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Suicide Mission (Peaked #1)

Discussion in 'BW Other Teams' started by Gabranth, Feb 7, 2013.

  1. Gabranth

    Gabranth

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    273
    [​IMG]

    "We're at war. No one wants to admit it but Humanity's under attack. One very specific man might be all that stands between Humanity and the greatest threat of our brief existence.

    We need a leader, and surround him with the brightest, the toughest, the deadliest allies we can find. The team will have to be strong, their resolve unquestionable."



    I)Introduction

    Hi guys and welcome to my second UU RMT ! As always, I'm starting with a little intro. First of all, I want to apologize for the mistakes I will probably make, english is not my first language and I'm doing my best. Next, I'm not really seriously playing pokemon anymore, the competitive game I'm playing at the moment is Mass Effect 3 (Multiplayer). I REALLY loved the Mass Effect trilogy and so I decided to dedicate a RMT to one of the most badass moments in the history of video gaming : Mass Effect 2's Suicide Mission. Those who have played will understund the epicness I'm speaking about. Anyways... So yeah, I'm not really playing pokemon, but this is a serious build, maybe even my last one, as the team you're gonna see was built for the SPL. I got bought by the Stark Sharks and even if Upstart is an amazing player, I still wanted to be ready in case I would be needed. It ended up that I wasn't even allowed in the team's IRC channel and at the end got sold out for inactivity.. Kind of hard to be active when you don't even have acces to your team's channel lol But no hard feelings, Sharks are still the best and will still win this SPL ! Gogogogo Sharks !
    So well, now that this team won't be really needed, I though I might as well ladder a little bit with it and finally, because it is a team I really enjoyed building and playing, share it.
    AND YES I DO KNOW THIS SCREENSHOT DOES NOT SHOWS MY 1ST PLACE IN THE LADDER. But when I peaked 1 I randomly took -60 points for an unknown reason like 1 hour after I did so and I didn't immediately save the screenshot as I was not planning on doing a RMT at this moment. Well, I hope that my win/lose ratio of 92% will be enough to convince you I'm not lying. And of course it is not the only battles I have made with the team, I've played it a lot without really laddering.
    Show Hide
    [​IMG]



    II)Team Intro


    A)Team Building Process

    As most of my teams, this is an extremely agressive one, that almost doesn't allow switching. The idea behind that team was born when I realized one thing.. How do you think, which is the very best pokemon in Underused ? Some might say Heracross, others might say Mienshao or Mew... My answer would be Froslass. UU's best pokemon at the moment in my opinion is FROSLASS. Not only Froslass has one of the highest speed tiers in Underused, but also it has an amazing double type, a great move pool (it has Spikes, Taunt and Destiny Bond !), a good special attack (for a spiker at least) and a good offensive stab. I'll talk about that later. Anyways... I soon realized how hard is it to spin in Underused even against a team with only Froslass.. But mostly, I realized that it is IMPOSSIBLE to effectively spin against a team with 2 ghosts in UU.
    [​IMG] + Ghost
    So I had a good way to put on a lot of entry hazards. What was left was surrounding them with pokemons that could abuse of their presence. Sharpedo, Moxiecross, Rain Dance Kingdra and Dragon Dance Scrafty were the ones that came up to my mind first, because with spikes, they win REALLY a lot of KOs and can all be amazing finishers. But soon enough I've realized that even the most agressive team needs some safe switches. Especially when you have to deal with fire type berserkers like Victini and Darmanitran. Swampert seemed like the best check to both of them, but at the end I picked Rhyperior, for its ability to break trough subs and sashes with Rock Blast and of course because I wanted something as agressive as possible.
    [​IMG] + Ghost + [​IMG]

    Then for my second ghost I added Trick Room Coffagrigus, because not only could he stop spinning, but also he was going along with my main goal which was to bring as much spike abusers as possible. Nasty Plot Trick Room Cofagrigus can take down A LOT of teams with the right amount of hazards.

    [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]

    Finally, I realized that I needed something to OHKO Blastoise as I really didn't want to immediately go for Cofagrigus after Froslass was dead. I also needed something that would go along well with Rhyperior. Something that resists water and grass attacks and OHKOs every form of Blastoise.. The obvious choice was Shaymin. Again, the most agressive form of Shaymin was picked to ensure the needed KOs.

    [​IMG] +[​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]

    All I had left to do was to pick the right pokemons between the finishers I spoke about earlier. Saying it was a hard decision would be lying, Sharpedo and Heracross naturally came up to me for obvious reasons of which you will hear more later.

    [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG] + [​IMG]

    B)The Strategy

    The team can be separated in 2 parts. The spiking/anti-spinning group consisting of Rhyperior, Shaymin and Froslass and the finishers.
    I will start with Rhyperior or Froslass depending on the opponent’s team and put as much hazards as I can, losing Rhyperior and Froslass in the process is more than acceptable if the main goal is completed (= the right amount of hazards depending on the opponent’s team has been set up)
    I will be switching almost only between the "Spiking core". Switches on Sharpedo are not allowed. Switching on Heracross and Cofagrigus is never a good thing to do either even if sometimes it is necessary.
    After that it's easy : EVERY TEAM will be destroyed by at least one pokemon between Sharpedo, Cofagrigus and Heracross with the support of Shaymin if you have the right amount of spikes on the field. And I dare you to prove me wrong !




    III)A closer look at the team


    A)The "Spiking Core"


    [​IMG]


    "After time adrift among open stars, along tides of light and through shoals of dust, I will return to where I began."

    Tali'Zorah (Froslass) (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Cursed Body
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Destiny Bond
    - Ice Beam
    - Spikes
    - Taunt​

    • Why using Froslass ?
    I've already said alot about that. I consider Froslass as being the best pokemon in Underused : easy spiking, Destiny Bond, Taunt, one of the highest speed tiers, Ice Beam and the Ghost type that prevents spiking. Awesome cursed body can also help a lot.

    • Moveset, Nature, EVs :
    This one is easy I think, maximising speed for obvious reasons and maximising special attack because I don't need froslass to be bulky because right now it takes the exact amount of damage I want it to take to use efficiently Destiny Bond (mostly 3HKO by Blastoise Scald if no burn). And also doing some damage to Roserade/Virizion/Zapdos is always a good thing.
    0 IVs in atk is to reduce the damage taken on Foul Play and confusion hits.

    • In game :
    One of my 2 leads. Most of the times it comes, spikes and dies and if I'm doing it right I can often take down a pokemon with Destiny Bond. The thing is to use Taunt and DB at the right time, as some pokemons will often try to activate your sash first and after that to finish you off with a move that doesn't activate DB like Toxic or Will-O-Wisp. if you start with taunt, then most of the time the opponent will still attack thinking you don't want to use Destiny Bond, if you use Destiny Bond and then taunt, then your opponent will switch which will allow to setup more spikes or using Taunt again, forcing more switchs. Against Bronzong or Blastoise, I go for Taunt first, against lesser trheats I can do as I like.

    • Froslass's place in the team's balance ?
    N/A. It's the usual lead and if Rhyperior is the lead then I will switch in on it only against Blastoise (meaning I sent out Rhyperior as a lead) or Bronzong (we're speaking about turn 1 or 2, so he will use SR and I don't want to lose my sash) to try to take them down with Destiny Bond or to setup some spikes.

    • Other options ?
    I could run Shadow Ball over Ice Beam, but I'm not quite sure it is a good idea.








    [​IMG]

    "I don’t need luck ! I have ammo."

    Grunt (Rhyperior) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 152 HP / 104 Atk / 252 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Dragon Tail​

    • Why using Rhyperior ?
    Needed a very solid switch to Victini and Darmanitran and a good Stealth Rock setuper. Also needed something against enemy Froslass lead as I really don't like speed ties. Rock Blast is perfect for that purpose. Breaking through pokemons under sub like Honchkrow is also a great thing. Finally having a pokemon that is almost impossible to OHKO and can switch in more or less any physical attack without slowing down the offensive rhythm was also an amazing thing.

    • Moveset, Nature, EVs :
    EV spread built especially to be able to take Hidden Power Grass from Life Orb Modest Zapdos. Not much to say about the rest, wanted it to be as offensive as possible. Rock Blast to break through subs and sashes, Earthquake for the Stab.
    Dragon Tail is amazing, as Rhyperior forces really a lot of switches and so if you already have your spikes, it can become really annoying for the opponnent.

    • In game :
    There are 2 possible scenarios :
    1) He has a terrible machup and won't do a lot, OR I need to setup Stealth Rock really early even if it means sacrificing Rhyperior. In that case I just setup rocks and throw it away.
    2) He's a huge annoyance for the opp. In that case I will save him and switch a lot on him abusing Dragon Tail.
    But in both cases Rhyperior won't be used in late game and won't switch a lot, as he allows easy enemy switches on rapid spinners and forces me to switch on Cofagrigus. I don't like switching on my finishers. I actually don't like switching at all with this team.

    • Rhyperior's place in the team's Balance :
    Takes on most of physical non water or grass assaults. Can kill the very dangerous Substitute users like Raikou or Honchkrow.

    • Other options ?
    -Roar over Dragon Tail. But as Roar is better only against Substitutes and I already have Rock Blast for most of Substitude user pokemons, it is not a good option.
    -I've been thinking about using a berry that reduces the power of water or grass attacks, but Leftovers do look better at the end. If it could do some serious damage against stuff like Virizion, Blastoise or Milotic, I would probably go for it, but right now Leftovers look like a better option


    [​IMG]


    "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong."

    Mordin Solus (Shaymin) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature (+SAtk -Atk)
    - Seed Flare
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Earth Power
    - Synthesis​

    • Why using Shaymin ?
    Even the most agressive team needs something bulky enough to take on some attacks. Rhyperior and Shaymin are here for that. I will mostly switch between these two guys and they are really completing each other defensively. But that's not all Shaymin is here for, just like for Rhyperior I needed something bulky AND super strong at the same time. Virizion might seem to fit better overall, but I needed something that can hit extremely strong without having to setup first, something that could OHKO any Blastoise and make a huge amount of damage at more or less anything that does not resist its attacks, including on stuff like Sableye, Gligar or Hitmontop, which is really important. Again Shaymin is also a pokemon almost impossible to OHKO in UU, which is really helpfull for a hyper offense team if something didn't go according to the plan. And finally Shaymin also hugely benefits from spikes, being able to 2HKO Snorlax, Umbreon and some forms of Roserade (aka its main counters) with the right amount of them. You'd be surprised to see how much teams Shaymin can unexpectedly wreck.

    • Moveset, Nature, EVs :
    Timid could be good mostly for Arcanine, but then even with the Life Orb some forms of Blastoise can avoid being one shot by Seed Flare, which is really bad (more details in the "In game" part). But anyways, with the Life Orb and the Modest nature Shaymin becomes a real powerhouse being able to OHKO really a lot of stuff in UU and 2HKO even more stuff. Hidden Power ice was good for allowing to outspeed some stuff like non scarfed Rotom (there is a speed tie) and for dealing some damage to Crobat, but as Rhyperior is an extremely solid switch to both I finally decided to go for Hidden Power fire for Bronzong, which otherwise can be a real pain in the ass for the team. Actually HP fire does not help THAT much against bim, but considering how much of an annoyance Bronzong can be to the team, having at least one super effective move is really good.
    Synthesis gives Shaymin a surprisingly good staying power and is easy to use because Shaymin will force a lot of switches by the fact that a lot of pokemons are completely powerless against it.

    • In game :
    If Blastoise comes on Froslass, (which he will almost always do) and if Destiny Bond does not work or if I decide that I need spikes more than Destiny Bonding Blastoise, then Shaymin will come immediately after Froslass is dead and kill Blastoise, or make it switch, in both cases it is not bad, because it means I already have some spikes (and rocks too most of the time) and you can trust me that not much stuff likes switching on a Life Orbed Seed Flare with hazards on the field. Otherwise Shaymin will be switching on all the Will-O-Wisps and on some walls like Sableye, Gligar, Rhyperior, Empoleon or Swampert. And also sadly Shaymin is my best answer to Bronzong..

    • Shaymin's place in the team's Balance
    Completes Rhyperior by bringing water and grass resistances. Is also a status absorber thanks to Natural Cure (although will mostly absorb Will-O-Wisp as absorbing sleep is too risky and absorbing Toxic not that usefull)

    • Other options ?
    Hidden Power Ice over Hidden Power Fire. I've already said why I ended up picking HP fire though.
    Rest could be used over Synthesis, but it forces me to switch and as I said this team doesn't really like switching.
    A Choice Spec could be a good option, but I need versatility and the ability to use Synthesis more than rough power.
    Finally, Virizion over Shaymin could really bring a lot to the team especially in mid/late game, but I really can't play without Shaymin's brute power, it would cost me just too much in early game.


    B)The "Sweeping Core"




    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    "Amonkira, Lord of Hunters, grant that my hands be steady, my aim be true, and my feet swift. And should the worst come to pass, grant me forgiveness."

    Thane Krios (Cofagrigus) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk / 4 Def
    Quiet Nature (+SAtk, -Spe)​
    IVs : 2 Atk / 2 Spe
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick Room
    - Nasty Plot
    - Hidden Power Fighting

    • Why using Cofagrigus ?
    Because it fits just perfectly. Not only it can stop spinning, which was the main goal of having a second ghost, but also it can sweep a whole team with the right amount of entry hazards. Also it hits on the special side, which can be really nice against really defensive teams, because they will usually have only one check (Snorlax or Umbreon) to both Cofagrigus and Shaymin and with spikes and Shaymin's pressure, Cofagrigus will usually sweep this kind of teams with ease, which Sharpedo and Heracross will have much more trouble do, as this teams usually run Gligar, Bronzong or other stuff that can be hard to break through.

    • Movepool, Nature, EVs :
    Not much to explain right here I think.. 2 EVs in Atk and Speed to weaken Foul Play and still have a maxed out HP Fighting.

    • In game :
    Cofagrigus is probably the only one of the finishing core that is not supposed to come right after a pokemon has been KOd, it will switch on the rapid spinners (if Shaymin and Froslass failed to take them down) or the Fighting pokemons (there is one in almost every UU team) and will setup after that to do as much damage as possible. If everything went according to the plan, after that I won't be needing to anti-spin anymore. Also, the fact that it is almost impossible to OHKO will allow me to also use it as an "emergency" sweeper, meaning that if something on which I cannot possibly send out Sharpedo and Heracross and if the "spiking core" is down, Cofagrigus will still manage to setup. Maybe not fully, maybe just the Trick Room, but even that can be a lifesaver if we're speaking about something like Yanmega or other fast scarfed pokemons like Meanshao as for an example.

    • Cofagrigus's place in the team's Balance :
    I won't be switching a lot on him, as on any other member of the "sweeping core", but still, some switches are allowed on him : switches on rapid-spinners and Fighting pokemons (which otherwise can wreck my team)

    • Other options :
    -Quite often I have considering running the Lum Berry on it to protect me from Blastoise's Scald burns and Toxics, but Leftovers turn really a lot of 2HKOs and 3HKOs into 3HKOs and 4HKOs..
    -I could also weaken my Hidden Power to make it even slower, but I didn't find that to be necessary as until now I haven't encountered a single slower pokemon that can make a difference (including Trick Room users)






    [​IMG]

    "Does this unit... Have a soul ?"

    Legion (Heracross) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit​

    • Why using Heracross ?
    I needed a super fast pokemon that can immediately make some damage without needing a single turn to setup. Also I needed an alternative physical sweeper to Sharpedo that could break the teams Sharpedo couldn't. With Moxie, you can quite often finish a damaged team even by being locked on a move, because even its counters can't always stop it if he got some Moxie boosts, especially with spikes. Even if slower, it hits stronger than Sharpedo. Finally, Heracross has a lot of extremely good resistances and a good buylk, which means that he can be used as an emergency switch to some stuff, especially in late game

    • Moveset, Nature, EVs :
    I don't need the Jolly nature as I have some excellent switches to Darmanitran (Rhyperior) and Heracross (Cofagrigus).
    The EVs are classic I guess.
    But what could be surprising to some of you is Pursuit. Why using Pursuit ? Actually for only 1 purpose : Chandelure. This pokemon is a plain annoyance in early game and as the opponnent will almost always have a perfect counter to Heracross in early game and will know that I'm scarfed, he will almost always switch out because Pursuit is almost never used on Heracross.

    • In game :
    I put Heracross in the "sweeping core" but actually that's not really accurate... Even though Heracross will be used as a finisher in some battles, in others it will come in early or mid game to make some damage or force some switches. If something like offensive Life Orbed Zapdos makes a kill in the spiking core and Rhyperior cannot take it on anymore, I will go on Heracross to Stone Edge it. Same goes for Chandelure and Pursuit. If Shaymin is KO I might also come on Bronzong to put it on KO range for Sharpedo.

    • Heracross's place in the team's Balance :
    As an emergency can be switched on any move that does not KO it if he can return some damage to the said pokemon. But it really won't happen a lot. Is also my main switch to Virizion (at least once or twice, after that I have to count on the spikes or try to revenge kill it)

    • Other options ?
    A Jolly nature would help against some Darmanitrans and other Heracrosses, but as I said before, I have two really reliable switches to these 2 guys.


    [​IMG]

    "I don't know if they can feel fear, but we're damned sure going to give them the opportunity. Hit them hard. One way or another, it ends here ! "

    Commander Shepard (Sharpedo) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 6 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Waterfall
    - Crunch
    - Protect
    - Earthquake​

    • Why using Sharpedo ?
    Sharpedo + Spikes is a well known combo, mostly because it is extremely effective. But in a team this much agressive, with a strategy that almost always allows you to have your spikes on the field, Sharpedo simply becomes a killing machine..

    • Movepool, Nature, EVs :
    Nothing new here I guess..

    • In game :
    There's not much to say about that, Sharpedo is the very last to come out, it will simply sweep the team after the debuffing job has been done by the other pokemons of the team and the spikes. Damn simple, damn effective.

    • Sharpedo's place in the team's Balance :
    N/A. Switching on Sharpedo is not allowed.

    • Other options ?
    -Ice Fang or Zen Headbutt could be used over Earthquake to hit Flygon and Virizion, but without Earthquake it happens that I can be stopped by even a weakened Empoleon (between others), while a weakened Flygon or Virizion will quickly go down even without a super effective move.



    Team Export (open)
    Legion (Heracross) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Moxie
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Megahorn
    - Stone Edge
    - Pursuit

    Thane Krios (Cofagrigus) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Mummy
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SAtk
    Quiet Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SAtk / 30 SDef / 2 Spd
    - Nasty Plot
    - Shadow Ball
    - Trick Room
    - Hidden Power [Fighting]

    Mordin Solus (Shaymin) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Natural Cure
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Seed Flare
    - Earth Power
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Synthesis

    Urdnot Grunt (Rhyperior) (M) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Solid Rock
    EVs: 152 HP / 104 Atk / 252 SDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Stealth Rock
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Blast
    - Dragon Tail

    Tali'Zorah (Froslass) (F) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Cursed Body
    EVs: 4 Def / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Destiny Bond
    - Ice Beam
    - Spikes
    - Taunt

    Commander Shepard (Sharpedo) (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Speed Boost
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Crunch
    - Waterfall
    - Protect
    - Earthquake




    Note : in the team preview, Heracross is the lead and Froslass and Rhyperior are in the middle of the team, that's not much I know, but this way I don't give my opponnent a single clue about whom I will lead with between Froslass and Rhyperior.



    In Conclusion

    With this my second BW UU RMT on Smogon ends. I just wanted to apologize for all the grammar mistakes I have probably made, I tried my best but I do know my english is far from being perfect yet ! Thank you for reading and I hope you enjoyed.
  2. Gabranth

    Gabranth

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    273
    IV) The Threat List


    Note : This will be a little special threat-list due to the extremely offensive aspect of the team. What you have to ask yourself is not if a pokemon can make damage to the team, but how can it damage the team's strategy. Also please note that I will be speaking about the lead machups here and that when I say "is not able to setup" it means that I won't be switching with Rhyperior but just Dragon Tailing and Taunting with Froslass. I consider a pokemon can setup if it can do so on Shaymin or has a way to avoid getting Dragon Tailed/Taunted
    Blue : Annoys the "Spiking Core"
    Orange : Can stop the sweep of one or more pokemons from the "Sweeping Core"

    Red : Higly annoys the spiking core OR equals to Blue + Orange
    Green : Not a huge threat

    Show Hide
    [​IMG]Aerodactyl:
    • Life Orb : can't really KO anything, is KO'd by every pokemon of the team. If it is in the opponnent's team I will lead with Rhyperior just in case.
    [​IMG]Ambipom:
    • All-Out Attacker : Rhyperior laughs at its face, Cofagrigus does not fear it, can't revenge kill Sharpedo with Fake Out because of protect. Again, if in the opp's team, will lead with Rhyperior.
    [​IMG]Arcanine:
    • Offensive : Definitely an annoyance. Rhyperior wrecks it, but it is dangerous if saved for late game. Extremespeed can stop Sharpedo's sweep, KO a damaged (or with reduced defense) Heracross and even Cofagrigus does not really likes taking a Flare Blitz. Although, with all the entry hazards and recoil, it won't last long.
    [​IMG]Azelf:
    • Nasty Plot : can't possibly setup, if it does is easily revenge killed
    • All-Out Attacker : I will try using pivoting and pursuit with Heracross, in the worst case scenario it will make a kill, won't stop Sharpedos, Cofagrigus's or Heracross's sweep.
    • Dual Screens / Lead : Ugh.. This one is a huge pain in the ass
    • Choice Band : Will gain a little advantage with U-turn in early game, but it's all it will do.
    [​IMG]Azumarill:
    • Choice Band : Will come out early because of Rhyperior and will get stopped by Shaymin. Does not really stops a full life Sharpedo, is KOd with spikes. Not a big deal.
    [​IMG]Bisharp:
    • Swords Dance : is annoying for Cofagrigus, otherwise won't do a lot of damage because won't be really able to setup.
    [​IMG]Chandelure:
    • Substitute : Rhyperior with Rock Blast and won't really be able to setup or to stop the sweep of any pokemon.
    • Choice Scarf : A real pain in the ass in early game. It can spam Shadow Ball like a motherfucker without taking any risks as it 2HKOs my whole team. It will be really annoying to spike with it on the field, especially if the opp leads with it. If it leads against Rhyperior I can immediately go into Heracross and hope that Pursuit will work, otherwise I will lose Froslass while having setup only 1 spike..
    • Choice Specs : Gets outspeed by Froslass, which means I will be able to Destiny Bond it or put another spike if lead, if not lead then can't really do anything as Shaymin outspeeds it.
    [​IMG]Cinccino:
    • All-Out Attacker : I've faced it only once I think. And I didn't like it. I will have to use Cofagrigus or Heracross earlier than what I would have liked.
    [​IMG]Cobalion:
    • Swords Dance : Can't really setup on anything. If it does setup, Cofagrigus will stop it. Heracross revenge kills it.
    • Calm Mind : Same, but now even Rhyperior can stop it.
    • Utility : Rhyperior does not feel Close Combat, if lead Froslass taunts it
    [​IMG]Cofagrigus:
    • Nasty Plot + Trick Room : will have to hope to be slower with my own Cofag. Stops Heracross. Otherwise my first switch will be Rhyperior as it can take a super effecite Hidden Power at +2
    • Will-o-Wisp : Stops Heracross but that's about all it does.
    [​IMG]Crobat:
    • Stallbreaker : Rhyperior and can't taunt Froslass that easily because of Ice Beam. Easy to predict and kill with Heracross's Stone Edge.
    • Choice Band : Rhyperior and doesn't stop the sweep of any pokemon.
    [​IMG]Darmanitan:
    • Choice Scarf : If I see it in the team preview, will lead with Rhyperior. It won't last until late game, but if it does, all it could do would be revenge killing Heracross if it's Jolly or if it wins the speed tie.
    • Life Orb : Same but does not revenge kill Heracross
    [​IMG]Durant:
    • Hone Claws : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Choice Band : Same
    [​IMG]Eelektross:
    • Special Attacker : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Coil : Same
    [​IMG]Empoleon :
    • SubPetaya / Agility : Won't be able to setup, if it does can be stopped by Shaymin if does not run Ice Beam.
    • Choice Specs : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Escavalier:
    • Choice Band : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Specially Defensive : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Flygon :
    • Choice Scarf : If I don't manage to damage it even a little bit, then Sharpedo won't be able to finish the team, which is annoying indeed. Revenge kills Heracross and I will also need to double protect if Sharpedo and Flygon are the 2 last pokemons remaining.
    • Choice Band : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep.
    • Mixed Attacker : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Froslass:
    • Utility : I don't like speed ties, so I will lead with Rhyperior against it. The only annoying thing is that Rock Blast needs to hit at least 3 times to KO it.
    [​IMG]Gallade:
    • Swords Dance : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Choice Band : Same
    • Choice Scarf : Same
    • Bulk Up : Same
    [​IMG]Galvantula:
    • Special Attacker : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Golurk:
    • Tank : All it does is blocking Heracross a little bit, but with Shaymin as a perfect switch I can hardly consider it as an annoyance.
    [​IMG]Gorebyss:
    • Baton Pass : Won't be able to setup anywhere, if it does on Rhyperior, I will just use Dragon Tail. It can cost me Rhyperior, but I will probably already have my rocks and as I said Rhyperior and Froslass are expandable.
    [​IMG]Heracross :
    • Choice Scarf : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep, is completely walled by Cofagrigus
    • Swords Dance : Same
    • Choice Band : Same
    [​IMG]Honchkrow:
    • Life Orb : This one is a bitch.. Even Rhyperior takes huge damage on Brave Bird.. If I manage to destroy it in early or mid game or if Rhyperior is alive then it's ok, but if not, it can stop all 3 of my sweepers if it correctly uses Sucker Punch.
    • Choice Scarf : Never saw it.. Would be absolutely walled by Rhyperior.
    [​IMG]Houndoom :
    • Mixed Attacker : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep. Rhyperior can take one grass knot.
    • Nasty Plot : Can't really setup anywhere.
    [​IMG]Kingdra:
    • Substitute + Dragon Dance : Can't really setup anywhere as I will immediately Taunt or Dragon Tail every Kingdra I see
    • Rain Dance : This one is a bit more annoying if used in a rain team. I will try to waste as much rain turns as possible with Shaymin and pivoting, but of course if I don't let it setup anything it would be much better.
    • Offensive Dragon Dance : Same as sub DD
    • Choice Specs : Will switch on Shaymin and will maybe make one surprise with Draco Meteor, but that's about it
    • ChestoRest : Same as sub DD
    [​IMG]Krookodile:
    • Choice Scarf : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Bulk Up : Same + easily revenge killed + cannot really setup
    • Choice Band : Same + easily revenge killed if necessary
    [​IMG]Lilligant:
    • Quiver Dance : Can put Rhyperior at sleep and that's about it as if it does this I will imediatly switch into Heracross. Rhyperior will already have setup the rocks as it will come on Rhyperior only with a switch or as a revenge kill.
    [​IMG]Machamp:
    • Subchamp : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep, gets stoped by Cofagrigus
    • Bulk Up : Same
    [​IMG]Meloetta:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind : One of the best counters to Cofagrigus.. Stopping Cofagrigus is about all it does but well, it's already annoying enough.
    • Offensive Calm Mind : With spikes it will lose against Cofagrigus if it has already setup.
    [​IMG]Mew:
    • Nasty Plot : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep, can't really setup.
    • Swords Dance : Same
    • Support : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Baton Pass : Can't really setup.
    [​IMG]Mienshao
    • All-Out Attacker : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep, gets blocked by Cofagrigus
    • Substitute + Baton Pass : Won't be able to setup.
    • Choice Scarf : if Cofagrigus is dead and Heracross on KO range, in late game I will have to rely on succeding a double protect, which is not really a great thing..
    • Swords Dance : Same as all out attacker
    [​IMG]Mismagius :
    • Nasty Plot : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Nidoking :
    • Life Orb : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep (Heracross destroys it with spikes and Moxie boost)
    • Choice Scarf : Same
    [​IMG]Ninjask :
    • Baton Pass : Rock Blast and Dragon Tail, make him absolutely useless.
    [​IMG]Omastar :
    • Shell Smash : Won't be able to setup, if it does can be revenge killed.
    [​IMG]Porygon-Z:

    • Agility : Can't setup, if it still manages to do AND gets the special attack boost, it can become a little annoying then
    • Nasty Plot : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Choice Specs : Same
    • Choice Scarf : Same
    [​IMG]Raikou:
    • Substitute + Calm Mind : Rhyperior. Even if it runs HP Grass Rhyperior can take a hit. Can't really setup anyways and is being Revenge Killed by Heracross or even Sharpedo
    • Life Orb : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Choice Scarf : Can surprise me and kill Sharpedo in late game if I don't suceed 2 Protects, or if I'm at +1 and don't know that it's scarfed yet.
    • Choice Specs : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep. Can't spam Volt Switch because of Rhyperior.
    [​IMG]Rhyperior:
    • Tank : I will have to lead with my own Rhyperior, setup rocks and then switch on Shaymin.
    • Choice Band : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Rock Polish : Can't really setup, even if it does can be stopped or revenge killed.
    [​IMG]Roserade:
    • Offensive : Can't switch on Shaymin : Seed Flare + HP Fire kills it
    • Defensive : I don't like facing this one if I had to lead with Rhyperior (which will often be the case as it is frequently paired with Victini with Darmanitran), because it is one of the only pokemons that can OHKO Rhyperior AND Shaymin at the same time (Sludge Bomb), Froslass is doing pretty good against it though.
    [​IMG]Rotom-C:
    • Choice Scarf : Shaymin
    • Choice Specs : Same
    • Utility : Same
    [​IMG]Rotom-H:
    • Choice Scarf : Rhyperior destroys it
    • Choice Specs : Same
    [​IMG]Sceptile:
    • Swords Dance : The good thing is most of the time Rhyperior will be able to take a hit and don't let it setup. If it manages to setup, Cofagrigus can save me with Trick Room AND Mummy (canceling Unburden)
    • Special Attacker : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Scolipede:
    • Spikes : Loses against both Froslass and Rhyperior.
    • Swords Dance : Can't really setup, is wrecked by Rhyperior.
    [​IMG]Scrafty:
    • Bulk Up : Can't really setup on anything, does not make a lot of damage against Rhyperior.
    • Dragon Dance : Same
    [​IMG]Sharpedo:
    • Physical Attacker / Mixed Attacker : I will have to save Shaymin or Heracross at full life to be able to Revenge Kill it. I can also use Mummy if there is no other alternative and revenge kill it with my own Sharpedo after that.
    [​IMG]Shaymin:
    • Defensive : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep. If comes at Rhyperior I can safely switch on my own Shaymin or at Heracross
    • Life Orb : Same, except that it might manage to beat my own Shaymin, but that's not a big deal.
    [​IMG]Sigilyph:
    • Boosting Sweeper : Can't setup on anything. All it can do is burning Rhyperior, which is not a big deal.
    [​IMG]Smeargle:
    • Hazards Settler : Will lead, I will lead with Froslas and taunt. If it doesn't lead then will lose it sash on my spikes/rocks and become absolutely worthless.
    • Baton Pass : Same
    [​IMG]Snorlax:
    • Choice Band : Will try to stop Shaymin, which will weaken him enough to be killed by Cofagrigus.
    • Curse : Same
    [​IMG]Suicune:
    • Offensive / Crocune : Shaymin destroys it. If I have the right amount of spikes can't stop Sharpedo, Heracross, or Cofagrigus.
    [​IMG]Togekiss:
    • Defensive Nasty Plot : Rhyperior has nothing to fear from it.
    • Offensive Nasty Plot : Same
    • ParaFlinch : Same
    • Choice Scarf : Same
    [​IMG]Tornadus:
    • Rain Dance : Will be able to setup its rain, but will be killed at the exact same moment by Rhyperior
    • Bulk Up : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep. Can't break through Rhyperior.
    [​IMG]Venomoth:
    • Baton Pass / Offensive Quiver Dance : I will have to play really carefully with Rhyperior, because if I let it put Rhyperior to sleep and I take a lot of sleeping turns it can hurt me bad. But well, usually I don't let it come at Rhyperior and even if it does, Rhyperior can take a hit from most of the special attackers on which it could baton pass even at +1, which leaves me 4 turns to wake up and Dragon Tail (Sleep Powder / Quiver Dance / Baton pass / Attack I can usually take). As you can see it can never setup more than one Quiver Dance anyways.
    [​IMG]Victini:
    • Choice Band / Choice Scarf : Rhyperior wrecks it.
    • Mixed Attacker : Will lure Rhyperior and kill it with Grass Knot.. Won't have my rocks for the whole game.. That's never a good thing..
    [​IMG]Virizion
    • Calm Mind : Virizion is the only pokemon in the whole UU metagame that resists all the 3 attacks I run on Sharpedo. The good thing is its not that bulky and with the right predictions I can even switch on Froslass (as it will mostly come out in early game against Rhyperior). Heracross is also a solid switch. And still, it is annoying.
    • Swords Dance : Same + gets even stopped by Cofagrigus
    [​IMG]Weavile:
    • Swords Dance : Loses against Rhyperior. Is easily being Revenge Killed.
    • All Out Attacker : Will pursuit Froslass by which it will reduce the amount of my spikes on the field :/
    [​IMG]Yanmega:
    • Choice Specs : Easily stopped / Revenge Killed depending on the move it locked itself on.
    • Speed Boost : There you have it. The WORST threat to my team. If Cofagrigus is on KO range (which might often be the case in late game) and if it comes out before my Sharpedo it will simply destroy my team.
    [​IMG]Zapdos:
    • Life Orb : WHY can't I never build a team that would not be weak to Zapdos ??? It takes a hit from Sharpedo even with the rocks, beats Shaymin and it is enough for Rhyperior to be damaged even a little bit that it beats it too.. I will usually try to Ice Beam it with Froslass, or to Stone Edge it with Heracross on a HP Grass, will be annoying..
    • Choice Specs : They run HP Flight, which means Rhyperior will stop it with ease.
    • SubRoost : They don't run HP Grass, Rhyperior breaks through the sub with Rock Blast.
    [​IMG]Zoroark:
    • Choice Specs : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Nasty Plot : Same
    • All Out Attacker : Same
    UU Defensive Threats

    [​IMG]Blastoise:
    • Utility : Even though the whole spiking core is oriented on not letting it sweep, if I fail to kill it with Shaymin I will have to get my Cofagrigus Burned / Poisoned..
    [​IMG]Bronzong:
    • Tank : Very annoying in early game, does not fear spikes and can take a hit from both Sharpedo and Heracross.. Froslass can't setup spikes witch ease against him and Rhyperior can't touch it.. I will usually try to Taunt + Destiny Bond it, even if it means I have no spikes.
    • Dual Screens : Yeah, screens are not a big deal as I will just spam Dragon Tail and / or Taunt and not let anything setup
    • Calm Mind : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Claydol:
    • Support : Really not a dangerous rapid spinner. More dangerous than Hitmontop, less dangerous than Blastoise. Get's one shot by Shaymin, loses to Froslass, is weak to a stab of 5 from 6 of my pokemons.
    [​IMG]Clefable:
    • Support : If it manages to survive to late game, can annoy Sharpedo a little bit, but it will usually kill itself on Shaymin or Cofagrigus before it comes to that
    • Life Orb : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Cresselia:
    • Defensive : Is weak to a stab from all the "Sweeping Core"
    • Dual Screens : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Substitute + Calm Mind : Can't setup on anything, if it does then can't do a lot of damage anyways.
    [​IMG]Cryogonal:
    • Rapid Spin : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep.
    [​IMG]Dusclops:
    • ResTalk : Walls Heracross pretty good, but that's about it. My main switch will be Shaymin.
    [​IMG]Empoleon:
    • Specially Defensive : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Ferroseed:
    • Spiker : Loses to both Froslass and Rhyperior, can't do anything against Shaymin.
    [​IMG]Gligar:
    • Physically Defensive : See Dusclops
    • Baton Pass : Won't be able to setup
    [​IMG]Hitmontop:
    • Rapid Spin : The less dangerous of all the rapid spinners as I can switch into Cofagrigus and setup without fearing anything more than Toxic. Is also weak to spikes which does not helps it to switch a lot.
    [​IMG]Milotic:
    • Physically Defensive : Can be a little bit annoying, although it really can't do anything to Shaymin and if it has been weakend enough, the "Sweeping Core" won't have any trouble to break through.
    • ResTalk : Same
    [​IMG]Nidoqueen:
    • Special Attacker : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep.
    • Toxic Spikes : If possible I will taunt it to or KO it before it can setup a layer Toxic Spikes on the field. If it comes on Rhyperior I will immediately use Earthquake, meaning there will be only 1 layer of Toxic Spikes on the field, which is not that bad. I won't be using Heracross a lot until it's dead.
    [​IMG]Porygon2:

    • Defensive Duck : It won't be that easy to be weakened, although by forcing enough switches with Heracross and pressuring it with Shaymin and COfagrigus, sooner or later it will break.
    • Trick Room : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Quagsire:
    • Curse : Is being wrecked by Shaymin, weak to spikes and is not that bulky..
    • Physically Defensive : Same
    [​IMG]Qwilfish:
    • Utility : See Toxic Spikes Nidoqueen
    [​IMG]Registeel:
    • Tank : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Sableye:
    • Prankster : More or less the same as Gligar and Dusclops. If the opponnent runs a lot of stuff like that and if Shaymin is KO (which won't be always the case as Shaymin is surviving pretty good against stall teams) Cofagrigus is the one that will break through.
    [​IMG]Slowbro:
    • Support : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep. Is weak to 4 stabs from 6..
    • Calm Mind : Same
    • Offensive : Same
    [​IMG]Slowking:
    • Physically Defensive : Its just basically a worst Slowbro..
    • Utility Counter : Same
    [​IMG]Swampert:
    • Tank : Can take a hit from Sharpedo, although is weak to spikes and will come out in early game, which means that it will be put on KO range quite easily.
    • Choice Band : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    [​IMG]Tangrowth:
    • Tank : It's really hard to take it down.. I hate Regenerator users.. Although if I have Spikes + Stealth Rocks, it will cancel Regenerator and Shaymin can make a lot of damage to it. But if the "Spiking Core" fails weakening it, then it can become a huge threat.
    [​IMG]Umbreon:
    • Wish Support : Will be annoying to both Sharpedo and Cofagrigus, thankfully it is weak to entry hazards and is usually the main Shaymin counter, which means that it won't be that hard to weaken.
    [​IMG]Uxie:
    • Dual Screens : Does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard, does not stop any sweep
    • Support : Same
    • Substitute + Calm Mind : Same
    [​IMG]Whimsicott:
    • Prankster : Is weak to Ice beam and to Shaymin, which means that it does not stop me from setuping any entry hazard.
    [​IMG]Xatu:
    • Support : Is weak to both Rock Blast and Ice Beam, which means that anti-spiking won't be easy for it.




    To be completed soon
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2013
  3. shiranai

    shiranai

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2012
    Messages:
    114
    Amazing team you have here! I really liked it!

    There are a few, really few, things I wish to say about the team.
    First is Shaymin; HP Fire is a filler, as you said, and Bronzong can be annoying. I really don't like to run Hidden Power unless you able to 4x something or damage a threat for the mon (Shaymin can only 3HKO Bronzong, and so do Sharpedo and Heracross with either their STABs). This said, I think Leech Seed could be an option in place of HP Fire: Leech Seed can force many siwtches, while being able to hit the steel types Toxic wouln't hit, and without a clear field to freely switch you'll do some damage, be with Seed or with the hazards.
    Also, in Sharpedo, a mixed set could be viable, but defining a set would be kinda hard, depending which threats you will be aiming to hit, since without Earthquake Sharpedo won't hit Empoleon, while in a mixed set with Ice Beam a STAB should be dropped... Well, maybe keeping the physical one is still a better idea.
    Last thing is Rhyperior's Dragon Tail. I kinda don't like it not because it doesn't pass through Substitute, which isn't a problem at all to Rhyperior, but the 90 accuracy. This can be only me, but this kind of move seems to miss when it is most needed. But not a big issue at all.

    So, this is what I had to say. Congrats for your team, and I hope I could be of some help!
  4. Gabranth

    Gabranth

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    273
    That is actually a pretty good idea. The thing is that it would make Shaymin completely powerless against Roserade, which is not so great considering the fact that this team does not like switching and that Shaymin is the one supposed to take on Grass and Water sweepers. But I might try it over Synthesis, because forcing more switches might indeed be good, it would also lure the opponnent into thinking it's the classic defensive Sub seeder. Will test it out to see how it works.
    I have also considered a special set on Sharpedo, especially for Zapdos and Flygon, the thing is, missing Hydro Pump is really really not fun and you need it over Surf to make some kills..
    And yes missing Dragon Tail can indeed be annoying, but as I said, losing Rhyperior is not a big deal most of the times, if I use Dragon Tail it probably means the job has already been done and I'm just using it for some "bonus" damage, so yeah, it's not the kind of move which will make me lose a game if I miss it.
    Tbh, missing Seed Flare on a rapid spinner (happens waaaaaaaaaay more than what I'd want :/ ) is the real bad thing, but can't do much about that..

    Thanks for your rate !


    Edit : Finished the threat list.
  5. -Manu-

    -Manu-

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2010
    Messages:
    635
    First I want to thanks Gabranth to post a so good team.
    With this team we can see the power of Froslass in this tier. Nobody can spin or stop it when she's surrounded with good sweeper like this. Finally you play Cofagrigus (I thinking Cofag was gay) , double ghost it's such a pain in UU more with Shaymin and Heracross to set NPCofag or SharpRape. So GG for this great building :)
  6. fatty

    fatty
    is a Tiering Contributor

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    853
    i like the team, but it seems like you have to play incredibly well to not get fucked by certain threats. opposing ghosts like chandelure and cofag will destroy you if allowed to get in easily. chandelure will take something out every time it comes in, and if an opposing cofag sets up before yours it's pretty much gg, only being able to "rely" on sharpedo. i also don't like how your only way of really handling abomasnow is scarf heracross, who will only take one blizz before being ko'd next time. furthermore, watch out for electrics with hp grass because w/o rhyperior being able to check raikou / zapdos, you're in for a really tough time.

    honestly, i'm not the best with offensive teams so if you can handle these threats by imposing your will on the opponent, then kudos. all i will say though is that if you really wanted to help against threats and give the team more of backbone, i would replace cofag. dual ghosts was cool during dpp uu, but the spinners in uu suck so hard that running one spin block is more than enough, especially when you can keep up the offensive pressure so blastoise can only switch in roughly once. running two ghosts is just stacking weaknesses i feel, and that slot could be used much better. but eh, if you feel cofag is integral to your success, feel free to keep using it.

    just my two cents.
  7. kokoloko

    kokoloko supersmooth
    is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Smogon Media Contributoris a Past SPL Winner
    UU Leader

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    3,510
    heh its funny how this team is used by so many people and no one actually posted it until now

    im not saying you stole it btw, its just that both RT and myself came up with slight variations if it individually (he insists i copied his but he sucks so i'd never do that) and its kind of amusing to see we were not the only ones lol

    my version uses cb snorlax over scarf heracross and scarf darmanitan over sharpedo.

    this solves the problem of flat out losing to opposing otr cofagrigus in two ways: it doesnt have heracross to set up on anymore and lax is a great check to it. cb snorlax is also amazing with tr up, which is cool. scarf darma gives you a nice scarf user/late-game sweeper/hail wrecker all in one (which snorlax also does).

    you should try that version and see how it works for you. i've found a more bulky-offensive approach to the team to be more effective overall tbh.
  8. clail

    clail

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    12
    wow. I've been looking through uu teams to see if i could find one to inspire me in uu. and this looks like a great idea.
    only suggestions i can think of would be timid heracross
    and also, a mixed sharpedo set.
    while sharpedos special attack may seem weak, fully invested, it gives you a surprisingly powerful hydro pump and ice beam. which is backed up by a crunch or earthquake. best of all is that because of speed boost, you don't have to invest all 252 of your other ev's into speed. which leaves you plenty for attack.
    it plays somewhat differently than your current sharpedo, but i find it to be very strong
  9. Gabranth

    Gabranth

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    273
    Thanks bro =D

    Well first of all, I've been using almost only hyper offense teams since the 5 years I play pokemon, so I'm doing ok with them. And yes, you're 100% right in what you're saying about ghosts and electricts, I've basically said the same in the threat list. I cannot agree about Hail Team though (which makes me think that I don't remember seeing Abomasnow in UU's threat list, I think it should be added..) , I really don't think to have a problem against them, as they are extremely vulnerable to entry hazards and I run hidden power fire on Shaymin which means that hail teams basically don't have any safe switch on it.
    Next about the thow ghosts.. The thing is that I really have to rely on my entry hazards to ensure a clean Sharpedo sweep, which means that if I don't have a ghost and I drop the pressure even for a little moment and let the opponnent spin, I've basically lost the game, I can't afford that..


    Well, that is not really surprising when you know how great is Froslass in the actual UU metagame ! I've seen others using the same kind of core too and I don't think any of us has stolen anything from others lol
    My goal was basically to build an extremely agressive team, that almost does not allow any switch on the half of the team. And well, if you don't run Sharpedo, it means the offensive concept is really different, what I think to understund from what you said, is that your team is not supposed to sacrifice every pokemon just to maintain the pressure, just like mine does. As long as I have weakened the team enough for a Sharpedo sweep, I don't care about losing every single other pokemon. I'd even say that really a lot of games will start with a 6-1 or a 5-1 against me and will end up as a 1-0 victory for me and that it is just like I plan it to be. Replacing Sharpedo would mean to litteraly change the whole concept of the team. The reason I'm using such an agressive approach is also because I wanted to leave my mark, I didn't want to post a RMT that would not represent my main gameplay style.
    The thing is, I was planning to do an extremely offensive team, which might look weak to some threats if you just look at it like this, but when you see the pressure it gives in game, you see that these weaknesses don't matter all that much.
    CB Snorlax is probably great in your team where your pokemons survive a lot longer and you have a good revenge kill in Darmanitran, but the thing is that in my team it would allow a lot of stuff to setup way too easily and with a team as agressive as mine it would often cost me the game..
    Although I do agree it would help a lot against ghosts and even against Zapdos. I will try it out to see if it doesn't reduce the pressure too much !
    I might also consider Darmanitran over Heracross because your arguments were convincing indeed. But I'm effrayed that would leave me absolutely nothing for scarfed Chandelure..



    First of all I'm glad you liked the team ! Next about the suggestions.. As said in the team, Jolly (I think you ment Jolly) Heracross is indeed an option, but I went for Adamant for the reasons explained in the "Other Options" part.
    Mixed Sharpedo is amazing and Hydro Pump / Ice Beam would greatly help against let's say Zapdos and Flygon, but there is one big problem, which is the 80% accuracy :/ Sharpedo is my main finisher, when it comes on the field I'm supposed to end the battle no matter what, I really really really can't afford to miss a move at this moment.. So I do have considered running a Mixed version, but knowing my luck, I did not took the risk. Hell I already miss all my Seed Flares against rapid spinner xD


    Anyways, thank you all for your rates guys, because not only they brough up some intresting points, but also I feel that the fact they were so accurate means that you've more or less carefully read the threat which is the point !
    I hope that despite some grammar mistakes and weaknesses in the team that you may have found, you guys still liked reading this RMT and liked the team. Just don't forget that it is supposed to work a little bit differently then conventual teams as it was ment to be extremely agressive =D
    I would like to show you how it works in battle, should maybe have saved some logs, now that it has been posted, sadly I think it won't work as well anymore.. In part because of Pursuit on Heracross which won't be a surprise anymore and won't allow me catching Chandelures..
  10. f3armywrath

    f3armywrath

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2010
    Messages:
    3
    Hey Gabranth.
    Wow. Just wow. This team is godly. I've been trying it out on PS and I got onto the Top 100 in less than 4 hours, starting from neutral. I'm trying to make some tweaks to it so I can stop feeling guilty for taking such an amazing team, and here are some thoughts.

    One of the main problems I face is roserade coming on something that can't kill her, and her putting to sleep one of my sweepers and effectively making it useless. Sometimes, I switch in shaymin to absorb the sleep, but there's not much I can do after that. So, and I know this is going to sound weird, I'm thinking about replacing pursuit on Heracross with Sleep Talk. It would be utterly ridiculous and gimmicky but I feel like it could be a lot of fun and actually end up being somewhat useful. I feel like pursuit right now is more of a filler move than anything, because there's very few things in UU that would get killed by a pursuit that wouldn't get killed by StoneE/MegaH/CC and being locked into a 40 base move is kind of useless for a team that doesn't like to switch much. The only other thing I might play around with is moveset - surprisingly I find myself rarely using earthquake, I prefer to spam dragon tail or use rock blast against Frosslass leads. I'm not sure what I'd fill it with, but I've had some random, weird thoughts that might work (maybe substitute for more dragon tailing trollage? x)) Overall, thanks so so much for an amazing team and for posting this <3
  11. Gabranth

    Gabranth

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2009
    Messages:
    273
    Hi ! Really glad you like the team :)

    Don't feel guilty about using it, that's the point of a RMT, you guys all feel free to use it. I've added the export to prove my good faith !

    And no, don't worry, Sleep Talk on Heracross is not gimmicky and weird, it is a pretty good idea that I myself have considered.

    And yes, there is not much Pursuit does, as I said it actually serves only one and single purpose : killing Chandelure. As for me, Chandelure seemed more annoying in early game than Roserade, but if you feel that you'd rather have a solid switch to Roserade's Sleep Powder and don't want to be Pursuiting Chandelures, Sleep Talk is certainly a viable option.

    Then about Rhyperior. I always felt like Dragon Tail was more of a bonus move than anything. I've been using it only when I was in a really good situation and was ready to sacrifice it. Rhyperior's Earthquake does make quite a lot of damage, but you are right again, it's not the move you will be using the most. Although, you sometimes need a reliable way of making damage, without being scared of Rock Blast not hitting enough times, so I wouldn't use it without Earthquake. But if you are not convinced by what I'm saying, then use Megahorn over Earthquake, not Substitude, it would give Rhyperior a way to damage Bronzong and that would be extremely usefull and would definitely be the move I would run if Rhyperior could learn 5 moves.


    Thanks again for your rate, I hope my answer was explicit enough :)

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