Rate My Team [OU]

Felix91 · Nov 15, 2009

Intro

This is just an old team I've been using for months now, with minor edits over time. It's become a bit stale and, although it's my most effective team, it definitely could use some help. I'm open to anything for the smallest changes to a significant revamp of the whole thing.

Oh and edits will be in Blue because that's a good color...

Team at a Glance

There's my team. I'm sure the synergy improve, but these guys seem to cover each other's weaknesses pretty well. There are a few holes that could be patched, and a few changes I could probably make... Now, onto the team.

---The Team---

Infernape (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 SAtk/252 Spd/4 Atk
Timid nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Stealth Rock
- Endeavor
- Overheat
- Vacuum Wave

Description

I started off with Infernape as the lead on my first team several months ago, and I really love it. Originally I used the older Infernape lead set, but this one, or something similar, was suggested a while ago. I knew I wanted something to set up an entry hazard at the beginning, but I wasn't sure what to do after that. This set allows for a clear strategy that often earns at least one KO in a match. The timid nature allows it to outspeed many other non-scarfed leads, and I went with the obvious choice of timid over naive for the extra bit of defense. Max speed for a higher chance to outrun other common leads, max special attack for max power on overheat.

Stealth Rock is basically a necessity on teams these days, it seems. I usually start of with that and, thanks to the Sash, reliably get SR up in 90% of my matches (as long as I'm not hit with some Taunt or Fake Out lead). Endeavor is pretty obvious. Since Infernape is faster than a bunch of leads, I can get many opponents down to 1% before they kill me. If I'm slower and predict, I can still get them down after they attack me. I can also switch out at 1% if they clearly aren't setting up rocks, and if I get an opportunity I can come in and endeavor on something that I have trouble with. Overheat was my most powerful option; I usually just use this for damage if I'm in a bad matchup or if I expect a taunt. I can also use that if I survive and come in later in the match. Vacuum Wave for priority, allowing me to KO whatever I just hit with endeavor.

Synergy
Water -

Ground -

Flying -

Psychic -

Metagross @ Life Orb
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 64 HP/252 Atk/192 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Agility
- Thunderpunch
- Earthquake
- Meteor Mash

Description

Metagross... One of my favorite competitive pokemon. His spot on my team is actually inspired by a choice scarf Metagross I saw in one of my first battles on Shoddy. I recently moved on from the ScarfGross (I wasn't a fan of its limitations on Metagross, because he was still beaten by several key pokemon anyway) and I'm trying an Agiligross in its place. Adamant nature allows for a lot of power, along with maximum attack EVs, and Life Orb. It won't outspeed much before an Agility anyway, but outspeeds a ton after one or two, so I didn't bother with Jolly or even max speed EVs. I'm not entirely sure of the significance of these HP/Speed EV numbers, but they've worked well.

Agility is the key move in the set, boosting my speed and making me much more likely to sweep with this guy. The one thing I lose with this over Scarf is the immediate threat to opponents. I'm not nearly as effective unless I get a good switch-in and get an agility, but with the scarf the effects were immediate, but more more limiting. Thunderpunch was chosen over the other options basically for some better coverage, and it's nice to have for things like Gyarados. Earthquake is just an excellent move, generally considered one of the best competitive moves in the game. It's very easy to find chances to use this, specifically against threats that I can beat with an Agility. Meteor Mash is an awesome STAB move. Since this set should achieve plenty of speed, again I went with power over priority (Bullet Punch). Steel really doesn't have wonderful type coverage, but it's still an excellent STAB move for Metagross.

Synergy
Fire -

Ground -

Scizor (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 160 HP/176 Atk/4 Spd/168 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Bullet Punch
- Pursuit
- U-turn
- Superpower

Description

Ahh, CB Scizor. Such an easy addition to almost any team. You've heard all of the qualifications a million times... Technician Bullet Punch/Pursuit/U-Turn, Choice Band for insane attack power. Adamant nature and plenty of attack EVs. Special defense for bulkiness, along with HP EVs.

Bullet Punch is one of the most dynamic moves we've seen throughout DPPt's metagame, and is essential on every Scizor set. Priority, STAB, Technician boost... This move is just amazing. Pursuit is incredibly helpful on something like Rotom (if it isn't the heat form... I hate those), Gengar, Latias, or anything that's threatened by Scizor. It's dangerous though because a lot of things carry HP Fire which owns Scizor completely. U-turn is useful for scouting and taking out things like Celebi (if it isn't carrying HP Fire like mine...), and the ability to switch after use is also nice. Superpower is, well, super-powerful, but I really don't seem to use this move very often... Hmm...

Synergy
Fire

Gyarados (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 156 HP/72 Atk/96 Def/184 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Dragon Dance
- Taunt
- Waterfall
- Earthquake

Description

BulkyGyara is a wonderful pokemon, and whoever created it is awesome. Anyway... Leftovers and EVs for bulk, while providing the oportunity to sweep as well. Adamant nature for more power. For a bit more on the EVs I'll just take a bit from the set description:

Bulky Gyarados aims to maximize the advantages of Gyarados's unique typing, respectable defenses, and Intimidate to set up on and kill a variety of threats, including many variants of Infernape, Heatran, Lucario, and Scizor. The EVs given balance out Gyarados's defensive and offensive capabilities. 156 HP ensures that Gyarados is never 2HKOed by Timid Life Orb Heatran Fire Blast, after SR and Leftovers. 96 EVs are placed in Defense to ensure that Scizor will never 2HKO Gyarados with a Choice Band Quick Attack after Sandstorm, SR, and Leftovers, helping ensure that Scizor cannot score a revenge kill. 184 Speed outruns Jolly Tyranitar before a Dragon Dance and +Speed Starmie and Azelf after a Dragon Dance. The remaining EVs are placed in Attack to increase damage against foes like Celebi.

Dragon Dance is a great stat-booster, and has allowed me to sweep entire teams before (which is awesome for a mediocre battler like me :nerd:). It makes up for the lack of investment in speed/attack after one use, and is easy to use because of the bulky set. Taunt on this Gyarados is easily my best (only?) option to help prevent stall, and if I'm lucky it will result in a switch, and an extra DD from me. Waterfall is a requirement for physical STAB (and I need a water move on the team anyway). I went with Earthquake instead of the current standards (Return and Bounce, I think) because it's unexpected. After a DD or two, I can use it to outspeed some counters who are either electric type or resistant to water and determind to KO me with an electric move. It's one of the few non-standard parts of this team, sadly, but it's very effective in my personal use.

Synergy (or perhaps a lack of synergy here... hmm...)
Electric

Rock

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP/216 Def/40 Spd
Bold nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Recover
- Thunder Wave
- Grass Knot

Description

*sigh* (I really hate typing these descriptions)

Defensive Celebi. Natural Cure is an awesome ability. EVs give it great defenses and it still outruns Jolly Tyranitar. Bold nature for even more defense. This is the only real defensive pokemon on the team. (Sorry if these descriptions are getting too brief, I can add more if I must)

Hidden Power Fire is incredible. The amount of Scizors this move has killed is astounding. It's the first suggestion on the standard Smogon analysis, but for whatever reason I still see tons of Scizor switch-ins to U-turn, presumably. That's fine with me though. Anyway, recover allows this thing to stay around longer, but I usually end up using this just to come in to kill a Scizor, spread parahax, or Grass Knot on something. Thunder Wave is the only status on the team, but it gets the job done. The speed reduction is really helpful for some of the guys with sub-par speed on my team. Grass Knot for STAB, helpful mostly against random specific threats. Swampert. Tyranitar. Etc.

Synergy (wow this thing has a ton of weaknesses)
Bug

Fire

Ice

Poison

Flying

Ghost

Dark

Salamence (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 40 Atk/252 Spd/216 SAtk
Naive nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower
- Roost
- Brick Break

Description

MixMence. Not entirely sure where I got these EVs, but they work well. Plenty of speed (I switched to Rash for a while but that was just not good. I need speed.) Plenty of special attack. Life Orb for more damage.

Draco Meteor for ridiculous power. STAB + LO + DM's power = Wow. Yeah, anyway, I'm pretty sure I switched from Fire Blast to Flamethrower after I had a Fire Blast miss that cost me a match. Lol. Not sure if that's really worth it... Roost to repair LO damage and generally to help me recover. Salamence's defenses are respectable so it can take a couple of hits. Brick Break kills screens and offers another fighting move for me to use.

Synergy
Ice

Dragon

Rock

Conclusion

Overall, this has been a really solid team for me. I don't play this game a whole lot, so I could be missing a few things in terms of threats or pokemon that I think I cover well, so any advice on the real threats would be great, along with any other general fixes you can think of.

Felix91 · Nov 15, 2009

Threat List

I just copied this from another team. Ignore it for now, it's entirely unrelated to my team right now. I'll edit it in later.

Defensive Threats:

Blissey – Blissey is set up fodder for Suicune unless it carries seismic toss. In that case, I usually send in lucario on the seismic toss to KO it with CC as it usually stays in fearing SD.

Bronzong – lol. Suicune sets up all over this thing.

Celebi – Bulky leaf storm users are simply disposed of by Suicune thinking they can counter it, but light screen solves that problem. Otherwise, Jirachi can come in not having to fear thunder wave due to Suicune's sub. Unless the opponent predicts my Jirachi switch (never happened unless they saw it) Celebi is either set up on or switched out.

Cresselia – Not really common, but most are just set up fodder for Suicune.

Donphan – Donphan is easily KOed by suicune.

Dusknoir – Jirachi sets up on it with reflect despite fire punch. Otherwise, it's set up fodder for Suicune.

Forretress – lol...again. Set up all over by suicune.

Gliscor – Suicune should be able to kill this thing, but it's commonly paired t-tar and Blissey which easily doom the team walling the whole team.

Gyarados – Gyarados can be set up on by suicune if it lacks roar or I'm under reflect. Otherwise, Rotom-w and Jirachi KO this thing.

Hippowdon – Suicune can't really set up on it due to roar. The team has some problems with this guy as Suicune doesn't KO, but does lots of damage.

Jirachi – This thing is usually seen as a lead and in that case, it loses to Jirachi and Rotom. Parahax versions are quite annoying and I usually go straight to salamence on the iron head and set up a DD while they paralyze me. Lum berry prevents it and I KO, though it often leaves me open to scizor.

Rotom-A – Simply set up by salamence, or suicune if under light screen though it's quite dangerous, and Jirachi sets up on him under light screen.

Skarmory – Rotom-W sets up on it or kills it. Whirlwind can get pretty annoying once Rotom-W is down and Jirachi fails to OHKO with thunderbolt.

Snorlax – Snorlax can be somewhat problematic, however, lucario sets up on it if it's under reflect. In that case, the opponent has to rely on bodyslam's parahax to win this one.

Suicune – Other suicunes pose a danger to the team, and that's where Rotom-W is most needed. Even after one CM offensivecune is simply either paralyzed and suffers around 40% damage (50 with LO) or just takes the damage. Lucario can also do some damage with ES to a weakened suicune. Under light screen, it will almost always lose to Rotom. Jirachi can also set up along side it and easily go for the KO with thunderbolt.

Swampert – Can be quite problematic due to roar. I have no real way to stop it. All I can do is put Lucario under Reflect and as it switches in, SD twice hoping it doesn't roar (most actually EQ dealing 50% or so damage), and then KO with CC. Or, 1 SD CC can do the damage needed and then kill it with Suicune or Salamence. with SR, though, I shouldn't have much of a problem.

Tentacruel – Tentacruel is another pokemon suicune easily sets up on. Salamence also KOs with EQ.

Tyranitar – Tyranitar is one of the only pokemon that can actually pose a real threat to the team. However, if it's Cbed, it's set up on by Lucario. Azelf also survives lead CB crunch and sets up both screens.

Vaporeon – Vaporeon is set up on by Suicune and pressure stalled.

Zapdos – Suicune outspeeds the standard and OHKOs with +2 Ice beam. If I get down SR only 1 CM is needed. Light screen also gives me the advantage. Salamence sets up on versions lacking HP ice and roar.

Offensive Threats:

Azelf - NPAzelf is a horror to the team. Thankfully, it isn't common. Leadelves are usually outsped and taunted (never lost a speedtie :D )

Breloom – Breloom, thankfully, is outsped by Suicune and all Breloom I have faced switched into my Suicune thinking they were faster. I then sub and proceed to set up a CM or just go for the KO with ice beam depending on the circumstances. If Suicune's down, I go straight to salamence.

Dragonite – Suicune switches in and KOs this thing under screens.

Dugtrio – Dugtrio really can't switch into anything safely as it's KOed by something all my members have. It can revenge Jirachi, but that's pretty much it, as Lucario OHKOs with SD boosted ES, maybe even unboosted after looking at its HP.

Electivire – Electivire can cause a few problems and my only reliable switch in is Rotom-W who can't do significant damage to it either.

Gallade – All I really have to defeat him with is Rotom who can hope to paralyze it and then go for the KO with Salamence. Otherwise, it is one of the three pokemon (Tyranitar and Starmie) that actually pose a threat to the team.

Gengar - Gengar is destroyed by Suicune under light screen despite thunderbolt. It's also Salamence's set up fodder.

Gyarados – See defensive threat.

Heatran – Heatran is simply set up on by Suicune even without light screen.

Heracross – Heracross can't damage Rotom much at all under screens. Salamence also sets up on scarf variants.

Infernape – Salamence sets up on this guy. Otherwise, it does a lot to the team. Suicune usually handles the non-NP versions, though.

Jolteon – Jolteon can be set up fodder for salamence under light screen. Otherwise, I rely on jirachi to set up on it and take it out.

Latias – Suicune loses to defensive CM versions, so I usually rely on Lucario to set up on it if Light Screens are up. If Salamence already has a DD or 2 then Latias is beaten.

Kingdra – Kingdra is somewhat threatening, but not too threatening as I can force it to outrage on Salamence and then switch to Lucario and set up a few SDs (yes, more than one usually). This only really is safe under reflect.

Lucario - Lucario is defeated by either rotom or salamence.

Machamp – Machamp gets set up on by Rotom-W and then attacked with discharge or hydropump. Then, I can switch to Lucario on the Payback or stone edge and go for the KO with CC. Salamence also sets up on certain versions.

Magnezone – Magnezone is beat either by rotom or jirachi (under light screen).

Mamoswine – Mamoswine is set up on by suicune under reflect.

Metagross – Metagross is the reason Suicune becomes so ridiculously easy to set up.

Porygon-Z – Porygon-Z is set up on by Lucario under screens.

Salamence – Salamence is beat by Suicune under screens.

Scizor – Scizor is beat by Suicune as under reflect even a CB U-turn can't break my subs thus making this thing useless on most teams, though brick break variants are efficiently dealt with by Rotom-W

Starmie – Starmie is probably the most dangerous pokemon this team can face and I'd be really lucky to have it not hold thunderbolt. Otherwise, my best bet is Suicune under screens.

Togekiss – Suicune is laughing.

Tyranitar – See defensive threat

Weavile – Weavile takes out both my screeners, however, it falls to suicune.

Yanmega – Yanmega is set up on by Azelf as I outspeed the first turn and then proceed to set up light screen. Afterward, my whole team has fun.

Zapdos – See defensive threat.

The SPrinkLer · Nov 16, 2009

Gyarados sets up on your Gyarados, which is ironic. Anyway, to fix this, I'd change Earthquake to Stone Edge, also hitting Salamence. Also, Gengar pretty much rapes your team. All it needs to do is Protect to scout what Scizor will do, and switch or HP Fire. I'd change Metagross' set to this:

Metagross @ Lum Berry
Adamant Nature
252 hp/ 40 att/ 216 spd
-Pursuit
-Bullet Punch
-Earthquake
-Explosion

This will allow you to effectively trap Gengar, as well as Latias. This set also survives ScarfTran's Fire Blast. That's a big help, because ScarfTran revenges your whole team, depending on the moveset. Since you wouldn't have stat-upper, I'd change Scizor to the SD set, since you have a trapper in Metagross. Scizor makes a very potent sweeper with SD. I hope this helps, and good luck with the team!

Kumar628 · Nov 16, 2009

Thanks for the PM to request a rate. I'll do the best I can in the time I have.

Anyway you look at it, Celebi is sort of a weakpoint in the team. Because the rest of your team is so offensive, I wouldn't advise just sticking in random support. Trust me, I've been told this thousands of times after advising offensive team to have some support in them, other than the lead (sometimes the lead is even in question!) And so, to retain your offense and synergy (and perhaps have more), I suggest the almighty Rotom-H. TrickScarf is the best set for offense, as it makes a good revenge killer if Scizor is downed, or can't do anything e.g. revenge killing a Metagross. Also, having both a special and physical revenge killers make for a solid balance, whether or not they are sweeping. If you're going for bulky, you can try the defensive Rotom-H, he works well, too, but you don't have the revenge killer, but you do have a nice tank. More great news is that he retains and adds synergy to your team, and at the same time, carries less burden for his amount of weaknesses (3) can easily be synergized by your other members.

Other than that, your other pokemon seem fine, except maybe Stone Edge on Gyarados could be more beneficial, and were you to go with that, then put Earthquake on Mence.

Overall, good team, just needs some tweaking and a little more testing.

symphonyx64 · Nov 16, 2009

Besides your own Infernape, a Mixed Infernape decimates at least 4 of your team members: Metagross, Scizor, Celebi, and Salamence. After factoring in Nasty Plot and Stealth Rock, Gyarados is OHKOed. Did I forget to mention Infernape outspeeds those aforementioned Pokémon?

To remedy this without completely restructuring the contents of your team, I suggest replacing Salamence with a Latias running the "Life Orb + Three Attacks" moveset. That Latias serves an identical purpose to Salamence, but it outspeeds Infernape and OHKOs it in the process, which is crucial. You still get instant recovery abilities and whatnot, you just lose the ability to hit on the physical side of the spectrum, which your Salamence is hardly doing anyways. Plus, Latias is much bulkier than Salamence, without that nasty x4 Ice weakness and taking 25% damage from Stealth Rock.

Felix91 · Nov 16, 2009

I really like the thought of switching Celebi for Rotom-H and Salamence for Latias. I put that new team into Marriland's nice little "team builder" and it would give me 5 Steel resistances (nice for Scizor, etc), and generally good typing to cover all of my weaknesses (eh, except ghost, I wouldn't balance out weaknesses/resistances there...)

When I get a chance I think I'll try those changes, keeping EQ on Gyara for now since I'm losing the EQ I would have used on Salamence. I can't wait to see what happens :D

Edit - Also probably going to do that Metagross change too, actually, and switch to Stone Edge on Gyarados, and I'll probably try SD Scizor again.

iliketurkeybacon · Nov 17, 2009

Have you considered Iron Head on Metagross? I've seen a ton of Agiligross sweeps end because of a missed Meteor Mash. If there is an opponent that Meteor Mash would kill and Iron Head wouldn't, you still have the 30% flinch chance. You might even be able to Jirachi some opponents to death that you couldn't OHKO with Meteor Mash.

Dormin · Nov 17, 2009

Responding to that PM--I'm even more pumped to rate this now that I see my Scizor spread circulating lol.

Anyway, it is definitely a solid team, and I'm not surprised that you've had so much success with it. I really like the Infernape lead for this team, and I don't think you need to change anything there. On the other hand, I think Metagross's spot could use some change. Looking at the team as a whole, you don't have a lot of speed, which could be very dangerous against the many offensive teams running around these days. Since Metagross's steel typing is so valuable to the team, I recommend either giving it a scarf or replacing it with a ScarfRachi with Iron Head, Trick, Fire Punch, and U-turn. Seeing as how Infernape will be sacrificing itself in the first few turns and your other two potential counters are weak to SR, I can see Lucario being a problem. ScarfRachi with Fire Punch should help this a lot. ScarfGross could work just as well if you want to keep that monstrous defense, and it is much more of a surprise. I think both are worth testing.

The rest of the team looks great, but I think I can help out with one more EV spread. Bold Celebi without any investment in SpAtk fails to OHKO the standard 252 HP Scizor with HP Fire, even after SR. Therefore, I recommend throwing those Spe EVs into SpA, which guarantees the OHKO. Really the only reason for 244 Spe is to outspeed Jolly Ttar, all of which are dragon dancers anyway. You still outrun the standard Defensive Rotom, so that's always a plus. I've never really missed the speed, but I definitely have kicked myself after Scizor survives to U-turn me to hell.

Hope I helped. Good luck!

Felix91 · Nov 17, 2009

I made the changes (added Latias and Rotom-H for Celebi and Salamence, and I changed Metagross's set. I'll edit the RMT soon), and I won my first match, but that's all I have time for today.

Thanks again for all the fixes!

Setsuna · Nov 19, 2009

Responding to your PM....

The team, like it is right now, is tremendously weak to LO Infernape, so it definitely needs some resistance to it, one of the bests: Latias, so I agree with who suggested it, but now I will tell you what set you should try:

Latias @ Life Orb
Timid Nature.
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Spd / 252 SpA.
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Hidden Power Fire
- Recover

Life Orb + 3 Attacks, very strong. I chose HP Fire over Thunderbolt because you need a way to remove Scizor fast, and before you were relying on Celebi's Hidden Power to take him down, but now that won't happen anymore. So you can take out Latias once you see Infernape and the only thing you should fear to encounter after is Tyranitar, which is troublesome for this set and it means that you'll have to predict extremely well to go out of the situation.

Now, Rotom-h instead of Celebi is another good suggestion, try the Scarf bulky variant: 252 HP / 252 Spd / 4 SpA. This still removes most of your problems (Agility Metagross, SD Lucario, etc).

Metagross: I don't like it in this team, it does like nothing really important, so I want you to try this variant of Jirachi:

Jirachi @ Expert Belt
Naive Nature.
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 SpA
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Fire Punch
- Grass Knot

I was looking for a good addition in Metagross's slot and I quickly thought about this Jirachi. You have already a strong wall-breaker: LO Latias; a sweeper: DD Gyarados; a Scarfer and revenge killer: Rotom-h; so the team just needed the surprise factor and also a strong poke capable of remove threats like opposing Salamence (Jirachi ties with max. Spd Mence), CM Latias doesn't like this type of Ice Punches so it looses against it, and finally Grass Knot is there for Swampert, which it doesn't OHKO but still inflicts serious damage on it.

Right now I see the team better complemented than before, and also very well supported in the offensive way.
Try the changes out, I am almost sure that they will work extremely well.

Good luck!

EDIT: Looking again at the team, and following the advise of a friend, you could try Dragon Dance Tyranitar in Metagross place:

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Jolly Nature.
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd.
- Dragon Dance
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Fire Punch

Lum Berry is the key and the best item this Tyranitar could have in this team, so that way you can stay on Rotom's Will-o-Wisp and launch a Dragon Dance that will put you in a very comfortable situation.
The Sandstorm doesn't benefit the team at all, but as you are trying to play hyper-offense that doesn't matter too much.
Also T-tar helps with the Rotom issues, as it seems to be hard to eliminate.

Rate My Team [OU]

Felix91

Felix91

The SPrinkLer

Banned deucer.

Kumar628

symphonyx64

Private messages are the best way to reach me

Felix91

iliketurkeybacon

Dormin

Felix91

Setsuna

Prototype