intimidate

I'll post once I finish testing, and might even throw in Mr Mime to see how it goes :D

SD Mawile is rather hit or miss I find. I've had times where I go on a four poke sweep and they just forfeit, I've had times where I get a kill then I'm shut down. Usually setting up SD isn't a problem. A +2 LO STAB Iron Head is damn strong, although for the most part really neutral. Sucker Punch has been what's kept me safe from the faster threats. Probably the best part of this was the surprise factor because most people didn't know I had SP. All in all I still love Mawile, it just needs a little more oomph. My set is below.

Mawile (F) @ Life Orb
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Ice Punch
- Iron Head

Not being able to test stuff on PS is really annoying but anyway, something I've been wanting to try out (and may or may not have been beaten by previously...) was Nasty Plot Mr. Mime. 100 SpA is nothing to laugh at when at +2, while 90 Speed is certainly usable and outruns the large majority of the tier.

Mr. Mime @ Leftovers
Trait: Technician
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
-Substitute
-Nasty Plot
-Psychic
-Hidden Power Ground

With that 90 base power HP Ground it can OHKO Skuntank, and OHKO Absol with Stealth Rock damage (note this is without a boosting nature). Since it can avoid Sucker Punch with Substitute, as well as outspeeding both of them, it seems to have a decent niche over other Psychic types. It also fares pretty well against Special walls like Lickilicky:

252SpAtk +2 Technician Mr. Mime (Neutral) Psychic vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Lickilicky (+SpDef): 43% - 50% (183 - 216 HP). Guaranteed 3HKO.

And other notable walls like Audino, Amoonguss and Alomomola are obviously destroyed by this. So, thoughts on Mr. Mime? Good idea yes or no?

Okay so since PS has been back up I've recently started using Solrock on a Hyper Offense team and the results are pretty good. This set gets its job done 90% of the time, the advantage Solrock has over other Dual Screens like Torterra is the ability to lay down SR, Reflect and Light Screen and then use explosion, clearing the way for sweepers to begin to set up.



Solrock @ Light Clay
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Explosion

The main idea of the set is to Reflect/Light Screen on the first turn, depending on if your opponent leads off with a Physical or Special Attacker. Then you can proceed to set up Stealth Rock if it looks like it will be important in securing a sweep or just go for a Reflect/Light Screen again and if your still alive, explode.

The Ev's allow Solrock to at least speed tie with positive base 70 Pokemon like Samurrot, while having enough HP to live a Surf/Hydro Pump/Waterfall from Ludicolo after a screen is up.

This set works best when using a Pokemon that lures out Rock/Ground type or other Stealth Rock leads like Regirock, Golem, Piloswine and Stunfisk. Pokemon that work well with this set are swepers that appreciate screens to setup such as Linoone, Gorebyss and Fraxure. Linoone gets a special mention as it has the ability to lure out some of those Rock/Ground types that Solrock can set up on.

Currently 15th on the ladder (name Jaakko), and I'd like to vouch to Mawile's effectiveness for my squad.

Here's my set:

Mawile @ Leftovers
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Iron Head
- Fire Fang
- Sucker Punch

It maybe isn't maximized, but it works for my squad. Intimidate gives Mawile lots of chances to set up Swords Dance and do some damage. The Leftovers give Mawile some much needed survivability since she takes a lot of abuse on the switch in. I'm tempted to try out the Life Orb/Sheer Force variant but honestly the added bulk and the extra time needed to set up nets Mawile a bunch of kills.

I have heard a lot of good recommendations for Shell Smash Torkoal, so I've decided to test that set out myself. I made a few adjustments to the EVs to fit my tastes, but otherwise it is the same set as previously posted by EBeast earlier in this thread. I'll be playing on the alt, WDM.

Torkoal (M) @ White Herb
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 SAtk / 140 SDef / 116 Spd
Modest Nature
- Shell Smash
- Rapid Spin
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power

The Speed EVs is to outspeed max Speed Adamant Golurk after a Smash, which is enough for me. The rest will go into Special Defense to live attacks from Haunter and Misdreavus, as well as weak attackers from both sides of the spectrum.

I used a mawile on my competitive emerald NU team, and I'm glad to say he was great! I gave him 2 sweeps and then some supporting attacks for doubles. Actually I had two :D one for singles and one doubles, and mine was better in singles. If you find some good moves, then it's actually a pretty good sweeper, with few weakness', especially in generation 3 from what I've seen.