|Feb 7th, 2013, 11:41:40 AM||#1|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Suicide Mission (Peaked #1)
"We're at war. No one wants to admit it but Humanity's under attack. One very specific man might be all that stands between Humanity and the greatest threat of our brief existence.
We need a leader, and surround him with the brightest, the toughest, the deadliest allies we can find. The team will have to be strong, their resolve unquestionable."
Hi guys and welcome to my second UU RMT ! As always, I'm starting with a little intro. First of all, I want to apologize for the mistakes I will probably make, english is not my first language and I'm doing my best. Next, I'm not really seriously playing pokemon anymore, the competitive game I'm playing at the moment is Mass Effect 3 (Multiplayer). I REALLY loved the Mass Effect trilogy and so I decided to dedicate a RMT to one of the most badass moments in the history of video gaming : Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission. Those who have played will understund the epicness I'm speaking about. Anyways... So yeah, I'm not really playing pokemon, but this is a serious build, maybe even my last one, as the team you're gonna see was built for the SPL. I got bought by the Stark Sharks and even if Upstart is an amazing player, I still wanted to be ready in case I would be needed. It ended up that I wasn't even allowed in the team's IRC channel and at the end got sold out for inactivity.. Kind of hard to be active when you don't even have acces to your team's channel lol But no hard feelings, Sharks are still the best and will still win this SPL ! Gogogogo Sharks !
So well, now that this team won't be really needed, I though I might as well ladder a little bit with it and finally, because it is a team I really enjoyed building and playing, share it.
AND YES I DO KNOW THIS SCREENSHOT DOES NOT SHOWS MY 1ST PLACE IN THE LADDER. But when I peaked 1 I randomly took -60 points for an unknown reason like 1 hour after I did so and I didn't immediately save the screenshot as I was not planning on doing a RMT at this moment. Well, I hope that my win/lose ratio of 92% will be enough to convince you I'm not lying. And of course it is not the only battles I have made with the team, I've played it a lot without really laddering.
A)Team Building Process
As most of my teams, this is an extremely agressive one, that almost doesn't allow switching. The idea behind that team was born when I realized one thing.. How do you think, which is the very best pokemon in Underused ? Some might say Heracross, others might say Mienshao or Mew... My answer would be Froslass. UU's best pokemon at the moment in my opinion is FROSLASS. Not only Froslass has one of the highest speed tiers in Underused, but also it has an amazing double type, a great move pool (it has Spikes, Taunt and Destiny Bond !), a good special attack (for a spiker at least) and a good offensive stab. I'll talk about that later. Anyways... I soon realized how hard is it to spin in Underused even against a team with only Froslass.. But mostly, I realized that it is IMPOSSIBLE to effectively spin against a team with 2 ghosts in UU.
So I had a good way to put on a lot of entry hazards. What was left was surrounding them with pokemons that could abuse of their presence. Sharpedo, Moxiecross, Rain Dance Kingdra and Dragon Dance Scrafty were the ones that came up to my mind first, because with spikes, they win REALLY a lot of KOs and can all be amazing finishers. But soon enough I've realized that even the most agressive team needs some safe switches. Especially when you have to deal with fire type berserkers like Victini and Darmanitran. Swampert seemed like the best check to both of them, but at the end I picked Rhyperior, for its ability to break trough subs and sashes with Rock Blast and of course because I wanted something as agressive as possible.
+ Ghost +
Then for my second ghost I added Trick Room Coffagrigus, because not only could he stop spinning, but also he was going along with my main goal which was to bring as much spike abusers as possible. Nasty Plot Trick Room Cofagrigus can take down A LOT of teams with the right amount of hazards.
Finally, I realized that I needed something to OHKO Blastoise as I really didn't want to immediately go for Cofagrigus after Froslass was dead. I also needed something that would go along well with Rhyperior. Something that resists water and grass attacks and OHKOs every form of Blastoise.. The obvious choice was Shaymin. Again, the most agressive form of Shaymin was picked to ensure the needed KOs.
+ + +
All I had left to do was to pick the right pokemons between the finishers I spoke about earlier. Saying it was a hard decision would be lying, Sharpedo and Heracross naturally came up to me for obvious reasons of which you will hear more later.
+ + + + +
The team can be separated in 2 parts. The spiking/anti-spinning group consisting of Rhyperior, Shaymin and Froslass and the finishers.
I will start with Rhyperior or Froslass depending on the opponent’s team and put as much hazards as I can, losing Rhyperior and Froslass in the process is more than acceptable if the main goal is completed (= the right amount of hazards depending on the opponent’s team has been set up)
I will be switching almost only between the "Spiking core". Switches on Sharpedo are not allowed. Switching on Heracross and Cofagrigus is never a good thing to do either even if sometimes it is necessary.
After that it's easy : EVERY TEAM will be destroyed by at least one pokemon between Sharpedo, Cofagrigus and Heracross with the support of Shaymin if you have the right amount of spikes on the field. And I dare you to prove me wrong !
III)A closer look at the team
A)The "Spiking Core"
"After time adrift among open stars, along tides of light and through shoals of dust, I will return to where I began."
Tali'Zorah (Froslass) (F) @ Focus Sash
Trait: Cursed Body
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
IVs: 0 Atk
- Destiny Bond
- Ice Beam
0 IVs in atk is to reduce the damage taken on Foul Play and confusion hits.
"I don’t need luck ! I have ammo."
Grunt (Rhyperior) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Solid Rock
EVs: 152 HP / 104 Atk / 252 SDef
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast
- Dragon Tail
Dragon Tail is amazing, as Rhyperior forces really a lot of switches and so if you already have your spikes, it can become really annoying for the opponnent.
1) He has a terrible machup and won't do a lot, OR I need to setup Stealth Rock really early even if it means sacrificing Rhyperior. In that case I just setup rocks and throw it away.
2) He's a huge annoyance for the opp. In that case I will save him and switch a lot on him abusing Dragon Tail.
But in both cases Rhyperior won't be used in late game and won't switch a lot, as he allows easy enemy switches on rapid spinners and forces me to switch on Cofagrigus. I don't like switching on my finishers. I actually don't like switching at all with this team.
-I've been thinking about using a berry that reduces the power of water or grass attacks, but Leftovers do look better at the end. If it could do some serious damage against stuff like Virizion, Blastoise or Milotic, I would probably go for it, but right now Leftovers look like a better option
"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong."
Mordin Solus (Shaymin) @ Life Orb
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk -Atk)
- Seed Flare
- Hidden Power Fire
- Earth Power
Synthesis gives Shaymin a surprisingly good staying power and is easy to use because Shaymin will force a lot of switches by the fact that a lot of pokemons are completely powerless against it.
Rest could be used over Synthesis, but it forces me to switch and as I said this team doesn't really like switching.
A Choice Spec could be a good option, but I need versatility and the ability to use Synthesis more than rough power.
Finally, Virizion over Shaymin could really bring a lot to the team especially in mid/late game, but I really can't play without Shaymin's brute power, it would cost me just too much in early game.
B)The "Sweeping Core"
"Amonkira, Lord of Hunters, grant that my hands be steady, my aim be true, and my feet swift. And should the worst come to pass, grant me forgiveness."
Thane Krios (Cofagrigus) (M) @ Leftovers
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spe)
IVs : 2 Atk / 2 Spe
- Shadow Ball
- Trick Room
- Nasty Plot
- Hidden Power Fighting
-I could also weaken my Hidden Power to make it even slower, but I didn't find that to be necessary as until now I haven't encountered a single slower pokemon that can make a difference (including Trick Room users)
"Does this unit... Have a soul ?"
Legion (Heracross) @ Choice Scarf
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Close Combat
- Stone Edge
The EVs are classic I guess.
But what could be surprising to some of you is Pursuit. Why using Pursuit ? Actually for only 1 purpose : Chandelure. This pokemon is a plain annoyance in early game and as the opponnent will almost always have a perfect counter to Heracross in early game and will know that I'm scarfed, he will almost always switch out because Pursuit is almost never used on Heracross.
"I don't know if they can feel fear, but we're damned sure going to give them the opportunity. Hit them hard. One way or another, it ends here ! "
Commander Shepard (Sharpedo) @ Life Orb
Trait: Speed Boost
EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
Note : in the team preview, Heracross is the lead and Froslass and Rhyperior are in the middle of the team, that's not much I know, but this way I don't give my opponnent a single clue about whom I will lead with between Froslass and Rhyperior.
With this my second BW UU RMT on Smogon ends. I just wanted to apologize for all the grammar mistakes I have probably made, I tried my best but I do know my english is far from being perfect yet ! Thank you for reading and I hope you enjoyed.
Last edited by Gabranth; Feb 15th, 2013 at 7:16:22 AM.
|Feb 7th, 2013, 12:53:44 PM||#2|
Join Date: Dec 2009
IV) The Threat List
Note : This will be a little special threat-list due to the extremely offensive aspect of the team. What you have to ask yourself is not if a pokemon can make damage to the team, but how can it damage the team's strategy. Also please note that I will be speaking about the lead machups here and that when I say "is not able to setup" it means that I won't be switching with Rhyperior but just Dragon Tailing and Taunting with Froslass. I consider a pokemon can setup if it can do so on Shaymin or has a way to avoid getting Dragon Tailed/Taunted
Blue : Annoys the "Spiking Core"
Orange : Can stop the sweep of one or more pokemons from the "Sweeping Core"
Red : Higly annoys the spiking core OR equals to Blue + Orange
Green : Not a huge threat
Last edited by Gabranth; Feb 7th, 2013 at 7:12:42 PM.
|Feb 7th, 2013, 5:34:33 PM||#3|
Join Date: Feb 2012
Amazing team you have here! I really liked it!
There are a few, really few, things I wish to say about the team.
First is Shaymin; HP Fire is a filler, as you said, and Bronzong can be annoying. I really don't like to run Hidden Power unless you able to 4x something or damage a threat for the mon (Shaymin can only 3HKO Bronzong, and so do Sharpedo and Heracross with either their STABs). This said, I think Leech Seed could be an option in place of HP Fire: Leech Seed can force many siwtches, while being able to hit the steel types Toxic wouln't hit, and without a clear field to freely switch you'll do some damage, be with Seed or with the hazards.
Also, in Sharpedo, a mixed set could be viable, but defining a set would be kinda hard, depending which threats you will be aiming to hit, since without Earthquake Sharpedo won't hit Empoleon, while in a mixed set with Ice Beam a STAB should be dropped... Well, maybe keeping the physical one is still a better idea.
Last thing is Rhyperior's Dragon Tail. I kinda don't like it not because it doesn't pass through Substitute, which isn't a problem at all to Rhyperior, but the 90 accuracy. This can be only me, but this kind of move seems to miss when it is most needed. But not a big issue at all.
So, this is what I had to say. Congrats for your team, and I hope I could be of some help!
|Feb 7th, 2013, 5:57:14 PM||#4|
Join Date: Dec 2009
That is actually a pretty good idea. The thing is that it would make Shaymin completely powerless against Roserade, which is not so great considering the fact that this team does not like switching and that Shaymin is the one supposed to take on Grass and Water sweepers. But I might try it over Synthesis, because forcing more switches might indeed be good, it would also lure the opponnent into thinking it's the classic defensive Sub seeder. Will test it out to see how it works.
I have also considered a special set on Sharpedo, especially for Zapdos and Flygon, the thing is, missing Hydro Pump is really really not fun and you need it over Surf to make some kills..
And yes missing Dragon Tail can indeed be annoying, but as I said, losing Rhyperior is not a big deal most of the times, if I use Dragon Tail it probably means the job has already been done and I'm just using it for some "bonus" damage, so yeah, it's not the kind of move which will make me lose a game if I miss it.
Tbh, missing Seed Flare on a rapid spinner (happens waaaaaaaaaay more than what I'd want :/ ) is the real bad thing, but can't do much about that..
Thanks for your rate !
Edit : Finished the threat list.
Last edited by Gabranth; Feb 7th, 2013 at 7:13:13 PM.
|Feb 8th, 2013, 7:40:54 PM||#5|
Join Date: Feb 2010
First I want to thanks Gabranth to post a so good team.
With this team we can see the power of Froslass in this tier. Nobody can spin or stop it when she's surrounded with good sweeper like this. Finally you play Cofagrigus (I thinking Cofag was gay) , double ghost it's such a pain in UU more with Shaymin and Heracross to set NPCofag or SharpRape. So GG for this great building :)
My RMT UU : El Baile de la Mariposa
|Feb 8th, 2013, 8:34:15 PM||#6|
Join Date: Jan 2010
i like the team, but it seems like you have to play incredibly well to not get fucked by certain threats. opposing ghosts like chandelure and cofag will destroy you if allowed to get in easily. chandelure will take something out every time it comes in, and if an opposing cofag sets up before yours it's pretty much gg, only being able to "rely" on sharpedo. i also don't like how your only way of really handling abomasnow is scarf heracross, who will only take one blizz before being ko'd next time. furthermore, watch out for electrics with hp grass because w/o rhyperior being able to check raikou / zapdos, you're in for a really tough time.
honestly, i'm not the best with offensive teams so if you can handle these threats by imposing your will on the opponent, then kudos. all i will say though is that if you really wanted to help against threats and give the team more of backbone, i would replace cofag. dual ghosts was cool during dpp uu, but the spinners in uu suck so hard that running one spin block is more than enough, especially when you can keep up the offensive pressure so blastoise can only switch in roughly once. running two ghosts is just stacking weaknesses i feel, and that slot could be used much better. but eh, if you feel cofag is integral to your success, feel free to keep using it.
just my two cents.
|Feb 8th, 2013, 11:02:59 PM||#7|
winter is coming
Join Date: Aug 2009
heh its funny how this team is used by so many people and no one actually posted it until now
im not saying you stole it btw, its just that both RT and myself came up with slight variations if it individually (he insists i copied his but he sucks so i'd never do that) and its kind of amusing to see we were not the only ones lol
my version uses cb snorlax over scarf heracross and scarf darmanitan over sharpedo.
this solves the problem of flat out losing to opposing otr cofagrigus in two ways: it doesnt have heracross to set up on anymore and lax is a great check to it. cb snorlax is also amazing with tr up, which is cool. scarf darma gives you a nice scarf user/late-game sweeper/hail wrecker all in one (which snorlax also does).
you should try that version and see how it works for you. i've found a more bulky-offensive approach to the team to be more effective overall tbh.
|Feb 9th, 2013, 3:15:35 AM||#8|
Join Date: Dec 2012
wow. I've been looking through uu teams to see if i could find one to inspire me in uu. and this looks like a great idea.
only suggestions i can think of would be timid heracross
and also, a mixed sharpedo set.
while sharpedos special attack may seem weak, fully invested, it gives you a surprisingly powerful hydro pump and ice beam. which is backed up by a crunch or earthquake. best of all is that because of speed boost, you don't have to invest all 252 of your other ev's into speed. which leaves you plenty for attack.
it plays somewhat differently than your current sharpedo, but i find it to be very strong
|Feb 9th, 2013, 7:12:32 AM||#9|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Next about the thow ghosts.. The thing is that I really have to rely on my entry hazards to ensure a clean Sharpedo sweep, which means that if I don't have a ghost and I drop the pressure even for a little moment and let the opponnent spin, I've basically lost the game, I can't afford that..
My goal was basically to build an extremely agressive team, that almost does not allow any switch on the half of the team. And well, if you don't run Sharpedo, it means the offensive concept is really different, what I think to understund from what you said, is that your team is not supposed to sacrifice every pokemon just to maintain the pressure, just like mine does. As long as I have weakened the team enough for a Sharpedo sweep, I don't care about losing every single other pokemon. I'd even say that really a lot of games will start with a 6-1 or a 5-1 against me and will end up as a 1-0 victory for me and that it is just like I plan it to be. Replacing Sharpedo would mean to litteraly change the whole concept of the team. The reason I'm using such an agressive approach is also because I wanted to leave my mark, I didn't want to post a RMT that would not represent my main gameplay style.
The thing is, I was planning to do an extremely offensive team, which might look weak to some threats if you just look at it like this, but when you see the pressure it gives in game, you see that these weaknesses don't matter all that much.
CB Snorlax is probably great in your team where your pokemons survive a lot longer and you have a good revenge kill in Darmanitran, but the thing is that in my team it would allow a lot of stuff to setup way too easily and with a team as agressive as mine it would often cost me the game..
Although I do agree it would help a lot against ghosts and even against Zapdos. I will try it out to see if it doesn't reduce the pressure too much !
I might also consider Darmanitran over Heracross because your arguments were convincing indeed. But I'm effrayed that would leave me absolutely nothing for scarfed Chandelure..
Mixed Sharpedo is amazing and Hydro Pump / Ice Beam would greatly help against let's say Zapdos and Flygon, but there is one big problem, which is the 80% accuracy :/ Sharpedo is my main finisher, when it comes on the field I'm supposed to end the battle no matter what, I really really really can't afford to miss a move at this moment.. So I do have considered running a Mixed version, but knowing my luck, I did not took the risk. Hell I already miss all my Seed Flares against rapid spinner xD
Anyways, thank you all for your rates guys, because not only they brough up some intresting points, but also I feel that the fact they were so accurate means that you've more or less carefully read the threat which is the point !
I hope that despite some grammar mistakes and weaknesses in the team that you may have found, you guys still liked reading this RMT and liked the team. Just don't forget that it is supposed to work a little bit differently then conventual teams as it was ment to be extremely agressive =D
I would like to show you how it works in battle, should maybe have saved some logs, now that it has been posted, sadly I think it won't work as well anymore.. In part because of Pursuit on Heracross which won't be a surprise anymore and won't allow me catching Chandelures..
Last edited by Gabranth; Feb 9th, 2013 at 7:24:35 AM.
|Feb 13th, 2013, 8:33:09 PM||#10|
Join Date: Sep 2010
Wow. Just wow. This team is godly. I've been trying it out on PS and I got onto the Top 100 in less than 4 hours, starting from neutral. I'm trying to make some tweaks to it so I can stop feeling guilty for taking such an amazing team, and here are some thoughts.
One of the main problems I face is roserade coming on something that can't kill her, and her putting to sleep one of my sweepers and effectively making it useless. Sometimes, I switch in shaymin to absorb the sleep, but there's not much I can do after that. So, and I know this is going to sound weird, I'm thinking about replacing pursuit on Heracross with Sleep Talk. It would be utterly ridiculous and gimmicky but I feel like it could be a lot of fun and actually end up being somewhat useful. I feel like pursuit right now is more of a filler move than anything, because there's very few things in UU that would get killed by a pursuit that wouldn't get killed by StoneE/MegaH/CC and being locked into a 40 base move is kind of useless for a team that doesn't like to switch much. The only other thing I might play around with is moveset - surprisingly I find myself rarely using earthquake, I prefer to spam dragon tail or use rock blast against Frosslass leads. I'm not sure what I'd fill it with, but I've had some random, weird thoughts that might work (maybe substitute for more dragon tailing trollage? x)) Overall, thanks so so much for an amazing team and for posting this <3
|Feb 15th, 2013, 7:11:26 AM||#11|
Join Date: Dec 2009
Hi ! Really glad you like the team :)
Don't feel guilty about using it, that's the point of a RMT, you guys all feel free to use it. I've added the export to prove my good faith !
And no, don't worry, Sleep Talk on Heracross is not gimmicky and weird, it is a pretty good idea that I myself have considered.
And yes, there is not much Pursuit does, as I said it actually serves only one and single purpose : killing Chandelure. As for me, Chandelure seemed more annoying in early game than Roserade, but if you feel that you'd rather have a solid switch to Roserade's Sleep Powder and don't want to be Pursuiting Chandelures, Sleep Talk is certainly a viable option.
Then about Rhyperior. I always felt like Dragon Tail was more of a bonus move than anything. I've been using it only when I was in a really good situation and was ready to sacrifice it. Rhyperior's Earthquake does make quite a lot of damage, but you are right again, it's not the move you will be using the most. Although, you sometimes need a reliable way of making damage, without being scared of Rock Blast not hitting enough times, so I wouldn't use it without Earthquake. But if you are not convinced by what I'm saying, then use Megahorn over Earthquake, not Substitude, it would give Rhyperior a way to damage Bronzong and that would be extremely usefull and would definitely be the move I would run if Rhyperior could learn 5 moves.
Thanks again for your rate, I hope my answer was explicit enough :)