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Oct 28th, 2008, 9:24:50 PM
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coolcoolcool
   
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,352
Plano, TX
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Stratagem Analysis Workshop
[SET]
name: LO Attacker (Levitate) move 1: Calm Mind / Substitute move 2: Paleo Wave move 3: Flamethrower / Ice Beam move 3: Energy Ball / Earth Power / Focus Blast item: Life Orb ability: Levitate nature: Timid evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Utilizing Stratagem's copious Special Attack and Speed, this set focuses on sweeping the opponent's team once their special wall is gone. As Stratagem's most reliable STAB move, after a Calm Mind, Paleo Wave will wreak havoc on anything that does not resist Rock. Energy Ball is useful to hit Swampert and other bulky Waters and Grounds who otherwise wall you. Flamethrower is Stratagem's best option against Scizor, who threatens with STAB Bullet Punch off an excellent attack stat; however, Stratagem can only win an encounter with Scizor if it Flamethrowers on the switch-in. Focus Blast hits Steels as well, though its shaky accuracy is doubtful considering Stratagem's less than stellar defenses. Although it also hurts the flying Dragons, Ice Beam is often unnecessary, as they are already covered by Paleo Wave; it is more useful to damage bulky Ground-types such as Hippowdon. Earth Power can be used to fill in the gaps, hitting non-Levitating Steel-types for super effective damage. Substitute is another option over Calm Mind, protecting against revenge kills while loosing the sheer power of Calm Mind. [SET] name: Sub CM move 1: Substitute move 2: Calm Mind move 3: Paleo Wave / Weather Ball move 4: Earth Power / Flamethrower item: Leftovers nature: Timid ability: Levitate evs: 64 HP / 96 SpA / 96 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] This set plays much like Sub/CM Raikou, except with much better speed and special attack, in exchange for less durability. This set is best used in Sandstorm, because <Rockmon> will become a very fast special tank with all the boosts. The strategy is simple. First, switch in on something you can use as set-up bait, such as a choiced Earthquake or Earth Power. Then, Sub as they bring in a revenge killer or wall. If they bring in something like Blissey, you can continue to set up on it, alternating between Substitute and Calm Mind. If they bring in Scizor, attack it and get out once it breaks your sub. Paleo Wave and Earth Power provide the best coverage, but if bulky waters and Tyranitar aren't a problem, you can run Flamethrower over Earth Power to hit Scizor and Bronzong harder. Be aware that without a sub up, both will still kill you. Weather Ball is a more powerful option than Paleo Wave in Sandstorm, but be aware that when Sandstorm isn't running, Weather Ball is a Base 50 power Normal-type move. The EVs allow for a leftovers number +1, allowing you to use Substitute five consecutive times before having to switch out. Max speed is needed to revenge kill Shaymin-s, since the only things faster than you are Ninjask, Electrode, and scarfed Pokemon. [SET] name: LO Attacker (Technician) move 1: Calm Mind move 2: Ancientpower move 3: Giga Drain move 4: Fire Blast / Vacuum Wave / Air Cutter item: Life Orb ability: Technician nature: Timid evs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] With the invaluable Ground immunity granted by Levitate, people often overlook Stratagem's second ability, Technician. They are mistaken, as Technician allows you to utilize the better abilities of some of the weaker moves at his disposal. The idea is simple. Get in a Calm Mind and do some damage. Ancientpower is your STAB move, which hits Flying-types hard. 10% of the time, you may also get a +1 boost in all stats, setting up Stratagem for a sweep. Giga Drain is one of the biggest assets granted by Technician, as the HP drain will let you last longer and even beat Toxic-less Blissey one-on-one. Your last move is an issue of preference. Fire Blast OHKOs just about everything weak to it after a Calm Mind including Bronzong, but Vacuum Wave lets you get the drop on other Stratagem and is your strongest move against Tyranitar. Lastly, Air Cutter lets Stratagem beat up on its best counters, Hariyama and Revenankh. [SET] name: 4 Attacks (Levitate) move 1: Paleo Wave move 2: Earth Power move 3: Flamethrower move 4: Energy Ball / Ice Beam item: Life Orb nature: Timid ability: Levitate evs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] This Stratagem boasts better coverage than the Calm Mind sets, however it will not be able to power up and therefore is more vulnerable to some opponents. While the first two moves are pretty much set as they give coverage against every OU threat bar Bronzong, the last two slots are really up for grabs. Energy Ball hits Bulky Ground types and Bulky Waters harder than any of Stratagem's other options, while Ice beam hits Dragons hard. Bear in mind that Paleo Wave will hit flying types anyway, so Ice Beam is largely unnecessary. [SET] name: 4 Attacks (Technician) move 1: Ancientpower move 2: Giga Drain move 3: Flamethrower move 4: HP Flying 60/ Vacuum Wave item: Life Orb nature: Timid ability: Levitate evs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spd [SET COMMENTS] Technician allows Stratagem access to some of the more interesting moves it has to offer, in exchange for immunity to Ground. Ancientpower, while only slightly more powerful than Paleo Wave with Technician, has that 10% chance of boosting Stratagem's stats by one stage each, which can make it a beast. Giga Drain is a very useful move for Technician Stratagem, especially if it's carrying Life Orb. Not only is it Stratagem's most powerful move against bulky Ground and Water types (excluding Gyarados), but it can also offset, or even heal off completely, the damage Stratagem takes from Life Orb. Flamethrower is the move of choice for hitting non-Heatran Steel Pokemon, especially Bronzong, which will otherwise wall Stratagem. The last move is up for grabs. HP Flying 60 has a near-guaranteed chance of 2HKO'ing the otherwise dangerous Revenankh (and, by extension, the other bulky Fighting types) with Sandstorm and/or Stealth Rock in play. [SET] name: Choice (Levitate) move 1: Paleo Wave move 2: Earth Power move 3: Flamethrower move 4: Energy Ball / Ice Beam / Thunderbolt item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf nature: Timid / Modest ability: Levitate evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Stratagem already has frightening Special Attack and Speed stats, and this set aims to boost one or the other even more. With Choice Specs and a Timid nature, Stratagem reaches 508 Special Attack and 394 Speed. Paleo Wave provides a reliable STAB option, and with Earth Power and Flamethrower, provides almost perfect coverage for most OU threats. The last slot can be used for coverage; Energy Ball hits bulky Ground-types and bulky Water-types hard. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are more specialized options, but are not recommended since they do not give any superior coverage to the other four moves. With Choice Scarf and a Modest ature, Stratagem only reaches 372 Special Attack, but obtains a Speed stat of 538. This outspeeds Timid Scarf Gengar, and Modest Scarf Shaymin-s. This functions more as a revenge killer than a sweeper, unlike the Choice Specs set. Explosion is another option with both items, but be aware that even with a neutral nature it will fail to OHKO Calm Blissey at full health, and most common switch-ins resist Normal-type moves. Focus Blast is an option over Flamethrower to hit Rock-types and Steel-types harder, but the accuracy generally isn't worth it. [SET] name: Choice (Technician) move 1: Ancientpower move 2: Flamethrower move 3: Giga Drain move 4: Vacuum Wave / Earth Power / Air Cutter item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf nature: Timid / Modest ability: Technician evs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] This set differs from the other Choice Set significantly, because of its ability to beat Blissey. Ancientpower is now your main STAB attack, due to it being boosted by Technician to 90 Base Power. Flamethrower is once again there for coverage, as is Giga Drain. Giga Drain also has the added bonus of healing you, which is why it's a good option on a Choice Specs set: the more damage you do, the more health you regain. In the last slot, Vacuum Wave is another move boosted by Technician, and has priority to beat Heatran. Earth Power is a good option too, but isn't necessary due to Vacuum Wave. Air Cutter is a specialized option to beat Revenankh, but you significantly lose coverage. On a Choice Scarf set, Vacuum Wave should be replaced by Earth Power in the last slot, due to you being faster than almost everything in the metagame. You could also use Hidden Power Fighting 59 if you like the idea of a Fighting-type move more than a Ground-type move. [SET] name: Metal Sound move 1: Metal Sound move 2: Ancientpower move 3: Flamethrower move 4: Hidden Power Fighting / Vacuum Wave item: Life Orb nature: Timid ability: Technician evs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Stratagem's ability to force switches is a fantastic reason why a Metal Sound set is viable on it. With Metal Sound, Stratagem has the potential to beat its biggest counter, Blissey. With this set, the more you know about your opponent's team, the better. If you know that your opponent has a Scizor, use Flamethrower on the switch. If their Stratagem counter is Blissey, use Metal Sound. After a Metal Sound, a Technician-boosted Hidden Power Fighting has a 35.77% chance to 2HKO Calm Blissey. With Stealth Rock in play, that percentage changes to 91.32%. If Blissey is Bold, instead, Hidden Power Fighting after a Metal Sound has a 95.6% chance to 2HKO, even without Stealth Rock. If you're not worried about Blissey, Vacuum Wave is a viable option on Stratagem; however, as Stratagem is already so fast, the move is nearly always a lesser option. The EVs are fairly self explanatory for a sweeper like this. Timid is generally the best option, but Modest is always a viable choice. [SET] name: Suicide Lead move 1: Stealth Rock move 2: Explosion / U-turn move 3: Paleo Wave move 4: Shadow Ball / Earth Power item: Focus Sash nature: Timid ability: Levitate evs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] By taking advantage of Stratagem's remarkable speed, a suicide lead set is especially viable. Most notably, Stratagem outspeeds common leads such as Azelf, Gyarados, and Zapdos. This Stratagem set makes sure that your Stealth Rock gets up. Paleo Wave takes care of opponents such as Gyarados, Zapdos, and Yanmega, whereas the other move can help take out Azelf or Metagross. Explosion is a good move when your Stealth Rock is up, though if Exploding as a last-ditch effort does not appeal to you, U-turn is also a viable option. The EVs maximize Stratagem's Speed first, then, by pouring EVs into Special Attack, you can to help eliminate bulky foes such as Metagross. If a more powerful Explosion is wanted, you can switch to a Naive or Hasty nature, and even put EVs into Attack instead of Special Attack. [Other Options] <p>Rock Polish could be useful to boost your already monstrous speed to astronomical levels, however you won't be able to ever out-speed priority moves, the bane of Stratagem's existence. Thunder Wave can also serve almost the same purpose by slowing down opponents and crippling sweepers and walls trying to force you out.</p> <p>Stratagem gets Swords Dance, Head Smash, Explosion, and Earthquake, which amounts to a suicidal Physical Set. With Stratagem's high speed, it could surprise some counters, however with 60 base Attack it most likely won't go far.</p> [EVs] <p>Max your speed before doing anything, it's of utmost importance to outspeed Shaymin-s and Weavile, and tie with other Stratagem. The only reason to not max the speed is to use a Technician Hidden Power.</p> <p>After maxing your speed, on sweeper sets, max Special Attack. However, on the Sub/CM set you should invest some EVs in HP and Special Defense to take advantage of the boosts.</p> [Opinion] <p>Fireworks. Stratagem can rip a hole right through the heart of any offensive team without priority moves or a bulky Pokemon. However, it is easily forced out when faced with priority attacks or Pokemon it cannot OHKO. After a CM or two however, the list shortens considerably.</p> [Counters] <p>Countering Stratagem in the traditional sense is neigh-on impossible; it's too versatile. However, it is possible to force Stratagem out depending on the moveset. If Stratagem lacks a Fire Move, Bronzong is an excellent counter for it, surviving Stratagem's onslaught and promptly OHKOing with Gyro Ball. Scizor is an excellent revenge killer, as Bullet Punch preys on Stratagem's weaker physical defense. However, be wary that Scizor is neutral to Rock attacks, and can be OHKO'd by Weather Ball in Sand after a Calm Mind.</p> <p>If Stratagem lacks a Ground attack, Tyranitar is an excellent counter due to it's boosted special defense in the Sand, and can OHKO with Aqua Tail, or severely damage Stratagem with Pursuit. Lucario can revenge kill Stratagem with Bullet Punch or Vacuum Wave, as can Infernape with Mach Punch.</p> <p>For Stratagem without Giga Drain, bulky Water-types and bulky Ground-types are excellent counters to it, tanking hits and dishing out Super-Effective attacks. In particular, Vaporeon is an excellent check due to Wish and monstrous HP; Hippowdon has Slack Off and excellent HP and Attack. Both Pokemon can also Phaze out Stratagem's boosts if they choose with Roar to rack up passive damage and set up on their own.</p> <p>Stratagem has a very hard time getting past Revenankh, and Machamp, due to their high Attack, relative bulkyness, healing moves, and super effective Fighting attacks. Finally, Stratagem cannot get past Blissey short of Explosion, and Blissey can either status it or just kill it with Seismic Toss, which will always break Stratagem's subs. The same goes for Snorlax, except that Snorlax can outright kill Stratagem.</p>
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Last edited by Birkal; Mar 11th, 2012 at 4:02:57 PM. Reason: Prefix! |
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Oct 28th, 2008, 9:48:13 PM
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#2 |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,591
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Rocky has no ice beam, and energy ball should definately be an option on the first set, otherwise its pretty much walled by swampert if it carries waterfall, and helps against bulky waters it could win against with a CM and especially in sandstream
EDIT: wtf, it didn't have ice beam originally, I thought that was the main thing about his set...*feels dumb* Last edited by Goodbar; Oct 28th, 2008 at 10:44:28 PM. |
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Oct 28th, 2008, 10:29:35 PM
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#3 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 762
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He does have Ice Beam. I was pretty sure of that when I voted for X-Act. Really, it's more the lack of Boltbeam on any set that goes against my gut instincts (although it makes sense considering the metagame).
Also, it might be nice to have the movepool in the OP for faster reference.
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Oct 28th, 2008, 10:38:22 PM
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RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
 
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Quote:
Also: Sub CM [SET] name: Sub CM move 1: Substitute move 2: Calm Mind move 3: Ancient Beam move 4: Earth Power / Flamethrower item: Leftovers nature: Timid ability: Levitate evs: 64 HP / 96 SpA / 96 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] This set plays much like Sub/CM Raikou, except with much better speed and special attack, in exchange for less durability. This set is best used in Sandstorm, because <Rockmon> will become a very fast special tank with all the boosts. The strategy is simple. First, switch in on something you can use as set-up bait, such as a choiced Earthquake or Earth Power. Then, Sub as they bring in a revenge killer or wall. If they bring in something like Blissey, you can continue to set up on it, alternating between Substitute and Calm Mind. If they bring in Scizor, attack it and get out once it breaks your sub. Ancient Beam and Earth Power provide the best coverage, but if bulky waters and Tyranitar aren't a problem, you can run Flamethrower over Earth Power to hit Scizor and Bronzong harder. Be aware that without a sub up, both will still kill you. The EVs allow for a leftovers number +1, allowing you to use Substitute five consecutive times before having to switch out. Max speed is needed to revenge kill Shaymin-s, since the only things faster than you are Ninjask, Electrode, and scarfed Pokemon.
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 ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤLast edited by tennisace; Oct 29th, 2008 at 4:03:27 PM. |
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Oct 28th, 2008, 10:59:47 PM
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#5 | |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,679
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"Grass Knot is useful to hit Swampert..."
No Grass Knot. Otherwise looks good.
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Oct 28th, 2008, 11:53:08 PM
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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I'm gonna say make energy ball first, I'm not really sure what EP is hitting that fire/grass/rock isn't, flamethrower hits all steels, energy ball does not much less to ttar, i guess you're kinda walled by infernape but what you gain from energy ball seems a lot better. Heatran can't touch you besides DPulse or a resisted fire blast, while ancient beam (or paleo wave? :D) should do a pretty reasonable amount of damage. Focus blast is just about as useless as EP, only hitting ttar reasonably harder.
P.S. Congrats on making TL for the 1st Evo project :D |
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Oct 29th, 2008, 4:00:22 AM
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#7 | |
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 397
cool kid
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Oct 29th, 2008, 7:19:36 AM
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#8 |
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
London
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[SET]
name: Sandstorm Calm Mind move 1: Calm Mind move 2: Weather Ball move 3: Flamethrower / Earth Power move 4: Substitute item: Leftovers nature: Timid ability: Levitate evs: 68 HP / 96 SpA / 96 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] blah blah blah In sandstorm: 338 HP, 300 SpA and 300 SpD. You beat stuff like Cresselia, Seismic toss-less Blissey etc [SET] name: Choice Scarf move 1: Ancient Beam move 2: EarthPower move 3: Focus Blast move 4: Thunderbolt / Energy Ball / Shadow Ball item: Leftovers nature: Modest ability: Levitate evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] blah blah Notably outspeeds Timid Scarfgar and Modest scarfmin whilst retaining a sexy 372 SpA. Functions as a revenge killer (duh). Ancient Beam vs 4 HP Skymin = 107.33% - 126.69% Ancient Beam vs 4 HP Gyarados = 86.75% - 103.01% (15% chance to OHKO, 100% chance after Stealth Rock) Ancient Beam vs 156 HP Gyarados = 77.84% - 92.43% (OHKO after SR) Ancient Beam vs 4 HP Salamence = 104.82% - 123.49% Ancient Beam vs 212 HP Salamence = 90.63% - 106.77% (40% Chance of OHKO, 100% chance after SR) Ancient Beam vs 4 HP Syclant = 293.62% - 346.1% (Possible OHKO) Earthpower vs 4 HP Heatran = 119.75% - 141.98% Earthpower vs 0 HP Infernape = 87.37% - 103.07% (15% chance of OHKO, 100% chance after SR) Earthpower vs 4 HP Tyranitar = 39.77% - 47.37% Earthpower vs 4 HP Lucario = 96.45% - 114.18% (79% chance of OHKO, 92% chance after SR, 100% after Life Orb recoil) Focus Blast vs 4 HP Lucario = 129.08% - 152.48% Focus Blast vs 4 HP Tyranitar = 105.26% - 125.15% Focus Blast vs 4 HP Heatran = 80.25% - 94.44% (46% chance of OHKO after SR) Thunderbolt for waters and reliable Gyara killing, Energy Ball does 69.31% - 82.18% to max/max+ Swampert eh 2HKO on the switch. Shadow Ball vs revised Revenankh, ~ 384 HP / 300 SpD = 37.5% - 44.27% Shadow Ball vs 4 HP Gengar = 87.79% - 103.82% (20% chance of OHKO, 100% chance with SR) So this thing is taking down +1 Gyarados and Salamence, scarfed Skymin, scarftran, infernape, scarfgar, lucario (bar bullet punch) and DDtyranitar pretty reliably. [SET] name: Rocks and Boom move 1: Stealth Rock move 2: Explosion move 3: Shadow Ball move 4: Ancient Beam item: Focus Sash nature: Naive ability: Levitate evs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Lay down rocks and blow up. vs Azelf you can lay down rocks and presumably so will they then you can kill it before it kills you with Shadow Ball or survive the explosion with focus sash Then you blow up whatever you see next. If they bring in a ghost, you at least take a good chunk out of them with shadow ball.
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You Go? Last edited by sbc; Oct 29th, 2008 at 10:41:16 AM. |
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Oct 29th, 2008, 9:47:55 AM
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#9 |
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 203
Stalking Hybrid
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for the suicide lead set i suggest to go with Hasty nature as timid would lower Explosions effectiveness.
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Oct 29th, 2008, 11:24:56 AM
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#10 |
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 681
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i cant do it now, but why not a Sub tech Ancient power, to kill and, if get a boost, make bulky subs (specially in sandstorm)... cant it work?
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Oct 29th, 2008, 3:17:02 PM
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#11 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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Oct 29th, 2008, 4:13:00 PM
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#12 | ||
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RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
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Quote:
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[SET] name: Choice (Levitate) move 1: Ancient Beam move 2: Earth Power move 3: Flamethrower move 4: Ice Beam / Thunderbolt item: Choice Specs / Choice Scarf nature: Timid / Modest ability: Levitate evs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] WIP: Explain the advantages of levitate on choice sets, purpose of sets, yadda yadda. Darkie, change the Technician Specs set to "Choice (Technician)", and mention Vacuum Wave on the specs set. Personally, I like Ancient Beam, but Paleo Wave is fine I guess. I'll do a formal poll soon.
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ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤLast edited by tennisace; Oct 29th, 2008 at 4:20:09 PM. |
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Oct 29th, 2008, 4:27:31 PM
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#13 |
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 858
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[SET]
name: Charge Beam (Tech) move 1: Ancient Beam/Ancientpower move 2: Giga Drain move 3: Flamethrower/Earth Power move 4: Charge Beam item: Life Orb/Leftovers nature: Timid / Modest ability: Technician evs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] Use Charge Beam to build up Satk, Giga Drain to restore health, and your other two moves to just deal damage. Gets great type coverage, and you could also find a way to fit Vacuum Wave or Ominous Wind or Air Cutter or whatever else you want in there over Giga Drain/Flamethrower/Earth Power. Thoughts? (EVs could use work) |
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Oct 29th, 2008, 4:52:05 PM
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#14 |
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maybe I just misunderstood
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,695
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Surprised at no mention of the basic sweeper:
[SET] name: No setup sweeper move 1: Ancient Beam move 2: Earth Power move 3: Flamethrower move 4: Substitute item: Life Orb nature: Timid ability: Levitate evs: 252 SpA / 6 SpD / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] This <Rocky> boasts better coverage than the CM sets, however it will not be able to power up and therefore is more vulnerable to some opponents. While the first two moves are pretty much set as they give coverage against every OU threat bar Bronzong the last two slots are really up for grabs with the best other moves being: Explosion which lets beat Blissey (providing it took some damage switching in) or pretty much anything else but requires you to sacrifice yourself, Thunderbolt lets you take out bulky waters like Vaporeon while Ice Beam does more damage to Ground types and Dragons than any other move. The options listed give you a good chance against a Scizor switching in and help with Bronzong. ---------- Should I list different options for the last two spots? Explode+Flamethrower sounds ok but is more vunerable to Scizor, Sub+Explode is a bit odd (less coverage from behind the sub) but could work. Maybe Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are more Other Options material? Maybe mention that Tech can work if you want to run Giga Drain or Anchentpower? Edit: Explosion should be on more sets, like the choice ones.
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Oct 29th, 2008, 4:55:04 PM
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#15 | ||
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RIDE OR DIE MOTHERFUCKERS ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ
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Sub isn't going to help if it's a no-setup sweeper, but could be listed in other options. I never like the whole sub/lo idea anyway, you lose too much health, and you have no healing.
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Oct 29th, 2008, 5:01:22 PM
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#16 | |
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lightwoof
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Oct 29th, 2008, 5:01:57 PM
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#17 |
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eric - Sub/LO in my experience isn't very good for anything, if swampert switch into that or any bulky water you've just wasted 35% of your health as opposed to 10%. You could throw on energy ball over EP though, I'm not sure what people are seeing in EP besides hitting infernape, if I'm missing something big tell me but Energy Ball is far more useful as a third moveslot imo. And in that case I don't think substitute would be useful still because TTar, Blissey, and lol infernape still resist you, and revenahnk. And remember with levitate Heatran is not a threat and takes neutral from ancient beam anyways
Darkie in your first set you mention how energy ball hits grounds that threaten you with ground moves, but the primary ability is levitate, so you should remove the part about it being threatened by ground attacks. |
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Oct 29th, 2008, 5:18:30 PM
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#18 |
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maybe I just misunderstood
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,695
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I know you lose quite a bit of health but getting to use the right move on their counter is pretty important, 120 base SpA is enough to 2KO a good number of quite bulky Pokemon if you predict right and Sub really would help prediction, but if everyone thinks that its not as useful I will take it off.
If Sub is not being used then Explosion should most certainly be the primary option for slot 4 without it Blissey, Snorlax and a load of other things just wall you and it can help get you out of a tight spot. Ice Beam and Thunderbolt are useful for a few things but most of them can be beaten down by your STAB moves or are not that common. As for Earth Power Vs Energy Ball.. Rock/Ground has legendery coverage and EP has 20 more BP. Heatran will still be able to hurt you with Fire Blast even if its resisted and if Rocky becomes popular then HP Grass may as well. Other than Swampert what is hit harder by EB than by any of its other moves? Well a whole lot is hit harder by Earth Power, almost every rock resist will be the target of Earth Power and those 20 BP are going to cost you.
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For people who like storing things: The Box Reading and LC? LCF, LC Guide, LC Analyses Good channels: #littlecup, #C&C, #1v1, others And for SCMS editors: SCMS group ete on IRC. Goodbye Smogon. Good luck, was fun while it lasted.
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Oct 29th, 2008, 5:21:13 PM
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#19 |
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qibz official stalker
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,656
good question
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Er, I can't test any of these sets but is anyone interested I can write something for these concepts if anyone is interested. Let me know which you want me to write up (if any -_-). I wanted some feed back before I did anything. Shame this guy didn't get Curse by the way. With that Special Defense, Curse, it could have been fun. Anyway. Here are my theorymon ideas.
- Rock Polish LO set: With such high speed it would barely need any Speed investment to make use of Rock Polish, allowing you to invest significantly in both Attack & SpA, making an excellent mixed sweeper late game, or, allowing you to invest significantly in SpA & HP for a bulky mid-late game sweeper. -bulky RestTalk set. With Sandstream & that SpD it should be able to even hypnosis from stuff like Milotic, Gengar, Yanmega, Bronzong etc. with ease, take there attacks, and still hit hard. -sub set. Just substitute to scout, and then attack. useful on something this fast -Endure set: Gimmicky but could work with Swords Dance or CM once low on health to activate a Salac Berry or something. SD/CM until you are low on health. Endure the hit, activate the Salac and start sweeping. |
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Oct 29th, 2008, 5:29:52 PM
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#20 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,591
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Every rock resist: ground, fighting, steel. ground hit by energy ball, fighting affected by neither, steel hit by flamethrower and there are 2 steels that resist earth power and only one that resists fire. Apparently Scarftran can't take enough out of rockmon where it'd be 2HKOed without LO recoil or SR, which is still not a 100% chance, but rockmon should see a lot of SS and you're still not in a favorable position to switch in otherwise, unless you wanna KO it and have little or no health left. Pretty much only infernape is the loss, whereas you gain coverage on bulky grounds and waters who will otherwise wall him alot.
EDIT: EP has only 10 base more pp too Last edited by Goodbar; Oct 29th, 2008 at 5:32:03 PM. |
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Oct 29th, 2008, 6:05:23 PM
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#21 |
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maybe I just misunderstood
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,695
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Heatran and Empoleon are hit much harder by Earth Power than Flamethrower and it hits a little harder (sorry, I thought EP was 100 BP) against the fighters. In return Energy ball is better for the Ground types (Donphan, Hippo, Swampy).
There is also the fact that Ground is one of the best attacking types as far as what it hits SE (Electric, Poison, Steel, Fire, Rock) while Grass hits only Rock, Water and Ground SE. mm.. I now think they are both worthy options but that Energy Ball is probably still secondary.
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Oct 29th, 2008, 6:11:57 PM
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#22 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,591
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Flamethrower hits neutral harder than EP, so you can't use that as an argument for fighters besides nape. Empoleon is BL and rarely seen, and I wouldn't stay in to 2HKO if it had switched in on ancient beam, and I mentioned why its not that important to OHKO heatran, I could be wrong as you'd probably need to playtest it to see if EP is actually that essential, but if I am its just heatran (who cant switch into AB) and infernape against bulky waters and grounds, so EB imo is definately primary
EDIT: Hmm I guess if you were using weatherball it'd be hitting nearly as hard as a SE energy ball...but still for swampert and hippowdon...hmm, in that case I might consider EP Last edited by Goodbar; Oct 29th, 2008 at 6:16:06 PM. |
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Oct 29th, 2008, 6:17:35 PM
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#23 | ||
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,061
London
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Quote:
Actually now I have done the calcs, 252 Atk Rock Slide does with Naive and 45.18% - 53.31% and with Hasty it does 49.1% - 58.13% so clearly it makes a big difference in terms of surviving two Rock Slides You beat Azelf anyway if it chooses to SR on the first turn (which it should do). Quote:
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Oct 30th, 2008, 12:58:15 AM
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#24 |
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 574
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I have a bit of an issue with calling the first set "standard". It's not necessarily the standard, we haven't tested it. Also the set itself seems a little weak, even in the late-game. Life Orb doesn't seem like the absolute most useful item to run either. I would suggest this:
[SET] name: All-out sweeper move 1: Calm Mind move 2: Ancient Beam move 3: Fire Blast move 4: Thunderbolt/Energy Ball item: Babiri Berry nature: Timid ability: Levitate evs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe [SET COMMENTS] This can be compared to the late-game sweeping Jirachi set, however Rockmon has 130 Speed and 120 SpA to boast, along with a potential SpD boost if you choose to use this set on a sand team. It's designed to come in when the opponent's defensive core has been significantly weakened and take the game. In the late-game, when most walls are running low on health, they will be swept by this set. After a Calm Mind, Gyarados and Shaymin-S are obliterated. When Metagross or Scizor is switched in to threaten Bullet Punch, you survive their Steel-type attacks thanks to Babiri Berry and retaliate with a +1 Fire Blast. The last move is there to hit bulky waters or grounds, by preference, as hard as you can. Thunderbolt hits Vappy and friends really hard even with Babiri Berry. Energy Ball hurts too, but not as much. However Swampert and Donphan go down easy, and Hippowdon is picked off with residual damage. You could also run Earth Power for Fidgit and Heatran, although it's generally not recommended. Life Orb is also viable on this set for hitting things like Vaporeon and Hippowdon harder with Thunderbolt/Energy Ball, and it is of note that with Life Orb, you will always OHKO Bronzong after a CM. However, you are at risk of being revenge-killed by Bullet Punch Scizor/Metagross. The same applies to Expert Belt, however it allows you to boost your moves without Life Orb recoil. --- It's a little wordy, I'll rewrite it if there's a problem.
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http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/e...000/carsig.png Current high score in Robot Unicorn Attack: 93112 Last edited by Beej; Oct 31st, 2008 at 11:02:23 PM. |
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Oct 30th, 2008, 9:53:36 PM
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#25 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 112
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But can anyone solve this problem for "Rockmon"?
Metagross/Scizor --- Bullet Punch --- OHKO Hitmon___/ Breloom --- Mach Punch --- OHKO etc. So how is rockmon going to deal with those? |
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